NFL Conference Championship Weekend

Eli has transformed into a top quarterback in the league. Obviously as a Giants fan I want them to win but what's even better if they do win and Eli has a good game, there is a very good chance with his end of his career numbers that he will end up in the Hall of Fame. That will make Eli haters head explode. LOL! Go Eli and the G-Men!!!

Eli is not playing "well enough to win" he has carried the team for a good deal of their wins. Have him all you want, but Eli had a great season.

Alex Spanos has proven his inability to win; he's been the majority owner since 1984, whereas Wellington Mara is one of the most respected owners in NFL history, a "players owner" and a winner.  A.J. Smith was regarded as arrogant and did not get along with Schottenheimer (who I agree was and is a quality coach) though I don't know if Manning knew that at the time, whereas Ernie Accorsi  (former assistant under George Young) was a proven winner.  As stated, Schottenheimer was and is a good coach, but Coughlin took an expansion team to the AFC Championship game twice, and was a disciple of Bill Parcells, having been an assistant coach with the Giants (don't quote me, but I think he was WR coach during the Giants 1990 SB win).
 
We can speculate all day long, but bottom line is this:  Eli didn't break the rules, and gave the Chargers a chance to save face and get something of value for him. 
 
   

This seems applicable for all the folks ripping Eli: 
 

Stadler

I can't see how you can knock what he did.  He actually put the Chargers in a better position than they would have been in had they not had the opportunity to act on the full complement of facts.

 
Again, all completely irrelevant to the issue, IMO.
 
It's not the outcome that matters.  It's the extreme arrogance. 
 
"I'm not going to play for this troubled franchise.  Don't you know who I am?  I'm a MANNING!"
 
Add to that the fact that he's a NY Giant, and I'm physically incapable of ever giving him any respect.

^ and the fact that he's a winner, that has to hurt, right? If he sucked, this wouldn't even be discussed. Stadler, you'll never win this argument, unfortunately, but I'm totally fine with people hating Eli while he brings this team to ANOTHER Super Bowl appearance (and possible title).

oh if it wasn't for giants fan's it would be easier to root against the pats, which I'll do anyway, but NYG fan be happy and humble, so I don't have to point out the fact that your all about as fickle of a fan base aside from Lakers fans.. 7-7 and there was nothing but whining and "fire tom" chants, and now Eli is better than Peyton and the Giants all ready won this Super Bowl.. watch out.. Brady looms...

Please show me where us Giants fans have said Eli is better than Peyton.  And sorry but when the Giants had destiny in their own hands and lost a game to the Redskins that they did not even show up to, I think it's very valid that we were questioning Tom's control of the team.  There is nothing fickle about Giants fans, we just passionately love the game and the team and we are realistic.  If anyone and I mean ANYONE tells you that after the Giants lost that game to the Redskins, they still had faith that the Giants would be going onto the Super Bowl, they are full of shit.  At that point the Giants were playing horribly.  Since that point they have unquestionably been playing the best football of any team.  So b/c we doubted the teams passion and intensity after they failed to show up against a bad team, does that mean we should not support them when they turn it around?  That's a crock of shit!

Bwahahah enjoy the super bowl... !

Real mature response.  I guess you realized how uninformed you sounded in your post.  Anyhow, I will enjoy the super bowl very much!

Bails


It's not the outcome that matters.  It's the extreme arrogance. 

"I'm not going to play for this troubled franchise.  Don't you know who I am?  I'm a MANNING!"

Add to that the fact that he's a NY Giant, and I'm physically incapable of ever giving him any respect.

Well, that last part may be the crux of all of this. ;)  But the other part, that was exactly NOT how it went down.  He was humble and somewhat embarassed by the whole episode but felt strongly enough about it to see it through.  I don't want to turn this into a "Giants-Eagles" thing, but I don't know how anyone can question Eli as classless or arrogant, when there are players like Michael Vick, Philip Rivers, Jay Cutler, and even Joe Flacco in the league.  Eli made his case, and he did it in a way that still showed class and respect for the Chargers, and he's taking crap for it?  How about how Michael Vick TOTALLY f-ed over the Falcons??
But then again, I AM a Giant fan, so of course I'd see it that way. :)

The Fish


oh if it wasn't for giants fan's it would be easier to root against the pats, which I'll do anyway, but NYG fan be happy and humble, so I don't have to point out the fact that your all about as fickle of a fan base aside from Lakers fans.. 7-7 and there was nothing but whining and "fire tom" chants, and now Eli is better than Peyton and the Giants all ready won this Super Bowl.. watch out.. Brady looms...

