What happened to freeway etiquette?

Thanks for the lesson. You obviously don't travel on the thruway during rush hour every day. So until you do, don't come in here and tell me the rules of that road.

DT2003

Bails


Another question:

Do you not see this someone "flying up" behind you in your mirror, or do they suddenly appear without notice?

What, exactly, are you looking to accomplish by not letting this idiot get by?

And no, I'm not excusing the idiot's impatient behavior.  I just don't see what you're contributing to the situation by not acquiescing here.

Of course I see them "flying up" behind me, but they also see me going the speed I'm going.  If someone is walking on a sidewalk and someone else comes running up behind them, do you expect the person who is walking to get out of the other guys way or should the guy running move out of the way so he doesn't run into the guy who's walking?  It's really a very similar situation.  And I'm not looking to accomplish anything, but again why should I have to move out of the lane I am when I am driving the same as everyone else in that lane b/c this guy feels the need to drive faster than everyone else?  I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but I refuse to let some guy (who figures he can just do what he wants and people will get out of his way) dictate how I drive. 

I think people just miss the point of what the passing lane is for. It's not just etiquette, it's the law (in most states).

DT2003


Thanks for the lesson. You obviously don't travel on the thruway during rush hour every day. So until you do, don't come in here and tell me the rules of that road.

I'm going to assume you get caught in a cluster fuck every day. at that point, no one is really going anywhere quickly, so who cares?

Not a cluster fuck but it's steady traffic. It's three lanes and the left and right are always packed and the middle lane is usually much more open than the others. The faster traffic is in the left lane and the slower traffic in the right lane. I guess that's why I am so used to driving in the left lane.

DT2003


Not a cluster fuck but it's steady traffic. It's three lanes and the left and right are always packed and the middle lane is usually much more open than the others. The faster traffic is in the left lane and the slower traffic in the right lane. I guess that's why I am so used to driving in the left lane.

 
Yeah in a case like that it would be very chaotic for everyone to be switching lanes constantly, or unrealistically leaving the left lane wide open for people that are in a rush.

Stadler

crazy climber dude


No sarcasm here.....I mean this sincerely. I'm going to lay down a challenge for all of you who typically want to go fast. Try being me once (I know that means you might have to change your cool ways and be an asshat for awhile, but humor me). Drive on the freeway when it's busy......not rush hour necessarily.....but busy enough to where there's a degree of congestion. Go the speed limit. Move over to the right whenever someone wants to go much faster than you. Resist the temptation to revert back to your original tact of wanting to go as fast as you want in the left lane. Then, when you're all done.....come back and tell me how many times you got frustrated because you were trying to do everything right, but couldn't actually go the speed limit because the left lane was too fast and the right lane was too slow. Go.

Dude, I swear to god (and my ewife, who yells at me "why are you changing lanes all the time!!" ) as my witness.  I just finished a work tour where I was driving about 500 miles a week (up on Sunday, back on Friday), mostly on the interstate.  I did that fo3 to 4 weeks a month for 13 months, give or take.  I didn't get one ticket for speeding, though I rarely traveled the 65 posted limit (meaning I was not slave to sign, but not careless or reckless either).  And if someone came up behind me, I moved the f--- over.  Was it "optimally convenient" for me?  No.  But I'm one person out of the thousands of people that use that freeway (I-80 in PA).  The "law" part of it is a red herring, because I am not limiting this to instances where I am only traveling over the speed limt, and I would counter that given the choice of being safer or slavishly following a street sign, safety will win every time (trying driving the exact speed limit in a blizzard and see if you still get cited if there is an accident. You will).  I encounter selfish arrogant people in the left lane doing BELOW the limit who still give attitude and/or the finger when respectfully asked to move over.  And it is respectful; my brother is a traffic cop and I hear all the road rage stories I need to to undersatnd that I can't act however I want on the roadway anymore.  So I try to give warning in advance, I try not to tailgate, and try not to intimidate or scare other drivers into doing something stupid or rash.  I'm no more perfect than the next person, stuff happens, but it sounds like I am a shit-load more respectful of others on the road.

