James LaBrie's Tone?

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Madman Shepherd)

Wed, 10 Mar 2010 00:56:48 GMT

ViolinTheater

Guys, this is a great discussion. Thanks for keeping it so positive and to the point, and polite, because I know this topic gets out of hand all the time (for no reason, Mr. LaBrie is one of the greatest singers alive).

One question, does this nasal passage technique make it harder to sing in tune? I know Mr. LaBrie isn't straining, but sometimes notes can be quite flat at times...but then, playing in a huge arena makes it hard to hear!

I would imagine. I am by no means an expert but from what little experience I have I know that the strongest styles of singing are often the hardest on your voice. That is why his performances were more inconsistent in the I&W days but when he was on he fucking KILLED.

Now he can hit 98% of the notes but if you were to hear it directly from the mic into your ears you could tell a difference. Sometimes its flat, sometimes its not as powerful.

Plus, age is a factor. Even a vocalist like Dio can't hit a lot of notes anymore. Don't get me wrong, he is still a vocal god, but he makes a few more compromises than he used to when he performs live.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (cosmotobe)

Tue, 09 Mar 2010 19:59:46 GMT

Staker

I saw the title of this thread and imagined a strict teacher - "I DON'T LIKE YOUR TONE, LABRIE!"

"Absolute rubbish, LaBrie! Get on with your work!
Repeat after me: An acre is the area of a rectangle..."

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Staker)

Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:31:31 GMT

I saw the title of this thread and imagined a strict teacher - "I DON'T LIKE YOUR TONE, LABRIE!"

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Viola da Voce)

Tue, 09 Mar 2010 14:16:11 GMT

I have to admit that I haven't noticed the difference between live and studio tone quality. But what I can say is that I think his voice has become darker and richer as the years go by. Some of that has to do with age. I'm not a vocalist, but I went to school with a bunch of them. I recall (and somebody please correct me if I am wrong about this) that many vocalists reach their peak in their late 30s and early 40s. So if you're comparing the tone of a song from Images and Words to a current live performance, I think there is a noticeable difference.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (colty42)

Tue, 09 Mar 2010 09:30:34 GMT

One question I've had for a while, is why he can't sustain the vibrato on the tough sections in Another Day? Even now with how great he sounds, he doesn't do it. I haven't actually heard him sing the song properly since 1994, before the accident. Could anyone shed some light on that?

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (ViolinTheater)

Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:45:49 GMT

Guys, this is a great discussion. Thanks for keeping it so positive and to the point, and polite, because I know this topic gets out of hand all the time (for no reason, Mr. LaBrie is one of the greatest singers alive).

One question, does this nasal passage technique make it harder to sing in tune? I know Mr. LaBrie isn't straining, but sometimes notes can be quite flat at times...but then, playing in a huge arena makes it hard to hear!

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (TheKeebler)

Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:16:09 GMT

Xulid

Well YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

http://jlbscream.ytmnd.com/old/

I know, I know, it's been posted a billion times. But i LOVE it.

THE MAN IS A GOLDEN GOD

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (nikatapi)

Mon, 08 Mar 2010 18:07:26 GMT

I think a reason for the nasal tone in the live environment is that James uses a technique which keeps his voice in a good condition, without straining it.
I found out this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCH2efeC_g8&feature=related at JLB forum, and at the end (5:20) he hits some very high notes and sounds like 20 years before, so i think he is still able to kick serious ass (i think he does) but he keeps it low so he doesn't do any damage to his voice.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (mexdroid)

Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:58:08 GMT

Just for the record. Last night gig in Mexico City, he sounded like he was in the studio. Awsome.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Madman Shepherd)

Mon, 08 Mar 2010 11:10:01 GMT

colty42

So Madman, did he not use that technique before the Cuba incident? Or during earlier tours, most likely pre-Train of Thought? Because to me his voice has two distinct periods (the vocal rupture notwithstanding): Pre-2002 and Post-2002.

Yes, I'm pretty sure that is about when he changed his style.

If you remember from the DT book, they were close to kicking James out in 2002 because his on stage performances weren't as consistent. In other words, he couldn't hit all the notes and had to sing an octave lower (among other things). He went to a new vocal coach and she said that everything he was taught before was crap (his almost exact words from an interview I read a while back). Then, from the WDADRU show, he is talking with Charlie about a new technique he uses called Passagio which uses the nasal passages.

So what you get is the occasional nasal sounding tone in concert. You can really tell on live albums but not so much when you are actually there. This also means his performances are more consistent though not quite as powerful.

