Story behind "The Count of Tuscany"

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Niek_pas)

Fri, 14 May 2010 18:13:50 GMT

ProgJai

I always thought adding a "full bodied" (in reference to the soldiers hiding in the barrels of wine) would be especially evil

Come and have a taste
A rare vintage
All the FULL BODIED wines
Improve with age

Yeah but that wouldn't fit in the song.

All the fullbodiedwines! improve with age!

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (something_wicked)

Fri, 14 May 2010 18:07:28 GMT

dci1812

We did a huge cheese roll, to accompany the cheese lyrics, si?

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (ProgJai)

Fri, 14 May 2010 18:00:19 GMT

I always thought adding a "full bodied" (in reference to the soldiers hiding in the barrels of wine) would be especially evil

Come and have a taste
A rare vintage
All the FULL BODIED wines
Improve with age

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (symphonyrat)

Fri, 14 May 2010 17:00:37 GMT

Come and have a taste
A rare vintage
All the finest wines
Improve with age

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (dp_DvS)

Fri, 14 May 2010 15:13:25 GMT

I was inspired by this awesome, hilarious, informative thread to make a little treat for you all. Enjoy!

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (metallidoom33)

Mon, 24 Aug 2009 19:51:23 GMT

Epitaph04

Sirens_Of_Titan

Quick Count of Tuscany question:

Does anyone else get the crap scared out of them when this song ends because Stargazer from the covers cd comes on really loud as the next song in your music library? Seriously this happens every time for me

^^^

That happened to me a lot with the end of To Live is To Die off of AJFA...

^^ That's one of my Top 10 Metallica moments.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (ThisFlyingSoul)

Sun, 23 Aug 2009 19:11:45 GMT

I think it's pretty clear by now that this monster epic song needs new lyrics to be fully appreciated... If Bearman won't, who's up for the challenge?

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Niek_pas)

Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:35:45 GMT

Why is it that every time i hear "get into my car", i get a vision of Arnold Schwarzenegger?

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Lockestar)

Sun, 23 Aug 2009 18:17:45 GMT

dci1812

MYSTERY SOLVED!!!
blah blah blah

More info at these websites:

http://www.music.iastate.edu/courses/471/capponi.htm

http://www.theflorentine.net/articles/article-view.asp?issuetocid=2615

NOWHERE in those articles does it mention ANYTHING about a distinguished accent.
Just kidding- when I first bought this CD I listened to this song a thousand times and loved it, didn't think too much in to the story either- but then i read this thread and now I can never listen to the song seriously again!

Argh, LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!!

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Sabredog)

Sun, 23 Aug 2009 13:17:31 GMT

Haha oh god, it'd be amazing to hijack a meet and greet.

Like twenty people queue up holding pictures of the Count of Tuscany and put on distinguished accents when they talk to him, JP would shit himself. Possibly literally.

Get one of them to ask what his dinner plans are after the gig, too. Maybe invite him along for a little drive.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (ganpondorodf)

Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:43:13 GMT

We need to get that picture printed and signed by JP.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Ytsejam88)

Mon, 17 Aug 2009 06:38:06 GMT

dci1812....

Amazing work! I have been intrigued by the meaning of that song since release.
I still don't see why JP would be fearing for his life though lol.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (dci1812)

Mon, 17 Aug 2009 05:15:15 GMT

For all those interested, here is a picture of BOTH of the "Counts of Tuscany" at their winery. Count Sebastiano Capponi is the younger brother in the blue shirt , and Count Niccolo Capponi is the older brother in the burgandy shirt.

If you want to see Count Niccolo Capponi in the Thomas Harris film "Hannibal", watch where Dr. Fell (Dr. Lecter) is giving his speech in the Capponi Library (right before killing Inspector Pazzi). When Inspector Pazzi's phone rings and disturbs the presentation, you can see a cameo of Count Niccolo Capponi (sucking on his pipe, none-the-less) in the crowd.

Enjoy!

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (dci1812)

Mon, 17 Aug 2009 02:12:08 GMT

UPDATE / CORRECTION

After a little more research, here's some more info:

There are TWO brothers: Niccolo Capponi and Sebastiano Capponi. BOTH of them are Counts living in the Tuscany area. Niccolo is the beard-wearing, pipe-smoking historian who was a consultant on (and extra in) the Hannibal film. Sebastiano runs the family estate and winery.

This all seems to fit together very nicely. After reading the book "The Monster of Florence" by Douglas Preston and Mario Spezi, it seems fairly clear that neither of them are the "Monster", but that they were both somewhat connected to the whole making of the Hannibal movie.

