Nuggets on Octavarium

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faizoff
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:04 PM
This is the 8th page on the 8V thread!!!1

I'm going to go eat a cookie now.
"I'm in a glass case of emotion."

Savaron
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:12 PM
There is alot of messages in the artwork alone. I think the cover itself with the metal balls represents the eight albums. I get the impression the left ball is swinging in which would be WDADU and the right being Octavarium. I think the "Octavarium" is the music buisness and the labels themselves. They have been trapped in it and they are now ready to leave. Thus the last ball swinging away. Also, the four on the back being the albums with other band members and the four balls on the front being the current line-up leaving together. The ones that made the last four albums and will continue to make the future ones. Can't figure out what the asian woman means at all.
 
Inside you have the Dominoes. I wasn't sure if they were tombstones or not but I think they may be now. There are two of them and that is how many labels they have been on. They are dead to them. The three crows may represent the three band members lost during the eight Albums. Charlie, Kevin, and Derek.
 
The Octopus picture. Again, the Octopus is the monster (the music buisness). The fish are the band swimming away from it. The stop sign with the majesty symbol is telling the Octopus to stop. Which is the band saying "we are not going to take this anymore".
 
The spider trapped in the maze maybe represents the eight albums they have made for the labels. No matter what they do in the future those recordings will always be owned and controlled by the label they were on. Therefore the spider cannot get out of the maze.
 
The eight ball representing the band sinking the last ball (album) and then the game is over.
 
Just some opinions I have about some of pictures. I think the whole "Octavarium" thing is about them leaving the labels behind. I think they are going to do something on thier own for sure. They are sick of the control, the lack of support, lack on money, and the leaks.

faizoff
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:17 PM
^^^Good post, good read, good interpretation.
"I'm in a glass case of emotion."

Luchitos
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:30 PM
Hey, maybe the octopus represents MagnaCarta and is about to fuck up a fish (MP). How about that?

What stands in the way, becomes the way. 


"It's not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it" Lucius Seneca

J3LV3HL WV3JG
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:37 PM
very well thought out.....
 
R.
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StolenItalianIce
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:45 PM
Fear not fellow forumers, for I have finally solved the riddle that is "Octavarium".  Let's just take it from the top.
 
On the 8th day of the 8th month of the 8th hour, the 5 members of Dream Theater went to the studio to record their 8th album, "Octavarium".  Upon entering the studio, Mike Portnoy stubbed two of his toes, James Labrie stubbed one, John Myung stubbed 2, Jordan Rudess stubbed 1, and John Petrucci stubbed 2.  This would make eight black toes on five white members, symbolizing an octave on a piano.  "What a coincidence!" shouted, smiling with excitement.  The two stubbed toes that Portnoy suffered caused him to slip a couple of times on the double bass pedal.  It turned out that all of the bass pedal accidents created a morse code message in the song "The Root of All Evil".  The message decoded reads as follows: "This song is the first note of the scale...oh yeah, and eat my ass and...".  For some reason, the word "Balls" was mysteriously missing.  However, later on in the recording process (during the recording of Jordan's parts in the title track, to be specific), John Petrucci jokingly said "Hey, you're recording the 8th track and have exactly 5 hairs on your head...more symbolism with numbers!".  Jordan responded by yelling "I'm going to kick you in the...".  He then yelled "Balls" right as the recording began.  This is why you can hear the last word of the infamous message about 8 minutes into the title track.  The spider, octopus, and other references to "5:8" were all added later on.  However, the question still remains:  Why?  Well, if you look back to the first part of the story, the message is very clear.  I mean, do you really think that all five band members stubbed their toes on the same entrance way all at the same time?  Of course not, because they didn't stub their own toes.  Someone else stubbed them for them.  Yes, another party is involved, but who?  Well, I'll tell you:  MAGNA CARTA.  Magna Carta knew that Portnoy was going to record a new album, and there wasn't a damn thing they could do to suck even more money out of him.  So, they tried stubbing all of the band members toes in an effort to stop the recording of the album from happening.  The plan failed, and the band members devised a plan of their own.  More specifically, a terrorist attack on Magna Carta.  The date on which this attack will be conducted, you may ask?  MAY 8TH (5/8) of next year.  All of the symoblism you are finding is really just a hidden message being sent to Magna Carta that translates to "Your ass is mine on May 8th, bitch".
 
I can understand why you may not believe me, but just give the story time to settle in.  Come May 8th, 2006, you will all see... 
What you are reading right now is less than four lines of text.

StolenItalianIce
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:46 PM
Hmmm, seems like Luchitos got to it faster, and in a much shorter fashion.  Well done, sir.
What you are reading right now is less than four lines of text.

Phil_The_Rodent
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:54 PM
8 Miesian Balls?

T8H3X11
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 1:55 PM
Methinks some of you should get girlfriends...

T8H3X11
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:05 PM
I guess I'll add my contribution to this thread despite what I said in my above post.

