Return To Forever Appreciation Thread

I'm listening to "Romantic Warrior" right now and all I can say is that it is amazing. In my opinion they were jazz fusion at its best. I don't know if there was ever another band that surpassed their talent. Lenny White, Chick Corea, Al Dimeola, and Stanley Clarke. Wow!!! What a collection of players. Mahavishnu is a close second for me within the jazz fusion genre as well as Miles Davis' jazz fusion projects. Being somewhat new to jazz fusion does anyone reccommend any other jazz fusion to check out? I know I need to check out Weather Report, which I have yet to do.

"Thanks to our schools and political leadership, the U.S. has acquired an international reputation as the home of 250 million people dumb enough to buy 'The Wacky Wall-Walker'." - Frank Zappa
"Without deviation progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa

I absolutely LOVE Romantic Warrior. I haven't heard anything else by the group but what I've heard this particular album has the best lineup. There is not a song on this ablum that I don't like. I'd so love to be a group that plays like this. I just love the sound of the drums on this baby. So wet and alive.

ORIGINAL: Austin4

I absolutely LOVE Romantic Warrior. I haven't heard anything else by the group but what I've heard this particular album has the best lineup.

genre

You'd be crazy not to check out No Mystery which is better than Romantic Warrior and features the same lineup. The album before that Where Have I known you before is ok but doesn't compare to the latter two. Al DiMeola was 18 years old when this was recorded!

John Petrucci has a lot of Al DiMeola in his playing, especially on his acoustic playing that you hear in Solitary Shell, The show with Jordan Rudess, Hollow Years, Learning To Live. Petrucci though wouldn't have had a chance to learn from Al if Al hadn't worked from Chick Corea.

All that spanish/flamenco influenced playing came from Chick.

Also you should check out Light As A Feather and the self titled album which was before they because a rock fusion band as this music is bossa nova influenced but still very cool!

Thankz for the tip. I'll be looking into that album soon.

While No Mystery is damn good there's no way I'd say it's better than Romantic Warrior. That's an album for all times right there.

I went to one of Al DiMeola's guitar clinics few months ago. The only problem was that the whole thing was set-up like a concert (it was even at a bar) and people were shouting requests at him the whole time.

the RTF album that maybe, Maybe as good as Romantic Warrior, Is Hymn Of the Seventh Galaxy, Featuring a Young Bill Connors on guitar. His playing, and the album, are symply awesome. Check out all Mahavishnu, to me, THEY RULE, also Jean Luc Ponty, Esp Imaginary Voyage, Or Enigmatic oceans, also, Brand x -Livestock, The eleventh House Featuring Larry Coryell, Electric Savage By colosseum 2, Spectrum By Billy Cobham, Hot Rats, by Frank Zappa, The Grand wazoo, and Waka Jawaka, also by Zappa, or Timeless, By John Abercrombie. Also, Blow by blow, By Jeff Beck!!! Theres lots more!!!

I liked No Mystery better than Romantic Warrior. One song made that decision for me: Celebration Suite 1 and 2. My God! So powerful. I love hearing Lenny White's sticks click accidentily in a lot of their recordings. It makes me feel that there was something special in those takes, that was soo good, and spontaneous, White wasn't about to play it again. That's awesome.

I'll get some people disagreeing with me, but White was much more of an energetic drummer than Cobham. White was passionate: when he was into it, he sped up a little, played a little louder, and sometimes clicked his sticks. Who cares? The energy was THERE!!!! Cobham, of course, is metronomically perfect, with carefully structured fills, and maybe that's why he's aged better than White. but damn Lenny is exciting. And his tom sound his HUGE.

I think Corea was a brilliant band leader, and while I wish they had more odd time moments, like Mahavishnu, they certainly have their share. Al Di Meola is obviously awesome on all those albums, especially those solos!

I can't tell you how many times I've been in an ensemble that played Spain, one of the most played standards EVER.

To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield!

All the albums mentioned here are incredible. I have a special liking for Light As A Feather even if it isn't as fusion-based as their later work. Stanley on upright will blow your mind. Also be sure to check out MusicMagic.

John Petrucci has a lot of Al DiMeola in his playing...

Definitly. Listen to Al DiMeola's Race With Devil On Spanish Highway from Elegant Gypsy. You will hear a very familiar LTE riff coming through

RW in terms of influence and craftmanship is about as perfect as I've ever heard a Jazz-Rock recording.

Altho I love Celebration Suite 1-2, Kansas's tune Journey From Mariabronn definitely sounds influenced by that Latin melody.

