Nuggets on Octavarium

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Dylan90125
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 6:25 AM
Hey, I don't know if this has been pointed out before, hell I can't even really say if this is a nugget. Anyways, I think we all agree that I walk beside you has some U2 resemblences. Dream Theater recorded Octavarium in Hit Studios New York, the same place where u2 has recorded!

Yeah, i know, I suck....
<message edited by Dylan90125 on Monday, June 13, 2005 6:26 AM>
"If you're not confused, you don't understand..."

JRuless
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 7:41 AM
Don't know if it is said before in this thread (ive not read the whole)
but:
 
- inside the booklet the word "octavarium" appears 8 times
- on the gray pages (with the lyrics) ,hard to see, but if there are 8 faces sketched up. (rotate the booklet)
 
and why does James not sing what's in the booklet? The lyrics from TROAE are different (the for-last sentence) then what james sings.
in the text: "and the drive that keep burning deep inside"
"cast it all away"
 
James sings:
"The desires that keep burning deep inside"
"Cast them all away"
Like the text in part VI
 
So many recordingtime and overdubs, and still singing the wrong lines?
 
greetz..

thorbahn
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 7:49 AM
I'll clarify my James Labrie coma saga idea with some specific lyrics, since is was well received.
Also, read at the bottom for a new idea.

Disappear:

"As you lay there and watched me
Accepting the end
I knew you were scared
You were strong I was trying
I gave you my hand
I said it's okay letting go time to leave here
And I'll carry on
The best that I can without you here beside me
Let him come take you home"

Sounds to me like the person slipping into the coma is talking to a friend or family member, and telling them it's ok to go home and continue to live there life, he's trying as hard as he can to stay conscious.

Vacant: Picks up right where Disappear left off. Particularly:

"Hey you, Hey you
I'm right here
Conscience fading
Can't get through

She's losing control
What can I do
Her vacant eyes
Black holes
Am I losing you"

Seems the person has officially slipped into it.

Medicate (Awakening)

Quite obvious in it's subject matter, the person is waking up 30 years later.
Some lyrics connect it to Vacant specifically:

"Eyes open
But not getting through to me"
and
"Her vacant eyes
Black holes"

The person had their eyes open the whole time, apparently.

At the end of Medicate, although it seems it would have been a good time to have a happy ending of sorts, it sounds more like the person slipped away again.

"I feel the relapse
Can't break free
Eyes open
But not getting through to me"

That's all for now on that.

--------------------------

Also, one little hunch I had..just an idea.

Perhaps Someone Like Him, written by John Petrucci, is once again about John's father, like Another Day and Take Away My Pain.

Another Day - He's ill, possibly dying.
Take Away My Pain - Has died, the grief.
Someone Like Him - How his life is affecting John now.

I'm not sure, once again that was just an idea.

Consub
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 9:44 AM
Some of the speculation is getting a bit over-the-top, don't you think?

With all the speculation that Octavarium would be an retrospective on DT's career, just before release; when I first heard the song, I thought the "I" in "Someone like him" might be the band, Dream Theater itself. But of course thats out of the window, cus I can't relate Medicate.

The balls on the cover - is obviously an octave, but with an overlap. I was thinking that maybe if the pattern was |||||||\, it would have signified a full circle, but an arrangement like /||||||\ is weird. Maybe one of them is "looking out"? Or, it can be a circular thing, although its not really 3d.

I don't know, I might be talking nonsense...

DaNcEr Of EtErNiTy
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 11:44 AM
I just noticed something..I was watching a tv show about the DaVinci Code and something came up to my mind....
 
this might has been posted before but I don't care much....so here's the deal..we abreviate OCTAVARIUM as 8V and we know that "8" represents eight studio albums and "V" it's the number 5 in roman..buthere's another weird thingy that ..."8" could be the infinity symbol wich in the tarot, it represents the balance of forces; and the "V" represents victory...our abreviated way for octavarium means....eight victories...OUR NUGGET......
 
I'll get more nonsense ideas....eventually..lol

DrumBoySkim
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 11:50 AM
Ok, i was looking on the lyric pages to find these faces "sketched up", but couldn't come up with them at all... but after a while i found what appeared to be figures, like a dude standing with his arms crossed in front of him, it's vague, but easier to see if it's at arm's length... inbetween the 2 columns on TROAE, these walls, IWBY, neverenough and sacrificed sons, and the first page of 8vm.
 
Also, something i haven't seen mention of... that i almost wanna keep to myself in case it turns into something and i get some super nugget prize... open to the last lyric page, with full circle and intervals on it.  Turn it 90 degrees to the left, so the kid's string is pointing up.  now look right above the lyrics of full circle, the second and third stanzas... there's a little step thing, like a bar graph, and letters above it, the only ones i can make out so far are R  LR, but there's something else in the middle, i think, i'm about to go through and find other letters, maybe some word jumble they're playing...?

Kevman
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 11:57 AM
Forgive me if this has been brought up, but is there any chance that MP.com or another site could perhaps host a page (or add to FAQ) that lists the confirmed references on this album?
 
