I think I'd like to know exactly what you would provide as an example of "christian lyrics". Many are metaphorical and tend to not say "jesus loves me". Many others tend to express real life situations- agony, depression, struggles in life, etc. but they do it in a way that says "I'm GLAD I went through all this". Still others tend to call out the wrongs in "organized worshiphouses".

Seriously, I'd love to see some real lyrics that put you off by artists that just so happen to also be Christian.

"..Belphegor, I should note, has been credited with assuring regular bowel movements, so perhaps he might have a lasting effect on constipated mages."

ORIGINAL: Godzilla

I think I'd like to know exactly what you would provide as an example of "christian lyrics". Many are metaphorical and tend to not say "jesus loves me". Many others tend to express real life situations- agony, depression, struggles in life, etc. but they do it in a way that says "I'm GLAD I went through all this". Still others tend to call out the wrongs in "organized worshiphouses".

Seriously, I'd love to see some real lyrics that put you off by artists that just so happen to also be Christian.

Heh, one of my good friends is in an all-girl Christian band called Forever's Beginning, and though their lyrics are much more straightforward Christian, it's really not all that overbearing...then again, that's coming from me, and I'm pretty flexible on the Christian music lyrics.

Anyway, for the lyrics...this is a small bit from a song the girls called "This Guy I Know"

There is the guy I know
It's always a confort to talk with him
He is where I go
When I feel like I cannot escape this sin

There is guy I know
Who supports me in everything I do
"Guard your heart" they say
Well, He is my heart
And I'll do anything for Him

There's another song that they've covered that is much more direct in the statement of how they feel:

Jesus' love is...
All over me, all over me
Your love is all over me

So it really goes up to your interpretation. I know that I listen to some Christian music as well as bands like Tool, APC, etc. To me, it's just music. If it's good music, then what the heck. So, in relation to the thread topic, if Maynard really has found Jesus, then it's great for him, and I hope he can keep rockin' out for years to come.

http://www.last.fm/user/becomethesea

@Godzilla, obviously:

Maybe I shouldn't have said anything, but I really don't know how to keep my mouth shut.

Anyway, alright, you got me, I can't really think any specific lyrics. But this could be at least partially attributed to the fact that I don't listen to these songs long enough to find out what band they are from. I see things on TV and hear them on the radio (if I'm unlucky enough to stumble across the christian rock station) that are really quite overt, however. Granted, there are a great deal that are more metaphoric and extremely well written. For example, you'll never see me say a single bad word about Neal Morse. I don't listen to him, but he's still a rather proficicient songwriter.

The reason that I don't like to listen to even the more metaphoric examples is that I don't connect to them on even a basic level. Yes, they discuss real world situations like struggle, depression, etc. but I think we disagree on the causes, meanings, and solutions to these. There is undoubtedly a very fundamental difference between my personal philosophy and the philosophy upon which christian lyrics are based. The messages resonate with christians, but to me they feel, for lack of a better term, unhuman. I am really into analyzing song lyrics, but since christian lyrics are based upon a philosophy I don't hold, it becomes hard for me to connect with the lyrical message, and I am thus put off. I don't like them for the same reason I don't like satanic lyrics, whiny emo lyrics, and lyrics about "bitches, blunts, and 40's." I just can't connect, and therefore just don't care.

I hope that makes sense. It does to me, but then again I've had a couple beers already...

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT, I love Tool. My friend told me about this at school, and it pissed me off so much. Where is Danny Carey going to go. I doubt the band will continue if Maynard stays this way. DC is easily one of the best drummers out there today. I just don't see him like this:

Danny Carey and Jesus sittin' in a tree.
P-R-A-Y-I-N-G
First comes one guy leaving a great band for a perplexing reason that higely contradicts many of the lyrics he has written and recorded with the band.
Then comes the fate of the unbelievably gifted drummer who may fade a way in music history at this moment due to one members outrageously hypocritical carelessness towards everyone else in the band.