I still need to hear more albums from RTF besides RW and NM. But I love a lot of the Chick Corea and Al collections I've acquired. If you dig RTF, you likely will dig Al's solo stuff, esp his 1st 4 albums. The Elektrik Band is also very fusiony.

AFA other Jazz-Rock:

Pat Metheny I'd HIGHLY endorse. First Circle and Offramp would be good starters. Paul Wertico is 1 of the tightest drummers I've heard.

Herbie Hancock's Headhunters album is wonderful.

Tony Williams Lifetime - I have Wilderness and The Lifetime Collection. I like both. McLaughlin played with Tony before forming MO and of course they were also together with Miles.

Brand X and if you can find it, Marscape which is listed under Jack Lancaster, but really is the members of BX before they were known as BrandX..1 of the best concept Jazz-Rock albums ever. Also features Phil Collins on drums.

Friday Night in San Francisco, The Rite of Strings are 2 albums to look for acoustic fusion.

Shakti featuring John McLaughlin and Zakir Hussein on tablas.

Kyle

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I'm in on this for sure !

I only have romantic warrior, but it is one of my fave. fusion albums...

This band is So talented, you gotta love chick corea.

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Chick Corea, like Steve Morse, is an American national treasure, and for me, Return to Forever is still the highlight of his career, especially the three albums made by the Corea / DiMeola / Clarke / White lineup ("No Mystery," "Where Have I Known You Before?" and of course "Romantic Warrior"), although "Hymn of the Seventh Gallery" is very nearly as good as those.

I ordered the new Elektric Band album, "To the Stars," from Audiophile Imports last week, and damn if the soundclips don't sound more than a bit like classic RtF. This disc, which is the first in many years by the classic EB lineup of Chick on keyboards, Frank Gambale on guitars, Eric Marienthal on saxophones, John Patitucci on bass and Dave Weckl on drums, should be one of the top five fusion releases of the year, easily. I can't wait to hear it!


-- Jeff

For a nameless dreamer - One thought can change it all To fly and not to fall - Unlimited And for the restless sleeper - There's still one reason why Far beyond impossible - Limitless

Check this out! I heard about this show last week!

Stanley Clarke, Al DiMeola and Jean-Luc Ponty Reunite for ‘Rite of Strings’ Summer Tour.

For the first time since the 1995 tour in support of their only recorded collaboration (1995’s Rite Of Strings), bassist Stanley Clarke, guitarist Al DiMeola and violinist Jean-Luc Ponty will take to the road on an all acoustic tour that will cover 12 cities (and two countries) between June 8 and September 3.


All three players, who are true innovators and among the most influential instrumentalists on their respective instruments, are renowned for their ability to span musical genres, from rock and jazz to R&B and world, although they all do share a strong jazz foundation. A brilliant player on both acoustic and electric basses, Stanley Clarke first came to prominence through his early work with such jazz greats as Pharoah Sanders, Gil Evans, Dexter Gordon and Art Blakey. It was, however, during his work with Chick Corea in Return to Forever that he emerged as a true bass icon. The band recorded 8 albums, two of which were certified gold, and one of which – No Mystery – won a Grammy award. After leaving Return to Forever, Clarke focused on his R&B and funk roots on numerous solo projects and collaborations with George Duke and Jeff Beck, among others, before joining with his Return to Forever band mate, Al DiMeola, and with Jean-Luc Ponty, to record The Rite of Strings. For additional information, check out Stanley’s website, www.stanleyclarke.com


Guitarist Al DiMeola first came to prominence as a blazing jazz player in the early 70’s, through his work with Return to Forever, which certainly enjoyed its greatest commercial success during his two years with the pioneering ensemble. DiMeola’s ensuing solo career has included numerous recordings that earned top honors on the jazz and pop charts, including a gold record for 1977’s Elegant Gypsy. Industry accolades, including top honors in Guitar Player magazine polls, continued to accumulate throughout the 80’s and 90’s, as DiMeola released both solo and collaborative projects with such diverse artists as Paul Simon, Stanley Jordan, Chick Corea, Paco de Lucia and John McLaughlin. DiMeola turned his focus toward a more acoustic world music sound in the 90’s, a natural connection to his work with Clarke and Ponty on The Rite of Strings. Additional information on Al’s career can be found at www.aldimeola.com


Jean-Luc Ponty is widely regarded as an innovator who has applied his unique visionary spin to expand the vocabulary of modern music. Abandoning his early classical leanings for jazz in his native France, he rapidly earned a reputation as the first jazz violinist to be as exciting as a saxophonist. Following several solo releases that cemented his reputation throughout Europe, Ponty’s first US appearance was with the Modern Jazz Quartet at the Monterey Jazz Festival. Collaborations through the 70’s included work with George Duke, Frank Zappa, Elton John, and John McLaughlin’s Mahavishnu Orchestra, before his solo career also flourished, with 12 consecutive releases all reaching the top 5 on the Billboard jazz charts. In the 1990’s Ponty, too, found himself drawn to world beats, in his case the powerful polyrhythmic sounds of West Africa – a sound that he continues to integrate in his solo work to date. To learn more about Jean-Luc, visit www.ponty.com