Your behavior is limiting my behavior, but my behavior isn't limiting yours (there might be other factors limiting you, but it isn't me).  It's that simple.  And whenever I encounter someone who is willing (and actually actively endeavoring) to exert their will over mine when there is an alternative that accomodates both of us reasonably, I have a problem with that.  It IS arrogance, and it IS selfishness.  You are putting your comfort over mine, at the risk of both of our safety, and where an alternative exists that we can BOTH be satisfied.  It is a documented fact (again, I point to the book "Traffic" as a source, I can find the author if you need it) that shows SPEED doesn't kill as often as VARIANCE in speed kills.  In other words, the lone driver going in excess of the speed limit is safer than the driver going in excess of the speed limit in and among slower drivers (even if neither are truly "safe"). 

  Well, I think you're wrong. So we have an irreconcilable difference. But in the hopes of a better understanding to perhaps alleviate the impasse, I want to make a distinction here where I understand exactly what the conditions are:
 
We are referring to a 4 lane highway with two lanes going opposite directions, right?  And I at least am referring to high volume traffic (which is usually the case) where there is little space between each car to begin with......but that the cars are at least moving. That is a very typical scenario, but I think it's important to clarify WHEN exactly I am talking about the times where I do what you think is selfish and arrogant. If there is a middle lane.....or the traffic is not that congested I COMPLETELY agree with your assessment.
 
So if we can agree on those specific conditions, I would ask that you please read this carefully (I know it's long, but the devil is in the details as it were) and try to refrain from an emotional reaction if you can. I can't absolutely promise I won't write something that might invoke that reaction regardless.....but I will try my best:
 
You want to go faster than I am going and I'm going the speed limit, right? You feel like regardless of speeds the principal of moving over (or "etiquette" as it has been referred) is universal. I want to go the speed limit so I am in the left lane so I can stay as close to that as possible. I don't want to keep going around people that keep going way below the speed limit every time you get in the right lane because then I can't be as you stated "satisfied". This might not happen where you live, but it must be regional because it happens here all the time.....invariably you WILL get stuck behind someone who is going too slow.....just as invariably it seems you happen upon drivers who are going too slow for you. Now, if the left lane wasn't just as loaded with drivers wanting to go well over the speed limit OR there was enough of a gap to anticipate the slower car ahead and go around and back into the right lane before the cars in the left lane are an issue, I could do that. I would do that. But as it is because of the conditions we described, there is virtually no chance of that. I don't have a souped up car that has mega horsepower......I have a six cylinder Jeep. Follow? Now, if I put the blinker on and hope that someone that is speeding will slow down enough to let me in the left lane, I might be waiting a LONG time because those who are flying by in the left lane don't want someone pulling in front of them to slow down all that momentum they have gained. Right?
 
Now, of course you think it's reasonable because you get to do what you want if I get over. But then I am stuck behind the slow guy again and I just want to go the speed limit. That's not reasonable to me. And I think I should be able to go the speed limit more than you should be able to go over it.....and I think that "principal" overrides your etiquette issue of getting over. It's not about "sticking it to the man" or arrogance per se (at least not any more than the arrogance of expecting someone to move over)......it's about wanting to go the legal speed limit unencumbered. Now, if I am NOT going the speed limit.....then you have a rock solid point. That's the determining factor for me......whether you agree or not. So then, the once again....overriding....question is: Why should your time be more valuable than mine? Let me ask that again with all respect.....why, in that scenario, should your time be more valuable than mine? I want to get somewhere in what I consider a reasonable amount of time and the only way I feel I can get there is to take the left lane IN THAT SCENARIO. You want to get somewhere in what you feel is a reasonable amount of time. Why is that any different? How can we BOTH be "satisfied" if I have to get over for you, but in the process I have to get stuck behind someone who is going way under the speed limit? To me, part of the difference is that I am abiding the speed limit. You can disagree with the reasoning and cite all the viewpoints about whether speeding is dangerous, but someone in a higher position of authority over such matters than us thinks it is and that's why it exists.
 