In the pre-track (I guess thats what it is called) before "I Walk Beside You when the clock starts ticking it pans from left to right.  I counted each pan a set of 1.  Before the song goes from track 3 to 4 there are 8 sets of pans and once the track turns to 4 there are another 8 sets. Hmm...

Phil_The_Rodent
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:06 PM


ORIGINAL: T8H3X11

Methinks some of you should get girlfriends...


Killjoy.

Whiskeyjack
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:20 PM
The first two lyrical parts of Ocatvatium could reflect within the movie Awakenings. The first part Someone Like Him would relate to the Robin William's character risking all to try something new. He marvels, watching Robert De Niro's awakening from his catatonic state, admiring Deniro's new found joy at the simplest of things and appreciating life. Something he could learn from . Meanwhile his own personal life is but one step ahead of the train. The second part Medicate (Awakening)  is the told from De Niro's point of view.
<message edited by Whiskeyjack on Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:21 PM>
"Music is just a release of all that stuff inside that's trying to kill you. I think just — life is so difficult. The thing I love about music is that you can take painful, deep things that hurt, and turn them into something beautiful." ~ Ray LaMontagne

Three
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:20 PM
Okay...
This might be obvious,
but take the number 8...
rotate it 90 degrees left or right, you decide
What do you get?
The infinity symbol.
What is the 5th album? Falling into infinity
Maybe the connection is a bit far fetched.. but... maybe... :)

Dreamster
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:25 PM

ORIGINAL: Three

Okay...
This might be obvious,
but take the number 8...
rotate it 90 degrees left or right, you decide
What do you get?
The infinity symbol.
What is the 5th album? Falling into infinity
Maybe the connection is a bit far fetched.. but... maybe... :)

wow.

Luchitos
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 2:26 PM

ORIGINAL: Three

Okay...
This might be obvious,
but take the number 8...
rotate it 90 degrees left or right, you decide
What do you get?
The infinity symbol.
What is the 5th album? Falling into infinity
Maybe the connection is a bit far fetched.. but... maybe... :)


Far fetched, but possible

What stands in the way, becomes the way. 


"It's not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it" Lucius Seneca

icepick3383
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:34 PM

ORIGINAL: J3LV3HL WV3JG

very well thought out.....

R.


Did you post that thing about the interludes and how they fit into the scale...and how they're all in the proper order (from JR.com's forum)...in this thread? Because that was totally f'n bad ass. I thought I read thru this and didn't see it but here it is anyway. It's an awesome discovery...if so, here it is again.



ORIGINAL: J3LV3HL WV3JG
I found out why the times on the Disc don't match up to the times on the back of the case!


Put the CD in an actual CD player and watch the time read out.......there are hidden "countdown" sections to the tracks in question. Their purpose within the ‘concept’ of the album is very interesting. Simply put, they represent accidentals.

Look on the back of the CD case… each track corresponds to a note on the fingerboard. Naturally so, there would need to be notes in between certain songs.


Hence:
1. TROAE
F#
2. TALW
G#
3. TW
A#
4. IWBY

5. PA
C#
6. NE
D#
7. SS

8. 8v

* note that only songs 1 2 3 and 5 6 are labeled the incorrect time.



Something else I found out.....the accidentals are actual in pitch.....lol

That is why there is a bend in the pitch of the last chord in TALW.

I think it would be overstating it, but DAMMIT these guys are fawkin amazing!

<message edited by icepick3383 on Thursday, June 09, 2005 3:35 PM>
http://www.brianmckenzie.com is the new project I'm in. Please listen! :) thanks!

chucho DT
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 4:05 PM
In the history of DT, with albums released there have been 8 members in total: John Petrucci, Mike Portnoy, John Myung, Jordan Rudess, James LaBrie, Charlie Dominici, Derek Sherinian, and Kevin Moore. But they have always been 5.

Weymolith
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 5:38 PM
I'm really shocked that no one has nailed this one yet :

The first guitar chord during the intro of TROAE before the drums, is the same guitar chord played during the old WD&DU concert intros in 1989, as well, it can heard on the menu screen for WD&DR DVD

InsaneMonkey
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:00 PM

ORIGINAL: JoelHR

did anyone notice on the front of the cd case, the octave is between B and B, and the back, the octave is between F and F. THE MIGHTY TRITONE
i dont think this has been said, but im too lazy to look through 8 pages of mathematical equations about the number 8.

but the tritone is hugely important in the history of music, it basically is a huge foundation for everything. btw, in the old days, (ancient greece) the tritone was considered the devil's interval. hehehhehe


This particular tritone also, correct me if I'm wrong, is the chord that the beginning of TROAE is based off of.
"I can't tell you what hotel I'm staying at, but I can tell you that it's got something to do with two trees." - Mitch Hedberg

Murasamee
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:10 PM
I just think 8va is just a huge tribute album, that also goes through the past 7 albums of DT. Some may say there are parts from old DT songs all over this album, along with obvious references to other songs, especially in 8va. That song in itself is the album, the true art form of this album is contained in that one song. I also love the art on the book, just filled with things that are meaningful. My fav is the blueprint picture. You can see all the songs there, in their respective keys along each wall. And on the inside you can see the sharps that represent the moving to the next note on the piano. Obviously nothing between B-C and E-F. I think thats brilliant in itself.