I'm not sure if MP has commented yet on all we've been talking about (on tour, I know), but some of the references are obvious, such as:
 
 - References to TGP and TDS on TROAE - both lyrically and musically.
 - The bell going eight times, the ticking clock from SFAM, heartbeat (I&W reference?)
 - Bohemian Rhapsody and Jingle Bells melodies in 8V
 
Otherwise, this thread could go on forever...not the worst thing, of course...
 
--Kev

abson
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 12:25 PM
It would be cooler if the name of the album was:
 
A STATE OF OCTAVARIUM
 
right?

mesavox
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 1:11 PM
Repetativeness abounds... VERY MUCH. lol


ORIGINAL: tbone93

Without flaming me, someone please convince me I am wrong!


Ok, Mike's XM interview. Go to the audio page and give it a listen. You will have no concerns about this being the last album ever after hearing it.

From him talking about looking at where they will go after the tour, to the finishing of the AA saga, he leaves no doubt that they are NOT done.

mesavox
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 1:27 PM

ORIGINAL: energy4anger



dude..... your post lacks smileys, so I dono if ur serious.
But my original one did too, so maybe that's the problem....
Point being, I was just playing around.




Yeah, I was really  more commenting to the post before yours anyway... :)

Anphobia
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 1:28 PM
Dunno if someone already mentioned it but at the end of Octavarium Mike plays the same drum fills as he does at the end of "In the name of god".
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GrahamK
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 1:37 PM
This thread is hilarious. Prog nerdism to the nth degree! Keep the crazy theories coming guys...
 
I think Mike died 8 months ago and the 5 represents the 5 point heart exploding move as seen in Kill Bill. Mike is communicating from beyond the grave to help us avenge his death!
 
This thread is beginning to remind me of that hilarious analysis of Metropolis and SFAM that showed up on the forum a few months back....priceless.

Chzn8r
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 1:58 PM


ORIGINAL: JRuless

Don't know if it is said before in this thread (ive not read the whole)
but:

- inside the booklet the word "octavarium" appears 8 times
- on the gray pages (with the lyrics) ,hard to see, but if there are 8 faces sketched up. (rotate the booklet)

and why does James not sing what's in the booklet? The lyrics from TROAE are different (the for-last sentence) then what james sings.
in the text: "and the drive that keep burning deep inside"
"cast it all away"

James sings:
"The desires that keep burning deep inside"
"Cast them all away"
Like the text in part VI

So many recordingtime and overdubs, and still singing the wrong lines?

greetz..


Ummm... that's probably a misprint in the book, which is MUCH more likely than the band letting this album go out with lyrical flops in the singing.

Then again, you could also just be hearing James incorrectly.
"Jack rabbit mister, spawn a new breed, of love-hungry pilgrims nobody's to feed
Show me a good man and I'll show you the door! The last hymn is sung and the Devil cries 'MORE!'"

wackybrak
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 4:30 PM

ORIGINAL: DrumBoySkim
Also, something i haven't seen mention of... that i almost wanna keep to myself in case it turns into something and i get some super nugget prize... open to the last lyric page, with full circle and intervals on it.  Turn it 90 degrees to the left, so the kid's string is pointing up.  now look right above the lyrics of full circle, the second and third stanzas... there's a little step thing, like a bar graph, and letters above it, the only ones i can make out so far are R  LR, but there's something else in the middle, i think, i'm about to go through and find other letters, maybe some word jumble they're playing...?

 
ok i think this is kind of big... im thinking maybe the bar graph is like one of those things in winamp where it measures the Db's and how the signal is. Maybe it's a certain part of music or something.
 
Also the whole James LAbrie coma thing is brilliant. Makes perfect sense to me. I'm just hoping MP comes on here and gives us some sort of direction or confirmation on whether there really is one massive super-nugget that will blow us away.

Thedon7622
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 4:31 PM
Okay.....this is a lot to read and I have to leave in a half hour and dont have much time.......so does anyone know what the the footsteps are supposed to signify in the beginning of TROAE?  Sorry if this was asked earlier.

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 4:41 PM

ORIGINAL: DaNcEr Of EtErNiTy

I just noticed something..I was watching a tv show about the DaVinci Code and something came up to my mind....

this might has been posted before but I don't care much....so here's the deal..we abreviate OCTAVARIUM as 8V and we know that "8" represents eight studio albums and "V" it's the number 5 in roman..buthere's another weird thingy that ..."8" could be the infinity symbol wich in the tarot, it represents the balance of forces; and the "V" represents victory...our abreviated way for octavarium means....eight victories...OUR NUGGET......

I'll get more nonsense ideas....eventually..lol

 
And those are force balls on the front page. :)
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

JayArr
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 7:50 PM
Hmmm.... Jordan had a fish on the right side of his keyboard during LaB.... hm hm... can't be a coincident.. hmmm.... nugget! 

moncholo
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 8:46 PM
did anyone say already that I&W was released June 7, 1992?

wetwired3x23
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 9:23 PM
I am not sure if anyone stated this yet, but has anybody noticed how the octave for "F" is althrough the images on the album.  The front cover is the octave for "F", the back pic of the case with the pics of the guys & titles for the tracks, the keys inside the case. If you turn the case with the keys on the bottom...yup "F" octave.  And the thing that led me to this was the pic with the star in the octagon.  All the letters and numbers but look carefully and you will see F1 and F2. No other letter is used twice in that pic. 
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moncholo
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 9:26 PM
im pretty sure that mike was going to post like "in 8V there's a nugget. the one who finds it first gets some signed hair or shit"
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
but we already found all the nuggets...... even the ones that THEY were'nt aware of......