Then comes crap. The end of tool. This sucks so much ass, that one has to visually experience the diameter of the suckers mouth whilst sucking thy rear end. Not to mention the fate of a perfect circle.

[\provacative ranting]

R.I.P. Keith Kitchens

ORIGINAL: P

ORIGINAL: Monk

ORIGINAL: P

ORIGINAL: mesavox

It was posted March 31st, not on April Fools. Several days later and it's still an April Fools joke???? Not likely.

Well, then it IS likely that Tool is dead to me.

If Maynard leaves Tool, then Tool is probably a dead issue anyway. If Maynard doesn't leave Tool then why on Earth would Tool be dead to you? Depending on how profound his "event" was, no one knows the future of Tool or Maynard. Perhaps Maynard found Christ but will attend Church just like every other faithful, but retain his position as lead singer of Tool. Sure Tool may be slightly "unchristian" in the loosest sense of the word and through the eyes of some heavy conservatists, but in my humble opinion, I don't see Tool as the spawn of satan, prince of darkness that the hardliners think it is. I listen to Tool and even know a few other religious who also listen to Tool. Maybe Maynard will just move to political issues and issues of the soul. His last album to me was very spiritual (well maybe Ticks and Leeches wasn't all that spiritual ) and I don't see any reason for Maynard to crank out heavy Christian themed folk songs unless that is the direction he wants to take.

I really hope Maynard stays with Tool. No reason for him to leave unless that's what he wants. If he thinks Tool will get in the way, then he might as well hang it up. But in my humble opinion, I see no reason for him to quit even if he found Christ.

I suppose that I'm operating under the assumption that if the songwriter for a popular band quite publicly declares that he is devoting his life to christianity, his lyrics are going to inevitably become Christian based. And that would ruin Tool for me. It isn't that I think that Tool are a satanic band by any means- I wouldn't listen to them then anyway. But what I do know that I really, really don't like christian-themed music. The reason for this doesn't really matter here. Suffice to say that if Maynard were to sing for any band, not just Tool, with christian lyrics I won't listen.

Yeah it would probably ruin it for me. Because Tool is such a dark, hard band.

Check out my MYSPACE!

ORIGINAL: TheDanceOfMaternity

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT, I love Tool. My friend told me about this at school, and it pissed me off so much. Where is Danny Carey going to go. I doubt the band will continue if Maynard stays this way. DC is easily one of the best drummers out there today. I just don't see him like this:

Danny Carey and Jesus sittin' in a tree.
P-R-A-Y-I-N-G
First comes one guy leaving a great band for a perplexing reason that higely contradicts many of the lyrics he has written and recorded with the band.
Then comes the fate of the unbelievably gifted drummer who may fade a way in music history at this moment due to one members outrageously hypocritical carelessness towards everyone else in the band.

Then comes crap. The end of tool. This sucks so much ass, that one has to visually experience the diameter of the suckers mouth whilst sucking thy rear end. Not to mention the fate of a perfect circle.

[\provacative ranting]

In a way, you are right to be concerned about Danny Carey and Tool with Maynard's rediscovery of Jesus, not limiting his talent, but because of his personal religious beliefs. Followers of any of Blair's Toolband Newsletters are aware that Danny dabbles highly in the occult and rital magick. Obviously, if Maynard has become a Christian, this could create friction between the two. However, it would be my hope that these two are grown enough to deal with each other's differences in religious vision. I personally am not worrying about it because rediscovering Jesus doesn't denote that Maynard will be leaving the band.

Which leads me to my next point. With the exception of "Opiate," I can't think of any Tool songs that take a direct stab at Christianity for Christianity's sake. Read up earlier in the thread for this argument, especially in regards to "Eulogy," "Judith," etc.

