Nuggets on Octavarium

I got a nugget :

In octavarium, the song, at 18:40, mike portnoy says "root", "second" .... "sixth", "seventh", "octave" and between each number, james labrie says 8 sentences about the 8 songs in the album Octavarium.

Well, this is not the nugget, the nugget is that you can hear after each number (root, second, third...), while james labrie's talking, an excerpt of every song in the background.

Root : "take all of me" (from 3:03 in The Root Of All Evil)
Second : "don't let the day go by" (from 4:21 in The Answers lies Within
Third : I didn't found yet
Fourth : "I walk beside you"  (from 1:06 in I Walk Beside You)
Fifth : "hysteria" (from 3:55 in Panic Attack)
Sixth : "what would you say" (from 2:50 in Never Enough)
Seventh : Labrie's talking too loud for me to hear it !
Octave : "side effects appear" (maybe from 11:52 in Octavarium)

Nugget you!

ORIGINAL: Nick Lee

Nugget you!

And you especially Nick Ree, Mr Ree you need to go play more guitar and give us more soundclips, you have been slacking my redheaded Canadian Hombre.

i think there's something up with 6 and 7 then.....
in the domino's thingy, if you add the low part of one with the high part of the other domino, it gives you six, and then seven if you add the remaining numbers, also TROAE is parts 6 & 7 from AA..... and if you add the  flats that you have on the side of the names of the songs (14) and divide it by two, it gives you 7. if you add the sharps besides the names of the songs (3) and multiply it by two, it gives you 6!   
 
also, if you add each group of black keys of the octave separately with half the white keys, you also get 6 and 7
 
8V, as I&W, was released in june 7th (7/6/1992 and 6/7/2005)
 
 
there are a total of 8 crows in the booklet
 
 
lol my 2 cents

Look man... I made some terrible work at Paint , but at least you get the idea...
Look the members in diferent positions , there a picture there..

OMG
my post about the 6 and 7's is number 472, and if you do 4+2, it gives you six!
 
plus:
 
 
SEVEN COMES AFTER SIX!!!!!!!!1 AND I'M USING LETTER SIZE SEVEN TO WRITE THIS!
 
WHOA!
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
im a looser...
 
 
 
 
 

ORIGINAL: AraGosT

ORIGINAL: Luchitos

Exactly, but we still don't know what is going on, and I for one would like to know a bit better the situation, what's going on. In ACOS for example, we know it's about Mike and all, and it's quite clear, but here it appears to be deeper than this. I don't know, I like to find deeper meaning in things. Besides, the song in itself is not giving any clues as to what is going on with whomever it's about. Been 30 years where? Be like whom?

Because, as much as it can be about themselves and the band, the song itself, aside from its relation to the band, tells a particular story in its lyrics and music, a trip, if you will, through that particular reality, and I'd like to know the circumstances of this song's story.

I completely Agree. We'll have to wait for MP for some explanation ... this story IS greatly PROG (yes, all CAPS), and to be precise the kind of PROG I like the most :D

(gee, we could fill dtfaq.com with just this thread...)

i think the song is about PROG
 
edit: so what, i got 8V last night and im nugget hungry
 
 
edit2: a DT cd has never gotten to argentina so close to it's original release date (five days later.....)...... is this a signal fo them...........maby......................coming to ARGENTINA!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
 

Does anyone else get the feeling that Mike wrote Never Enough about the forum users?

 
you know what... I got the same feeling when I listened to it... I don't know if it's dedicated to the forum users specifically maybe to fans in general 

ORIGINAL: ShAnEe
you know what... I got the same feeling when I listened to it... I don't know if it's dedicated to the forum users specifically maybe to fans in general 

I don't think it's directed to fans in general at all, just a few bad apples.

ORIGINAL: motorhead9999

I also get the odd feeling of this being a "Goodbye" album for some reason. Never Enough was some pretty heavy feelings (anyone reminded lyrically of Tool's "Hooker with a Penis"?). The eight ball is always the final ball to be sunk, the stop sign, the fact that the cover ball isn't going to hit any more balls...I dunno...all their various styles seem to converge on this album, from the heaviness of ToT to the some of their experimental type stuff from Great Debate, to their Images and Words/Awake type stuff. All in perfect balance...ready to leave the Octavarium...

 
yes, you're right...
 
and haven't you stopped and think how they might continue...
 
you all know that the SFAM's ending is the same as the SDOIT's begining, and the SDOIT's ending is the same as the TOT's begining... and that the last note of the TOT is the same with which Octavarium starts, and the funny thing is that, it ends with the same note... so... my point is: how do you continue the sequence? it looks like an ending
 
thinking about that gives me the creeps
 

ORIGINAL: soulexposed

ORIGINAL: ShAnEe
you know what... I got the same feeling when I listened to it... I don't know if it's dedicated to the forum users specifically maybe to fans in general 

I don't think it's directed to fans in general at all, just a few bad apples.