Its a work of art. DT, you really do prove that you can really do anything musically. Its genious. This is beyond a musical creation to me. Its pure art.

Its times like these, I love being a DT fan. Its very fufilling.

Thanks guys, you really know how to make people happy, and complete.

Beautiful.



..::Peace. Love. Harmony. Minor 3rds::..

remo2112
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:26 PM

ORIGINAL: Three

Okay...
This might be obvious,
but take the number 8...
rotate it 90 degrees left or right, you decide
What do you get?
The infinity symbol.
What is the 5th album? Falling into infinity
Maybe the connection is a bit far fetched.. but... maybe... :)

 
One itty bitty problem with your theory.  Falling Into Infinity was actually album #4.
 
In Order:
1. WDADU
2. I&W
3. Awake
4. FII
5. SFAM
6. 6DOIT
7. TOT
8. 8V
 
Nice try, though.
I'm addicted to placebos.

AchillesLastStand76
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:35 PM
A change of Season's surely counts even though the b side is a bootleg. 

Luchitos
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 6:37 PM

ORIGINAL: remo2112


ORIGINAL: Three

Okay...
This might be obvious,
but take the number 8...
rotate it 90 degrees left or right, you decide
What do you get?
The infinity symbol.
What is the 5th album? Falling into infinity
Maybe the connection is a bit far fetched.. but... maybe... :)


One itty bitty problem with your theory.  Falling Into Infinity was actually album #4.

In Order:
1. WDADU
2. I&W
3. Awake
4. FII
5. SFAM
6. 6DOIT
7. TOT
8. 8V

Nice try, though.


What about ACOS?
IF you count it as a studio CD. Though that would mean we'd also have to take into account Live At The Marquee, maybe. Bah what do I know.

What stands in the way, becomes the way. 


"It's not that we have a short time to live, but that we waste a lot of it" Lucius Seneca

mesavox
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:06 PM

seven seize - seven seas of rye - Queen


I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that....


Three
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:15 PM

ORIGINAL: remo2112


ORIGINAL: Three

Okay...
This might be obvious,
but take the number 8...
rotate it 90 degrees left or right, you decide
What do you get?
The infinity symbol.
What is the 5th album? Falling into infinity
Maybe the connection is a bit far fetched.. but... maybe... :)


One itty bitty problem with your theory.  Falling Into Infinity was actually album #4.

In Order:
1. WDADU
2. I&W
3. Awake
4. FII
5. SFAM
6. 6DOIT
7. TOT
8. 8V

Nice try, though.

 
o well.. my bad, but still I think it still goes well with the whole full circle theme ^_^

BKJ2005
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:25 PM
I have mentioned this before, but what if they are working on this motif to make us conjure up all these theories just like the Beatles did with adding to the rumors that Paul was dead.  Morever, I looked on the net for what symbolism is identified with an octopus.  An octopus symbolizes a <<spiral>>.  It also symbolizes <<unconsciousness>>.  Also, I believe that an Octopus represents big business and government.  An Octopus has been used to describe the Bush administration as well in various books.  Thus, i concur with most of you.  But i think the Octopus has a number of meanings. 
I love teachers... you do something wrong, they make you do it over again. R.I.P. Rodney

Del Fuvio Monk
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:26 PM
Does anyone else think that the chick on the back of the booklet looks like Lucy Liu?  In particular, it looks like her in her Charlie's Angels outfit.

mesavox
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:36 PM
9 pages. I read them but who knows if I missed anything so here is something I noticed...

Also, at the 3:35 to 4:15 is like a combination of the end of A Day In The Life and the end of She's So Heavy. It's also very end of Finally Free. Kind of spaced out a bit though. But like the Bohemian Rhapsody part, it's not exact, just a hint.

I also noticed the beginning of Panic Attack has a very typical Tourniquette riff in it.



mr.snruB
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:40 PM

ORIGINAL: Del Fuvio Monk

Does anyone else think that the chick on the back of the booklet looks like Lucy Liu?  In particular, it looks like her in her Charlie's Angels outfit.


 I thought it was Myung
I am Canadian

Guest
RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 7:46 PM

ORIGINAL: Three


ORIGINAL: remo2112


ORIGINAL: Three

Okay...
This might be obvious,
but take the number 8...
rotate it 90 degrees left or right, you decide
What do you get?
The infinity symbol.
What is the 5th album? Falling into infinity
Maybe the connection is a bit far fetched.. but... maybe... :)


One itty bitty problem with your theory.  Falling Into Infinity was actually album #4.

In Order:
1. WDADU
2. I&W
3. Awake
4. FII
5. SFAM
6. 6DOIT
7. TOT
8. 8V

Nice try, though.


o well.. my bad, but still I think it still goes well with the whole full circle theme ^_^


Well looks like someone corrected themselves. Rotate "8" 90 degrees and you get the infinity symbol..and FII was their 4th album...and 4 if half of 8, so what now! lol

*is ashamed to have nein life*
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grim88
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:22 PM
The beginning of Octavarium (the song) reminds me everytime of a  Kitaro song.