What I think people also need to realize is what Godzilla said: That Maynard probably wrestled with this decision for a long time. I don't have a link to this, so you may or may not debunk this, BUT: I did read that Danny Lohner (bassist for NIN live and apparently APC at the moment) wrote that he's spoken to Maynard, and the reasons for his finding Jesus have to do with his struggles of late. His mother died in late 2003 (she was a Baptist and named Judith, btw). He's been dealing with addictions (13 Step), and been battling many personal demons since the release of eMOTIVe. In his time in rehab and solitude, he found religion to be what comforted him and brought him away from his pain. Hence, he has "found Jesus."

As I said, you might debunk that since I don't have a link, and even on the site I read this, there was some questionable material.

My final argument: sometimes, people change. Maynard's older and wiser now than he used to be in the Opiate days. The Undertow days. Even the Ænima and arguably the Lateralus days. He's got a child, and he's lost a parent.

I guess I'm just trying to say "give the man a break" in a much nicer way.

http://www.last.fm/user/becomethesea

Uh I read on Blabbermouth that this was bogus, I'll try and find a link... It was yesterday I think.

ORIGINAL: TheDanceOfMaternity

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT, I love Tool. My friend told me about this at school, and it pissed me off so much. Where is Danny Carey going to go. I doubt the band will continue if Maynard stays this way. DC is easily one of the best drummers out there today. I just don't see him like this:

Danny Carey and Jesus sittin' in a tree.
P-R-A-Y-I-N-G
First comes one guy leaving a great band for a perplexing reason that higely contradicts many of the lyrics he has written and recorded with the band.
Then comes the fate of the unbelievably gifted drummer who may fade a way in music history at this moment due to one members outrageously hypocritical carelessness towards everyone else in the band.

Then comes crap. The end of tool. This sucks so much ass, that one has to visually experience the diameter of the suckers mouth whilst sucking thy rear end. Not to mention the fate of a perfect circle.

[\provacative ranting]

bout Neal Morse. I don't listen to him, but he's still a rather proficicient songwriter.

Hypocritical??? Explain to me just how you know that. Who are you to judge whether or not he is a hypocrite? Do you see how he lives every day of his life?

You know, that's life. Assuming this is all true. People leave bands all the time. People change all the time. Maybe this move contradicts past opinions and lyrics, but I bet you have a great deal of different opinions about things than you had ten years ago. If you do, and you do, then you are a hypocrit? Pleah. That's a bunch of drech.

You people blow me away. This guy may have become something you don't want him to be, so you are going to effectively disown him so to speak, judge him, and criticise his life choices?

If this isn't true, do you think christians are going to gripe in similar form that he is making the wrong choice and should leave Tool? If it is true and he says with Tool, do you think christians everywhere will call him a hypocrite with no care about the rest of the christian world? I may believe that true christianity is THE way to heaven, etc. I may believe in evangelism and want people to know what I know... but, everyone lives thier lives and I don't avoid the local shop owned by a non-christian, or avoid the guy who quit going to church last month and gripe about how his hypocritical carelessness towards how us that do go to church has ruined the world as we know it.

Kevin Wale
Look ma... I'm playin guitar on the interent!
Bipolar Echo
enduvus

ORIGINAL: Firestorm

Uh I read on Blabbermouth that this was bogus, I'll try and find a link... It was yesterday I think.

Here is what it said....

TOOL's April Fool's Prank Has Fans Worried - Apr. 5, 2005

Launch Radio Networks reports: TOOL gave its fans a shock on April Fool's Day when a posting at the band's web site, Toolband.com, reported that singer Maynard James Keenan was not recording with the band because he had "found Jesus." Keenan himself emailed the webmaster of TOOL fan site ToolShed.down.net, saying, "I thought it only fair to inform you first, before you hear it second- or third-hand. Some recent events have led me to the rediscovery of Jesus. TOOL will need to take the back seat. This may come as a shock. I just thought you should know considering all the support you given us over the years."

While most fans took the news as an April Fool's prank, some on various TOOL message boards were honestly worried that Keenan had quit TOOL.