Pre 2002 he would occasionally hit notes that would blow everyone away but those would really kill his voice. Back on the Images & Words tour before the Cuba incident, he would still blow his voice out occasionally. In fact, Kevin Moore's last show was ended early for that very reason leaving "Eve" the last song he ever played with the band rather than what they planned.

So anyway, thats all I know.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (van Furlay)

Mon, 08 Mar 2010 07:52:07 GMT

Liquid Drum Theater

All I know is that JLB is sounding better and better as each year goes by. He was practically flawless on the BC&SL Tour.

That's what I wanted to say with my post.
Wasn't it obvious in my post?

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Cocina_del_infierno)

Mon, 08 Mar 2010 01:07:03 GMT

Well, mostly due to touring...try to hit all those high notes every show, there's a point where your throat doesn't give in anymore.

The studio version will always sound cleaner, since they do takes in between.

Not one of my fav singers though...I prefer Matts Leven or Russell Allen instead, they would make DT sound a whole lotta SWEETER!

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (WilliamMunny)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 23:02:12 GMT

This....

To my ear (and I have much expierience using Melodyne and other pitch "fixing" software) it sounds like a word or a syllable every now and then....99% or more is untouched to me...

a lot of examples I have seen over the years have seemed like syncing issues more than re-recordings...just my .02...

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Xulid)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 22:54:59 GMT

colty42

So Madman, did he not use that technique before the Cuba incident? Or during earlier tours, most likely pre-Train of Thought? Because to me his voice has two distinct periods (the vocal rupture notwithstanding): Pre-2002 and Post-2002.

That makes sense, though. I can't imagine having to sing songs like he has to sing night in and night out for months at a time. It's amazing to me he sounded so strong on Score, what with that being the last show of a World Tour with nothing but 3 hour sets.

The fact that it was the end of a tour may have something to do with it.

When i push myself day after day... eventually I improve significantly.

Sure there was probably some studio polish after the recording took place... but it ain't all Melodyne you're hearing on Score. I'd be willing to bet money on it being 99 % James in fantastic vocal shape.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (ViolinTheater)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 21:15:49 GMT

Flaming responses? I don't believe so...we all are debating this very politely and with good reasoning, and I don't see any responses here that insult Mr. LaBrie...and if they did, I would get very angry as this is not why I started the thread.

Yes, Madman, you hit it on the head I think, the nasal technique is what I was wondering, because he gets a very rich, sustained, powerful tone that I love, but its not as "clear" persay, as his studio singing.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (colty42)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:52:01 GMT

So Madman, did he not use that technique before the Cuba incident? Or during earlier tours, most likely pre-Train of Thought? Because to me his voice has two distinct periods (the vocal rupture notwithstanding): Pre-2002 and Post-2002.

That makes sense, though. I can't imagine having to sing songs like he has to sing night in and night out for months at a time. It's amazing to me he sounded so strong on Score, what with that being the last show of a World Tour with nothing but 3 hour sets.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (WilliamMunny)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 20:44:28 GMT

Softball35

Besides the amazing musicianship, what drew me to DT was the tone of LaBrie's voice. Numerous times I would hear a new band, well at least new to me, and I dug it up until the vocals began. SO many of these prog bands I hear have great musicians however the vocals sound very cheesy and dated. LaBrie's vocal tone did not sound dated or 80's hair band cheesy to me. I will say though I prefer his studio vocals better than his live vocals but they have been doing this gig for over 20 years so that alone takes a toll on anyone's voice.

e. I will say though I prefer his studio vocals better than his live vocals but they have been doing this gig for over 20 years so that alone takes a toll on anyone's voice.

This!!! He is easily in my top-5 vocalists...his voice drew me to the band...and in some cases has been the saving grace to bring me back...

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Madman Shepherd)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 18:59:58 GMT

Oh boy, there is already some flaming responses in this thread.

Like all singers, on stage they are going to do things differently.

Michael Jackson on This Is It sang instead of lip synced except for one song. That one song, They Don't Care About Us is extremely harsh on the voice and could throw it out for the rest of the show.

A part during the Earth Song that is harsh he sang pretty lightly so as to not throw it out.

James does a passagio technique which uses the nasal passage. This helps sustain it for 3 hour concerts and 2 month tours.