I believe it's about exactly what Mike said it was about in his XM interview....

hmmm, imagine that. lol

I know, I know, I'm not being very patient right now, but you guys really ought to explore around a bit, there is all kinds of cool information about this website and oft the answers to your questions have very official answers.

Oh, I don't see anything in that paint edited picture but a big white blob.

What else? OH yeah, the swinging balls are also a discussed nugget from earlier in the thread and I think it's probably as simple as beginning and end. I don't think Mike went through any physics class for a hidden nugget. This thread is about nuggets, not gold dust. LOL. You guys are pounding this nugget thing to death. LOL

ORIGINAL: soulexposed

ORIGINAL: ShAnEe
you know what... I got the same feeling when I listened to it... I don't know if it's dedicated to the forum users specifically maybe to fans in general 

I don't think it's directed to fans in general at all, just a few bad apples.

 
I will just answer that with what someone else had said...
I read that after posting that, and I agree
 

ORIGINAL: drumpriest

When I heard MP on the XM41 Eddie Trunk show, he kind of hinted that Never Enough kind of represented DT fans in general!! WE ARE FANATICAL and he's right...we can't get enough! I mean just look at all the fans/musicians analyzing this new album!!
 

ORIGINAL: ShAnEe

ORIGINAL: motorhead9999

I also get the odd feeling of this being a "Goodbye" album for some reason. Never Enough was some pretty heavy feelings (anyone reminded lyrically of Tool's "Hooker with a Penis"?). The eight ball is always the final ball to be sunk, the stop sign, the fact that the cover ball isn't going to hit any more balls...I dunno...all their various styles seem to converge on this album, from the heaviness of ToT to the some of their experimental type stuff from Great Debate, to their Images and Words/Awake type stuff. All in perfect balance...ready to leave the Octavarium...

yes, you're right...

and haven't you stopped and think how they might continue...

you all know that the SFAM's ending is the same as the SDOIT's begining, and the SDOIT's ending is the same as the TOT's begining... and that the last note of the TOT is the same with which Octavarium starts, and the funny thing is that, it ends with the same note... so... my point is: how do you continue the sequence? it looks like an ending

thinking about that gives me the creeps

Again, been discussed, and it's not a goodbye album. See the XM interview for reference. It's the end of a contract. There might even be a new one with the same record company. There may not. The thing is about that contract, not the end of DT.

mhhmhm.... nuggets

ORIGINAL: xALEXx
lets name these balls...

 
I don't name anyone's balls but my own.
 
And I don't name mine.

If you place the open booklet on a flat surface with the fold spread out (so you can see the back cover and the front cover simulataneously), there are 8 balls with 5 crows! Incredible...

In peaceful sedation I lay half awake
And all of the panic inside starts to fade

yes, and they are the black keys in a keyboard octave.....
 
if you look at the last page, with the kid speaking, imagine that the message travels through the wire. then look at the left part of the front cover (the part with two crows and the ball leaning to the left). imagina that his speaking into that ball. then that ball will hit the balls, and eventually hit the last one. now turn, and look at the kid that listens to the can. he would be listening the message that the other kid started and that went through the balls.

ORIGINAL: moncholo

yes, and they are the black keys in a keyboard octave.....

if you look at the last page, with the kid speaking, imagine that the message travels through the wire. then look at the left part of the front cover (the part with two crows and the ball leaning to the left). imagina that his speaking into that ball. then that ball will hit the balls, and eventually hit the last one. now turn, and look at the kid that listens to the can. he would be listening the message that the other kid started and that went through the balls.

WOW that is a great theory.  That might the reason why Mike intentionally made the 2 shorter.

Has anybody else recognized the similarity in 6:30-6:38 of Octovarium to :53-1:04 in Finally Free?  Or is it just my musically untrained ear?

We made a land where crap is king and the good don't last too long 

when he says "so many....." sounds just like "this feeling..."

I don't know if this has been posted before, but the end of Octavarium finishes the chord that TROAE left hanging.  I just realized that the other day.