The band is known for posting jokes on its site every year at this time. But it has yet to officially confirm that the Keenan story, which seems like a takeoff on guitarist Brian "Head" Welch's recent decision to leave KORN for the same reason, is actually a fake. TOOL is working on its next album in Los Angeles...we hope.

It's just speculation. It doesn't tell us any more real information than those who have speculated in this thread.

Kevin Wale
Look ma... I'm playin guitar on the interent!
Bipolar Echo
enduvus

ORIGINAL: Become_The_Sea



In a way, you are right to be concerned about Danny Carey and Tool with Maynard's rediscovery of Jesus, not limiting his talent, but because of his personal religious beliefs. Followers of any of Blair's Toolband Newsletters are aware that Danny dabbles highly in the occult and rital magick. Obviously, if Maynard has become a Christian, this could create friction between the two. However, it would be my hope that these two are grown enough to deal with each other's differences in religious vision. I personally am not worrying about it because rediscovering Jesus doesn't denote that Maynard will be leaving the band.

Which leads me to my next point. With the exception of "Opiate," I can't think of any Tool songs that take a direct stab at Christianity for Christianity's sake. Read up earlier in the thread for this argument, especially in regards to "Eulogy," "Judith," etc.

What I think people also need to realize is what Godzilla said: That Maynard probably wrestled with this decision for a long time. I don't have a link to this, so you may or may not debunk this, BUT: I did read that Danny Lohner (bassist for NIN live and apparently APC at the moment) wrote that he's spoken to Maynard, and the reasons for his finding Jesus have to do with his struggles of late. His mother died in late 2003 (she was a Baptist and named Judith, btw). He's been dealing with addictions (13 Step), and been battling many personal demons since the release of eMOTIVe. In his time in rehab and solitude, he found religion to be what comforted him and brought him away from his pain. Hence, he has "found Jesus."

As I said, you might debunk that since I don't have a link, and even on the site I read this, there was some questionable material.

My final argument: sometimes, people change. Maynard's older and wiser now than he used to be in the Opiate days. The Undertow days. Even the Ænima and arguably the Lateralus days. He's got a child, and he's lost a parent.

I guess I'm just trying to say "give the man a break" in a much nicer way.

Your post came up while I was typing.... I think you put it better than I did. :)

Kevin Wale
Look ma... I'm playin guitar on the interent!
Bipolar Echo
enduvus

ORIGINAL: TheDanceOfMaternity

DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT DAMMIT, I love Tool. My friend told me about this at school, and it pissed me off so much. Where is Danny Carey going to go. I doubt the band will continue if Maynard stays this way. DC is easily one of the best drummers out there today. I just don't see him like this:

Danny Carey and Jesus sittin' in a tree.
P-R-A-Y-I-N-G
First comes one guy leaving a great band for a perplexing reason that higely contradicts many of the lyrics he has written and recorded with the band.
Then comes the fate of the unbelievably gifted drummer who may fade a way in music history at this moment due to one members outrageously hypocritical carelessness towards everyone else in the band.

Then comes crap. The end of tool. This sucks so much ass, that one has to visually experience the diameter of the suckers mouth whilst sucking thy rear end. Not to mention the fate of a perfect circle.

[\provacative ranting]

You MUST be kidding me. First of all, what exactly is perplexing about discovering that there may be more to life than materialism and petty pleasures? If there is indeed an Absolute Truth out there, something higher than what meets the eye (and I sincerely believe that Christianity is indeed that Truth), then what exactly is perplexing about it? Simply not believing in it or not wanting to believe in it doesn't make it untrue so I fail to see where your confusion stems from.

Then comes the fate of the unbelievably gifted drummer who may fade a way in music history at this moment due to one members outrageously hypocritical carelessness towards everyone else in the band.

Sure, let's ditch that Jesus guy, who you believe to have died on the cross for your sins and salvation no less, so that I can continue working with somebody who, despite being very talented, should not be my number one priority. And he even practices/supports the antithesis to my beliefs to boot! Way to go!