Andreameda
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 10:10 PM
3 things to point out:
 
1st: There are not 5 but SIX fish in the water........if you look carefully to the right of the "aquatic page", at the bottom, you can actually see the tail of the sixth fish!
 
2nd: In the same scene, the sun is not right, you can see that the sun is at the top left BUT the shadow of the stop sign is also going towards the left!!
 
and 3rd: On almost every pages, if you turn the booklet 90 degrees to the left, you can actually see the R    RL thing a guy pointed out and if you look , for example, under the "captive inside of me" line on the these walls page, about 1/4" under, you can see the word "ballad". The word finishes at the "fading" line................
 
Thats alll for now
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moncholo
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 10:31 PM
^ nice DT/Andromeda avatar

SilenceNOmorE
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 10:51 PM
have i got a different booklet to everyone else??? I'm not seeing any of the stuff anybody is talking about... Can someon put a scan of one of these pages on the board?

blu4ea
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 11:09 PM

ORIGINAL: Thedon7622

Okay.....this is a lot to read and I have to leave in a half hour and dont have much time.......so does anyone know what the the footsteps are supposed to signify in the beginning of TROAE?  Sorry if this was asked earlier.

 
I've posted it a couple of times!!  http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=883728&mpage=12&key=# &
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=883728&mpage=5&key=&#.
 
The footsteps are very similar to the ending of SFAM {Hypnotherapist had slow steps, I believe} 
At least I know I'm not the only one!!

SilenceNOmorE
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 11:42 PM
OK, so a few nuggets I heard in the song Octavarium, although I don't know if they've been mentioned before...
 
During Full Circle, it has been established that MP or someone else is saying "root, second, third, etc" to correspond with each stanza of lyrics. Also, during each stanza, after hearing the number spoken, I can hear very faintly in the background other singing, which sounds alot like James. I think it alternates between two different melodies. Does anybody else have any clue what it is?
 
Also, when James is screaming "Trapped inside this Octavarium" beginning at 19:36 You can hear faintly in the right channel, either John, or  Jordan on Continuum, is playing the "Medicate Me" melody, at the same tempo as in "Medicate" beginning about 10:10 in the song.
 
I definitely hear some sections reminiscen ot The Dance of Eternity dotted through the song
 
 

Consub
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Monday, June 13, 2005 11:49 PM
What are all the backing voices during Intervals?

Also, does anyone else here "Trapped inside this OC-TA-FA-VA-RIUM? Or is it just me?

crazee_canuck
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:19 AM

ORIGINAL: faizoff

The Answer Lies Within

Again 8V vocal melody 2:42 - 2:48


I hear this at 2:56 - 3:02 on my CD.  Odd...although I think that I might know why.

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:24 AM

ORIGINAL: Andreameda

3 things to point out:

1st: There are not 5 but SIX fish in the water........if you look carefully to the right of the "aquatic page", at the bottom, you can actually see the tail of the sixth fish!

2nd: In the same scene, the sun is not right, you can see that the sun is at the top left BUT the shadow of the stop sign is also going towards the left!!

and 3rd: On almost every pages, if you turn the booklet 90 degrees to the left, you can actually see the R    RL thing a guy pointed out and if you look , for example, under the "captive inside of me" line on the these walls page, about 1/4" under, you can see the word "ballad". The word finishes at the "fading" line................

Thats alll for now

 
Thats not a fish tail.  It doesnt look anything like the other fish tails.  It might be a seashell or a pistol. lol.
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

SoulMine
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:40 AM

ORIGINAL: Thedon7622

Okay.....this is a lot to read and I have to leave in a half hour and dont have much time.......so does anyone know what the the footsteps are supposed to signify in the beginning of TROAE?  Sorry if this was asked earlier.

I'm not 100% certain because it's hard to hear, but I think I picked out 12 total steps. 12 footsteps - 12-step program...
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BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:55 AM
Ok...This is bizarre, but there is definately some subliminal pictures by these letter R's everyone is talking about.  Call me nuts, but i see Giraffes and maybe Portnoy's head on some 2 legged creature with a tail.  Seriously, there is something there that was intended.  Everyone please stare by these letter R's on every page and tell me if I am just seeing things.
 
-BKJ
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

Sam le Hobbit
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:27 AM
Hey......Did anyone noticed that when you divide 8 and 5, it gives you 1,6..

8:5 = 1,6.

And 1,6 is the first decimal of the "Golden Number", which represents perfect proportions in painting, Architecture etc etc.....

I think there's something interesting here !!!

Oh, BTW : Hello everyone

Sokrates
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:31 AM

ORIGINAL: BKJ2005

Ok...This is bizarre, but there is definately some subliminal pictures by these letter R's everyone is talking about.  Call me nuts, but i see Giraffes and maybe Portnoy's head on some 2 legged creature with a tail.  Seriously, there is something there that was intended.  Everyone please stare by these letter R's on every page and tell me if I am just seeing things.