I am sure they both have some freaky stories regarding the history of their family and their estates.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (JStamper)

Mon, 17 Aug 2009 00:51:04 GMT

zhifmcd

That's what I don't get. Musically the song is great, but as a storytelling device it doesn't quite work. The protagonist appears to be in a perfectly ordinary situation, yet he fears for his life. We never understand why. There's no establishment of basis for this fear. It's just like let's go for a ride, check out my house, check out my wine cellar. Um, you thought what? Uh, no, wasn't planning on killing you. By the way, tell everyone about my brother and me, and how we didn't kill you and stuff.

I don't mean to mock the song--I do like it a lot. Just doesn't hit home with me lyrically. Maybe in time it will.

This is pretty much exactly how I feel - I feel like the lyrics, as a story, were somewhat forced into the music. But, I can't stop listening to it.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Resipsa)

Sun, 16 Aug 2009 22:03:49 GMT

Looks like I was on the wrong path. Nice work!

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (dci1812)

Sun, 16 Aug 2009 21:47:52 GMT

MYSTERY SOLVED!!!

The count is: Count Niccoli Capponi. He is a bearded, historian count who lives in the Tuscany area, and whose family is in the wine business.

He was a source of information for the Thomas Harris film "Hannibal", and is mentioned in the book. He also makes an appearance in the movie as one of the panel members for Dr. Fell's (Lecter's) selection as curator of the CAPPONI Library.

More info at these websites:

http://www.music.iastate.edu/courses/471/capponi.htm

http://www.theflorentine.net/articles/article-view.asp?issuetocid=2615

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Stadler)

Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:32:26 GMT

ganpondorodf

That's the stupidest Goddamn argument ever. So we should never criticise anything unless we know that we could do better? I've never seen a film made by Roger Ebert, so I guess he'd better stop being a film critic then. I don't mind the lyrics of the song, personally, but that "I don't see you doing any better" argument really gets on my tits.

Oh, and as an aside, Roger Ebert does have a screenwriting credit to his name: "Beyond The Valley of the Dolls". He was also involved (though I don't remember how) in a movie involving the Sex Pistols.

Anyway, the Roger Ebert-type "criticism" is different than "these lyrics suck, man!" criticism in just about every way. I know we're on a band site (and a band that has made a career about defying the "critics" - both kinds) and it's convenient and hip to knock the critics, but there IS a difference.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Stadler)

Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:24:34 GMT

ganpondorodf

Eon

thesleeper20

Sorry, but imo TCOT can hardly be described as having lyrics of substance, its simple, straightforward, linear and pretty naive storytelling. Compare it with other lyrics JP has written and you'll see what I mean.

Alright, lets see you do better... no? Didnt think so.

That's the stupidest Goddamn argument ever. So we should never criticise anything unless we know that we could do better? I've never seen a film made by Roger Ebert, so I guess he'd better stop being a film critic then. I don't mind the lyrics of the song, personally, but that "I don't see you doing any better" argument really gets on my tits.

It's actually the SECOND stupidest argument ever. The STUPIDEST argument ever is the "I don't like it therefore it is of low quality" argument. No relation whatsoever. I'm tired of these comments, "The lyrics aren't of the same quality as they used to be" just because they don't hit the mark for THAT PERSON. Dude, you don't like it, fine, man up and say that, but don't suppose that because you don't care for it, that somehow JP is no longer creative or putting in the same effort or furthering his art. Not your call, man.

Back to your regular programming... ;)

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (STEVETHEATER)

Wed, 12 Aug 2009 17:12:00 GMT

Put the f@cking lotion in the basket!!!!

Ted Levine SOTL

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (aredore)

Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:28:21 GMT

Weymolith

lennartbar

let me introduce....MAH BRUUTHAAAA

"maybe you recall a cannibal curator a character inspired my my brother´s life"

It puts the lotion on the skinnnnnnnn, oh wait that was from Joe Dirt

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Resipsa)

Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:56:03 GMT

dci1812

There has been a lot of speculation here regarding who the Count could be based on. Much of the speculation has centered on Pietro Pacciani. If you do a little research, you will find that Pacciani was NOTHING like the person described in TCOT. He was a drunken, oafish, uneducated bully. Thomas Harris was following the case of the Monster of Florence and based parts of Hannibal Lecter's character from that case. He did NOT base Hannibal Lecter on Pertro Pacciani. There has also been a fair amount of (unfair, I think) critisism of JP's reaction to what he experienced in Tuscany. Listed below is a link to what is BY FAR the most exhaustive (English) account of the ongoing mystery behind the Monster of Florence. It addresses both matters here. If you acquaint yourself with the contents of this article, it is easy to see: 1) Pacciani was - very likely - falsely accused, and 2) how easily it would have been for JP to have been scared by considering the true facts of the case. Take close note of the man described only as "The Sardonian", and also of a very suspicious "Grande Ville" he and other suspicious persons of interest frequented (wine cellars and all). Enjoy!! http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200607/florence-murder

Intrigued by TCOT and such speculations about the Monster of Florence, I actually picked up Preston's book "The Monster of Florence" when I saw it in an airport bookstore.

