For the movie fans here. I've seen this subject come up for discussion on other boards recently and I still can't get my head around it. Doesn't take away from your enjoyment of the film and maybe there was never a real reason/plot hole overlooked but...

In Back to the Future 2, in the alternate 1985 Doc and Marty couldn't go back to the future and stop old Biff from taking the almanac cause it would be the future of the alternate 1985. So...how does old Biff manage to go back from 1955 to the original 2015 instead of the alt 2015? After all he gave young Biff the book already, right?

"Music is just a release of all that stuff inside that's trying to kill you. I think just — life is so difficult. The thing I love about music is that you can take painful, deep things that hurt, and turn them into something beautiful." ~ Ray LaMontagne

So your point is: when old Biff comes back from 1955 (he gives the almanac to the young one), the future should be already changed...am i right?

  Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best.

does it even go into how old biff in 1955 goes back to the future??? if so than wouldnt it be the alternate 2015 in which he would be a millionaire?? i have the back to the future dvd set and never really thought of this. hmm ill have to watch it again.

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Maybe it's because he is a billionaire in 1985 but Marty manages to beat him, so 2015 is not the alternate future but the right one (Marty is married, has children and he gets fired and stuff...). i'm confused, i will re-watch the movie (LOVE it!!! I have the DVD set, too.)

  Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best.

oh....im stupid. he comes back while they are still in marty's house.....WOW yeah i never thought of that. maybe he would have had to go even further back after giving young biff the almanac. then go back to 2015. therefore creating two different 2015's. time travel is just crazy

So, since I can't figure out how to get my lovely gif to work here, here is the link to my band's myspace page.
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1.21 JIGAWATTS!!!!
 
 
sorry, I just like saying that

Yeah that's a flaw in the movie. It doesen't have many and I would assume they knew it but hoped nobody would notice it. Funny becuase Doc does that whole chalkboard explaination "somewhere in the past the timeline SKEWWWED into this tangent, creating this alternate 1985. Alternate to you, me and Einstein, but reality for eveyone else"... you would think someone would pick up on it (yes I did at 13-years-old, but I pay too close attention to movies), but not alot of people do.

In order to get around this they would have had to change the story so that they didn't destory the time machine at the end of Part 3, bury it again or something and find it in 2015. Something to that effect.

Also, how the fuck does Biff, who is constantly portrayed as a complete idiot, know how to use the time machine? He would have even had to know how to use Mr. Fusion to get back.

On a side note: Hover Boards are real! Watch the making off! I want one! They must be somewhere. I must find them!

Cygnus Alexander Sessa
Born 08.13.08
The great bringer of balance arrives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-gvRteK3A&feature=email

Ok the answer to this is A) this is a fictional story so any answer is fair game.

Here's my take. When Old Biff comes back to 2015 you see him struggle. In a deleted scene he is actually erased. Why is this? Well most likely when Biff becomes a millionair he is likely to be shot or die much younger than old Biff actually is. This shows that there was in fact a skewed 2015. Marty and Doc; however, needed to go back in time in order to retain the continuity of the space time continuum so the time machine was allowed to return, but Biff was not.

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

Yeah but Old Biff shouldn't have been able to go back then. He gives younger the almanac, younger grows rich, murders Marty's dad and changes his life. Marty would never have known Doc or Jennifer. Doc's committed. time machine's never made, no future in which he would bring Marty to save his kids in which Old Biff would be around to notice Doc's machine.  Old Biff never tells younger who he was so younger couldn't have known Doc's idea of a time machine or if he did, developed one using his riches/Doc's papers for Old Biff, I think.  


Oh yeah...on an unrelated note, we did land on the moon.
 

    

"Music is just a release of all that stuff inside that's trying to kill you. I think just — life is so difficult. The thing I love about music is that you can take painful, deep things that hurt, and turn them into something beautiful." ~ Ray LaMontagne

ORIGINAL: Whiskeyjack

Yeah but Old Biff shouldn't have been able to go back then. He gives younger the almanac, younger grows rich, murders Marty's dad and changes his life. Marty would never have known Doc or Jennifer. Doc's committed. time machine's never made, no future in which he would bring Marty to save his kids in which Old Biff would be around to notice Doc's machine.  Old Biff never tells younger who he was so younger couldn't have known Doc's idea of a time machine or if he did, developed one using his riches/Doc's papers for Old Biff, I think.  