-BKJ


Maybe someone can explain this R thing to me ´cause I can´t see anything special there.


liquiddreamx
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:17 AM
octavarium's awakening part tells th story of the film awakenings that's pretty obvious (30 years, higher dose parts) check this out:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099077/

moncholo
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:19 AM

ORIGINAL: Sam le Hobbit

Hey......Did anyone noticed that when you divide 8 and 5, it gives you 1,6..

8:5 = 1,6.

And 1,6 is the first decimal of the "Golden Number", which represents perfect proportions in painting, Architecture etc etc.....

I think there's something interesting here !!!

Oh, BTW : Hello everyone

 
1) Welcome to the forum
2)Shut up and pass the dope

LiesITellYouLies
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:30 AM
For some reason I still have no idea what a nugget is. Can someone let me in on what it is?
Why do I feel so numb? Is it to do with where I come from? Should this be fight or flight? I don't know why I'm constantly so uptight.

DrumBoySkim
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 8:52 AM
I haven't really found much more with the R's and L on the pages, but i get the feeling that it's hinting at something big, maybe the big nugz mike was talking about.  Cause think about it, the nug on ToT was aural, wouldn't you think to throw everyone off and do something different this one would be visual...
 
Note to people with blacklight, check the book and the disc out under them, i dont' have one, but that could be something...

DrumBoySkim
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:04 AM
Sorry, i wasn't quick enough to edit my last post, but on the pages before the one i mentioned the R's and L's on, you can see maybe one R, but the last page seems to have the most on it... also, the top left of the These Walls page seems to have the most detail in some other letters/numbers i'm seeing... a 5, maybe an S, a 10 on it's side.... lots of oooooo's in a row, a BF somewhere... can anyone else confirm this?

CoolSpectre777
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:09 AM
I'm not sure if anyone else said this, but did anyone ever figure out with the "30 years say we're in this together So Open your Eyes" line in Scarred ment? That line is pretty close to the one in 8v and i could never could think why they said 30 years in Awake, besides beign lyrical.  Any ideas?

PullMeUnder
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:49 AM
By the way, I just wondering: What is the AA saga? Have never heard of it before...

YtseBadd
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:02 AM
It's also something that has been in the news recently:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=818244

This, of course, happened after DT finished the album, so it's not releated to this particular situation.  Here's a few examples of various awakenings over the years:

AWAKENINGS
Other people who have suddenly "awakened" after comas or long periods of semiconsciousness.
Tracy Gaskill, 30 - She suffered internal and head injuries when her pickup truck rolled over on a Winfield, Ark., highway in September 2002. She has been at a long-term nursing facility since the accident. In April, she began speaking and swallowing. Her improvement began gradually about a year and a half ago, and she continues to make progress.


Donald Herbert, 43 - The Buffalo, N.Y., firefighter emerged from a near-comatose state last month. He was injured during a 1995 fire when a roof collapsed and ripped away his oxygen mask. On April 30, he talked with his family for 14 hours, then fell into a 30-hour sleep. He has communicated since then and has had moments of clarity, but not at the level he had on April 30. His road to recovery will be long: He is blind, needs a wheelchair and has no short-term memory. Herbert will undergo extensive physical and speech therapy in hopes of more improvement.


Sarah Scatlin, 38 - Hit by a drunken driver as she walked to her car in 1984, she had been in a coma for 20 years when she began talking and regaining her memory in February. For years, she could only blink her eyes - once for "no," twice for "yes." She is at the University of Kansas Medical Center, where she continues to improve.


Kelly Anne Barker, 35 - Barker, of Pontiac, Mich., was admitted as a "Jane Doe" after she was hit by a pickup and suffered extensive brain injuries in September 2003. She was identified nine days later and was moved to a nursing facility by her family after being diagnosed as being in a persistent vegetative state. But by that Thanksgiving, she was sitting up and speaking with family. She is receiving therapy.


Terry Wallis, 39 - The Mountain View, Ark., man was in a truck crash in 1984 that left him paralyzed and in a vegetative state for 19 years. On June 11, 2003, after two years of treatment with an anti-depressant drug, he spoke. He continues to receive speech and physical therapy at Baptist Medical Center in Little Rock.


Gary Dockery, 43 - Dockery, a Tennessee policeman who was shot in the head in 1988, spent seven years grunting and nodding to questions, then started speaking normally in 1996 after a course of intravenous Valium. He cracked jokes and chatted with his family for 18 hours before slipping back into silence. He died the next year of a blood clot on his lung.


STRAT
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:08 AM

ORIGINAL: PullMeUnder

By the way, I just wondering: What is the AA saga? Have never heard of it before...

 
Here ya go PullMeUnder.
 
It started on the Six Degrees Album with The Glass Prison. If you have the CD you will see that the song is dedicated to Bill W. Then on ToT This Dying Soul was the 2nd song that was also dedicated to Bill W. and now on Octavarium we have he Root Of All Evil.
 
The following is direct from the FAQ about the meaning of The Glass Prison. The FAQ can be very informative. Use it!
 