The character that struck me as most familiar was Prince Roberto Corsini. He was a suspect at one time until the murders continued after he himself was murdered in 1984.

According to the Preston book, Corsini's ancestors included a Pope (Clement XII).
Other references to Catholic royalty in the Corsini family can be found at http://www.tastedonline.com/wine-magazine/edition-4/le-corti-and-the-corsini-family_436.html and include bishops, cardinals, and a SAINT - Andrea di Niccolò, canonized in 1624 by Pope Urban VIII.

Also found at http://www.tastedonline.com/wine-magazine/edition-4/le-corti-and-the-corsini-family_436.html are biographies of the two currently living scions of the Corsini family:
1. Principe Don Filippo Corsini (b.1937), described as a descendant of Conte (count) Palatino - Filippo Corsini (1334–1421) who was created count palatine by the emperor Charles IV - http://www.familyestatesintuscany.com/category/some-history/
2. Duccio Corsini (b.1964), son of Filippo and currently a prominent vintner and wine baron near Florence.

I propose that "The Count of Tuscany" is one of these two living Corsinis. I'm leaning towards the old man, since Duccio seems to have no brothers.

Since Prince Roberto Corsini was probably not "The Monster of Florence", there could be a bit of creative exaggeration in the Count's story. But nothing ruins good storytelling like strict adherence to fact.

My research was cursory, so this is not intended to be canon, but an invitation to discussion.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Drewidian)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 20:10:34 GMT

where's that edit button..... ^trashable, I'm/we're good

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Drewidian)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 19:34:51 GMT

Hazboy

We're good. Apples & oranges, Abrahms & Panzers...District 9?
That looks like a vintage Strat you'r weilding. Nice axe!
My baby is a '73 Fender J-Bass.
Nice to meet ya'

Nice to meet ya'

rhiddle me a reply!
actually on second thought, talk to me like I'm 5 b/c in that rebut is a part of my name and I'm borderline Paranoid PD....
you got me back, ok!

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Hazboy)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:45:30 GMT

We're good. Apples & oranges, Abrahms & Panzers...District 9?
That looks like a vintage Strat you'r weilding. Nice axe!
My baby is a '73 Fender J-Bass.
Nice to meet ya'

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Drewidian)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:15:13 GMT

Hey Drewidian! Talk to us wankers! That's Brit for a tos violation, but got it. You readin' 'The Boys' - Ennis & Robertson - Dynamite Comics? If ya' ain't then take my word & check it out. Reply

sir, I meant that for no one in particular - especially not of this forum - but just the reputation I have gleaned from not just my own personal reading experiences.....and given the sheer volume of pundits and shakers- there's a BIG chance I could in no way have come across anything you may have respectably put sincere integrity and work into.....

no harm, man......but yea, apples to oranges.
peace and cheers

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Hazboy)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:07:47 GMT

Thanks I-90, I'll check it out.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Hazboy)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:02:39 GMT

Hey Drewidian!
Talk to us wankers! That's Brit for a tos violation, but got it.
You readin' 'The Boys' - Ennis & Robertson - Dynamite Comics? If ya' ain't then take my word & check it out.
Reply

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (IamMe90)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:41:20 GMT

Hazboy

Hi, I-90,
The only pitchfork I know of is the tool that one uses to well, pitch hay?
Turn me on here - if I can cop a second online job writing for...clue me in, man.

pitchfork.com

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Drewidian)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:30:05 GMT

PITCHFORK:

fuckin wankers.....
(hey I can have an opinion can't I?)

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Hazboy)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 17:09:15 GMT

Hi, I-90,
The only pitchfork I know of is the tool that one uses to well, pitch hay?
Turn me on here - if I can cop a second online job writing for...clue me in, man.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Hazboy)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:57:43 GMT

Merquise, Reading the lyrics also reminded me of Poe's 'Cask of Amontillado' which I had read back in 6th grade. A horrible circumstance for a young person to assimilate! But JP did spare us of the torch thrown into the walled-in tomb, the jester's costume's bells jingling while the last bricks were mortared into place.
I'm pretty sure JP is familiar with Poe, as he has also read H.P. Lovecraft as is evidenced by The Dark Eternal Night from Systematic Chaos.
It's no wonder he got creeped out!
Very cool...