KERMITthePROG
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:41 PM
Not so much a nugget, but the ending to Octavarium is set up in such a way to be easily used for the beginning to a future studio release.

mr.snruB
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:44 PM

ORIGINAL: KERMITthePROG

Not so much a nugget, but the ending to Octavarium is set up in such a way to be easily used for the beginning to a future studio release.


  thats what I was thinking.     The little bass thing first, then the keyboardthing, then that piano chord (I think thats how it goes. I haven't heard the song enough to remember how the ending is exactly yet).
I am Canadian

ras
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:45 PM
Is it just happy coincidence that JLB is f sharp, or is it because the rest of the band ragged on him for killing said note on the commentary for I&W Live in Tokyo, and 5YINL.  Sorry didnt read all of the thread so if this is repeated sorry.

mesavox
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:45 PM

ORIGINAL: KERMITthePROG

Not so much a nugget, but the ending to Octavarium is set up in such a way to be easily used for the beginning to a future studio release.


It is? Sounds to me like it's the same piano note as at the beginning of the album and therefore pretty much only sets itself up for, itself again.

Panic Attack
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:52 PM
My mom listened to 8V this afternoon, she came up with a concept that worked for the tracks 1 to 5.

In track 1, someone tells abou his demons and is being helped by someone in track 2.

In the case of track 3, someone is trapped in a maze and and helped by someone who walks (I walk beside you) along him through the maze.

Here the theory breaks down. Someone is having paranoïa ,but isn't helped by any.


mr.snruB
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:57 PM

ORIGINAL: Panic Attack

My mom listened to 8V this afternoon, she came up with a concept that worked for the tracks 1 to 5.

In track 1, someone tells abou his demons and is being helped by someone in track 2.

In the case of track 3, someone is trapped in a maze and and helped by someone who walks (I walk beside you) along him through the maze.

Here the theory breaks down. Someone is having paranoïa ,but isn't helped by any.



  The spider is what comes to mind when I think of the album.  The Root of All Evil is someone letting their problems become a maze which they can't get out of. Then, like you said, somebody Walks Beside them and they try to break down These Walls, or something like that.  It doesn't work so they have a Panic Attack. They becaome disoriented and in Octavarium they get back to where they started at the centre of the maze.  Of course, I'm probably wrong.
I am Canadian

KERMITthePROG
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 8:57 PM



quote:

ORIGINAL: KERMITthePROG

Not so much a nugget, but the ending to Octavarium is set up in such a way to be easily used for the beginning to a future studio release.



It is? Sounds to me like it's the same piano note as at the beginning of the album and therefore pretty much only sets itself up for, itself again.



You're absolutely correct. I was thinking more along the lines of when ToT ended ITNOG and it had the single piano note. I was like how he heck are they gonna work with that one note on the next album.

OV did a good job tying it in, however I think that the ending/beginning/whatever is just easier to do...

yeah but like you said, it sets itself up again and again for itself....confusing shit!
<message edited by KERMITthePROG on Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:00 PM>

Three
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:03 PM

ORIGINAL: mr.snruB


ORIGINAL: Panic Attack

My mom listened to 8V this afternoon, she came up with a concept that worked for the tracks 1 to 5.

In track 1, someone tells abou his demons and is being helped by someone in track 2.

In the case of track 3, someone is trapped in a maze and and helped by someone who walks (I walk beside you) along him through the maze.

Here the theory breaks down. Someone is having paranoïa ,but isn't helped by any.



  The spider is what comes to mind when I think of the album.  The Root of All Evil is someone letting their problems become a maze which they can't get out of. Then, like you said, somebody Walks Beside them and they try to break down These Walls, or something like that.  It doesn't work so they have a Panic Attack. They becaome disoriented and in Octavarium they get back to where they started at the centre of the maze.  Of course, I'm probably wrong.

 
 
A (nutty) friend of mine got in deep and made a bunch of connections of how he thinks that the spider reprisents Myung and about him keeping to himself, ex: myung is called 'spider fingers' :D, ex 2: the dtfaq.com voices disection thinking of myung as being the ' spider in a window', ex3: theres a pic of a spider seemingly hiding in the corner of the awake cover, ex4: octa-artwork of a spider in an 8 sided maze with 8 rooms and 8 doors, but cannot escape... also it kinda does look like myung on the cover :P
 
he wrote this long hard-to-read post about it on http://boards.ign.com/Progressive_Music_board/b8310/89296343/p1/ about half way down the page with his ideas of connections between these walls and voices (which i personally think has some flaws)

edsmythe
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:34 PM
So when I bought my copy, I was rung up at register #5 of 8 registers at Best Buy.
 
And the release date was 6/7 - what are the two whole numbers between 5 and 8?  Coincidence???  I think not.