Dude, don't doubt what you are saying, - there is truth there - but look back in this forum, and I was calling Eli "elite" while they were  7-7, and I say keep Tom Coughlin till he retires (I was worried they were going to keep Tiki Barber over him).   I'm also the guy that said Eli is better that Peyton, and I said THAT back when they were 7-7 too.  I'll be the first to admit that had I been rooting with my head (not my heart) i'd've thought their trip to Green Bay was the end of the line (I'm going to take credit, though, for calling the win against the Cowboys.  I saw that coming a mile away).

I could name 10 QBs who I think are bigger douchebags than Eli, including his brother. Everyone seems really pissed at him for the draft thing (which I'm sure was orchestrated by Archie) If he was constantly a whiny bitch afterwards I could understand, but I've heard nothing but good things about him as a leader/teammate. Unlike his brother, who threw his entire offensive line under the bus after a playoff loss.

DT2003


Please show me where us Giants fans have said Eli is better than Peyton.  And sorry but when the Giants had destiny in their own hands and lost a game to the Redskins that they did not even show up to, I think it's very valid that we were questioning Tom's control of the team.  There is nothing fickle about Giants fans, we just passionately love the game and the team and we are realistic.  If anyone and I mean ANYONE tells you that after the Giants lost that game to the Redskins, they still had faith that the Giants would be going onto the Super Bowl, they are full of shit.  At that point the Giants were playing horribly.  Since that point they have unquestionably been playing the best football of any team.  So b/c we doubted the teams passion and intensity after they failed to show up against a bad team, does that mean we should not support them when they turn it around?  That's a crock of shit!

Good post.  Giants fans can be tools, no doubt, but please.  I was listening to Philly sports radio Monday, and it was sickening.  The guy (don't remember who it was) couldn't get past the idea that because the Eagles beat the Giants in the regular season, that they should be in the Super Bowl.  He actually had the nerve to ridicule Laurence Tynes for making the game winning field goal!  His logic was that Tynes should get NO praise because it was a chip shot - failing to realize that Cundiff missed essentially the same putt (32 yds versus 31 yds for Tynes) in the  Raven's loss, and this was the second time he kicked an overtime game winner to send the Giants to the Super Bowl.
 
And I am the Giant fan that said Eli is better than Peyton.  I meant it when the Giants were not playing well, and I mean it now.

Did that guy forget the first time the Giants and Eagles faced this year?

Regarding Tynes though, I think he is incredibly overrated. He gets so much credit for the Giants win in the NFC Championship game 4 years ago, yet he had missed two field goals in the 4th quarter, one of which would have won the game in regulation. If the Giants had lost he would have never played another down for them yet when they won he became a hero. I don't get it. Not to mention how come every other kicker can kick the kickoff out of the endzone while most of the time Tynes can't even reach the endzone? And Coughlin (rightfully so IMO) has no confidence letting him try any kick over 45 yards. Tynes IMO is a big liability to this team and it's only a matter of time till he costs the Giants a game. I just hope it's not a big game!

Yeah, I don't trust Tynes AT ALL. He almost missed the first extra point this week, so I really don't trust em. I do love Steve Weatherford as punter though... thanks Jets!

I don't know what people are smoking who claim Eli is better than Peyton... but feel free to share! I'd be extremely surprised if there are any metrics that would lend credence to Eli being the better QB. 
 
 

IMO Eli is definitely not better than Peyton. I do think he is more clutch though, but when Peyton was at the top of his game, he looked like he could complete any pass he wanted, any time he wanted. Eli is not at THAT level yet. He very well could be at some point, but not yet.

DT2003


IMO Eli is definitely not better than Peyton. I do think he is more clutch though, but when Peyton was at the top of his game, he looked like he could complete any pass he wanted, any time he wanted. Eli is not at THAT level yet. He very well could be at some point, but not yet.