The trio’s work on The Rite of Strings earned both critical and commercial success, as they undertook a six-month tour of North America, South American and Europe. In November of 2003, DiMeola and Ponty reunited with Clarke at his annual Stanley Clarke Scholarship Benefit concert for Hollywood’s Musicians Institute, which eventually led to their decision to once again head out on The Rite of Strings tour. An itinerary for the tour is below, with additional dates in August still to be added.


June 8: Eastman Theatre - Rochester, NY
June 12: Wolf Trap Filene Center - Vienna, VA
June 14: Hippodrome Theatre - Baltimore, MD
June 16: The Mountain Winery - Saratoga, CA
June 18: Abraham Chavez Theatre - El Paso, TX
June 19: Verizon Wireless Theater - Houston, TX
June 25: Chastain Park Amphitheatre - Atlanta, GA
July 1: Keswick Theatre - Glenside, PA
July 2: Toronto Jazz Festival - Toronto, Canada
July 4: Montreal Jazz Festival - Montreal, Canada
August 20: Detroit Opera House - Detroit, MI
August 21: New York Jazz Festival - Central Park New York, NY
August 28: Royce Hall - Los Angeles, CA
Sept. 3: Britt Pavilion - Jacksonville, OR

http://www.allaboutjazz.com/php/news.php?id=3731

ORIGINAL: STRAT
Check this out! I heard about this show last week!

Stanley Clarke, Al DiMeola and Jean-Luc Ponty Reunite for ‘Rite of Strings’ Summer Tour.

I once, way back, saw a video of them at Newport or somesuch (and I don't remember where I saw it either) and it just SMOKED. I'm ashamed I never got the album, but now I'm thinking I probably should...

Mike

I saw them at Wolftrap in June and the show absolutely kicked major ass. One of the best shows I have ever attended.

"Thanks to our schools and political leadership, the U.S. has acquired an international reputation as the home of 250 million people dumb enough to buy 'The Wacky Wall-Walker'." - Frank Zappa
"Without deviation progress is not possible." - Frank Zappa

I brought this cd out of my collection yesterday and was blown away by how awesome it is. I remember buying it and it didn't do much for me. I gave it another shot and BAM. hit me like a freight train.

Great, great playing and a tremndous production for something that old. I can definately see DiMeola's influence on JP.

I should get that other RtF Cd that people here are pimping as better than RW...damn, if it's better than this...I may have to order a crate of depends!!

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I bought RW about 3-4 years ago and gave it a couple of listens and it hasn't been back since. I'm going to have to give it another couple of spins and see how it hits me now.

Listen to this album NOW!!!

Amazing production for such an "old" album.

hell yes- Romantic Warrior is one the best albums ever.

someone say something funny, i need a sig

The essential Return to Forever albums, as I see it:

"Hymn of the Seventh Galaxy" - Where the band really found itself, with the young Bill Connors ripping it up alongside Chick, Stanley and Lenny.
"No Mystery" - Enter Al DiMeola, a mere 19 year old prodigy from right here in New Jersey. The birth of a legend.
"Where Have I Known You Before?" - Continuing the band's development and further enhancing their reputation as an absolute powerhouse.
"Romantic Warrior" - The pinnacle. Very few albums can be considered absolutely flawless, perfect in every way. This is one of them.

I also like the 2-CD "Return to Forever Live!" set, which was originally released as a four-LP set and is now apparently difficult to find (a look on Amazon shows used copies available for around $50!). It features an expanded and unusual lineup, with no guitar at all, Joe Farrell on sax and flute, Gayle Moran (the future Mrs. Chick Corea) on second keyboards and vocals, Stanley Clarke still on bass and vocals, and Gerry Brown on drums - plus a full horn section! - and epic performances of lesser-known songs such as "Musicmagic," "The Endless Night" and "The Moorish Warrior and Spanish Princess."


-- Jeff

For a nameless dreamer - One thought can change it all To fly and not to fall - Unlimited And for the restless sleeper - There's still one reason why Far beyond impossible - Limitless

RW is indeed a classic. Really amazing stuff.

Try AD's Elegant Gypsy and Land of the Midnight Sun. Great stuff on these as well.

You can really hear Al's influence on JP during SOC.