Well, I haven't read all of this thread, but I did most of it. I must say, either some of you people have a lot more time on your hands than me... or just a lot smater . Seen some cool observations though, and some, well, people trying to look for things and making them happen. Anyway, in my spare time at a stop light I was staring at the back cover and noticed that each band member is in ABC order (according to last name) starting with James and going to Jordan on the black keys of the keyboard. Yeah, not hardly as cool as half of this stuff on here, but I do what I can .

Does anyone notice that Portnoy and Rudess are seperated from the rest of the band on the back cover?  I think they also represent the two dominoes that are tombstones with the three other crows or band members flying above.  This reminds me the whole "Paul is Dead" motif that The Beatles started.  Moreover, I think the 5 and 8 have something to do with Kabala Numerology.  It seems to me that Portnoy is referencing some Jewish mysticism with these numbers.  These numbers both stand for seperate dispositions of people.  These are just my guesses.  Anyone else agree?  And I still don't know who that girl is on the back cover.
-BKJ

I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

I gurantee there has got to be some backwards masking or hidden tracks on this cd as well.  We better start checking for those too.  lol.
 
-BKJ

I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

Was this mentioned? The black billiard ball on the picture under the disc has the majesty logo where the 8 should have been.

Look, I know there's a million and a half numbers to play with and just as many nuggets...
 
But the 5 represents the 5 members of the band...

If you pay close attention, the background for tracks 5 and 8 are different from the rest. Tracks 1,2,3,4,6,7 have all the same "wallpaper" or "Background"

The 3 birds on the domino pic are the 3 original members: JM JP and MP they are looking down on 4 tombs
1. Chriss colins (original dt singer)
2. Charlie Domicci (2nd dt singer)
3. Kevin Moore (1st Keyboardist)
4.Derek Sherinian (2nd keyboardist)

The boy on the first and final page represents us.
Us listening to the album THEN us discussing the album on the message boards.

Anyone know what that language is on track 7?  I'm guessing it is Arabic.  But what if it is Farsi, the language they speak in Iran.  Farsi has 5 letters.  Maybe it is Pakistani.  Pakistan has 8 letters in it.  This is obviously stretched, but i am interested since i am linguist.

I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

Anyone notice the fingerprints on some of the pages?

(root of all evil between 3 and 4th stanza)
(above the fish picture)
(octavarium lyric sheet on the left)
(in texure are last boy page)

I will feel really stupid if these are MY fingerprints...but I think they are in the actual pages.

Can someone else confirm?

ORIGINAL: SeasOfSilence

Anyone notice the fingerprints on some of the pages?

(root of all evil between 3 and 4th stanza)
(above the fish picture)
(octavarium lyric sheet on the left)
(in texure are last boy page)

I will feel really stupid if these are MY fingerprints...but I think they are in the actual pages.

Can someone else confirm?

Dude, those are your fingerprints...

ORIGINAL: BKJ2005

Does anyone notice that Portnoy and Rudess are seperated from the rest of the band on the back cover?  I think they also represent the two dominoes that are tombstones with the three other crows or band members flying above.  This reminds me the whole "Paul is Dead" motif that The Beatles started.  Moreover, I think the 5 and 8 have something to do with Kabala Numerology.  It seems to me that Portnoy is referencing some Jewish mysticism with these numbers.  These numbers both stand for seperate dispositions of people.  These are just my guesses.  Anyone else agree?  And I still don't know who that girl is on the back cover.
-BKJ

This entire thread may be the funniest thread ever in this Forum. But I have to chime in to reply to the post quoted above.

You aren't serious BKJ, are you? The band photos represent the black keys on the keyboard. The split between Petrucci and Portnoy is because the black keys are seperated by two white keys (look at the keyboard graphic on the back card of the CD). Portnoy and Rudess are on their own only because alphabetically they come after the rest. LaBrie, Myung, Petrucci, Portnoy, Rudess. Alphabetical.

TKH

WHY THEY GOTTA BE BLACK AND WHITE KEYS???