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:38 PM
A couple of things...not necessarily nuggets
 
1. how the hell can 2 balls at each end be up???  When they fall and hit, wont that cause them to stop??
 
2. The lady in the booklet looks like john myung doing a james labrie dance move (more specifically on Budokan before he starts singing As I Am on a downbeat) .... cummon u noticed

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 9:41 PM

ORIGINAL: tofee35

A couple of things...not necessarily nuggets

1. how the hell can 2 balls at each end be up???  When they fall and hit, wont that cause them to stop??

2. The lady in the booklet looks like john myung doing a james labrie dance move (more specifically on Budokan before he starts singing As I Am on a downbeat) .... cummon u noticed


If it is Myung we better stop calling him a lady......
    ..........always beware of the quiet ones...

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 10:31 PM
KERMITthePROG it was an entire chord not just a single note, turn up the volume on ITNOG and listen closer. The same chord that ends ITNOG begins TROAE. A chord is fairly flexible acctually O_O.

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:26 PM

ORIGINAL: edsmythe

So when I bought my copy, I was rung up at register #5 of 8 registers at Best Buy.

And the release date was 6/7 - what are the two whole numbers between 5 and 8?  Coincidence???  I think not.

 
HAHAHAH
 
Beautiful
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Possible sychronicity issue on 8V? - Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:35 PM
I was just reading on Fark.com a headline that talked about The Dark Side Of The Rainbow, where you play DSOTM as the soundtrack to The Wizard Of Oz, and watch the coincidences blow your mind.

I wonder if the track 8V goes with any particular film as well?  Just fine a piece of film that is 24 minutes long.  You think this would be the ultimate nugget for DT throw at us?  Most likely it's grasping at straws:  To do something like this would take a LOT of work.

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RE: Possible sychronicity issue on 8V? - Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:42 PM
Dark Side of the Rainbow. 

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Thursday, June 09, 2005 11:59 PM

ORIGINAL: Weymolith

I'm really shocked that no one has nailed this one yet :

The first guitar chord during the intro of TROAE before the drums, is the same guitar chord played during the old WD&DU concert intros in 1989, as well, it can heard on the menu screen for WD&DR DVD


I was getting close, Wey. I kept hearing that chord in my head and acting like Richard Dreyfus in Close Encounters... "This is important... this means something." My co-workers didn't like the mountain of mashed potatoes I made, but eh, screw 'em!

Thanks for helping me relieve myself of this very large and stubborn nugget.
To manifest your dreams before you manifest your fears
To navigate beyond the treachery of self despair
To find the balance between all you sense and all you see
To find the patience and the strength it takes to let it be

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 12:35 AM
So what's up with the chick head-banging on the rear cover?
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 12:39 AM

ORIGINAL: Rycher

So what's up with the chick head-banging on the rear cover?


Simple: The cover has A Fine Piece Of Ass And Balls.
To manifest your dreams before you manifest your fears
To navigate beyond the treachery of self despair
To find the balance between all you sense and all you see
To find the patience and the strength it takes to let it be

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 12:43 AM
So, i've been trying to figure out for a couple days now, not neccesarily what the album is about, but what the hell the Octavarium actually IS.  It seems obvious to me that the last track on the album isn't octavarium, but TRoAE... play it on a full-disc repeat thing, they go seamlessly together, and the end of TRoAE re-introduces a melody from 8VA, closing it perfectly.
 
So it occured to me... the Octavarium is the album!  Easy enough, shit, that is what it's called, right?  It should have been obvious, i mean, it's called octavarium, that's what it is!  But i kept thinking, that's not quite it, it's not deep enough yet...
 
Their career is the Octavarium!  "the story ends where it began".  I'm sure a lot of people did the same thing as me the first time they heard 6DoIT, or ToT, heard it, went "wow, that's different, what is it?"  then as you listened to it more, heard those classic Dream Theater elements in there, so it's farther along in the story, and yet still just like the beginning...
 
But no, it's deeper than that!  I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with Rush's Feedback, an album of cover songs that they grew up trying to play, stuff they used to listen to and the like... and i think that's almost what this could be.  All of the "coincidences" of things in the album sounding like other songs, the MANY mentions of other acts/songs, life, or the progression of music is the Octavarium... all of the things they were influenced by, at the beginning of the story, are still here at the end of the story, coming out in their playing, cause as they themselves said "what we have been is what we are" 
 
I don't know, i think the spider picture shows best what the Octavarium is, because it has many layers, the album is a small part of it, but it's something altogether bigger... i still haven't quite put my finger on it, but this album haunts me in a way SFaM does... not just the music, but the story, the mystery, figuring out what's going on... if nothing else, it is a great gimmick to keep you listening to it, and talking about it, but i agree with other people saying there's something bigger that all of this adds up to. 
 
 
Oh, and i'm glad i'm not the only one who thought the girl neo-dodging the ball on the cover was JM....