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (IamMe90)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:43:04 GMT

Hazboy

The intro is gorgeous. I trust you've listened to the rest by now. This is undoubtedly one of the best compostions I've ever enjoyed, and I'm not a musical neophyte.
The denoument beginning with JP's haunting lyrical reiteration over JR's cathedralesque foundation to the acoustic intro to JL's compressed soliliquy left me in tears and shaking my head. And when the Count dispells JP's fears, well, tears and smiles aren't a bad combination. Leave it to these guys...

do you write for pitchfork

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (Hazboy)

Sat, 08 Aug 2009 16:33:26 GMT

The intro is gorgeous. I trust you've listened to the rest by now. This is undoubtedly one of the best compostions I've ever enjoyed, and I'm not a musical neophyte.
The denoument beginning with JP's haunting lyrical reiteration over JR's cathedralesque foundation to the acoustic intro to JL's compressed soliliquy left me in tears and shaking my head. And when the Count dispells JP's fears, well, tears and smiles aren't a bad combination. Leave it to these guys...

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (eddie_the_ead)

Fri, 07 Aug 2009 17:03:23 GMT

toky_world

STEVETHEATER

Well, here it is... JP finally talks about The Count!

http://www.portalgotico.com/2009/06/entrevista-john-petrucci-dos-dream.html

PG - Can you tell us something about the Count of Tuscany?

Petrucci - Yeah, that's another example of a story that I shared, you know, something that happened to me that I would tell my friends and family but I never really wrote about it. Yeah, it's sort of hard to follow the story but it's basically a few years ago when Dream Theater were playing in Florence or something and there was my friend who is my guitar tech, he's also wine importer, so he wanted to visit a winery in Tuscany, so he asked me if I wanted to come along.

So, yeah, the guy who owned the winery is a count, he wasn´t the count of Tuscany, he is a count of something, anyway he brought us to this winery, it was a very old castle in the hills of Italy, it was very bizarre, you know just really weird stories the guy told, you know, like a mummified saint and a chapel, very strange and weird, I thought it would be great to tell that story, probably make a movie of it!

So, there you have it...

THE END

Somehow I imagine this JP with the voice of Adam02 as in...

"I will rip out your heart and feed it....to the dragons"

This is fucking hilarious... but I just can't get it out of my head: GET INTO MAH CAHR!!

Kinda reminds me of the latest DVD from Lamb of God:

Bassplayer: "Ya liek mah fucking cahr?"
While he's driving in a muscle car... from a friend of his.. oh well, long story.

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (toky_world)

Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:13:28 GMT

STEVETHEATER

Well, here it is... JP finally talks about The Count!

http://www.portalgotico.com/2009/06/entrevista-john-petrucci-dos-dream.html

PG - Can you tell us something about the Count of Tuscany?

Petrucci - Yeah, that's another example of a story that I shared, you know, something that happened to me that I would tell my friends and family but I never really wrote about it. Yeah, it's sort of hard to follow the story but it's basically a few years ago when Dream Theater were playing in Florence or something and there was my friend who is my guitar tech, he's also wine importer, so he wanted to visit a winery in Tuscany, so he asked me if I wanted to come along.

So, yeah, the guy who owned the winery is a count, he wasn´t the count of Tuscany, he is a count of something, anyway he brought us to this winery, it was a very old castle in the hills of Italy, it was very bizarre, you know just really weird stories the guy told, you know, like a mummified saint and a chapel, very strange and weird, I thought it would be great to tell that story, probably make a movie of it!

So, there you have it...

THE END

Somehow I imagine this JP with the voice of Adam02 as in...

"I will rip out your heart and feed it....to the dragons"

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (ganpondorodf)

Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:36:11 GMT

Sabredog

"Hey guy I've just met, I'm gonna abduct you all the way to my estate so you can meet my brother. He's great, he's like a real life Hannibal Lecter, you'll love him.

"Right that's the "we're gonna eat you" section of the tour over, onto my collection of corpses!"

This made me laugh quite a bit. Just picture JP being scared stiff throughout.

Anyway, the lyrics of Wither remind me of a piece of creative writing we had to do at school when I was about 13 or so. The title we were given was "I couldn't think of what to do next", so I ended up doing a completely stupid self-referential thing about trying to write a piece of creative writing, then getting a mental block and being unable to finish said piece of creative writing. Pretty post-modern for such a young lad, I reckoned!

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (WilliamMunny)

Fri, 07 Aug 2009 09:32:16 GMT

This thread is awesome!

btw...I was listening to Lines In The Sand this morning....damn! Those are some good lyrics!

Re:Story behind "The Count of Tuscany" (jml32488)

Fri, 07 Aug 2009 07:27:51 GMT

JP is still not mentioning some details, like who the cannibal currator is... :P