Conversely, the get over to the right lane law was intended to allow drivers who want to go past slower drivers who are going UNDER the speed limit......and it presumes that the driver that does pass is STILL going the speed limit. You may not agree with that or think that's not practical....okay. I agree. But theoretically at least, you wouldn't pass a law to help facilitate breaking another one.....AND here's why even if not practical it's still important:
 
-  There is going to be variances in speed regardless of who is the left lane. Not everyone is going to go 80 (presuming a 75 mph limit). Or not everyone is going to go 90. So, the consequence of that variability is precisely what was suggested.....if someone pulls out in front of someone in the left lane from the right lane (doing what he's supposed to do by staying in the right lane except to pass) then the guy going 90 (who may have been very far back when the guy in right lane pulls out) is going to slow down to the slower speed as soon as the guy passing pulls into the left lane or they will run right into them. So what going 90 guy might perceive as someone not getting over is actually someone trying to pass correctly. That starts a domino effect of braking that actually triggers traffic jams.....and creates this constant state of flux where changing speeds are actually more the order of the day. So where is this delusion espoused here in this thread that everyone who is merrily cruising down the left lane is going to go the same speed if everyone just gets out of their way? But in this case the speed differences are even more dangerous because you have someone going faster than they be able (or their car may be able) to react.
 
- Car spacing. Very few people do it correctly.....hardly anyone actually gives a full car length for every 10mph. And the faster you go the more it's relevant. And the more traffic there is the more difficult it becomes. The freeway is then relegated to a NASCAR like mass of vehicles with not enough time to brake if there is something happens in front of them. And the more people change lanes to get around someone the problem is exacerbated.
 
Actually, I was wrong. There is a solution. You can go to Montana (they don't call it Big Sky for nothing) and not experience anything like what we're talking about while driving....OR.....you can just sell your vehicle up there and buy a ranch and ride a horse. Horses can be asshats, but it's rare.
 
 
 
 
 

GhostofCain


 
 
The left lane is not for traveling, it's for passing.

 
It's supposed to be, but here's what sometimes happens. Someone who wants to speed actually STAYS in the left lane because they use the rationale that as long as they are passing someone they don't have to get over to the right. Oh wait, but what happens if the guy who goes 90 has someone on their tail who wants to go 100.....and then what about the guy who wants to go faster than that, etc., etc. They essentially are using speeding as a reasoning process to be able to get to use the left lane as they please and it has the insidious effect of a competition for who goes the fastest to justify their "right" to it.

Truck drivers are typically over-tired, under-paid, and annoyed by others who thunk they own the road. You rarely notice the great truck drivers because they like to drive at night when they have a clearer road.

 

crazy climber dude

 



Actually, I was wrong. There is a solution. You can go to Montana (they don't call it Big Sky for nothing) and not experience anything like what we're talking about while driving....OR.....you can just sell your vehicle up there and buy a ranch and ride a horse. Horses can be asshats, but it's rare.

Sorry if this didn't make any sense. I pasted my (hopefully somewhat less emotionally charged) rant and left out a section before this part. I was thinking about solutions, and I wondered if on a freeway if having a minimum speed (say 15mph under the speed limit) regardless of lane might help. But then I thought......would that be enforced any more than the right lane law or the maximum speed? That's why every problem doesn't always have a solution. Just mitigations. Mass transit and more lanes certainly help some, but are still just mitigations.

drunkmule


Truck drivers are typically over-tired, under-paid, and annoyed by others who thunk they own the road. You rarely notice the great truck drivers because they like to drive at night when they have a clearer road.

Well, that's the other mitigation/solution. If I don't have a specific reason to be somewhere at a certain time.....and I'm just traveling across the country (like for the photography trips I take), I almost always travel at night. The trucks are usually the only ones out....at least on weekdays.

DT2003

why should I have to move out of the lane I am when I am driving the same as everyone else in that lane b/c this guy feels the need to drive faster than everyone else?  I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but I refuse to let some guy (who figures he can just do what he wants and people will get out of his way) dictate how I drive. 

 
It's like you haven't read a single word in the entire thread.
 
Why should you give up your seat on a bus for a pregnant woman?
Why should you use a turn signal before using a turn?
Why should you turn your cell phone off while attending a theater?
 
FUCK 'EM ALL!  I'M MORE IMPORTANT!!!!  NO ONE'S GOING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO!
 
C'mon, man.  You're better than that.

^^^
Sigh...some people, like dt2003, are just more comfortable in the left lane. They just refuse to admit it. They cannot explain why, when there's nobody else out there, they MUST drive there

crazy climber dude

GhostofCain




The left lane is not for traveling, it's for passing.