MP: It's about battling addiction and recovery and those were some things that I have dealt with in my personal life over the past few years. All three of the movements are written directly about the first three steps in twelve step recovery of Alcoholics Anonymous. So the first step in the first section of the song is admitting being powerless, the second step is needing the help of others, came to believe a power greater than ourselves to restore sanity. The third section is being willing to turn your life over to a higher power and handing over your will. So the three sections are directly out of the first three steps in AA.

Matika
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:11 AM
If you put the CD in the CD-player and hit the button with the green arrow (that points to the right) music starts playing  amazing

try doing that with the CD.

PullMeUnder
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 10:18 AM
Thanks a lot STRAT!
29/9, I can't wait!
(DT in Stockholm)!

moronDeTh
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 11:48 AM
HOLY FREAKIN CRAP.  it's called OCTAvarium and it has 8 songs on it!!!!!11!!1one11!!

ZirconBlue
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:55 PM

ORIGINAL: liquiddreamx

octavarium's awakening part tells th story of the film awakenings that's pretty obvious (30 years, higher dose parts) check this out:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099077/

 
Damn!  I had the same thought on my way to work this morning, but you beat me to it.
-Avatar courtesy of Johnny Pixels at the JREF forum

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:25 PM

ORIGINAL: DrumBoySkim

I haven't really found much more with the R's and L on the pages, but i get the feeling that it's hinting at something big, maybe the big nugz mike was talking about.  Cause think about it, the nug on ToT was aural, wouldn't you think to throw everyone off and do something different this one would be visual...

Note to people with blacklight, check the book and the disc out under them, i dont' have one, but that could be something...

 
Turn the booklet so the string from the tin can is pointing north.  Look at the R's.  Stare for long time.  You will see a dual represented picture of what appears to be a Giraffe and a face (looks like Portnoy) with a animal like torso just touching the right tip of the R.  The face is also the Giraffe's nose. This picture is repeated on almost every page where there is an R.  The dual hidden picture is northeast of the R's.  I dont know what a Giraffe is suppose to represent though.  I know this sounds absurd, but seriously look at this.  You have to look for a long time.  It's one of those hidden pictures that they show to you in psychology class to teach about the theories of perception.
-BKJ
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

mesavox
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 1:59 PM
This is going way beyond the intention methinks. It's also only getting more repetative. It would do the thread a lot of good if people would read the previous posts before posting because it's safe to assume that whatever idea you have it's MOST LIKELY been posted already.

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 2:11 PM

ORIGINAL: mesavox

This is going way beyond the intention methinks. It's also only getting more repetative. It would do the thread a lot of good if people would read the previous posts before posting because it's safe to assume that whatever idea you have it's MOST LIKELY been posted already.

 
This thread has been intense for quite some time now.
 
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

elwoodblues43
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 2:48 PM
Nothing against the people with the "R" and "L" theory, but I really hope it is wrong. Only because I think it would be fuckin hilarious if all that was just in your head, and The Man saw this thread and just laughed.

That said, what exactly are you talking about with the "R" and "L" thing? Are you holding the book under a blacklight or something so the letters stand out, or is there just a particular letter you are looking at? When I try to look at it I can't only pick out the "R"'s and "L"'s to focus on.
"If you ever fall off a tall building like the Sears Tower, go real limp, and maybe someone will think you're a dummy and catch you, because hey, free dummy"

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:03 PM

ORIGINAL: elwoodblues43

Nothing against the people with the "R" and "L" theory, but I really hope it is wrong. Only because I think it would be fuckin hilarious if all that was just in your head, and The Man saw this thread and just laughed.

That said, what exactly are you talking about with the "R" and "L" thing? Are you holding the book under a blacklight or something so the letters stand out, or is there just a particular letter you are looking at? When I try to look at it I can't only pick out the "R"'s and "L"'s to focus on.

 
Bro, it is plain view.  There are capital R's, almost on every page.  Turn the booklet vertically, and look by Full circle.  There are 2 capital R's in plain view. They are shaded gray.
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

Thedon7622
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:06 PM
I know the title says "Nuggets on Octavarium"......but is that the same as "Dropping a Nugget While Ocatavarium is on?"  Im going ot do that right now.....you just sit here and think about that......see you in 10 minutes.
...

SpacemanSpiff
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:18 PM
Curious, but isnt the note starting/ending the album the same as the opening note
in Derek's solo on Once in a LIVEtime?
Thoughts?

matt

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 3:31 PM
Ok, I know i am going to take criticism for this.  But i believe i just found a huge nugget.  If you look at the R's, you will see the dual picture that I have described earlier in other posts.  Although, i have been mistaken.  The creature is not a giraffe.  It is a goat.  The goats nose is also the head of the second piece of the picture, a satyr or faun.  This is a half goat half man creature.  You can see these two pictures in one if you stare for a while.  (Again, concentrate on the Northeast corner of the R's to see the picture)  Satyrs are said to be lustful (look at 3rd stanza for the root of all evil).  Satyrs are also prone to drinking.  (portnoys past alcoholism, again alluding to the root of all evil).  Oh, and did i mention that Portnoy's Chinese animal is a goat, since he was born on April 20, 1967?  I believe I have solved a huge piece of the puzzle.  Check these websites if you don't believe me.
 
