Nuggets on Octavarium

OK, I JUST realized there are negative tracks between songs where there are black keys on the piano, and none where there aren't (I walk beside you-Panic attack (b to c), and Sacrifiiced Sons-Octavarium (e to f)). Probably already been brought up...but just in case.

When I heard MP on the XM41 Eddie Trunk show, he kind of hinted that Never Enough kind of represented DT fans in general!! WE ARE FANATICAL and he's right...we can't get enough! I mean just look at all the fans/musicians analyzing this new album!!
 
By the way...the piano exit of TRoAE and entrance on TALW with the birds chirping had hints of the beginning of Disappear from 6DOIT. Just my hearing, maybe?
 
I love this album!! It has this kind of song style differences that it seems only DT can pull off!!

At 7:15 of Panic Attack the ending is echoed 8 times.

Regarding the domino picture, notice the bird resting on the 5 domino.  The birds represent the accidentals on the front cover, and as we know, there are 5 accidentals.

just noticed, octavarium is 24 mins long, and 24 is a multiple of 8

ORIGINAL: Honma

Jesus... you people have too much fucking time on your hands. All I heard on the new album was far, far too much rehashing of riffs, melodies and phrasing. I for one, am sick of it. I don't care how "cool" some people think it is, it's tired, and dull now. DT obviously have the ability to write new shit, I just wish they would.

Call it "call back" or call TSD a "sequel" to TGP, that's fine, but for me, I'm sick of hearing the same little "nuggets" over and over again.

That said, I'm disappointed with this album. It's got it's moments, but on a whole, this would've fit perfectly after FII... and I hate FII.

<waits for the backlash>

Read lyrics to Never Enough, then look in mirror.

ORIGINAL: Mr.Petrucci

ORIGINAL: Dave52

Also, the final piano strike is the same as the opening piano.

Which is cool when you look at the last lyric line which says:
"This story ends where it began"

"sailing on the seven seize the day tripper diem's ready
jack the ripper owens wilson philips an my supper's ready
lucy in the sky with diamons dave's not here I come to save the
day for nightmare cinema show me the way to get back home
again"

I found these references so far:

Sailing on the seven seize - "seize" is exactly spoken as "seas" which would be the real meaning
Seize the day
Day Tripper - Beatles
Jack the Ripper - Morrissey
Supper's ready - Genesis
Lucy in the sky with diamonds - Beatles
Nightmare Cinema -
Cinema Show - Genesis
Get back - Beatles
Diamond Dave - David Lee Roth
Owen Wilson - an actor 
Wilson Philips - a band 
Day for night - Spock's Beard
Ripper Owens - Vocalist of Iced Earth (ex-Judas Priest)
 
CHEERZ!
 

I thought that the "Seven Seas" part referred to "The Seven Seas of Rhye" by Queen.

ORIGINAL: Andreameda

ORIGINAL: drdnj

Which is cool when you look at the last lyric line which says:
"This story ends where it began"

"sailing on the seven seize the day tripper diem's ready
jack the ripper owens wilson philips an my supper's ready
lucy in the sky with diamons dave's not here I come to save the
day for nightmare cinema show me the way to get back home
again"

I found these references so far:

Sailing on the seven seize - "seize" is exactly spoken as "seas" which would be the real meaning
Seize the day
Day Tripper - Beatles
Jack the Ripper - Morrissey
Supper's ready - Genesis
Lucy in the sky with diamonds - Beatles
Nightmare Cinema -
Cinema Show - Genesis
Get back - Beatles
Diamond Dave - David Lee Roth
Owen Wilson - an actor 
Wilson Philips - a band 
Day for night - Spock's Beard
Ripper Owens - Vocalist of Iced Earth (ex-Judas Priest)
 
CHEERZ!
 

Don't forget "here I come to save the day" - Mighty Mouse (avatar bias)

And also the "Gabba gabba hey hey" reference to the Ramones!!!

Which overlaps with the "Hey Hey, My My" reference to Neil Young. Which overlaps into The Who's "My Generation."