Virtuoso80
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 12:54 AM
Just a thought: too bad they couldn't get the album out on May 8th...or August 5th for that matter

Also, someone should bribe someone at Billboard to fix the charts so that the album debuts at #58 or #85

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:01 AM

ORIGINAL: BigDrahma


ORIGINAL: Rycher

So what's up with the chick head-banging on the rear cover?


Simple: The cover has A Fine Piece Of Ass And Balls.


ROFLMAO!!!
"I'm in a glass case of emotion."

BigDrahma
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:12 AM
OH NOS! I founded anuthr NUGGGETT!

8+5 = 13 = How many fingers Jordan Rudess has!!! WOW!!!

To manifest your dreams before you manifest your fears
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To find the patience and the strength it takes to let it be

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:25 AM
Back on topic... I'm not sure this has been mentioned, but has anyone noticed the footsteps on the intro of TRoAE?

And who else thinks the first the songs are Parts III, IV and V of the AA saga? Lyrically, it seems to fit together. TRoAE and TALW are about living another day; TW is about breaking through the prison walls mentioned in all the songs on the series.

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:27 AM

ORIGINAL: Consub

Back on topic... I'm not sure this has been mentioned, but has anyone noticed the footsteps on the intro of TRoAE?

And who else thinks the first the songs are Parts III, IV and V of the AA saga? Lyrically, it seems to fit together. TRoAE and TALW are about living another day; TW is about breaking through the prison walls mentioned in all the songs on the series.


You haven't opened the booklet yet, have you?
To manifest your dreams before you manifest your fears
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To find the balance between all you sense and all you see
To find the patience and the strength it takes to let it be

Consub
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:47 AM
Nope... Its not released here, and I don't think it will anytime soon, so I just imported a copy, and downloaded it for the time being (Since I couldn't wait!).

Of course, I haven't received the actual CD yet, so can you please enlighten me? I hear the booklet is amazing, so I'm looking forward to it.

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:55 AM

ORIGINAL: Three

Holy elderberries batman..
I was looking up album covers, and on the 6 degrees cover is a circle devided into eight parts with 2 shaded in...

http://g.sheetmusicplus.com/Look-Inside/covers/WB-0678B.jpg

draw your own conclusions

 
Your post made me think at the possibilities of signs from previous album covers on Octavarium.  I'M telling you right now, I think I'm stretching here but here are my thoughts anyways.
 
1. WDADU:  represented by the DT logo on the ball (front cover)
2. I&M: The girl on the back cover of the booklet (no I don't think it is JM) could represent the 6 or 7 year old girl on I&W cover but 13 years later (so she would be 19 or 20 years old today)  -  If that's not what she represents, then I have no idea what she is doing there.
3. Awake: represented by the spider  (there's a spider on the front cover of Awake)
4. FII:  The balls on the cover. Usually when they are perfectly align, they will never stop balancing (representing infinity)
5. SFAM: come on guys it's obvious it's the octopus..............no seriously, the only thing I saw is MP is wearing glasses and there are glasses on the newspaper on SFAM  (this is f"@#*n thin as a theory)
6. SDOIT: figure no. 8 which link with the circle on the SDOIT cover
7. TOT: The crows
 
Be gentle!
 
 
 
Why do the Gods, sit back and watch, so many lost
What kind of mother, leaves a child in traffic, turning tricks in the dark
What kind of God?
H

th3x3n0cid3
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 2:10 AM
I HAVE DISCOVERED THE ULTIMATE NUGGET:
 
have you guys noticed that MP is on the note C# (SEE sharp) and he is the only one wearing glasses!!!
PEE POOP

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 4:03 AM

ORIGINAL: tofee35
1. how the hell can 2 balls at each end be up???  When they fall and hit, wont that cause them to stop??

No, they'll bounce back up again, assuming that the collision isn't totally inelastic.  Some energy is lost to heat, sound, and air friction, so the height they achieve on successive bounces is lower.
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 4:58 AM
Was wondering if anyone can make out what the voice in the background says at the 14:00 point during Octavarium?
You can find all you need in your mind if you take the time. [awesome] nar nar nar nar squeedily squeedily dee[/awesome]




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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 5:21 AM
While we are at it, Can we review the Theme of SFAM.  I always thought the album represented a parallel between memory transference( the theory in psychology where memories and i guess dreams are hereditary to the next generation) and the idea of a crime of passion intertwined.  Can anyone else explain the offical meaning of this album, or is there a piece that works for everyone?
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Arkhayne
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 5:37 AM
All your SFAM questions are answered here:

http://www.dtfaq.com/category/12#1032
You can find all you need in your mind if you take the time. [awesome] nar nar nar nar squeedily squeedily dee[/awesome]




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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 5:56 AM
Does the very beginning of These Walls remind anyone of the ending of Misunderstood?

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 6:13 AM

ORIGINAL: Honma

Jesus... you people have too much fucking time on your hands. All I heard on the new album was far, far too much rehashing of riffs, melodies and phrasing. I for one, am sick of it. I don't care how "cool" some people think it is, it's tired, and dull now. DT obviously have the ability to write new shit, I just wish they would.