http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/satyr.htm
http://chinese.astrology.com/goat.html
 
-BKJ
 
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

moncholo
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:03 PM

ORIGINAL: BKJ2005

Ok, I know i am going to take criticism for this.  But i believe i just found a huge nugget.  If you look at the R's, you will see the dual picture that I have described earlier in other posts.  Although, i have been mistaken.  The creature is not a giraffe.  It is a goat.  The goats nose is also the head of the second piece of the picture, a satyr or faun.  This is a half goat half man creature.  You can see these two pictures in one if you stare for a while.  (Again, concentrate on the Northeast corner of the R's to see the picture)  Satyrs are said to be lustful (look at 3rd stanza for the root of all evil).  Satyrs are also prone to drinking.  (portnoys past alcoholism, again alluding to the root of all evil).  Oh, and did i mention that Portnoy's Chinese animal is a goat, since he was born on April 20, 1967?  I believe I have solved a huge piece of the puzzle.  Check these websites if you don't believe me.

http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/satyr.htm
http://chinese.astrology.com/goat.html

-BKJ


 
 
i give you kudos
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
and criticism

CyberShy
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:08 PM
In Octavarium - The Song - all tracks are featured, after their 'track' number.
Though "The root of all evil" starts with "root" not "one"
 
Does the title of TRoaE have a double meaning, as it is the root of the entire album.
Which makes me wonder...... why would the content of the album in that case be mentioned as "all evil"
Is this 'root' thing just an accident? And is the 'root' of TRoaE a different 'root' not the same 'root'
Octavarium points at, or is there a meaning behind that?

moncholo
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:11 PM
the w00t of all evil?

Sokrates
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:16 PM

ORIGINAL: BKJ2005

Ok, I know i am going to take criticism for this.  But i believe i just found a huge nugget.  If you look at the R's, you will see the dual picture that I have described earlier in other posts.  Although, i have been mistaken.  The creature is not a giraffe.  It is a goat.  The goats nose is also the head of the second piece of the picture, a satyr or faun.  This is a half goat half man creature.  You can see these two pictures in one if you stare for a while.  (Again, concentrate on the Northeast corner of the R's to see the picture)  Satyrs are said to be lustful (look at 3rd stanza for the root of all evil).  Satyrs are also prone to drinking.  (portnoys past alcoholism, again alluding to the root of all evil).  Oh, and did i mention that Portnoy's Chinese animal is a goat, since he was born on April 20, 1967?  I believe I have solved a huge piece of the puzzle.  Check these websites if you don't believe me.

http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/satyr.htm
http://chinese.astrology.com/goat.html

-BKJ



Sorry dude, but I really can´t see any animals, Satyrs, Portnoys, etc. Have you noticed, that all the backgrounds on which the lyrics are printed are of the same scheme?


BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:28 PM
You have to look longer.  The goat head and fawn blend into each other together like these pictures http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=gestalt+pictures&ei=UTF-8&fr=FP-tab-web-t&fl=0&x=wrt
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 4:37 PM

ORIGINAL: Sokrates


ORIGINAL: BKJ2005

Ok, I know i am going to take criticism for this.  But i believe i just found a huge nugget.  If you look at the R's, you will see the dual picture that I have described earlier in other posts.  Although, i have been mistaken.  The creature is not a giraffe.  It is a goat.  The goats nose is also the head of the second piece of the picture, a satyr or faun.  This is a half goat half man creature.  You can see these two pictures in one if you stare for a while.  (Again, concentrate on the Northeast corner of the R's to see the picture)  Satyrs are said to be lustful (look at 3rd stanza for the root of all evil).  Satyrs are also prone to drinking.  (portnoys past alcoholism, again alluding to the root of all evil).  Oh, and did i mention that Portnoy's Chinese animal is a goat, since he was born on April 20, 1967?  I believe I have solved a huge piece of the puzzle.  Check these websites if you don't believe me.

http://www.eaudrey.com/myth/satyr.htm
http://chinese.astrology.com/goat.html

-BKJ



Sorry dude, but I really can´t see any animals, Satyrs, Portnoys, etc. Have you noticed, that all the backgrounds on which the lyrics are printed are of the same scheme?

 
Es ist Gestalt, Ich glaube. :) 
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

soulexposed
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:23 PM
(First post for me on the MP forums! \m/)

This nuggets thread is intense. There's so much hidden stuff to discover! I feel so geeky.

So, look at the back cover and turn in 90 degrees to the left. Look at the tops of the black keys... what do you guys see here? To me, it looks like snapshots of an explosion...
'loyalty, trust, faith and desire
carries love through each darkest fire'
- Octavarium by Dream Theater

ZDrums24
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:33 PM
i know this is a little off topic, but did anyone else hear jingle bells (jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way) swung in one of the transitions in the instrumental part of octavarium?

ZDrums24
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:35 PM
this may be a little off topic but:
in octavarium (the song) does any one else hear jingle bells in the instumental part of the song? right before the acoustic guitar in the between 17:00 and 18:00...

ZDrums24
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 5:37 PM
sorry, im not used to this forum (or any for that matter), i cancelled the first post just after i hit ok.  looks like it posted anyways

MusicTriviaNut
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:26 PM
OMG!!! IT'S A DOUBLE DOM!!  