I apologize for the uncivilness of this next comment, but sometimes I really wonder how you're so dumbstruck at how so many people on the boards get incredibly annoyed at your thoughtless ramblings.

Check out video covers of some of MP Forum's favorite artists :D

Everytime somebody complains about Opeth's vocals, a little part of me dies inside.

On an MTV interview a few years back I heard Maynard say that he was over all the agnst and he was tired of always being ticked off, and his child brought a new perspective into his life, etc... however... I can't say whether I believe this or not...

it's possible, but seems kinda unlikely

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=817502

As proven in the above thread, this is all just a joke. Therefore, Maynard doesn't actually believe in christianity. Thus, DOM's assertion that becoming a christian would make him a hypocrite was actually technically correct.

woah he didnt find jesus afterall. that old prankster

ORIGINAL: P

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=817502

As proven in the above thread, this is all just a joke. Therefore, Maynard doesn't actually believe in christianity. Thus, DOM's assertion that becoming a christian would make him a hypocrite was actually technically correct.

I don't follow you. DOM's assertion was under the stipulation that Maynard had indeed turned to Christianity. I don't see how this being a farce actually validates that assertion.

Check out video covers of some of MP Forum's favorite artists :D

Everytime somebody complains about Opeth's vocals, a little part of me dies inside.

ORIGINAL: xenowang

ORIGINAL: P

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=817502

As proven in the above thread, this is all just a joke. Therefore, Maynard doesn't actually believe in christianity. Thus, DOM's assertion that becoming a christian would make him a hypocrite was actually technically correct.

I don't follow you. DOM's assertion was under the stipulation that Maynard had indeed turned to Christianity. I don't see how this being a farce actually validates that assertion.

It doesn't because it still assumes he can't change. It also isn't correct because he aparently isn't pretending to be something he is not.

The word hypocrite originates in the Greek and it most properly means actor. To assume that his leaving the band because he is a christian can in no way make him a hypcorite by definition unless he is pretending to be a christian when he is not, or WAS(past tense) pretending when he wrote those lyrics in the first place. Since we can't assume what might be if and when, there is no way to say he will be a hypocrite if ever converted to whatever religion, and we can't assume he is really, actually only acting to be cynical and jaded against religion or was in the past.

The whole comment in the first place was nonsensical in meaning, and impropper in usage.

Kevin Wale
Look ma... I'm playin guitar on the interent!
Bipolar Echo
enduvus

ORIGINAL: Ultravioelnt

BS

*yawn*

The car is on fire,
And there's no driver at the wheel.
And the sewers are all muddied with a thousand lonely suicides,
And a dark wind blows.

He did find Jesus afterall. Jesus is an alcoholic and a jerk but I knew if he had faith he would find Jey-Zuss.

ORIGINAL: mesavox

You people blow me away. This guy may have become something you don't want him to be, so you are going to effectively disown him so to speak, judge him, and criticise his life choices?

What really blows me away is that just because some source has STATED Maynard "found Jesus", people have judged him BEFORE he has released anything new. Isn't a new Tool album coming out? Given my past experience, sometimes a person has already made the "commitment" long before they make it public knowledge. If Maynard "found Christ", odds are he found Him a while ago and made it public now. I have a feeling the new Tool album will be Maynard's reflections on his "new spirituality". But oops... nope... "finding Jesus" means crap music with crap morals and fluffy lyrics about faith, hope and love. Who needs that, right? Better to have depressing lyrics about suicide or rape or murder or corruption of the system that to have music about soul searching or reflections. I can only imagine what kind of horrors it would create if just one of our members of Dream Theater was a confirmed Catholic. Oh dear.. I think one is. Geee... that's too bad. If you think Tool will be effected by Maynard's calling, I guess the same must have happened to Dream Theater, right?

wrong! As stated by Everett McGill: "Assumption is the mother of all 'fuck-ups'".