Call it "call back" or call TSD a "sequel" to TGP, that's fine, but for me, I'm sick of hearing the same little "nuggets" over and over again.

That said, I'm disappointed with this album. It's got it's moments, but on a whole, this would've fit perfectly after FII... and I hate FII.

<waits for the backlash>

 
+1, except for sacrificed sons and parts of the title track 

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 7:06 AM
Duh! Seems no one still has noticed that the numbers on the dominoes are 3+2=5 and 5+3=8. Yeah, pretty obvious.

PS If you think that the person on the last page of the booklet is a guy... man you really need to get a girl

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 7:27 AM
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
if you add the numbers of the total album length (75:48) it is:
7+5+4+8= 24 = length of octavarium
 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
the church bell at the beginning of "talw" rings 8 times
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
koma
 
 

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 7:39 AM
This thread, much like the album, is so long that it's finally started to repeat itself with the same nuggets. OMG ENDZ WEREI T BEGINNSS!!!11
 

I owe it all to little chocolate donuts.

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 8:13 AM

ORIGINAL: Bogie


ORIGINAL: willyjones
3 is also the number of original members currently in the band...


AND THE THIRD IS LOVE - LOVE IS DANCE OF ETERNITYTT

OMG...OCTAVARIUIUM IS METORORPOLIS PRAT 3???!1!?PREGUNTA MARK??!!!1


LOL! Awesome! Now how do those dancing turtles fit in there?


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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 11:35 AM

ORIGINAL: Panic Attack

If you pay close attention, the background for tracks 5 and 8 are different from the rest. Tracks 1,2,3,4,6,7 have all the same "wallpaper" or "Background"

The 3 birds on the domino pic are the 3 original members: JM JP and MP they are looking down on 4 tombs
1. Chriss colins (original dt singer)
2. Charlie Domicci (2nd dt singer)
3. Kevin Moore (1st Keyboardist)
4.Derek Sherinian (2nd keyboardist)

The boy on the first and final page represents us.
Us listening to the album THEN us discussing the album on the message boards.


I just wanted to jump in and say that this post is completely wrong in every possible way.

- How do you see the songs' backgrounds being different?  The dominoes picture is the background of Track 2.
- 4 tombs?  I see 2, IF you count the dominoes as tombstones.  It is also generally accepted that the 3 birds are the three people who left, Charlie, Kevin and Derek.  Chris Collins wouldn't count since he didn't record any official material with them (aka the official studio albums).
- I completely disagree with people saying the kid at the end is "us discussing the album".  It's more like an M. C. Escher painting ... the kid is talking to himself, but only when the album loops ("this story ends where it began", etc).
Hooray for this signature.

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 11:45 AM
 woohooo my first post on MP.com!!
 
so here are some observations noticed by my sister when looking at the album..  pretty intuitive if you ask me....
 
When looking at the Majesty symbol, you will see a V in the center, the Roman numeral for 5 - and there are three vertical lines, or capital "I's " if you will, which when added to the V create the Roman numeral for 8. 

And what the hell is an Octavarium anyway?   She found a reference to Octavarium on the web, while checking "dictionary.com".  OK, here goes.
I found a reference to a religious book, (here's the link:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11203b.htm )  It's called the Octavarium
Romanum, a Roman liturgical book to be used to broaden studies.  The book was first mentioned in the pontification of Sixtus V (1585-90) (Sixtus the FIFTH in fifteen EIGHTY FIVE, 1985 being when Dream Theater was first formed) and then was not mentioned again until it was brought up under Clement VIII (1592-1605)
(That's Clement the EIGHTH) 

 
 
Hmmmmmmmmm

 

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 11:47 AM

ORIGINAL: Idrumbad
P.S. With all of this talk of numbers, 5 points to anyone who can place this reference:
"That's it! 25 is the highest number! If anyone says anything else about it, I'll shoot him."


Mr. Show

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 12:06 PM
I just noticed that the booklet has 8 pages, including the front and back covers. Cool.

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 12:33 PM

ORIGINAL: th3x3n0cid3

I HAVE DISCOVERED THE ULTIMATE NUGGET:

have you guys noticed that MP is on the note C# (SEE sharp) and he is the only one wearing glasses!!!

 
Wow......if that was intentional, MP is really messing with us because he knows what a sick, obsessive bunch we are.

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 12:50 PM
OMG OMG I JUST REALIZE THAT THE NUMBER 8 IT'S THE INFINITY SYMBOL UPSIDE DOWN,OCTAVARIUM IS FALLING INTO INFINITY PART 2 OMG OMG!!!!1111

OMFG!!!!!

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 12:58 PM
HOW COULD NOBODY FOUND THIS BIG NUGGET?!?!



Carpe Diem !

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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:16 PM
first off, that McTavarium post is great. 

Second, I thought I'd sum up all the PLAUSIBLE and SIGNIFICANT nuggets (tell me if I've missed some). This post was actually first made on the ProgArchives forums by me with all original ideas, before being a member of this forum (except where I say otherwise).