S'okay dude.  Just messin' with ya.

mesavox
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:35 PM

ORIGINAL: ZDrums24

i know this is a little off topic, but did anyone else hear jingle bells (jingle bells, jingle bells, jingle all the way) swung in one of the transitions in the instrumental part of octavarium?


Read the thread... we've noticed it several times by now. ;)

Murasamee
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:55 PM


ORIGINAL: SilenceNOmorE

During Full Circle, it has been established that MP or someone else is saying "root, second, third, etc" to correspond with each stanza of lyrics. Also, during each stanza, after hearing the number spoken, I can hear very faintly in the background other singing, which sounds alot like James. I think it alternates between two different melodies. Does anybody else have any clue what it is?




What you hear in the back are clips from each song after their number has been called. Its a pretty awsome idea. Mostly they just used clips from the choruses of all the songs. Listen closely, you will hear.


..::Peace. Love. Harmony. Minor 3rds::..

Hiatus 6
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 7:24 PM

Maybe someone can explain this R thing to me ´cause I can´t see anything special there.


I can't see the R's either, but I can see a half circle on all of the left pages of the CD booklet (the pages with lyrics, only).  For lack of a better way to describe them, I'll call them D's.  So, it's like the right half of a circle.  If you look in the middle of the D it looks (to me) like it says "I Do."

...and this is my first time doing anything like this on the Forum, so here goes.

OMG WTF?!?!?!  M4Y-B MIKE P0R7|\|oY is 4CCP3TN1NG GhaAAL's HAND ||\| MARR14G3?!?!?!  LOLLERSTDKATES!!!!?!?!?!?

xALEXx
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:04 PM
And , anyone noticed that ...
The position of the balls is this way > /||||||\
When the 2 balls that are hanging out beat the others ... they will collide , and then the "force" will return , making the balls turn this position again /||||||\
And ... lets name these balls... WDADU (hanging) I&W , AWAKE , FII , SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT , 8V (hanging)
Now imagine... the balls will colide and then , the force that was made by the cointact of 8V with TOT , would get to SFAm and then return , because the force of WDADU choking with I&W would get to FII , and then ... when FII and SFAM colide , the force would turn over...
So ... the force of Octavarium turns to SFAm and comes again to Octavarium... and look , SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT and 8V are all linked by the end of the musics...
Thats a Overanalized Nugget for you all.... but for me , the full circle turns into SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT and 8V
 

Murasamee
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:11 PM


ORIGINAL: xALEXx

And , anyone noticed that ...
The position of the balls is this way > /||||||\
When the 2 balls that are hanging out beat the others ... they will collide , and then the "force" will return , making the balls turn this position again /||||||\
And ... lets name these balls... WDADU (hanging) I&W , AWAKE , FII , SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT , 8V (hanging)
Now imagine... the balls will colide and then , the force that was made by the cointact of 8V with TOT , would get to SFAm and then return , because the force of WDADU choking with I&W would get to FII , and then ... when FII and SFAM colide , the force would turn over...
So ... the force of Octavarium turns to SFAm and comes again to Octavarium... and look , SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT and 8V are all linked by the end of the musics...
Thats a Overanalized Nugget for you all.... but for me , the full circle turns into SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT and 8V




My brain hurts.

..::Peace. Love. Harmony. Minor 3rds::..

xALEXx
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:14 PM

ORIGINAL: Murasamee


ORIGINAL: xALEXx

And , anyone noticed that ...
The position of the balls is this way > /||||||\
When the 2 balls that are hanging out beat the others ... they will collide , and then the "force" will return , making the balls turn this position again /||||||\
And ... lets name these balls... WDADU (hanging) I&W , AWAKE , FII , SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT , 8V (hanging)
Now imagine... the balls will colide and then , the force that was made by the cointact of 8V with TOT , would get to SFAm and then return , because the force of WDADU choking with I&W would get to FII , and then ... when FII and SFAM colide , the force would turn over...
So ... the force of Octavarium turns to SFAm and comes again to Octavarium... and look , SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT and 8V are all linked by the end of the musics...
Thats a Overanalized Nugget for you all.... but for me , the full circle turns into SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT and 8V




My brain hurts.



So do mine
LOL
 
I think this one even Mike didn´t had thinked of...
 
But even though , this make sense , at least for me

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:26 PM
Wow, i keep seeing goats and Satyrs and what appears to be a man with a beard and long hair on everyone lyrics page.  They are the same schemes, and they repeat on every lyrics page.
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

xALEXx
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Tuesday, June 14, 2005 9:46 PM
AND WHAT ABOUT THIS ONE...
You see the V on the majety symbol... thats the 5 in roman numbers
you also see 3 I I I, theyre 3 in roman symbols , plu the v , it is VIII , thats the 8...
 
Now , were the traces come together in the midle I to make the V , you see 2 traces crossing the 2 lines of the V ... why are theu there?
 