ORIGINAL: Rabidmonk5

ORIGINAL: moncholo

yes, and they are the black keys in a keyboard octave.....

if you look at the last page, with the kid speaking, imagine that the message travels through the wire. then look at the left part of the front cover (the part with two crows and the ball leaning to the left). imagina that his speaking into that ball. then that ball will hit the balls, and eventually hit the last one. now turn, and look at the kid that listens to the can. he would be listening the message that the other kid started and that went through the balls.

WOW that is a great theory.  That might the reason why Mike intentionally made the 2 shorter.

another thing to help my theory: the last two paragraphs of the title track....

"We move in circles
Balanced all the while
On a gleaming razor's edge

A perfect sphere
Colliding with our fate
This story ends where it began"
 
the message goes like a circle around the booklet. balanced are the balls on the cover. spheres are the balls in the cover . these balls collide. and the story ends where it began: the message ends where the booklet starts. thats gotta be related to the thing of TROAE being actually the last song if you listen 8V in a row

ORIGINAL: Matika

Here's a nugget.....go outside, stop looking into everything.

Lies and hearsay.

MFSP

They're trying tell ya he got his face smashed in by a hovercraft.

can someone make a single post that sums this all up, cuz we have probly 4 pages of new stuff and the rest all repeats.
 
Maybe MP wants to do that :P

+1

I've already done that, but I'll do it again...

I thought I'd sum up all the PLAUSIBLE and SIGNIFICANT nuggets (tell me if I've missed some). This post was actually first made on the ProgArchives forums by me with all original ideas, before being a member of this forum (except where I say otherwise).



We'll start with the cover. As you all probably noticed, when folded out it makes one complete picture includiung front and back. This forms a Newton's Cradle with 8 balls. There are five birds, strategically located. If you imagine the first balls as F on a keyboard, the first bird is F#. This pattern continues with the balls representing white keys and the birds representing the black keys. I'm still unsure as to the significance of the person in the wierd position on the back. Any suggestions would be welcome. All I can come up with is that the theme of circles is present in the way that she is waving her body/hair in circles. It's a stretch, I know.

Then comes the first page. We see a young boy hold one of those can and twine telephones held up to his ear. The line trails off of the left side of the page.

Second page we get credits. Nothing special.

Page 3: there is a treble clef and staff in the top left corner with the key of F minor and time signature 1/8 preciding the text "the root of all evil." The one represents the number of the track. Below this header are the lyrics.

Next page we are presented with the same header except the key og G minor and time signature 2/8 is shown before "the answer lies within." It is all set against a picture of a hillside reminiscent of the cover with two monstrous dominoes in the foreground and middleground. The first dominoe has 3 and 2 on the face (5) and the second has a 5 and 3 (8). This reflects the number of black and white keys in one octave of a keyboard, and also represents the five band members. There are some birds flying around (3), but I see no real significance in this.

The next page has the key of A minor and time siganture 3/8. The next page shows an 8-sided maze with a spider (8 legs) in the center. There are five layers to the maze, again depicting the common 5 vs. 8 theme. There is no way to get out of the maze unless the spider breaks down the walls on the last layer ("Break down these walls for me")

Next page has the familiar header with the key of B minor and time signature 4/8 shown.

Page 8 has the header for panic attack (C minor and 5/8).

The next page has two headers, one in D minor and 6/8 for never enough and one in E minor and 7/8 for sacrificed sons. Never Enough is the first song NOT in the time signature denoted by its track number. (Saying TROAE is in 1/8 and TALW is in 2/8 is scraping by on a technicallity, but still)

The opposite page shows an OCTOpus with FIVE fish and an OCTAgonal sign with the Dream Theater Logo inscribed.

The following page has F minor and 8/8 for Octavarium parts I and II.

Opposite this page is a sheet of grid paper with a very complex structure mapped out (The builing that IS an Octavarium?). At first glance it is obviously the same as the symbol on the CD itself, an OCTOgon with a FIVE-pointed star inscribed. Dimensions are given on a 5:8 scale. The dimensions are a 29 foot and 6 and 3/4 inch square, with right triangles with legs of 8 feet 8 inches cut off. (The 8'8" is actually not explicitly given. Instead they chose to give a hypotenuse of 12'3" which yields, using basic trig, sides of 8'8"). There are spaces in each wall of dimensions 5'8" (again, five vs. eight. these dimensions are also not explicitly stated, but if you take the measure of each square and multiply by 3 you get 5'8"). The rest of the structure's drawing's significance escapes me. Any help here would be appreciated.
Of course, there is one more aspect not specefically related to the structure itself. Around the edge (starting at the left most side and going clockwise) the F Lydian scale is spelled out. Inside the walls are the accidentals that would be present should it be a chromatic scale, one for each point of the star.