It's supposed to be, but here's what sometimes happens. Someone who wants to speed actually STAYS in the left lane because they use the rationale that as long as they are passing someone they don't have to get over to the right. Oh wait, but what happens if the guy who goes 90 has someone on their tail who wants to go 100.....and then what about the guy who wants to go faster than that, etc., etc. They essentially are using speeding as a reasoning process to be able to get to use the left lane as they please and it has the insidious effect of a competition for who goes the fastest to justify their "right" to it.

I don't understand how this is relevant.
 
If you're going 90, and someone behind you is going 100, move over.
 
If you're going 100, and someone behind you is going 110, move over.
 
It's really very, very simple. I can't even believe we've wasted 3 pages of MP.com forum bandwidth discussing it.  I can't think of anything more basic.

Bails

Why should you give up your seat on a bus for a pregnant woman?

 
Who rides the bus?
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Spunky

Bails

Why should you give up your seat on a bus for a pregnant woman?

Who rides the bus?

 
MP does, tour bus that is, but he probably doesn't have to give up his seat for anyone.

colin007


^^^
Sigh...some people, like dt2003, are just more comfortable in the left lane. They just refuse to admit it. They cannot explain why, when there's nobody else out there, they MUST drive there

You obviously didn't read my response to you because I said that when there's nobody else around me, I don't drive in the left lane. I drive in the left lane to/from work because that is the lane the flow of traffic is in, plain and sImple. It has nothing to do with being more comfortable as I'm comfortable no matter what lane I'm in.

Bails

It's like you haven't read a single word in the entire thread.

 
I've read plenty of this thread.  I just have a different opinion of freeway etiquette than some others
 

Bails

Why should you give up your seat on a bus for a pregnant woman?
Why should you use a turn signal before using a turn?
Why should you turn your cell phone off while attending a theater?

I should do all of these things b/c it's the right thing to do and there is absolutely NO debating that as those are much more cut and dry than what we are talking about
 

Bails

FUCK 'EM ALL!  I'M MORE IMPORTANT!!!!  NO ONE'S GOING TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO!

I certainly do not have a "FUCK 'EM ALL" attitude at all and I absolutely do not feel that I'm more important than anyone else.  Quite the opposite actually as I cannot stand when people feel that way that they are more important than someone else, no matter who they are.  I just don't feel that I should have to move out of the way for someone who feels the need to be driving much faster than everyone else. 
 
Based on the reaction of many in this thread, maybe it isn't proper etiquette for me to not move in that situation.  I certainly don't 'do it to be a dick or to be inconsiderate as I'm the first one to get furious when I do see people being inconsiderate.  But I guess I just don't see it being inconsiderate to feel that I shouldn't have to alter my driving b/c someone else expects me to get out of their way when I'm already going over the speed limit. 

I think the point of the last couple dozen posts is that there are major differences in driving in rush hour and on the open road. Rush hour congestion forces a different strategy than open road driving, plain and simple. I think we are all saying the same thing for the most part. Also, as DT2003 states and I'm guessing most of us have experienced at some point, sometimes specific regions or roads have slightly different norms for highway driving.
 
Can't we all just drive along?

DT2003

Stadler

DT2003



Are you talking about if someone flies up on me when I'm going 80-85 and there's nobody in the right lane?  Yes you're damn right that I stay in the left lane.  If I'm traveling 80-85, I should not have to get out of the left lane.

Why?  That's dick-like.  I'm not calling you that, but that behavior is.  What is this obsession people have with controlling others???  I do not understand it, for the life of me. 

 

Please explain to me how it is dick-like to be moving with the flow of traffic and say that I'm not going to alter my driving by switching lanes so that someone who is driving at wreckless speeds doesn't have to alter their's.  Sorry but you are wrong.  The asshole who's driving 90+ and expects everyone to get out of his way is the one who is dick-like.  The guy expects everyone to get out of his way yet the person (me) who is driving WITH the flow of traffic is the one who is trying to control others.  Unreal!!!

I'm not limiting it to the "asshole who's driving 90+".  I'm talking about ANYONE who is even a MPH faster than you.  And yes, as long as there are cars behind you that would be moving faster than you - forget about the "number" - then yes, you are trying to control others.  It is common courtesy, in all walks of life, be it driving, supermarket, concerts, wherever, to conduct your business in a manner that is a balance between achieving your goals and restricting others from reaching theirs.  This isn't difficult.  It's part of the social contract.  It's the very reason things like contracts have evolved.  All of society is based on this principle in one form or another.  As long as anyone is basing their actions on the premise of "Fuck them, I'm not [whatever the action is]" that goes against the premise.  That attitude is no different than the people in the cross walk that slow down while you're waiting to turn, or the person that vandalizes something so others can't enjoy them.  
 