Oh yeah...on an unrelated note, we did land on the moon.


   

You are forgetting that there are multiple Martys.

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

"Why don't you make like a tree, and get out of here."  Sorry, just had to say it.

"Plutonians are Teh Suck"

"If you have built castles in the air, your work need not be lost; that is where they should be. Now put foundations under them."

Great Scott!!!

If I can't dazzle you with brilliance, I can baffle you with bullshit.

This is heavy ,Doc.......

A modern day warrior named Tom Sawyer who floated down a river on a raft with a black guy........

ORIGINAL: nepatsfan1

This is heavy ,Doc.......

"There's that word again, heavy. Is there something wrong in the future with the Earth's gravitational pull?"



"Doc! What the hell is a jiggawatt?!?!"

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

ORIGINAL: nepatsfan1

This is heavy ,Doc.......

There's that word again; "heavy". Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?

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ORIGINAL: icepick3383

ORIGINAL: nepatsfan1

This is heavy ,Doc.......

There's that word again; "heavy". Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?

Ack. I beat you to it, but I got the quote wrong. Time to hit the DVD collector's set again.

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

ORIGINAL: renzdrummer

ORIGINAL: icepick3383

ORIGINAL: nepatsfan1

This is heavy ,Doc.......

There's that word again; "heavy". Why are things so heavy in the future? Is there a problem with the earth's gravitational pull?

Ack. I beat you to it, but I got the quote wrong. Time to hit the DVD collector's set again.

tis ok. It's all for the good of BTTF fans everywhere. We knew what you meant.

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The flaw in this movie that brings about the question that was originally posed is that there is only one "real" continuum existing.  However, for the viewer, the movie wouldn't make much sense if Biff time travelled back to give himself the almanac and, at the moment that happened, the movie changed to the alternate 2015.  To the viewer it would seem real choppy and confusing.  However, this would be what would happen because the changes that Old Biff has initated by travelling back in the time maching HAVE ALREADY OCCURED.  Thus, at the moment that Old Biff hits the "time travel" button on the machine, the past is changed and thus the present (at this time according to the viewer, 2015) is changed.

"What the hell is a jiggawatt" indeed?
 
Now, I know about Gigawatts, but jiggawatts?

ORIGINAL: PaulEMoz

"What the hell is a jiggawatt" indeed?

Now, I know about Gigawatts, but jiggawatts?

They are different.

My harddrive has 60 jiggs left. And I have 1 Jigg of memory.

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

ORIGINAL: renzdrummer

ORIGINAL: PaulEMoz

"What the hell is a jiggawatt" indeed?

Now, I know about Gigawatts, but jiggawatts?

They are different.

My harddrive has 60 jiggs left. And I have 1 Jigg of memory.

While those pronunciations are correct, the spellings are not; however, on the internet, one would spell Gigawatt as jiggawatt for added emphasis on pronunciation and humor, as the writers of the BTTF screenplay did.

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

I am your density...

ORIGINAL: fArGuS_CoLliGus

The flaw in this movie that brings about the question that was originally posed is that there is only one "real" continuum existing.  However, for the viewer, the movie wouldn't make much sense if Biff time travelled back to give himself the almanac and, at the moment that happened, the movie changed to the alternate 2015.  To the viewer it would seem real choppy and confusing.  However, this would be what would happen because the changes that Old Biff has initated by travelling back in the time maching HAVE ALREADY OCCURED.  Thus, at the moment that Old Biff hits the "time travel" button on the machine, the past is changed and thus the present (at this time according to the viewer, 2015) is changed.

 
Yes, so it IS a flaw without regard to timeline and Doc's logic for the benefit of the audience/story scripted.

 

"Music is just a release of all that stuff inside that's trying to kill you. I think just — life is so difficult. The thing I love about music is that you can take painful, deep things that hurt, and turn them into something beautiful." ~ Ray LaMontagne

I love how after Marty's first trip to 1955, he came back and everything was changed for the better... except Jennifer. Somehow she got uglier in part 2 .
 