On the following page the remainder of 8vm's lyrics are written out (parts III through V).

The final page shows the same boy as the first page, holding the other side of the can and twine telephone, this time talking into it instead of listening. To his right is the list of the five members of DT and what they perform on the CD. The "telephone line" leads off of the right side of the page, symbolizing that it leads back to the first page. Note also that the boy at the beginning is passive (listening) while the boy at the end is active (talking). This follows the album's theme of waking up from a "catatonic sleep."

The inside of the jewel case under the CD slot has an 8 ball with the Majesty logo where the 8 should be.

The back side of the jewel case has a keyboard with the 8 track names on their respective white keys, and the members on their 5 black keys.

a few more things (the following, sadly, were not my own thoughts. Citations to the peeps on MP.com board)

the heartbeat from "These Walls" to "I Walk Beside You" is going at 58 bpm.

the ending to "Panic Attack" is repeated 8 times.

Bell at beginning of "The Answer" tolls 8 times

The 3 birds in the dominoe scene could represent Charles Dominici, Kevin Moore, and Derek Sherinian. Also note that 8-5 is 3.

I have not looked in to the hidden images everyone's talking about, so that'll be added later.

That's not everything though. No Bohemian Rhapsody. No She's So Heavy bit. No, well, none of the musical nuggets that have been discussed.

We need all the main thoughts put into one post in BIG BOLD print in some very easy to read COLOR  so that it stands out and is easy to read and can be a post linked to etc.... Oh yeah, and complete too, not just the cover stuff.

I don't count musical references as nuggets, they're called quotes.

okay then, requesting someone with more motivation and time than me write out the "quotes"

ORIGINAL: dracomordag

I don't count musical references as nuggets, they're called quotes.

tell that to mike :)
 
and the ending of panic attack is repeated at least 9 times.  not 8.  there's a faint last one.  and if you count the original hit that was copied, that means that chord is hit 10 times.  10 is also the sum of 8 and 2.  8 minus 2 is 6, and 6DOIT in a 4DORE, so this leaves 2 left which everyone knows that 2 become 1, which is the loneliest number, and the person on the back of the liner notes is by herself, so that explains what she is doing there.

How about this as a nugget? All 5 members played on the last DT record ;)
 
 
EDIT: That is not a real nugget, I have more of a life than to sit and overanalyse something that isn't meant to be over-thought about.

ORIGINAL: Bazeroth

How about this as a nugget? All 5 members played on the last DT record ;)
 
 
EDIT: That is not a real nugget, I have more of a life than to sit and overanalyse something that isn't meant to be over-thought about.

 
That isn't a real nugget?  wow.  i thought it was.  you really had me going there!
 
And i'm glad you have more of a life than to sit and think about this album, which i think DT DID intend us to think about. 
 
Thanks for trying to make us feel stupid!

OK, I was trying to read the thread to see if this had already been posted, but every time I finish a page, there is another one at the end of the list!! So screw it, here are a couple things I found in the title track:
 
at 14:00 - the words are "This is where we came in"
 
During "Intervals": Before each of the eight stanzas, the number of the stanza is spoken in the left channel: Root, Second, Third, Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Seventh, Octave.

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

ORIGINAL: dracomordag

I don't count musical references as nuggets, they're called quotes.

Well, they are nuggets.

I'm working on a big compilation post. It will be in two parts.

Part one: Musical Nuggets heard on the album.
Part two: Nuggets seen on throughout the album cover and even previous covers that seem to connect.

...make that three parts...

Part three: Factual bits such as Jordan's steel guitar bits as opposed to the Continuum.

Good luck man. Plz start a new thread for it and let this thread die. Every 20 posts its the same nugget revisited.

"I'm in a glass case of emotion."

ORIGINAL: faizoff

Good luck man. Plz start a new thread for it and let this thread die. Every 20 posts its the same nugget revisited.

I was thinking we ought to start a new thread, link to this one, and see if Wey will lock this one so it can be referenced easily but not added to so it gets even harder to keep up with it all. I'll email you when I get finished with it. I'm waiting on a phone call so I don't have much else to do today. lol.

I'm about a third of the way done compiling all the info and then I'll have to arrange it in the right orders, in the right sections etc.