THERE 8 WHITE KEYS AND 5 BLACKS KEYS, WHYS THE WHITE PEOPLE ALWAYS GOTTA HATE?

chillin @ jp forum since 2003

To think, rather than using our collective talents and brain power to improve the world around us, we spend our time concocting far-out theories about a couple little details out of the album and its artwork

Check out video covers of some of MP Forum's favorite artists :D

Everytime somebody complains about Opeth's vocals, a little part of me dies inside.

I understand that they represent keys.  But can you explain why there are dominoes that look like tombstones, and only 3 crows?  Thats a little odd woudlnt you say?  The two tombstones must represent the other 2 band members.

I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

How's this for an idea: you're most likely seeing something that was never intended.  I personally don't think the dominos look like gravestones at all and when I first read the proposition that they were headstones, I thought that was kind of silly.  As for the crows, remember that for aesthetic reasons, things that occur in threes are usually much more pleasing to the eye than two or four...

Check out video covers of some of MP Forum's favorite artists :D

Everytime somebody complains about Opeth's vocals, a little part of me dies inside.

ORIGINAL: BKJ2005

I understand that they represent keys.  But can you explain why there are dominoes that look like tombstones, and only 3 crows?  Thats a little odd woudlnt you say?  The two tombstones must represent the other 2 band members.

Can you please tell me what you are smoking, and where I can get some? I think you are reading way too much into the artwork.

TKH

ORIGINAL: xenowang

How's this for an idea: you're most likely seeing something that was never intended.  I personally don't think the dominos look like gravestones at all and when I first read the proposition that they were headstones, I thought that was kind of silly.  As for the crows, remember that for aesthetic reasons, things that occur in threes are usually much more pleasing to the eye than two or four...

I think there are little tidbits that MP deliberately had inserted into the artwork (which he worked on with Hugh Syme); he was all on about the "whole package" before the release for a reason. I suspect that the "whole package" has hidden meaning, profound or not, like a riddle of sorts. So some of these points may be totally random and stupid, but I am sure that there is intention behind the artwork, and some of these points, while being symbols and nuggets in their own right may lead us to something bigger. Who knows what plans the Man has laid out, but there is more than visual appeal to the artwork for sure.

I thought of this at work while looking at the booklet (i know i get a lot done) but then i realized that Majesty, which became Dream Theater first came together in 1985 and this album is released 20 years after the band first came to be. Maybe the 8 and 5 represents that in some way? 

ORIGINAL: Chris_2112
I think there are little tidbits that MP deliberately had inserted into the artwork

 
Like maybe ....an OCTOPUS and a STOP sign?????!!   LOLLOL!

Do i really have to get into an english lesson in what crows represent, or can i just avoid  the cliche' that they symbolize.  Moreover it is quite obvious that the dominoes are coming out of the ground.  Under the influence or not, these are obviously tombstones.  (Hence the crows representing death).  Moreover, why would you downplay the booklets meaning , when it is obviously a huge sugnificance to the album.  There are 3 crows and 2 dominoes.  Why?  Just say why and I will be happy.

I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

This is page 8!!! OMG! Come on guyz, if there is an ultimate nugget on this album, this is the right moment to post it (actually the ideal would be the 8th post)! 

Better to save the mystery than surrender to the secret

ORIGINAL: snowdog
And that really equals 7.986475

Yes, but if you reverse the number after the decimal to read "574" and "689," then, implementing 5 (DT members), and 7 (the # of digits in "7.986475"), you get:
 
(((689 - 574) / 5) - 8) - 7 = 8
 
Also, my original formula can actually work without the extra ) you added.

My CD Collection and Concert List

ORIGINAL: zedsdead

Don't think anyone mentioned the intro / ending is very "Welcome to the Machine (Pink Floyd) as is the space between These Walls and I Walk Beside You (Dark Side of the Moon)

 
well I did mention that, and actually it was the first nugget I discovered for myself on the very first listen.
 
ok this topic's been a headache to me ! DUH ! , here's my final thoughts ..
 
it's somehow scary to hear the album repeating itself, u know the final note is the very first note.. secondly the trapped inside thing , I guess that's us , we are really trapped inside this album , the Octavarium is trapped in my head I can't stop listening to it ! I can't hear anything else !
 