Well said Stadler. Completely agree with you. I would add that for some it is blatant disregard of the social contract and for many others it is a complete lack of self awareness: You mean that there are others around me, and they have goals too? And what I do affects them?
 
Not applying that to anyone in this thread, just a general societal comment.

DT2003


If someone is in the left lane going slow than I am, I go around them!

 
Also illegal in some jurisdictions (passing on the right).
 

Here is the situation I'm talking about...  As I mentioned, traffic in the left lane flows at 80-85 while I'm on the thruway.  It's pretty much known that cops won't bother you if you are going that speed as there are A LOT of people who drive much faster than that on that road.  So I'm talking about when I'm in the left lane (with a ton of other cars going 80-85) and someone flies up and gets right on my ass (and sometimes they even flash their bright lights) expecting me to get over b/c 80-85 is not fast enough for them.  So I'm exhibiting "dick-like" behavior b/c I don't want to have to move out of the lane I'm in when I am driving with the flow of traffic and this guy isn't?  Sorry but I disagree.  I think this guy is the one presenting dick-behavior b/c he is driving faster than everyone else yet he expects everyone to move for him.

Yes.  Yes you are.  You keep caveating the scenario with specific numbers and miles per hour... it's all a red herring.  Bottom line is, unless you're a police officer, it's not your problem.  For every caveat you put in, I can put one in as well that makes you wrong.  Do you know for a fact they are not rushing to the hospital to be there before their close friend passes?  Or they got a call that their child is injured?  Or some other reasonable excuse that might mitigate their behavior?   Even the "flow of traffic" argument is nonsense, because in a perfect scenario, they should ALL be over, because NONE of them are passing.  But no, you are entitled to be judge, jury and executioner and say F U, stay behind me because I, as Grand Poobah of the Highway, have deemed your speed "TOO FAST".  Please. 

It's a simple rule:  if you are the slower car, move over.  Period.

DT2003
 

  I'm not trying to piss anyone off, but I refuse to let some guy (who figures he can just do what he wants and people will get out of his way) dictate how I drive. 

Anyone else feeling the irony here? 

Stadler


I'm not limiting it to the "asshole who's driving 90+".  I'm talking about ANYONE who is even a MPH faster than you.  And yes, as long as there are cars behind you that would be moving faster than you - forget about the "number" - then yes, you are trying to control others.  It is common courtesy, in all walks of life, be it driving, supermarket, concerts, wherever, to conduct your business in a manner that is a balance between achieving your goals and restricting others from reaching theirs.  This isn't difficult.  It's part of the social contract.  It's the very reason things like contracts have evolved.  All of society is based on this principle in one form or another.  As long as anyone is basing their actions on the premise of "Fuck them, I'm not [whatever the action is]" that goes against the premise.  That attitude is no different than the people in the cross walk that slow down while you're waiting to turn, or the person that vandalizes something so others can't enjoy them.  

Pretty much what I was trying to say last night, but anger got the best of me.  Well said, Stadler.
 
Apologies for my tone in the last couple posts, DT2003.

crazy climber dude


We are referring to a 4 lane highway with two lanes going opposite directions, right?  And I at least am referring to high volume traffic (which is usually the case) where there is little space between each car to begin with......but that the cars are at least moving. That is a very typical scenario, but I think it's important to clarify WHEN exactly I am talking about the times where I do what you think is selfish and arrogant. If there is a middle lane.....or the traffic is not that congested I COMPLETELY agree with your assessment.