Agreed. Peyton was at such a high level for so many years, that Eli has to prove this some more. I couldn't ask for any more from Eli, but he's not Peyton just yet. He's definitely on the right path, but who knows if he ever even gets to that level. Honestly, I will take Eli's clutch gene (in the playoffs mainly) any day of the week, even if his regular season numbers aren't up to Peyton standards.
 
I think they both have amazing abilities to turn pedestrian guys into really good players. Who the heck is Jacob Tamme? The guy rolls off 67 catches in 2010 after Dallas Clark gets hurt (it was 2010 right?) like nothing even changed.

NYCoolRunner

DT2003


IMO Eli is definitely not better than Peyton. I do think he is more clutch though, but when Peyton was at the top of his game, he looked like he could complete any pass he wanted, any time he wanted. Eli is not at THAT level yet. He very well could be at some point, but not yet.

Agreed. Peyton was at such a high level for so many years, that Eli has to prove this some more. I couldn't ask for any more from Eli, but he's not Peyton just yet. He's definitely on the right path, but who knows if he ever even gets to that level. Honestly, I will take Eli's clutch gene (in the playoffs mainly) any day of the week, even if his regular season numbers aren't up to Peyton standards.

I think they both have amazing abilities to turn pedestrian guys into really good players. Who the heck is Jacob Tamme? The guy rolls off 67 catches in 2010 after Dallas Clark gets hurt (it was 2010 right?) like nothing even changed.

But that's just it:  Peyton did turn some pedestrian guys into stars, but he also had some of the greatest players to play their position in the league.  Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Edgerin James, Dallas Clark... these guys are Hall of Famers.  Where is that talent in the Giant offense?  The closest you get is Tiki Barber, and while it is all subjective, I don't put him in the same category as James. 
 
But understand I come from the "Just win, baby" school of thought.  I know you can say "system!" all day long, but if it was just the system, the Patriots would be playing the Saints every year in the Super Bowl, and they're not.  I'm not backing down on my statement, but recognizing it is unprovable, I will say that if Eli is not better than Peyton, they need to be discussed in the same conversation, because the point of NFL football is to win the Super Bowl, and right now, Eli has as many Super Bowl appearances, wins, and MVPs as his more highly regarded brother.   

Football is the quintessential team sport. Judging a QB by Super Bowl wins is a pretty terrible way to do it. Dan Marino didn't suck because he never won a Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are not good QBs because they won a Super Bowl. 
 
The Giants defense is far more responsible for them being in the Super Bowl than Eli.

LiquidDreams

The Giants defense is far more responsible for them being in the Super Bowl than Eli.

Absolutely incorrect!!!  The Giants would not have been anywhere near the playoffs this year had it not been for Eli.  Yes the defense won them the game this past week, but Eli played as good as any QB could when getting as much pressure as he did.  A LOT of other QB's (and even some of the great ones) this past week would have been so frazzled that they did something to cost their team the game.  When the Giants defense was playing horribly (basically the entire season up until week 16) Eli carried this team and Eli is as responsible (if not moreso) for the Giants being where they are right now as their defense does. 

LiquidDreams


Football is the quintessential team sport. Judging a QB by Super Bowl wins is a pretty terrible way to do it. Dan Marino didn't suck because he never won a Super Bowl. Trent Dilfer and Brad Johnson are not good QBs because they won a Super Bowl. 

The Giants defense is far more responsible for them being in the Super Bowl than Eli.

Joe Montana had a top 4 defense 3 of the times when he won the Super Bowl, and the #10 ranked the other. Aaron Rodgers had the #2 defense last year. Tom Brady had the #1 defense in 2003 and #2 in 2004. The only Super Bowl Peyton won also happened to be the postseason the Colts defense decided to play lights out. Every QB needs a good defense to win a Super Bowl, although if Brady wins it this year,  he is the first QB to do it pretty much by himself.
 
I'm not even a Giants fan and I think the hatred for Eli in this thread is astounding. Dude had a fantastic season this year, and the only current QBs to match/exceed his playoff success are Big Ben and Brady.