Because the drawing becomes a 8 turned 90 degrees , making the infinity symbol ... and what the 5 album with new musics on it?
falling into Infinity ... really surprising
If you dont undesrtand or see the infinity symbol in the majesty logo , ask me , then i will try to be more clear

absolutezero
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Wednesday, June 15, 2005 1:35 AM

And , anyone noticed that ...
The position of the balls is this way > /||||||\
When the 2 balls that are hanging out beat the others ... they will collide , and then the "force" will return , making the balls turn this position again /||||||\
And ... lets name these balls... WDADU (hanging) I&W , AWAKE , FII , SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT , 8V (hanging)
Now imagine... the balls will colide and then , the force that was made by the cointact of 8V with TOT , would get to SFAm and then return , because the force of WDADU choking with I&W would get to FII , and then ... when FII and SFAM colide , the force would turn over...
So ... the force of Octavarium turns to SFAm and comes again to Octavarium... and look , SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT and 8V are all linked by the end of the musics...
Thats a Overanalized Nugget for you all.... but for me , the full circle turns into SFAM , 6DOIT , TOT and 8V


Actually, it is the momentum and energy that is transfered through the balls, not the force.  The force is a result of the transfer.  Furthermore, the momentum and energy of the right ball would travel down the other six balls and make the left ball jump back up while at the same time, the momentum and energy of the left ball would travel down the other six and make the right one jump back up.  So, they wouldn't "bounce" back; they go through each other.  So, I don't think your theory would work, but it sounds good.

Just some more information if anyone is interested:
The hanging balls, or Newton's apparatus, are an excellent example of a solid physics concept: Both momentum and energy must be conserved at the same time.  This means that there is only one way for the balls to bounce given any initial starting point. 

For example, every one knows if the right ball is pulled back and let go, the left most ball will bounce up and fall back and so on.  The point is, the left ball will bounce off with almost the same speed that the right one had when it hit the first ball.  This means the left ball will bounce to roughly the same height.  (Friction causes a loss of energy, which makes the height smaller each time).  So what you ask?

If you pull two balls to the right and let them go, would two balls bounce off from the left with the same speed as the right ones, or would one ball bounce off with twice the speed and go twice as high?  You would never see one ball bounce off with twice the speed because although momentum would be conserved, energy would not!  The only way both are conserved, which means kept the same, is for two balls to bounce off. (Assume the apparatus has five balls)

Before collision: |||\\ after collision: //|||

This makes for some cool collisions that most people are not aware of.  If you get the chance, try pulling back three balls.  (Assuming you have an apparatus with five balls altogether).  That leaves two hanging still.  When the three fall and strike the two, the middle ball will join the two hanging ones and bounce off to the left!

Before: ||\\\ after: ///||

Try pulling two to the left and three to the right at the same time! 

Before: //\\\  after: ///\\

It turns out that you will end up with the same picture only backwards for every collision, which is the only way both momentum and energy is conserved.  Of course, the only way the two pictures are the same is when both end balls are pulled back! (Or the two end balls are pulled back)

before: /|||\  after: /|||\      or    before: //|\\  after: //|\\
 
Maybe that is a clue? 

<message edited by absolutezero on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 1:36 AM>

Virtuoso80
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Wednesday, June 15, 2005 1:45 AM
Here's a new little detail I noticed: Listen to the drums on I Walk Beside You - the second half of the second verse. The rhythm Mike is playing on his hi-hat is I think exactly the same as the drum/bass breakdown section of New Millenium where he plays the rim of his tom.

Yes No?

Consub
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Wednesday, June 15, 2005 3:48 AM
I (finally!) just got my CD in tattered conditions. Wow, what artwork! I think most of its covered already, but there's one thing I didn't find.

Of course the birds on the extended cover and the back cover are octaves.

HOWEVER, you have to flip them, because as it is, it would give a reverse octave. So, you've to make it go semi-circle horizontally before you achieve an octave. For the back, that is of course after you rotated it 90 degrees. At the top of the keys, you'll see some stuff.

NUGGET: For the 3 last black keys, bring them close together, over the white keys, you definately get some pattern on the top. Its very interesting.

For the first 2 keys, one of them seem to be someone's face. You can see one eye. Stare at it from some time, you'll get it... The other one's obscure... No clue...

One more thing, there's an extra key from the previous octave in both occasions. Depends on which way you see it...

moncholo
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Wednesday, June 15, 2005 6:46 AM
I bought Oc-ta-varium
I bought Oc-ta-varium
I bought Oc-ta-varium
I bought Oc-ta-varium
I bought Oc-ta-varium
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
OMG 5 TIMESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!212!"1"!!!!!!!!!!1!111!11!!

Nick Lee
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:04 AM

ORIGINAL: DrumBoySkim

Sorry, i wasn't quick enough to edit my last post, but on the pages before the one i mentioned the R's and L's on, you can see maybe one R, but the last page seems to have the most on it... also, the top left of the These Walls page seems to have the most detail in some other letters/numbers i'm seeing... a 5, maybe an S, a 10 on it's side.... lots of oooooo's in a row, a BF somewhere... can anyone else confirm this?


They look like sketched numbers ("59º967º3"?) if you turn the page 90º to the right. The "10" becomes a series of numbers as well...but they're hard to read under the lyrics.

Matika
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Wednesday, June 15, 2005 9:15 AM
Here's a nugget.....go outside, stop looking into everything.

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