It is my suspicion that in the studio he can let loose *a little* more. In other words, if he throws out his voice they only lose a day in the studio but have an awesome take that will last forever. Obviously he can't push it to where he has another Cuba incident but as with most voices, it only takes a day to repair after using it excessively.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Pants of Eternity)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 15:35:58 GMT

In some cases it would be voice doubling.
EQ, while also present live, would be set differently to match the live environment.
His actual singing would be different because of a variety of reasons as well, including energy, the mentality of only having one chance to get it right, lack of repetition, and lack of direction from the producers.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Softball35)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 15:20:52 GMT

Besides the amazing musicianship, what drew me to DT was the tone of LaBrie's voice. Numerous times I would hear a new band, well at least new to me, and I dug it up until the vocals began. SO many of these prog bands I hear have great musicians however the vocals sound very cheesy and dated. LaBrie's vocal tone did not sound dated or 80's hair band cheesy to me. I will say though I prefer his studio vocals better than his live vocals but they have been doing this gig for over 20 years so that alone takes a toll on anyone's voice.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (ViolinTheater)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 15:06:05 GMT

cosmotobe

@ViolinTheater
Do you have some examples of this "warm" tone? How about Wither or the end of TCoT?

I realized what I wrote makes no sense. Yes, Wither and TCOT is very warm in his singing, as is TBOT.

I love all aspects of his voice, but when he was younger, he really had this warm, vibrating, easy pop/like voice that really fit with whatever he sang. Now, he has a more structured, layered, powerful voice that just soars, but the tone, pronunciation, and overall feel Mr. LaBrie gives the music has lost some of that early, (i hate to say it) poppy, "young" style he used to have.

Of course, that is because times change, he is aging gracefully, his voice is better than ever, and I really see that he is bringing all that he can emote to all the songs he sings.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (cosmotobe)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 14:44:56 GMT

@ViolinTheater
Do you have some examples of this "warm" tone? How about Wither or the end of TCoT?

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (ViolinTheater)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:54:05 GMT

Liquid Drum Theater

His voice has changed ever since the poisoning incident in '94-95. I don't think he'll ever be able to scream like that ever again (LATM Killing Hand, for example).

The truth is that his voice was damaged. He's lost that 'harshness' he used to have. Or maybe he can't do it anymore in case of damaging the voice further. I don't know anything about vocal technique so am only guessing here.

All I know is that JLB is sounding better and better as each year goes by. He was practically flawless on the BC&SL Tour.

I'm just saying that I don't think his voice will allow him to scream like that anymore.

On the same note, he also lost that really really warm tone he used to have in his singing, but not it has so much more power.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Liquid Drum Theater)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:48:46 GMT

His voice has changed ever since the poisoning incident in '94-95. I don't think he'll ever be able to scream like that ever again (LATM Killing Hand, for example).

The truth is that his voice was damaged. He's lost that 'harshness' he used to have. Or maybe he can't do it anymore in case of damaging the voice further. I don't know anything about vocal technique so am only guessing here.

All I know is that JLB is sounding better and better as each year goes by. He was practically flawless on the BC&SL Tour.

I'm just saying that I don't think his voice will allow him to scream like that anymore.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Angz)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 12:11:03 GMT

something_wicked

Xulid

Well YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

http://jlbscream.ytmnd.com/old/

I know, I know, it's been posted a billion times. But i LOVE it.

It's always worth re-posting, especially if some people(me) havenae clicked it before

The man is a beast!

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (van Furlay)

Sun, 07 Mar 2010 09:37:20 GMT

I don't know anything to say regarding his studio/live setting.

But what I can say is that I honestly think that it took Labrie about 15 years to come back to form 100% after his illness after Awake.
I really love him on every album, but to me his performance on BC&SL is just awesome. And so were his performance on Awake.

And because of this I think that his live performace has become as awesome as it has been once.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Taffer)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 19:02:40 GMT

^ welcome to the forum :P aha

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Zhaboka)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 17:01:17 GMT

Taffer

At the risk of being flamed, I apologise if I'm wrong here...but my guess is studio touch-up is the reason

If you get flamed for that, then we have some serious denial problems around here.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (something_wicked)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 16:37:21 GMT

Xulid

Well YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

http://jlbscream.ytmnd.com/old/

I know, I know, it's been posted a billion times. But i LOVE it.

It's always worth re-posting, especially if some people(me) havenae clicked it before

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Xulid)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 16:18:04 GMT

Well YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

http://jlbscream.ytmnd.com/old/

I know, I know, it's been posted a billion times. But i LOVE it.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (DougMasters)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:43:06 GMT

tomtom192

He definitely uses a LOT more vibrato live than in the studio, that's for sure. And let's face it, singing live is a whole other situation than singing in the studio. I guess he uses certain techniques live that help him sing for 2+ hours every night. If not, he would probably be out of the game after a few nights. So he has to somehow sing in an "efficient" way and somehow manage to not get his voice too tired after a few nights.