We'll start with the cover. As you all probably noticed, when folded out it makes one complete picture includiung front and back. This forms a Newton's Cradle with 8 balls. There are five birds, strategically located. If you imagine the first balls as F on a keyboard, the first bird is F#. This pattern continues with the balls representing white keys and the birds representing the black keys. I'm still unsure as to the significance of the person in the wierd position on the back. Any suggestions would be welcome. All I can come up with is that the theme of circles is present in the way that she is waving her body/hair in circles. It's a stretch, I know.

Then comes the first page. We see a young boy hold one of those can and twine telephones held up to his ear. The line trails off of the left side of the page.

Second page we get credits. Nothing special.

Page 3: there is a treble clef and staff in the top left corner with the key of F minor and time signature 1/8 preciding the text "the root of all evil." The one represents the number of the track. Below this header are the lyrics.

Next page we are presented with the same header except the key og G minor and time signature 2/8 is shown before "the answer lies within." It is all set against a picture of a hillside reminiscent of the cover with two monstrous dominoes in the foreground and middleground. The first dominoe has 3 and 2 on the face (5) and the second has a 5 and 3 (8). This reflects the number of black and white keys in one octave of a keyboard, and also represents the five band members. There are some birds flying around (3), but I see no real significance in this.

The next page has the key of A minor and time siganture 3/8. The next page shows an 8-sided maze with a spider (8 legs) in the center. There are five layers to the maze, again depicting the common 5 vs. 8 theme. There is no way to get out of the maze unless the spider breaks down the walls on the last layer ("Break down these walls for me")

Next page has the familiar header with the key of B minor and time signature 4/8 shown.

Page 8 has the header for panic attack (C minor and 5/8).

The next page has two headers, one in D minor and 6/8 for never enough and one in E minor and 7/8 for sacrificed sons. Never Enough is the first song NOT in the time signature denoted by its track number. (Saying TROAE is in 1/8 and TALW is in 2/8 is scraping by on a technicallity, but still)

The opposite page shows an OCTOpus with FIVE fish and an OCTAgonal sign with the Dream Theater Logo inscribed.

The following page has F minor and 8/8 for Octavarium parts I and II.

Opposite this page is a sheet of grid paper with a very complex structure mapped out (The builing that IS an Octavarium?). At first glance it is obviously the same as the symbol on the CD itself, an OCTOgon with a FIVE-pointed star inscribed. Dimensions are given on a 5:8 scale. The dimensions are a 29 foot and 6 and 3/4 inch square, with right triangles with legs of 8 feet 8 inches cut off. (The 8'8" is actually not explicitly given. Instead they chose to give a hypotenuse of 12'3" which yields, using basic trig, sides of 8'8"). There are spaces in each wall of dimensions 5'8" (again, five vs. eight. these dimensions are also not explicitly stated, but if you take the measure of each square and multiply by 3 you get 5'8"). The rest of the structure's drawing's significance escapes me. Any help here would be appreciated.
Of course, there is one more aspect not specefically related to the structure itself. Around the edge (starting at the left most side and going clockwise) the F Lydian scale is spelled out. Inside the walls are the accidentals that would be present should it be a chromatic scale, one for each point of the star.

On the following page the remainder of 8vm's lyrics are written out (parts III through V).

The final page shows the same boy as the first page, holding the other side of the can and twine telephone, this time talking into it instead of listening. To his right is the list of the five members of DT and what they perform on the CD. The "telephone line" leads off of the right side of the page, symbolizing that it leads back to the first page. Note also that the boy at the beginning is passive (listening) while the boy at the end is active (talking). This follows the album's theme of waking up from a "catatonic sleep."

The inside of the jewel case under the CD slot has an 8 ball with the Majesty logo where the 8 should be.

The back side of the jewel case has a keyboard with the 8 track names on their respective white keys, and the members on their 5 black keys.

a few more things (the following, sadly, were not my own thoughts. Citations to the peeps on MP.com board)

the heartbeat from "These Walls" to "I Walk Beside You" is going at 58 bpm.

the ending to "Panic Attack" is repeated 8 times.

Bell at beginning of "The Answer" tolls 8 times

The 3 birds in the dominoe scene could represent Charles Dominici, Kevin Moore, and Derek Sherinian. Also note that 8-5 is 3.


RoCkuS
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:21 PM
Make that horrible man go away! The nightmares will be return tonight!
Here he comes. Here comes John Wayne. "I'm not going to cry about my Pa. I'm going to build an airport... Put my name on it." Why, Michael? So you can fly away from your feelings?

punman
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RE: Nuggets on Octavarium - Friday, June 10, 2005 1:57 PM

Track 1 -- "The ROOT of All Evil"
Track 8 -- "Octavarium"

Musically, the first note of a scale is the ROOT, and the 8th is the OCTAVE.

Track 5 -- Panic Attack is 8:13 long -- 13 is 8+5 (This one I'm going to leave up to coincidence, that's just too weird.)

Track 6 -- Never Enough ... It's a "down" song, really, very negative -- the 6th of a major scale is the corresponding MINOR key.


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