So if we can agree on those specific conditions, I would ask that you please read this carefully (I know it's long, but the devil is in the details as it were) and try to refrain from an emotional reaction if you can. I can't absolutely promise I won't write something that might invoke that reaction regardless.....but I will try my best:

You want to go faster than I am going and I'm going the speed limit, right? You feel like regardless of speeds the principal of moving over (or "etiquette" as it has been referred) is universal. I want to go the speed limit so I am in the left lane so I can stay as close to that as possible. I don't want to keep going around people that keep going way below the speed limit every time you get in the right lane because then I can't be as you stated "satisfied". This might not happen where you live, but it must be regional because it happens here all the time.....invariably you WILL get stuck behind someone who is going too slow.....just as invariably it seems you happen upon drivers who are going too slow for you. Now, if the left lane wasn't just as loaded with drivers wanting to go well over the speed limit OR there was enough of a gap to anticipate the slower car ahead and go around and back into the right lane before the cars in the left lane are an issue, I could do that. I would do that. But as it is because of the conditions we described, there is virtually no chance of that. I don't have a souped up car that has mega horsepower......I have a six cylinder Jeep. Follow? Now, if I put the blinker on and hope that someone that is speeding will slow down enough to let me in the left lane, I might be waiting a LONG time because those who are flying by in the left lane don't want someone pulling in front of them to slow down all that momentum they have gained. Right?

Now, of course you think it's reasonable because you get to do what you want if I get over. But then I am stuck behind the slow guy again and I just want to go the speed limit. That's not reasonable to me. And I think I should be able to go the speed limit more than you should be able to go over it.....and I think that "principal" overrides your etiquette issue of getting over. It's not about "sticking it to the man" or arrogance per se (at least not any more than the arrogance of expecting someone to move over)......it's about wanting to go the legal speed limit unencumbered. Now, if I am NOT going the speed limit.....then you have a rock solid point. That's the determining factor for me......whether you agree or not. So then, the once again....overriding....question is: Why should your time be more valuable than mine? Let me ask that again with all respect.....why, in that scenario, should your time be more valuable than mine? I want to get somewhere in what I consider a reasonable amount of time and the only way I feel I can get there is to take the left lane IN THAT SCENARIO. You want to get somewhere in what you feel is a reasonable amount of time. Why is that any different? How can we BOTH be "satisfied" if I have to get over for you, but in the process I have to get stuck behind someone who is going way under the speed limit? To me, part of the difference is that I am abiding the speed limit. You can disagree with the reasoning and cite all the viewpoints about whether speeding is dangerous, but someone in a higher position of authority over such matters than us thinks it is and that's why it exists.

Conversely, the get over to the right lane law was intended to allow drivers who want to go past slower drivers who are going UNDER the speed limit......and it presumes that the driver that does pass is STILL going the speed limit. You may not agree with that or think that's not practical....okay. I agree. But theoretically at least, you wouldn't pass a law to help facilitate breaking another one.....AND here's why even if not practical it's still important:

-  There is going to be variances in speed regardless of who is the left lane. Not everyone is going to go 80 (presuming a 75 mph limit). Or not everyone is going to go 90. So, the consequence of that variability is precisely what was suggested.....if someone pulls out in front of someone in the left lane from the right lane (doing what he's supposed to do by staying in the right lane except to pass) then the guy going 90 (who may have been very far back when the guy in right lane pulls out) is going to slow down to the slower speed as soon as the guy passing pulls into the left lane or they will run right into them. So what going 90 guy might perceive as someone not getting over is actually someone trying to pass correctly. That starts a domino effect of braking that actually triggers traffic jams.....and creates this constant state of flux where changing speeds are actually more the order of the day. So where is this delusion espoused here in this thread that everyone who is merrily cruising down the left lane is going to go the same speed if everyone just gets out of their way? But in this case the speed differences are even more dangerous because you have someone going faster than they be able (or their car may be able) to react.

- Car spacing. Very few people do it correctly.....hardly anyone actually gives a full car length for every 10mph. And the faster you go the more it's relevant. And the more traffic there is the more difficult it becomes. The freeway is then relegated to a NASCAR like mass of vehicles with not enough time to brake if there is something happens in front of them. And the more people change lanes to get around someone the problem is exacerbated.

Actually, I was wrong. There is a solution. You can go to Montana (they don't call it Big Sky for nothing) and not experience anything like what we're talking about while driving....OR.....you can just sell your vehicle up there and buy a ranch and ride a horse. Horses can be asshats, but it's rare.