[This post is created with 100% pure sarcasim]

"Bob Hope said freeze and I got numb"

My Flickr Account (updated 9/12/09) / My Blog / MySpace

there is a big difference between a "confirmed catholic" and a born again christian, which most become when they "find jesus" most catholics think they can get into heaven buy goin to church every sunday and taking communion. catholics tend to still live very "sinful" lives as to most born again christians. all of dream theaters music would be deemed of the devil by a born again christian.and if you listened or played in a band of such music you would be inviting sin into your life by these peoples standards. which is why head left korn. why neal left spocks beard. and why if it was true maynard woulda left tool. but thank god he was joking. (trust me i lived in a house with my mom who was born again and i had to go to all kinds of churches and meetinds,revivlas and all sorts as a kid so this really has made me def on the opposite side of the whole deal, so i know what im talkin about here). and catholics are seen by "true christians" as still needing to be saved. so it really is a big difference

ORIGINAL: Moonchild

there is a big difference between a "confirmed catholic" and a born again christian, which most become when they "find jesus" most catholics think they can get into heaven buy goin to church every sunday and taking communion. catholics tend to still live very "sinful" lives as to most born again christians. all of dream theaters music would be deemed of the devil by a born again christian.and if you listened or played in a band of such music you would be inviting sin into your life by these peoples standards. which is why head left korn. why neal left spocks beard. and why if it was true maynard woulda left tool. but thank god he was joking. (trust me i lived in a house with my mom who was born again and i had to go to all kinds of churches and meetinds,revivlas and all sorts as a kid so this really has made me def on the opposite side of the whole deal, so i know what im talkin about here). and catholics are seen by "true christians" as still needing to be saved. so it really is a big difference

Oh boy...

Welp, I'm a born again christian and I don't consider DT's music to be "of the devil."

For one thing, catholics are not seen by default as "still needing to be saved" by "born agains." I know plenty of catholics who believe thier trip to heaven is paid for by the blood.

Another thing, what about John Myung? He stated that Jesus is the most influential person in his life. He has a I love Jesus sticker on his case on LAB. He stated that Trial Of Tears has an outright christian foundation supporting the theme. So, many, many people have pretty much taken all that as his way of voicing his convictions through the band as all the other members do in one way or another. While people can only connect the dots, he sure goes through a lot of trouble to express himself over the years to be just talking a bunch of hooey. That alone pretty strongly supports Monk's thoughts. Especially since people don't gripe for days at a time that Mike won't "let" him write lyrics for the songs despite Mike's continual reinforcing that they can't keep turning the poetry JM writes into song format. Because, JM's lyrics suffered greatly once he stated that Jesus is the most influential person in his life and wrote blatant christian themed song in TOT.

Kevin Wale
Look ma... I'm playin guitar on the interent!
Bipolar Echo
enduvus

Moonchild, it's like prog. Who's the best prog band? Is such-and-such band really prog? Addressing the answers people give about questions like these are quite similar to adressing the asserstions people have about their religious beliefs. No matter how knowledgeable and well informed people are, the answers differ and there are no absolutes.

There's a toilet on the roof.

That's quite a heavy statement to make Twiddle but I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. You're supporting moral relativism, which is an absolutely intellectually bankrupt philosophy. Comparing musical tastes to truth is a faaar stretch. So far a stretch that the comparison can't even be made. Please- don't make analogies between philosophy and music because you just come off as completely ignorant about what you're talking about

Check out video covers of some of MP Forum's favorite artists :D

Everytime somebody complains about Opeth's vocals, a little part of me dies inside.

yea i know there are "born agains" who listen too secular music like metal and convince them selves what they are doing is ok. i mean who wants to give up this great music genre cuz some wackos say its satanic. and trust me i really appreciate the VERY FEW christians who tolerate secular music and dont tell me i need to be saved from it. but i still guarantee the majority of "Born Again " christians would still want to lay their hands on me to deliver me from evil because of my tastes in music. and also we better stop this cuz im sure itll get shut down real soon. tho id love to have an intelligent conversation off forum with anyone that wants to talk to me about it. Moonchild141 on AIM