I hope this is not a good bye sign

ORIGINAL: Rifugium

ORIGINAL: snowdog
And that really equals 7.986475

Yes, but if you reverse the number after the decimal to read "574" and "689," then, implementing 5 (DT members), and 7 (the # of digits in "7.986475"), you get:

(((689 - 574) / 5) - 8) - 7 = 8
 
Also, my original formula can actually work without the extra ) you added.

FUCKKKK STOP IT GUYS !!! ARRGHHHH

-you know , JPS guitar fret numbers are 24 , 24 / 3 = 8 OCTAVARIUM .. WOW

-24 is also ... 24 hours a day let's divide it by 3 as we divided the album itself so we have 8 !
but we all know that we work 5 days a week , so WOW ! Octavarium and the five members again

I can't think of anymore , ! UH I'm tired

p.s. EDIT : UGHHHHH and guess what , this is the 8th page and 8th post   SOMEBODY GET ME OUTA HEEEEERE !!!

This thread has run it's course. There have been some excellent observations and some probably coincidental ones moreover it's now come to the stage where anything to do with the number 8 is being posted.

I'll probably compile all the good and useful info and make one post.

"Whoever should be found guilty of burning coal shall suffer the loss of his head." - Edward I in 1306 for pollution control.

Hey... something I noticed about the title track yesterday. There's a guitar riff that stars around 13:48, and it sounded so familiar to me, I could've sworn that they would break into something else that I had in mind... but when they didn't, and they didn't for the entire song, I began to wonder why I was hearing this other riff. Then it came to me last night that it seemed to me that it came from the Majesty demos. Sure enough, this morning I check them out and the riff sounds like the riff they play in Vital Star around 3:41-4:00  although in a different key. I was expecting them to play the riff that starts at 4:00 at that point.
 
At least it sounds that way to me

ORIGINAL: faizoff

I'll probably compile all the good and useful info and make one post.

That would be awesome! Maybe a lot of work but that would be the ultimate nugget checklist.

ORIGINAL: Rifugium

Also, my original formula can actually work without the extra ) you added.

If the ")" is not there like in your initial post you are raising the denominator to the 8th power and not the whole fraction.  Thus you will come out with very very small number.

ORIGINAL: BKJ2005

Do i really have to get into an english lesson in what crows represent, or can i just avoid  the cliche' that they symbolize.  Moreover it is quite obvious that the dominoes are coming out of the ground.  Under the influence or not, these are obviously tombstones.  (Hence the crows representing death).  Moreover, why would you downplay the booklets meaning , when it is obviously a huge sugnificance to the album.  There are 3 crows and 2 dominoes.  Why?  Just say why and I will be happy.

The dominoes are not tombstones, they are obviously a depiction of what part of stonehenge originally looked like before centuries of weather wore the details off the rocks. The crows are there because everyone knows that crows like to shit on rocks. Also if you look at the architecture diagram upside down (or the CD itself) you will see the hidden satanic message.

did anyone notice on the front of the cd case, the octave is between B and B, and the back, the octave is between F and F. THE MIGHTY TRITONE
i dont think this has been said, but im too lazy to look through 8 pages of mathematical equations about the number 8.
 
but the tritone is hugely important in the history of music, it basically is a huge foundation for everything. btw, in the old days, (ancient greece) the tritone was considered the devil's interval. hehehhehe

A small point, probably a mistake, but worth mentioning not all the listed track lengths on the back are the actual track lengths.

ORIGINAL: BKJ2005

Do i really have to get into an english lesson in what crows represent, or can i just avoid  the cliche' that they symbolize.  Moreover it is quite obvious that the dominoes are coming out of the ground.  Under the influence or not, these are obviously tombstones.  (Hence the crows representing death).  Moreover, why would you downplay the booklets meaning , when it is obviously a huge sugnificance to the album.  There are 3 crows and 2 dominoes.  Why?  Just say why and I will be happy.