Look, as I said before to DTD, we can posit scenarios all day long.  And I'll be honest, to some degree I'm over-generalizing.  Of course there are always going to be scenarios where both parties are forced to compromise.  For the record, I've lived in Burbank (for a year back in the early 90's), Atlanta (for five years in the early 2000's) and Philly (now), all well-known for their traffic problems.  The rest of my life has been pretty much Connecticut, well-known for the Merritt Parkway, a beautiful death-trap of a highway, built way back in the 20's when top speeds on cars was somewhere around 30 mph.  So I understand the situation.  I am not suggesting that in rush hour traffic we keep a lane open for asshats that think they are Danika Patrick.  And I am not suggesting that you have to change lanes 1000 times a mile (though I tend to not mind the lane changes).  I'm more than willing to wait for a safe opportunity for you to do the right thing.  I get it.   But - and I am probably talking more to DT2000 than you here, honestly - it is less about the scenario than it is the response, because the scenario I keep hearing about ("I want to drive the speed limit, and asshats are going 85 not letting me") has it's own problems.  If the left lane is a constant parade of 90 MPH drivers, and the right lane is a constant parade of 50 MPH drivers, there is a much much bigger problem than you and me dancing around whether I should be able to pass. 

So to keep this civil (because I actually like both of you, your poor driving skills notwithstanding :) ), why don't we bail on the notion of specific scenarios that might tilt to our position, and leave it at this:  we ALL have to do a little more thinking about the driver in the other car rather than our own situation.  Maybe you need to be more cognizant of the car coming up behind you fast and get over before it gets to the situation we're talking abuot, and maybe I need to be more cognizant that when I do zoom up behind you, I am possibly putting you in an untenable position.  Beacuse isn't that what etiquette really is?  Thinking about others when making decisions for yourself?
 
 
 

crazy climber dude

GhostofCain




The left lane is not for traveling, it's for passing.

It's supposed to be, but here's what sometimes happens. Someone who wants to speed actually STAYS in the left lane because they use the rationale that as long as they are passing someone they don't have to get over to the right. Oh wait, but what happens if the guy who goes 90 has someone on their tail who wants to go 100.....and then what about the guy who wants to go faster than that, etc., etc. They essentially are using speeding as a reasoning process to be able to get to use the left lane as they please and it has the insidious effect of a competition for who goes the fastest to justify their "right" to it.

For the record, I fully agree that that person should move over too, if they are not passing (and I do endeavor to do that when I drive), but you're forgetting that there is ultimately a limit (literal and figurative) at which time other factors will control.  Just not your driving speed. 

crazy climber dude


Sorry if this didn't make any sense. I pasted my (hopefully somewhat less emotionally charged) rant and left out a section before this part. I was thinking about solutions, and I wondered if on a freeway if having a minimum speed (say 15mph under the speed limit) regardless of lane might help. But then I thought......would that be enforced any more than the right lane law or the maximum speed? That's why every problem doesn't always have a solution. Just mitigations. Mass transit and more lanes certainly help some, but are still just mitigations.

Actually, interstate highways do have a minimum speed, usually 40 mph.  I don't necessarily get how that makes the situation better, but it does exist.  For the record, I asked, and my brother has never cited someone for driving below the minimum (though has used that as a rationale for pulling them over). 

on a somewhat related note, fuck the asshat broad driving in the convertible BMW with the friggin' poodle on her lap.
 
I get you like big furry things between your legs...but really?
 
Maybe you should, oh I dunno, pay attention to the road?  I know.  Novel concept.

Nice call Spunky.  Now THAT'S something to facepalm:  the people who believe that the driver's seat in a moving, 3,000 lb. vehicle is the proper place to shave, brush your teeth, apply makeup, eat, talk on the phone, god knows what else...

Stadler

DT2003


If someone is in the left lane going slow than I am, I go around them!

Also illegal in some jurisdictions (passing on the right).

 
Not when you are talking about a 3 lane highway like I am.  I find it funny though how you basically call me a dick for not feeling I should have to get out of the way on a busy road for someone going faster than I am (when I'm already traveling 80-85) yet when I state how I go around someone to avoid making them move out of the left lane if I want to go faster than them, you then say it's illegal, which again isn't the case on the road I travel on.  So basically I guess in your eyes I'm a dick no matter what I do.
 
Anyhow, I'm done discussing this b/c we are going in circles.  Unless you drove on the road I'm talking about during rush hour every day for the past 15 years like I have, you don't realize what the normal conditions of that road are.
 