I guess its my turn to spill my 2 cents...

For the Octavarium image (the star in the octagon pic), its clear to me that its an architectural layout diagram, like something done in AutoCAD for building layouts. It seems that on each of the directional sides (north, south, east, and west faces) of the octagon are what is usually a symbol for doors in these types of diagrams. Only one of the doors is open (the south face), maybe symbolizing the whole notion of starting off the story where it ended. You enter through the only open door (the beginning of the CD)and have to make your way around the Octavarium, and when you get back to where you started, you can choose to leave and move on, or you can repeat the same cycle again, getting trapped in the Octavarium.

I dunno though, to me I get a feel of a lot of the whole "viscious cyle" type feeling, as kinda stated in my little theory above. A lot of the songs have a theme of repetition. In Root of All Evil, you have someone caught in a viscious circle of addiction, trying very hard to get out. Answer Lies Within shows perhaps a key to escaping the octavarium, while These Walls sort of represents many of the things which prevent us from moving on with our lives. I Walk Beside you is another close person trying to help the trapped person escape. Panic Attack is a person very jittery about things, perhaps due to paranoia from 9/11 about terrorism. Never enough is about Mike taking a giving all these things for the fans and getting the short end of the stick, but continues falling into the same pattern and coming back to the fans. Sacrificed sons obviously is about the circle of violence in terrorism, in the sense that zealots commit these religious based attacks and yet it keeps inspiring more and more people to try these attacks out in the name of God. Just some random thoughts. Also the cover is one of those balls that always cycle back and forth, more symbolism

I also get the odd feeling of this being a "Goodbye" album for some reason. Never Enough was some pretty heavy feelings (anyone reminded lyrically of Tool's "Hooker with a Penis"?). The eight ball is always the final ball to be sunk, the stop sign, the fact that the cover ball isn't going to hit any more balls...I dunno...all their various styles seem to converge on this album, from the heaviness of ToT to the some of their experimental type stuff from Great Debate, to their Images and Words/Awake type stuff. All in perfect balance...ready to leave the Octavarium...

Of course this is coming from a college grad student who hasn't eaten anything in a day, and had about as many hours of sleep in the last 4 days as I have fingers on my hand...so if this is complete garbage, don't mind me

ORIGINAL: Erotified

There is a section that I cannot find right now that where the string part sounds identical to a Dimmu Borgir tune that I can't remember the name of.  Please someone tell me you know what I'm talking about.  

Around 5:45 - 6:00 in Panic Attack, the riff sounds like the main riff of Burn in Hell by Dimmu Borgir... I noticed that one too.

I was waiting for "hear no evil, don't you see no evil..."

ORIGINAL: Matt100fly

ORIGINAL: Mr.Petrucci

ORIGINAL: T8H3X11

ORIGINAL: Mr.Petrucci

In the intro of 8V the song I first thought that it's JP playing...
But after looking into the booklet I'd say that this would be JR on Lap Steel guitar?!

CHEERZ!

No, it's on his new Continuum.

Na, I mean the 4-minute intro...that's definately some sort of string-instrument!

CHEERZ!

Nope, that deffinantly is his continum, have you seen the video of him playing on it?

 
Paraphrased directly fromm the mouth of JR tonight:
"I play the 4 plus minute intro on the steel lap guitar and then switch to my continuum."

ORIGINAL: Idrumbad

Paraphrased directly fromm the mouth of JR tonight:
"I play the 4 plus minute intro on the steel lap guitar and then switch to my continuum."

Very cool. Wonder if he'll do it live as well. That would be so awesome.

You guys are friggin geniuses

All of this stuff has been great so far and think...this is only the first damn day! I, like others have mentioned, have this underlying feeling that there is something huge underneath all of these little nuggets. I hope it is confirmed that there is something big to find out because with this being the perfect album to create a big puzzle and knowing that MP's mind likes to play games with us...it is almost a given right?