ORIGINAL: chrisallen

ORIGINAL: dracomordag

I don't count musical references as nuggets, they're called quotes.

tell that to mike :)

and the ending of panic attack is repeated at least 9 times.  not 8.  there's a faint last one.  and if you count the original hit that was copied, that means that chord is hit 10 times.  10 is also the sum of 8 and 2.  8 minus 2 is 6, and 6DOIT in a 4DORE, so this leaves 2 left which everyone knows that 2 become 1, which is the loneliest number, and the person on the back of the liner notes is by herself, so that explains what she is doing there.

 
 
yeah, i got to that too, but to explain the 2 to 1 thing, there's the andromeda album called II=I, so i used that

Holy cow there is a lot of crap to sort through in this thread.... 

the message goes like a circle around the booklet. balanced are the balls on the cover. spheres are the balls in the cover . these balls collide. and the story ends where it began: the message ends where the booklet starts. thats gotta be related to the thing of TROAE being actually the last song if you listen 8V in a row

I was listening to the song before coming here and thought of that too. It really makes sense!

of course it does, im GOD

Someone should compile all the nuggets and post them in a new thread. 

ORIGINAL: mesaofrio

Someone should compile all the nuggets and post them in a new thread. 

 
someone should read the 20 posts in this thread that already said this

ORIGINAL: mesaofrio

Someone should compile all the nuggets and post them in a new thread. 

Read my post just three or four posts up.... That's exactly what I am doing. :)

Oh, sorry. Didn't see it. 

I have all the musical nuggets in order so section one is complete. Now working on the artwork section. I got my phonecall so I had to stop for a while. Back on track now. 

i will say this again when you post that: SICK

ORIGINAL: blu4ea

I'm still wondering what the deal is w/ those "footstep" sounds at the beginning of TROAE.
Any ideas??

 
No timmy (t3h AVATAR)...Actually I started to ask myself the same thing....what it would be

Artwork section is now done. I'll have to do the other two sections later (not nearly as much work with them). The new thread will probably not be up until tomorrow as I want to coordinate this with faizoff since he started this thread and probably didn't forsee the mess it became. 

U guys notice the sounds clips of the previous songs on Octavarium?  Not sure if it was posted before,too lazy to check.   Probably was.

Anyone remember what Mr Portnoy says on the Birthday video?
 
he says something like "this is the beginning of the end", what was he refering to?

"To Invent You Need A Good Imagination And A Pile Of Junk" - Thomas Edison

Hi! I'm newbie in this forum, but after listening many times Octavarium I must say a couple of things.
The album is great, not awesome in my opinion, but finally this album has pushed me to appreciate DT more than ever, specially the epic Octavarium song.
I've been discovering some details about the influences of the album.
Maybe it's been already said, sorry it's not my intention to repeat it again, but has anyone notice the intro bassline in Panic Attack is really similar to the one played by Geddy Lee in his Driven song solo?

I have also noticed in the middle of the song Octavarium, there's a point where LaBrie sings, This is were we came in, or something like that. Man! this is taken from Pink Floyd's album the Wall!
I admire the huge quantity of references to other groups Octavarium has

ORIGINAL: metalgod80

Anyone remember what Mr Portnoy says on the Birthday video?

he says something like "this is the beginning of the end", what was he refering to?

"You're kidding me, right?

You're not kidding me?

Motha Fuckkuh." 

ORIGINAL:drumpreist
By the way...the piano exit of TRoAE and entrance on TALW with the birds chirping had hints of the beginning of Disappear from 6DOIT. Just my hearing, maybe?

TALW totally reminded me of Disappear because of that.
 
All the OV nuggets I found have already been posted so I wont repeat any.
 
BTW, this is not an OV nugget but has anyone noticed that SFAM ends how SDOIT begins (static) and how SDOIT ends TOT begins (that kind of long keybord note thingy).

On my copy of I&W, Pull Me Under just cuts off at the end.  Is this a nugget?
 
Oh, and who's better, Kevin or Derek?
 
 
 

-Avatar courtesy of Johnny Pixels at the JREF forum

mesavox: Please post here when you create the new thread. Thanks for doing this!

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

Hey mesavox, just post it whenever you're ready man. No holding back from my side. This isnt really my thread, had the idea to make one mega post as well but like I said I'm musically retarded wouldnt recognize time signatures of a fart.

If ya need any help just ask.

"I'm in a glass case of emotion."

Does anyone know if Wey is willing to lock this thread when this is done? I have finished it but we would need future comments to be in that thread or it will turn into a mess agian...