Seriously, you gotta hand it to the filmmakers for recreating that scene at the end of pt. 1 for the beginning of pt.2 almost excatly with the new Jennifer. I mean if they used old footage the matched it perfectly (lighting & such)... and if they shot it all new, man from wardrobe to camera position - very well done.
 
"Welcome to the Cafe 80's, where it's always morning in America, even in the after-no-no-noon."

Cygnus Alexander Sessa
Born 08.13.08
The great bringer of balance arrives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-gvRteK3A&feature=email

Actually what bugs me the most about this movie when they originally go into the future to get Marty's son not to help out Griff.
 
The entire movie they point out that the future isnt written..so that whole thing was pointless.
 
But just like was pointed out, there are a lot of plot holes...and even the producers address this in the commentary...the movie isnt meant to provide a definitive look at time travel.  Its meant as the basis for a fuckin' fun movie...and fun it was.

Man did I have a hard on for Lea Thompson in the first movie. She wanted it bad.   What DID she have in that hope chest. Good thing Marty figured out she was his mom before.   Marty's mom has got it goin' on.   

"Music is just a release of all that stuff inside that's trying to kill you. I think just — life is so difficult. The thing I love about music is that you can take painful, deep things that hurt, and turn them into something beautiful." ~ Ray LaMontagne

What about the fact that Marty and his Mom look at exactly like Marty's great great grandparents on his father's side in part 3? What the hell is that all about?  And not only that, Marty looks exactly like his G G Grandfather and nothing like his father.  And i always wondered about that "having to save the future" thing too.

If I can't dazzle you with brilliance, I can baffle you with bullshit.

ORIGINAL: GhostofCain

What about the fact that Marty and his Mom look at exactly like Marty's great great grandparents on his father's side in part 3? What the hell is that all about?  And not only that, Marty looks exactly like his G G Grandfather and nothing like his father.  And i always wondered about that "having to save the future" thing too.

Well his great great grandfather looks like Marty probably for the same reason his son and daughter look like him. They are all played by Michael J. Fox and they are all on the same side of the family. The only reason Lea Thompson was used as Marty's grea great grandmother was because the director wanted to include her and there were no scenes with his mother in that movie.

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

um ok...that makes alot of sese then

If I can't dazzle you with brilliance, I can baffle you with bullshit.

ORIGINAL: renzdrummer

ORIGINAL: GhostofCain

What about the fact that Marty and his Mom look at exactly like Marty's great great grandparents on his father's side in part 3? What the hell is that all about?  And not only that, Marty looks exactly like his G G Grandfather and nothing like his father.  And i always wondered about that "having to save the future" thing too.

Well his great great grandfather looks like Marty probably for the same reason his son and daughter look like him. They are all played by Michael J. Fox and they are all on the same side of the family. The only reason Lea Thompson was used as Marty's grea great grandmother was because the director wanted to include her and there were no scenes with his mother in that movie.

 
Or how come his parents never said (in 1985)..."Hey remember that guy who got us together when we were in High School. I know we named Marty after him but DAMN WOMAN he looks just like him!!!"

Cygnus Alexander Sessa
Born 08.13.08
The great bringer of balance arrives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-gvRteK3A&feature=email

im sure renzdrummer will have a techincal answer for that

If I can't dazzle you with brilliance, I can baffle you with bullshit.

Suspension of disbelief...

What I dont understand is why biff had no problem meeting young biff. The doc said that it was dangerous that it could destroy the world or just make them both faint.

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ORIGINAL: Lomox

ORIGINAL: renzdrummer

ORIGINAL: GhostofCain

What about the fact that Marty and his Mom look at exactly like Marty's great great grandparents on his father's side in part 3? What the hell is that all about?  And not only that, Marty looks exactly like his G G Grandfather and nothing like his father.  And i always wondered about that "having to save the future" thing too.