Or perhaps MP will make us think that there is something big to figure out and hence "trapping us inside this Octavarium" in an endless quest with no escape with the joke on us.

But seriously, I just get that gut feeling that there is something huge to discover dealing with this album.

I dont like the fact that im not the only person that got the scary feeling this album hints towards the final DT album. Though I highly highly doubt this is true, its weird that other peopel got that vibe also.
 
jim

I just cant  believe how SMART these guys are...I mean SFAM was genius, but all the small details in this album are incredible...I really think that most of the "nuggets" you have came up with are all a little bit correct...

especially the 5/8 thing, and the keys of the songs with the piano on the back cover....thats just amazing!

DT is at the TOP of their game!

Though I can see where some of you are coming from thinking that this album seems to the bands final hoora, lets us not forget that they still have to complete the AA saga.

1) Did anyone hear the 'footsteps' at the beginning of TROAE?  Reminiscent of SFAM.
2) At 4:38 in TW, the melody reminds me of "Wrapped Around My Finger" by The Police.
3) Doesnt 'Medicate' sound a lot like 'Voices'??

ORIGINAL: Del Fuvio Monk

Though I can see where some of you are coming from thinking that this album seems to the bands final hoora, lets us not forget that they still have to complete the AA saga.

That's a good point, but until I heard the XM MP interview, I actually assumed that The Root Of All Evil was the last part, making it a trilogy... First of all, the epic piano ending. Second, the bells at the end - that's how the saga begins in The Glass Prison.
 
I hope I'm wrong, of course. The more DT albums, the better (especially if they're as good as this one!).

ORIGINAL: Idrumbad

Paraphrased directly fromm the mouth of JR tonight:
"I play the 4 plus minute intro on the steel lap guitar and then switch to my continuum."

Not sure what he described to be paraphrased that way, but the first 2:35 is Continuum (triggering a Roland V-Synth, same patch he used on the video demo a couple months ago) then it's lap steel from 2:35 until 4:17.

Hmm. Based on the shadow of the woman on the cover, it could be around 8pm. Any thoughts?

ORIGINAL: Dreamsbeard

just noticed, octavarium is 24 mins long, and 24 is a multiple of 8

And when you divide 24 by 8, you get 3... And as been mentioned earlier, the album is in 3 parts (roughly 25 minutes each... Tracks 1-4, tracks 5-7, and track 8).

Yeah, I think NOW we're going a bit too far with this maybe... LOL
 
 
Edit: ^^ and (below) : Interesting...

Also, the angle of the sun reflecting off the balls could mean it's around 5pm!
 
Wee.

Disclaimer: This is not a 'the cover sucks because the string is too short' post.
 
I just noticed something... This might've been obvious, but I think that if the swinging balls were to REPLACE the ball they're swinging towards (to the left or to the right, depending on the front and inside cover, respectively), then the strings would be of perfect length. Whether this was delibrate or a mistake on Hugh Syme's part by making the wrong ball swing is unclear to me. And if it was the latter, I don't really care; the music is what matters anyway.
 
 
Speaking of potential anomalies, in my booklet the lyrics for Part III of Octavarium (the Full Circle part) say:
 
flying off the handle with careful with
that axe eugene... [etc]
 
When I think it might have to say
 
flying off the handle be careful with
that axe eugene... [etc]
 
Although, I can't really tell if James is singing "be" or "with".

 
 
Also... The lyrics for the last chorus of The Root Of All Evil say
 
Take all of me
And the drive that keep burning deep inside
Cast it all away
And help to give me strength... [etc]
 
When in fact James sings the first version of the chorus instead (i.e. "The desires" instead of "And the drive" and "Cast them all away" instead of "Cast it all away"). My guess is that MP intended to have the second chorus go differently, but either that accidentally didn't happen due to whatever reason, or maybe he simply changed his mind.
 