Anyway, here it is.... Hopefully people will work with it.

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=898674&mpage=1&key=&#898674

ORIGINAL: mesavox

Does anyone know if Wey is willing to lock this thread when this is done? I have finished it but we would need future comments to be in that thread or it will turn into a mess agian...

 
PM/email him and ask!!

I never submitted the whole system of my opinions to the creed of any party of men whatever in religion, in philosophy, in politics, or in anything else where I was capable of thinking for myself. Such an addiction is the last degradation of a free and moral agent.
-Thomas Jefferson, letter to Francis Hopkinson, March 13, 1789

ORIGINAL: Bogie

ORIGINAL: Dutch Beard
else has this --> Octavarium 9:45, it reminds me of "shores of Avalon, (Mullmuzzler)"

I'm reminded of Shores as well during this part.

Thats the first thing I thought of when I heard it.

Has anyone mentioned that 8V is a spiral?
 
8:5 is along the series of ratios which approaches phi.

HOLY THREAD BUMPS BATMAN!!!!!!!!!!1

You don't know how fast you were going? So then I can write whatever I want on the ticket then, huh? 

Well I'm not gonna start a new one!

I don't know if you posted that already, but in "The Glass Prison" the bells are repeated for 8 times.

Octavarium has the word octa in its title.... octa means 8

i hate this thread

ok..this might be the Resurection Thread that we never expected, and also..we never wanted, but still it's ok

The Myung thread needs to be resurrected

You don't know how fast you were going? So then I can write whatever I want on the ticket then, huh? 

It's EASY not to click on a thread. EASY. I just did it to like 20 threads on page one.

Sorry for bumping this tread. I just realized golden spiral ratio on the bus and thought I'd throw it in here.

i'm suscribed to this thread

I created this thread and now wish I hadnt 

"I'm in a glass case of emotion."

I want to marry this thread

The system's for sale.

http://octavarium.suddenlaunch3.com
Octaforum - Finnish Dream Theater community

ya

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pageartist.cfm?bandID=607337

listen TO MY BAND

ORIGINAL: Honma

Jesus... you people have too much fucking time on your hands. All I heard on the new album was far, far too much rehashing of riffs, melodies and phrasing. I for one, am sick of it. I don't care how "cool" some people think it is, it's tired, and dull now. DT obviously have the ability to write new shit, I just wish they would.

Call it "call back" or call TSD a "sequel" to TGP, that's fine, but for me, I'm sick of hearing the same little "nuggets" over and over again.

That said, I'm disappointed with this album. It's got it's moments, but on a whole, this would've fit perfectly after FII... and I hate FII.

<waits for the backlash>

Oh man, i totally agree.
however, i kinda noticed one day while looking at the liner notes of the album that the first two songs are parts 6 and 7 of the song octavarium. i think

ORIGINAL: BiGG_Perm

ORIGINAL: Honma

Jesus... you people have too much fucking time on your hands. All I heard on the new album was far, far too much rehashing of riffs, melodies and phrasing. I for one, am sick of it. I don't care how "cool" some people think it is, it's tired, and dull now. DT obviously have the ability to write new shit, I just wish they would.

Call it "call back" or call TSD a "sequel" to TGP, that's fine, but for me, I'm sick of hearing the same little "nuggets" over and over again.

That said, I'm disappointed with this album. It's got it's moments, but on a whole, this would've fit perfectly after FII... and I hate FII.

<waits for the backlash>

Oh man, i totally agree.
however, i kinda noticed one day while looking at the liner notes of the album that the first two songs are parts 6 and 7 of the song octavarium. i think

I'm gonna shorten my point of view about this "rehashing" argument to two words: I dissagree.

moving on.


The Root of All Evil is not movements VI and VII of Octavarium, it's movements VI and VII of the AA saga (found on 6 Degrees in Glass Prison, and on ToT in This Dying Soul).

They obviously intended (or at least recognized) that this would happen though, because it fits so well with the theme of looping found throughout the album.

Never joy without the sorrow, never beauty without the fear
Never light without the darkness, the silver lining still ringing clear
And as the lightning flashes across the sky...
All I see is my reflection in your eyes.

haha oh man theres alot of number games in this one, man its just insane they can think of this stuff

i have posted this for about 5 times and nobody ever wanted to answer me... don't u also have the impression that the jp riff of troa starting at 1:00 is very similar to the beginning of burning my soul? with the difference that bms is not as fast and played firstly as a jm bass line and then in power chords by jp...
please give me ur opinion on that!!!