ORIGINAL: Moonchild

yea i know there are "born agains" who listen too secular music like metal and convince them selves what they are doing is ok. i mean who wants to give up this great music genre cuz some wackos say its satanic. and trust me i really appreciate the VERY FEW christians who tolerate secular music and dont tell me i need to be saved from it. but i still guarantee the majority of "Born Again " christians would still want to lay their hands on me to deliver me from evil because of my tastes in music. and also we better stop this cuz im sure itll get shut down real soon. tho id love to have an intelligent conversation off forum with anyone that wants to talk to me about it. Moonchild141 on AIM

So by born again do you mean "non Catholic" or what?

Because I am a Christian, I know lots of Christians, and I don't know any of them that act in the manner you are describing.

Don't take your limited experience with Christians as a microcosm of the whole.

ORIGINAL: xenowang



That's quite a heavy statement to make Twiddle but I'm afraid I'll have to disagree. You're supporting moral relativism, which is an absolutely intellectually bankrupt philosophy. Comparing musical tastes to truth is a faaar stretch. So far a stretch that the comparison can't even be made. Please- don't make analogies between philosophy and music because you just come off as completely ignorant about what you're talking about

And declaring someone to be ignorant for investigating possible philosophic connections simply because you deem them inferior is a rather sinister form of elitism. Twiddlenutz made an extremely fascinating statement that could lead to an even more fascinating conversation about the elusive nature of absolute knowledge in a post-modern society. Instead you immediately deemed it "morally bankrupt" because it doesn't adhere to the tenets of your religious mythology. I find it offensive that you would so quickly dismiss the beliefs of others even though you would most likely cry foul were I to declare christians as ignorant and their religion as devoid of any rational basis.

Comparing musical taste to the elusive nature of absolute truth in a post-modern society is NOT a stretch- it is drawing a connection and opening up a line of discourse. If we view the entire world as text, as many educated people do, his connection is the opposite of ignorant- it is insightful and meaningful. In fact, there is a class at my university about this entire topic- it is called "music as discourse." I haven't taken it yet, but am confident in saying that personal preference in terms of music is composed of many of the same elements as religion and politics. It is just that religion typically calls for a heirarchical structure that cannot possibly exist in a true post-modern society.

You missed his point. His point was that to say there are no truths is morally bankrupt, because it is first off, declaring an absolute truth. So, it is first self contradicting. Secondly, the idea follows suite in any philosophy. I say, there is no absolute truth. Ok, but what if there is? It's morally bankrupt because there can be no morality. Not that it makes that person a bad person, it just lacks of any moral center.

The idea is, we believe christianity is THE truth. Ok, so for just a moment, let's assume that we are right.

So, I yell at you... "LOOK OUT FOR THAT MACK TRUCK!!!!" Ok, there is a Mack truck headed right for you. You however are behind a rather thin wall that blocks your view and ability to hear it coming. You think I'm just an idiot and say, "there is no Mack truck coming. That's bunk, a Mack truck couldn't even get in this area." Now, you don't believe the truck is coming, but it is. You are going to get hit if you stay there. Despite my warning. Now, I'm sincere in my warning so I try and convince you. I'd rather you not get hit. I think you're a cool guy or whatever.

Now, does that fact that you, and maybe millions of others don't belive in that Mack truck make it not true that it's on it's way?

Remember, we're just assuming we are right here ok?

So, to say there is no absolute suggests that you can live in a different reality than I can. That idea is not scientifically, or philosophically sound. Whether you believe in Christ or not.

So, comparing musical tastes or who I like better than you like is hardly comparing philosophical possibilities of truth.

I used "so," way too much didn't I? LOL

Kevin Wale
Look ma... I'm playin guitar on the interent!
Bipolar Echo
enduvus