 
 
P.S.: I just gave Octavarium a good listen again. Holy fuck, what a great album. Honestly, every song is killer. The Root Of All Evil and Panic Attack are \m/. The Answer Lies Within and I Walk Beside You are beautiful. These Walls is amazing. Never Enough and Sacrificed Sons are great. And the title-track of course is creamingly good. Sends chills down my spine every time.
What a great time to be a DT fanatic.

Im too lazy to figure out what the Nugget is and since so many of you are whacking your brains out , ill wait to hear from someone someday !!!
 
Moreover i havent even got the CD yet so

This thread turns into my absolutely favourite one on 8V. Anyway, was it mentioned yet that the bell in the beginning of TALW tolls 8 times?

Uh, and for I´m too lazy to post in one of the countless review threads: This album is really about to surpass SFOAM as my favourite DT album. Still getting gooseballs in the climax of Ovtavarium although i listened to this SMF for about 25 times in the last two days.

                     Octopus's Garden
   (Richard Starkey)
  As performed by the Beatles (Ringo)
                           Abbey Road (1969)


[intro]
B E
B A B
E C#m A B



      E               C#m
I'd like to be   under the sea
       A                        B      
In an Octopus's Garden in the shade.

      E              C#m
He'd let us in   knows where we've been,
        A                        B
In his Octopus's Garden in the shade.
      C#m
I'd ask my friends to come and see    
      A                B
An Octopus's Garden with me.

      E               C#m
I'd like to be   under the sea
       A                        B      
In an Octopus's Garden in the shade.


      E                 C#m
We would be warm   below the storm
                 A                           B
In our little hideaway beneath the waves.
      E                 C#m
Resting our head   on the sea bed
       A                       B
In an Octopus's Garden near a cave.
      C#m
We would sing and dance around
      A                     B
Because we know we can't be found.

      E               C#m
I'd like to be   under the sea
       A                        B      
In an Octopus's Garden in the shade.


[Solo]
A F#m D   E
A F#m D E A B


      E               C#m
We would shout   and swim about
      A                                  B
The coral that lies beneath the waves.
      E                   C#m
Oh, what joy for every girl and boy
      A                                    B
Knowing they're happy and they're safe.
      C#m
We would be so happy, you and me.
      A                                 B
No one there to tell us what to do.

      E               C#m
I'd like to be   under the sea
               A          B     C#m
In an Octopus's Garden with you,
       A          B     C#m
In an Octopus's Garden with you,
       A          B      E   B   E
In an Octopus's Garden with you.

Could the reason why the string lengths on the swinging balls are shorter than expected be because the boy with the string/can communicator is pulling on the same strings?

ORIGINAL: drumpriest

When I heard MP on the XM41 Eddie Trunk show, he kind of hinted that Never Enough kind of represented DT fans in general!! WE ARE FANATICAL and he's right...we can't get enough! I mean just look at all the fans/musicians analyzing this new album!!

Yeah, but I think he meant it in a negative sense. He was upset about some "bad apples" here who are never satisfied, no matter how hard he tried.
"What would you say if I walked away?" is sort of a warning, because if the fans keep bitching, MP has the right to stop creating music.

I'll refrain from expressing my personal opinions. But the new album is good, anyways.

ORIGINAL: {PoLaRiS_88}

ORIGINAL: drumpriest

When I heard MP on the XM41 Eddie Trunk show, he kind of hinted that Never Enough kind of represented DT fans in general!! WE ARE FANATICAL and he's right...we can't get enough! I mean just look at all the fans/musicians analyzing this new album!!

Yeah, but I think he meant it in a negative sense. He was upset about some "bad apples" here who are never satisfied, no matter how hard he tried.
"What would you say if I walked away?" is sort of a warning, because if the fans keep bitching, MP has the right to stop creating music.

I'll refrain from expressing my personal opinions. But the new album is good, anyways.

 
I think these posts belong in the "never enough" topic.
And I completely DISagree with drumpriest. I think MP clearly states NE is about the bad apples that make his "blood boil". Furthermore he is very proud and happy with the fanatical following. (Also clearly stated in the interview).
 