 

[QUOTE:Stadler]
Nice call Spunky.  Now THAT'S something to facepalm:  the people who believe that the driver's seat in a moving, 3,000 lb. vehicle is the proper place to shave, brush your teeth, apply makeup, eat, talk on the phone, god knows what else...

[\QUOTE]
 
Something we can actually agree on.  It amazes me how many people still talk on their cell phone while driving.  And at least a couple of times a week I see someone putting on makeup while they are going highway speeds.  Even if someone is that stupid inconsiderate of others to do something like that, don't the worry that if they happen to get into an accident, there's a good chance they'll lose an eye?  Not to mention the danger it puts other drivers in.

DT2003:  Quote isn't working now for me, so I am replying to your post 107.
 
To be clear, and so we don't leave this with a bad taste in our mouths, I'm not and never did call you a dick.  If it seemed that way, I apologize.  I was commenting on the behavior, whether it's you or someone else.  So peace, on that point.
 
As for the passing on the right, it is illegal, except in specific cases (usually, as in New York, only when the car you are passing is making a left turn and you can pass on the right without leaving the roadway, or when you are on a one-way road of at least two lanes and there are no signs prohibiting the passing); my point there wasn't to call you a dick, but to ask how is that any better?  Why are you willing to change lanes to pass the slow driver on the (more dangerous, often illegal) right , but aren't willing to change lanes to allow the fast driver to pass you on the (safer and always legal) left?  Why is the less safe, possibly illegal move more preferable than the safer, usually legal other?
 
I'm just trying to understand.   

Definitely peace on that point and sorry that I misinterpreted you with that.  I apologize for getting so fired up about this.
 
Anyhow, I had always assumed that it wasn't illegal to pass in the middle lane, but like I said it's just an assumption so you are probably correct on that as I'm sure you know much more than I do what the actual laws are.  In regards to the second part of your post, I guess you are right that it isn't necessarily "safer" to do what I do, and I guess I should take that into consideration in the future.  My feeling has always been that if someone is driving differently than others (whether it be someone coming up behind me or me coming up on someone else) than that person who is driving differently/faster should be the one to alter there driving.  I guess b/c I know that if I'm driving faster than someone in the left lane, IMO it would be rude of me to expect them to move for me which is why I go in the middle lane to go around them.  That's also why I expect them to do the same in the reverse situation.  Which was the point I was trying to make that I'm not trying to be a dick or control other people, but I guess I could see how it comes off that way.
 
Apologies to Bails and GhostofCain as well for some of my posts yesterday.  When I get aggravated sometimes I post before I think things through.
 

The thing that people seem to forget (at least here in Florida) is that, first and foremost, the left lane is an emergency lane. It is to stay clear for the po-po and ambulance. It is a passing lane second; not a travel lane. However, trying to get that through the head of an 87 year old powder puff who can't see over her steering wheel is a no win situation. Here in Jacksonville, they have actually started an initiative to reduce that by ticketing left laners. Ain't nothing worse than trying to get to work in the morning and elephant racing a left laner while trying to pass the inconsiderate ass in front of you doing 8 miles under the speed limit.

perfect example last night.  it was 9:30, roads pretty deserted.  i am on a two lane road, solid yellow lines, no passing.  i come up to a car going 45 in a 55.  cant pass him.  the road we are traveling on turns into a 4 lane divided highway, with 2 lanes going in each direction.  there are no other cars on the road.  we get to the divided highway part, and what does this asshat do?  he immediately goes to the left lane.  THERE WERE NO OTHER CARS!!!!  WHYYYY????

That's just plain stupid.  There's no reason to drive in the left lane when there are no other cars on the road.

There are roads around where I live where I do drive in the left hand lane when there are no other cars around.  The reason?  Deer.
 
It's probably not going to make a giant difference, but I get a little extra room to view the landscape and feel like it'll give me a few extra milliseconds to react if Bambi decides to "merge."

I can't speak for Bails or Cain, but no need to apologize.  We all get fired up on occassion.  If the worst thing that happens to me on any given day is I get a little pushback from a dude on an internet forum, I'd say it's still a banner day.  :)
 
Anyway, I think we've made our points.  No need to beat this dead horse.

What if the deer is coming from the left?

Stadler: I use that line all the time: "Well, if that's the worst thing that happens, we should be OK...". Love it. My Mom taught me that.
 
And I never get fired up..., but I am a dick, so I guess its a push.