See, the thing is, I am not MP nor am I Hugh Syme, nor a member of DT. I guess those are the only people who could really tell you the significance of the crows and the tombstone-like dominoes. But to make the correlation between the number of crows and the number of dominoes with the members of the band is far-fetched, IMO.

If we find out the true meaning of the "5:8" theme that is all over the artwork, then we may know most of the answers. I see the dominoes page as just another piece of artwork with the 5:8 theme and nothing more.

TKH

couple more I dunno if they've been mentioned but I'll add them to this topic.
 
The rythm part that JP plays after the bridge on Sacrificed Sons is very similar, atleast in feel to a section in Beyond This Life.
 
The MUSE-Panic Attack section re-occurs as a rythm/background part during the proggy responsive vocal section of the title track if you block out the lead melody you'll notice.
 
Kyle 

Before starting a NEW TOPIC, did you use the SEARCH FUNCTION?
allmediareviews.blogspot.com
angra1's "New Prog Umbrella" topic

ORIGINAL: Phil_The_Rodent

A small point, probably a mistake, but worth mentioning not all the listed track lengths on the back are the actual track lengths.

Put the CD in an actual CD player and watch the time read out.......there are hidden "countdown" sections to the tracks in question.  Their purpose within the ‘concept’ of the album is very interesting. Simply put, they represent accidentals.
 
Look on the back of the CD case… each track corresponds to a note on the fingerboard.  Naturally so, there would need to be notes in between certain songs.
 
Hence:
1. TROAE
                   F#
2. TALW
                   G#     
3. TW
                   A#
4. IWBY
 
5. PA
                   C#
6. NE
                   D#
7. SS
 
8. 8v
 
* note that only songs 1 2 3 5 and 6 are labeled the incorrect time.

"sjjvq puv ssv hw Lva!" - Twiddlenutz

Something else I just found out.....the accidentals are actual in pitch.....lol
 
That is why there is a bend in the pitch of the last chord in TALW.
 
I think it would be overstating it, but DAMMIT these guys are fawkin amazing!
 
R.

"sjjvq puv ssv hw Lva!" - Twiddlenutz

ORIGINAL: Zepp3lin

WHY THEY GOTTA BE BLACK AND WHITE KEYS???


THERE 8 WHITE KEYS AND 5 BLACKS KEYS, WHYS THE WHITE PEOPLE ALWAYS GOTTA HATE?

Yeah!
And how you win at 8-ball? The WHITE ball has to sink the BLACK ball!! That's why I luuuuuvvs bowling. And what's up with the olives people? I went to the market and the BLACK olives were in a can, BUT da GREEN olives get to be in a glass jar! Why the hate.

"Music is just a release of all that stuff inside that's trying to kill you. I think just — life is so difficult. The thing I love about music is that you can take painful, deep things that hurt, and turn them into something beautiful." ~ Ray LaMontagne

From my post in the "Octavarium Reviews/Comments" thread:
 
Anyone notice the drum part for the bridge of I Walk Beside You is like, a sped up version of the One Last Time drum part? I usually wouldn't post about it, but the song begins with ticking just like SFAM and maybe they also put in this reference.

ORIGINAL: Gohi

From my post in the "Octavarium Reviews/Comments" thread:

Anyone notice the drum part for the bridge of I Walk Beside You is like, a sped up version of the One Last Time drum part? I usually wouldn't post about it, but the song begins with ticking just like SFAM and maybe they also put in this reference.

I knew it reminded me of another songs but I chalked that up Mike's playing.  Eve has a drum part that is also in Another Day.  It doesn't mean they are the connected somehow.  Neil Peart has a ride cymbal pattern that has appeared in many songs, but I wouldn't think they are all connected.

OMG I FOUND A NUGET:

MY RANKEENS:

1. SFAM
2. TOT
3. A&W
4. AWAK
5. FII
6. SDOIT
7. WDADU
8. OCTAVARIUEMEMS

COINSIDENS? I THINK NOT.






Relax people, it's a joke. 

http://www.nickbogovich.com

There are 5 official live releases.

1993 Live at the Marquee
1995 A Change of Seasons
1998 Once in a Livetime
2001 Live Scenes From New York
2004 Live at Budokan