Right, more of this in the NE topic

Don't know if someone said this already but: could the 3 birds flying away from the "8" and "5" (dominos) represent KevMo, Charlie and Derek?

ORIGINAL: motorhead9999


For the Octavarium image (the star in the octagon pic), its clear to me that its an architectural layout diagram, like something done in AutoCAD for building layouts. It seems that on each of the directional sides (north, south, east, and west faces) of the octagon are what is usually a symbol for doors in these types of diagrams. Only one of the doors is open (the south face), maybe symbolizing the whole notion of starting off the story where it ended. You enter through the only open door (the beginning of the CD)and have to make your way around the Octavarium, and when you get back to where you started, you can choose to leave and move on, or you can repeat the same cycle again, getting trapped in the Octavarium.

AND! if you go from left to right inside the octavarium there's f#, g#, a#, c# and d# and just look at the back cover -> LaBrie = f#, JM = g# and so on...

Also from the continuum website
the total pitch range of the full-size Continuum Fingerboard is nearly 8 octaves
 

j/k
 
I'm looking a bit too far into it here.

He will do it live. I've seen the new stand....awesome!
 
Jeroen
 

ORIGINAL: faizoff

ORIGINAL: Idrumbad

Paraphrased directly fromm the mouth of JR tonight:
"I play the 4 plus minute intro on the steel lap guitar and then switch to my continuum."

Very cool. Wonder if he'll do it live as well. That would be so awesome.

ORIGINAL: Morte
That's a good point, but until I heard the XM MP interview, I actually assumed that The Root Of All Evil was the last part, making it a trilogy...

no, MP said on XM that this is NOT a trilogy.
there are 12 steps, and they've already done 7.
5 steps remaining --> 2 songs certainly.

In reference to your post Joker,  which one would be "the crooked step"?  maybe a potential nugget there somewhere?

In all this, no one has mentioned the obvious Six Degrees reference in Octavarium, when the main theme starts playing in one of the verses.

this album has depth, that's good.

The domino blocks could represent the WTC towers. Just came in mind after seeing the lyrics of Sacrificed Sons.

ORIGINAL: Three

Holy elderberries batman..
I was looking up album covers, and on the 6 degrees cover is a circle devided into eight parts with 2 shaded in...



draw your own conclusions

Conclusion: They knew that SDOIT was release 6 of 8.

ORIGINAL: motorhead9999

I also get the odd feeling of this being a "Goodbye" album for some reason. Never Enough was some pretty heavy feelings (anyone reminded lyrically of Tool's "Hooker with a Penis"?). The eight ball is always the final ball to be sunk, the stop sign, the fact that the cover ball isn't going to hit any more balls...I dunno...all their various styles seem to converge on this album, from the heaviness of ToT to the some of their experimental type stuff from Great Debate, to their Images and Words/Awake type stuff. All in perfect balance...ready to leave the Octavarium...

ORIGINAL: SDOIT

I dont like the fact that im not the only person that got the scary feeling this album hints towards the final DT album. Though I highly highly doubt this is true, its weird that other peopel got that vibe also.

There are a lot of things on this CD that seem to hint at it being the last. Never Enough: "what would you say, if I walked away, would you appreciate, but then it'd be too late".  Octavarium: "the calls of admirers, who claim they adore, drain all your lifeblood while begging for more". The stop sign and eight ball mentioned above.

I posted before about the octopus picture where someone said the 5 fish could represent the 5 band members. I replied that then why is one of them about to be eaten and the others are doing nothing to stop it. From the lyrics that he wrote on this CD, you could theorize that the one being eaten is MP and he is leaving the band.

One could theorize: They knew they would make 2 more records after SDOIT (to fulfull their contract), hence the 6 of 8 in the circle on the cover. On TOT they sent a big FU out to the record company with As I Am. On 8V they send a big FU out to the few fans that can't stop complaining and begging for shit. And they leave a bunch of other hints in the music and artwork.

Hopefully it's not the last release, maybe it's all just signifying the last release with the current record company.