Well his great great grandfather looks like Marty probably for the same reason his son and daughter look like him. They are all played by Michael J. Fox and they are all on the same side of the family. The only reason Lea Thompson was used as Marty's grea great grandmother was because the director wanted to include her and there were no scenes with his mother in that movie.

Or how come his parents never said (in 1985)..."Hey remember that guy who got us together when we were in High School. I know we named Marty after him but DAMN WOMAN he looks just like him!!!"

Honestly do you think they would remember what he looked like? It happened over 20 years before, and they have no pictures of him. Do any of you remember exactly how someone looked 20 years ago that you knew for less than a week? They also watched Marty grow, so any memory they have of the old Marty would have been overshadowed by the growth of the new Marty. They would most likely not remember what the old Marty looked like.

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

ORIGINAL: Mike_Petrucci

What I dont understand is why biff had no problem meeting young biff. The doc said that it was dangerous that it could destroy the world or just make them both faint.

Well young Biff had no idea it was old Biff since it was an older self visiting a younger self (with no knowledge of the future). When Jennifer met Jennifer, it was a younger Jennifer (with knowledge of the future) meeting an older Jennifer (with knowledge of the meeting) which results in the fainting (or possible unraveling of the entire universe!. Old Biff was also prepared to meet young Biff as it was on his agenda.

The Jens meet by complete accident and it is so sudden that it causes them to faint. They are also closer in an age gap than old biff and young biff are, making them more recognizable to each other.

"Sorry Venkman, I’m terrified beyond rational thought."

PRECISELY!

So, since I can't figure out how to get my lovely gif to work here, here is the link to my band's myspace page.
www.myspace.com/ideospheremusic GET THE NEW ALBUM FOR FREE HERE: www.ideosphere.bandcamp.com

Also do we really think Biff would have been such a goober after simply being punched by George M? Come on now.  What about the fact that Doc and Principal Skinner bairly aged in the 30 year gap between 1955 and 1985? 

If I can't dazzle you with brilliance, I can baffle you with bullshit.

ORIGINAL: renzdrummer

ORIGINAL: Lomox

ORIGINAL: renzdrummer

ORIGINAL: GhostofCain

What about the fact that Marty and his Mom look at exactly like Marty's great great grandparents on his father's side in part 3? What the hell is that all about?  And not only that, Marty looks exactly like his G G Grandfather and nothing like his father.  And i always wondered about that "having to save the future" thing too.

Well his great great grandfather looks like Marty probably for the same reason his son and daughter look like him. They are all played by Michael J. Fox and they are all on the same side of the family. The only reason Lea Thompson was used as Marty's grea great grandmother was because the director wanted to include her and there were no scenes with his mother in that movie.

Or how come his parents never said (in 1985)..."Hey remember that guy who got us together when we were in High School. I know we named Marty after him but DAMN WOMAN he looks just like him!!!"

Honestly do you think they would remember what he looked like? It happened over 20 years before, and they have no pictures of him. Do any of you remember exactly how someone looked 20 years ago that you knew for less than a week? They also watched Marty grow, so any memory they have of the old Marty would have been overshadowed by the growth of the new Marty. They would most likely not remember what the old Marty looked like.

 
Nope. Someone that integral, they would remember. Especially since his mom remembers every moment of the "Fish Under The Sea Dance" . I remember what my friends from 1985 look like and one I only knew for a month. Hehehehe... ahhhhh fun with fiction.
 
Old Biff is able to meet young Biff, cus at the time Biff is too much of a maroon to understand what's going on, hence the space time continum is safe. Together they make like one whole brain. Remeber Doc says, when referring to Jennifer "The realization of encountering her older self could... then again she could simply pass out".
 
 
"Nah it ain't homework.. cus.. he... I ain't at home"

Cygnus Alexander Sessa
Born 08.13.08
The great bringer of balance arrives.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jp-gvRteK3A&feature=email

Some people will continue look the same, ie Dick Clark.

renzdrummer is this your favorite movie(s) of all? If not, what is? 

"Music is just a release of all that stuff inside that's trying to kill you. I think just — life is so difficult. The thing I love about music is that you can take painful, deep things that hurt, and turn them into something beautiful." ~ Ray LaMontagne