I am not talking shit about or hating on Eli. I was actually defending him earlier in the thread. I just think claiming he is better than Peyton is completely absurd.
 
Eli had a good year this year. It wasn't amazing, like some people would have you believe. And he certainly did it with great weapons. Hakeem Nicks, Victory Cruz and Mario Manningham is one of the best receiving corps in the league. 

He threw for nearly 5,000 yards, 29 TDs and a 93 passer rating. Maybe I still haven't adjusted to the new Arena Football League stats getting put up, but that seems like an excellent season to me. His receiving corp is sick, but what elite QB doesn't have that? Brady has Welker and two athletic freaks at TE. The Packers receivers are ridiculous. Moore and Colston are a quality duo, but the real scary weapons there are of course Graham and Sproles out in space.
 
And if Eli wins another title, I might not say he's better than his brother, but I would feel confident in saying I'd rather have him leading my team than Peyton.

If you think Eli's year was just good, then you have not followed the Giants much this year.  Many analysts have said that if not for the year Rodgers & Brees had, Eli would be a serious MVP candidate.  Let's not forget that the Giants had NO run game this year.  When defenses aren't worrying about a good running attack, it makes it much harder for the QB to be successful, yet Eli carried this team. 
 
In the 5 games since their loss to the Redskins in week 15 where one loss and the Giants season was over, Eli has thrown for 1,494 yards passing (an average of 298.8) with 12 TDs and only 2 Ints.  Yet he is just "good"

DT2003


If you think Eli's year was just good, then you have not followed the Giants much this year.  Many analysts have said that if not for the year Rodgers & Brees had, Eli would be a serious MVP candidate.  Let's not forget that the Giants had NO run game this year.  When defenses aren't worrying about a good running attack, it makes it much harder for the QB to be successful, yet Eli carried this team. 

Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Stafford all had better years than Eli. He shouldn't be in the MVP conversation. Stafford had less weapons and a comparable, if not worse, running game. 
 
I really don't want this to sound like I am trying to bad mouth Eli, because I'm not. Giants fans are just getting a little carried away, as of late. And Eli has all of a sudden become the second coming of christ. Now, he's better than Peyton? Before last week's game, it was a foregone conclusion that they would beat SF. If it weren't for two colossal fuck ups by a back up special teams player, we aren't even talking about the Giants anymore.

Ravens DC Pagano to coach the Colts http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7503273/chuck-pagano-hired-indianapolis-colts-coach?eleven=twelve
 
Very aggressive as a coordinator, which I always like to see. Should be interesting to see the Colts headed into a more defensive direction. I think he'll be a good coach. I just hope whoever the Ravens replace him with sucks
 
 

LiquidDreams

DT2003


If you think Eli's year was just good, then you have not followed the Giants much this year.  Many analysts have said that if not for the year Rodgers & Brees had, Eli would be a serious MVP candidate.  Let's not forget that the Giants had NO run game this year.  When defenses aren't worrying about a good running attack, it makes it much harder for the QB to be successful, yet Eli carried this team. 

Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Stafford all had better years than Eli. He shouldn't be in the MVP conversation. Stafford had less weapons and a comparable, if not worse, running game. 

I really don't want this to sound like I am trying to bad mouth Eli, because I'm not. Giants fans are just getting a little carried away, as of late. And Eli has all of a sudden become the second coming of christ. Now, he's better than Peyton? Before last week's game, it was a foregone conclusion that they would beat SF. If it weren't for two colossal fuck ups by a back up special teams player, we aren't even talking about the Giants anymore.

Sorry but you're wrong about Stafford.  He did not carry his team the way Eli did.  Without Eli the Giants would not have even sniffed the playoffs.  Again, you must not follow the Giants too closely and do not realize just how important Eli was to this team this year. Please show me where it was implied that it was a foregone conclusion that the Giants would win?  Nobody here is blowing the Giants (or Eli) up as much as you seem to think. 
 
How about this, tell me a team that has been playing better, more consistent football then the Giants the last 5 weeks and I'll shut up. 
And tell me a QB that has been playing better and more consistent then Eli the last 5 weeks and I'll shut up.