That's what I was wondering. Maybe letting his voice free and letting it vibrate allows it to stay open and not forced instead of controlling it every night? I don't know anything about voice so I don't know.

Can any vocalists come in on this and explain?

This. I've studied Vocal Health a bit and if James sang every night like he sings in the studio (where they can control how much time has to rest his voice, humidity, temperature, etc.) He would never have a voice. He is a classically (read: operatic) trained singer. They NEED to use vibrato when singing 'out'. People with no training might find it easier to straight-tone everything, but people who have JLB's training must use a lot of vibrato to keep the mechanism going and be able to sing for 2 hours a night. Overall, it's a much healthier way to sing, when his voice absolutely needs to remain healthy, lest the band lose revenue.

And on top of that, IT SOUNDS EFFIN AWESOME !!!

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (tomtom192)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:40:21 GMT

He definitely uses a LOT more vibrato live than in the studio, that's for sure. And let's face it, singing live is a whole other situation than singing in the studio. I guess he uses certain techniques live that help him sing for 2+ hours every night. If not, he would probably be out of the game after a few nights. So he has to somehow sing in an "efficient" way and somehow manage to not get his voice too tired after a few nights.

That's what I was wondering. Maybe letting his voice free and letting it vibrate allows it to stay open and not forced instead of controlling it every night? I don't know anything about voice so I don't know.

Can any vocalists come in on this and explain?

This. I've studied Vocal Health a bit and if James sang every night like he sings in the studio (where they can control how much time has to rest his voice, humidity, temperature, etc.) He would never have a voice. He is a classically (read: operatic) trained singer. They NEED to use vibrato when singing 'out'. People with no training might find it easier to straight-tone everything, but people who have JLB's training must use a lot of vibrato to keep the mechanism going and be able to sing for 2 hours a night. Overall, it's a much healthier way to sing, when his voice absolutely needs to remain healthy, lest the band lose revenue.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (ViolinTheater)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:15:48 GMT

szabiakanich

He definitely uses a LOT more vibrato live than in the studio, that's for sure. And let's face it, singing live is a whole other situation than singing in the studio. I guess he uses certain techniques live that help him sing for 2+ hours every night. If not, he would probably be out of the game after a few nights. So he has to somehow sing in an "efficient" way and somehow manage to not get his voice too tired after a few nights.

That's what I was wondering. Maybe letting his voice free and letting it vibrate allows it to stay open and not forced instead of controlling it every night? I don't know anything about voice so I don't know.

Can any vocalists come in on this and explain?

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (szabiakanich)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 11:10:56 GMT

He definitely uses a LOT more vibrato live than in the studio, that's for sure. And let's face it, singing live is a whole other situation than singing in the studio. I guess he uses certain techniques live that help him sing for 2+ hours every night. If not, he would probably be out of the game after a few nights. So he has to somehow sing in an "efficient" way and somehow manage to not get his voice too tired after a few nights.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (BlobVanDam)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:52:31 GMT

Soundchaser

Taffer

At the risk of being flamed, I apologise if I'm wrong here...but my guess is studio touch-up is the reason

I think you're quite right.

Make no mistake people, there is autotune on James in the studio.

Not that he needs it I'm sure, but everyone does it. Just to make it that much more perfect.

But that has little to do with the tone of his voice in the studio vs live. It's more about the style he sings and his enunciation rather than just intonation, although it does dampen the vibrato slightly.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Soundchaser)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:47:57 GMT

ViolinTheater

^But I saw the video of Chaos in Progress and Mr. LaBrie was singing in the studio on camera flawlessly.

I've seen it too, and it definitely is really really good. But like I said, it's just there to make it that much better.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Taffer)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:42:43 GMT

1hByTheLakeOfFire

Taffer

Like he really thinks it through.

I would hope so...

Heheh, you make it sound like I'm impressed that he simply tries to do his job good. What I meant is that I admire the.......passion he clearly has for singing every word on an album the best way possible. He's very emotive. I think he said himself that he tries to put his mind in the lyrics to understand them so he can portray the words perfectly. Think that shows.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (ViolinTheater)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:42:26 GMT

^But I saw the video of Chaos in Progress and Mr. LaBrie was singing in the studio on camera flawlessly.

Re:James LaBrie's Tone? (Soundchaser)

Sat, 06 Mar 2010 10:40:03 GMT

Taffer

At the risk of being flamed, I apologise if I'm wrong here...but my guess is studio touch-up is the reason

I think you're quite right.

Make no mistake people, there is autotune on James in the studio.

Not that he needs it I'm sure, but everyone does it. Just to make it that much more perfect.