Regarding Eli carrying the team...
 
If you live in NY (which I do), everyone on the radio (before the season started) was saying that the Giants wouldn't even make the playoffs. Everyone said that they have such a tough schedule, and that it will be VERY difficult to make it considering they had to play GB, NO, NE, NYJ, Dallas 2x, Philly 2x, SF etc. Did they make it by dominating the league? Heck no.. but they wouldn't have even been close to sniffing the playoffs without Eli leading us to MANY victories in the final few minutes of the game. How many times did the defense collapse late in games this season for Eli to throw some of his 14 4th quarter TD passes (which is a record, btw)?

I think part of the problem is that people who don't get to see the Giants every week like we do just watch them the last 3 weeks and saw three dominating defensive performances so they assume the Giants had a great defense all year and that is what got them where they are.  What those people don't realize is that the Giants defense SUCKED for most of the year.  Giants defense was ranked 25th in the league allowing 376.4 yards/game. 

DT2003


If you think Eli's year was just good, then you have not followed the Giants much this year.  Many analysts have said that if not for the year Rodgers & Brees had, Eli would be a serious MVP candidate.  Let's not forget that the Giants had NO run game this year.  When defenses aren't worrying about a good running attack, it makes it much harder for the QB to be successful, yet Eli carried this team. 

In the 5 games since their loss to the Redskins in week 15 where one loss and the Giants season was over, Eli has thrown for 1,494 yards passing (an average of 298.8) with 12 TDs and only 2 Ints.  Yet he is just "good"

I think even WITH Brees and Rodgers' seasons, Eli is a serious candidate for MVP.  I know, I know, week 17, and I am not suggesting that Aaron Rodgers is replaceable, but you cannot ignore that his backup played one game and threw SIX TDs. SIX.  Giants do not make the playoffs, let alone the Super Bowl, without Eli Manning.

LiquidDreams

DT2003


If you think Eli's year was just good, then you have not followed the Giants much this year.  Many analysts have said that if not for the year Rodgers & Brees had, Eli would be a serious MVP candidate.  Let's not forget that the Giants had NO run game this year.  When defenses aren't worrying about a good running attack, it makes it much harder for the QB to be successful, yet Eli carried this team. 

Rodgers, Brees, Brady and Stafford all had better years than Eli. He shouldn't be in the MVP conversation. Stafford had less weapons and a comparable, if not worse, running game. 

I really don't want this to sound like I am trying to bad mouth Eli, because I'm not. Giants fans are just getting a little carried away, as of late. And Eli has all of a sudden become the second coming of christ. Now, he's better than Peyton? Before last week's game, it was a foregone conclusion that they would beat SF. If it weren't for two colossal fuck ups by a back up special teams player, we aren't even talking about the Giants anymore.

LiquidDreams, easy.  I hear you loud and clear, and know all about "homers", being a Giants fan that lives on Broad Street in Philadelphia. I hear you.  And I am well-versed in the "wins versus stats" argument; my law school roommate was a Dolphins fan and we used to argue who was better: Phil Simms or Dan Marino.  Now, that was for fun and tongue-in-cheek.  I don't really believe Phil Simms is a better QB than Dan Marino, but at the end of the day, what's the point of this league?  I truly do think that the key position is quarterback, and I think there are QBs in this league that will never win a Super Bowl, regardless of how good the defense is, or how good the receivers are.  Whether it is Trent Dilfer or Eli Manning or Dan Marino or Kevin Kolb, you still have to execute, and you have to execute what the game plan says.  True, you will have more options building a game plan around Eli Manning than you will Dave Brown (google it) but you still have to execute, and in an NFL playoff game, there are 75 people on the other side that are dedicated 100% to doing whatever it takes to make sure you do not execute.  I submit that (and I mean this by way of example, not literally) if Dan Marino was better than Phil Simms, the 49ers wouldn't have found a way to hold him to 16 points (whereas Denver could not find a way to foil what Bill Parcells said "might be the best game a quarterback has ever played.")
 
I know there is a little hyperbole there, and I won't deny I am very excited for the game next week.  But please don't dismiss all of the praise for Eli as fanboy nonsense.