What do you think of Adele? (or: Music changes with mood)

colin007


havent heard hardly anything of adeles, but i do find myself looking for more depressing sounding stuff.

my favorite song of all time might be "Into Dust" by Mazzy Star.

I love Mazzy Star!!! And Into Dust is my favorite.  Good call!!!
 
Oh, and I really dig Adele, too. Killer voice!

voodoo

colin007


havent heard hardly anything of adeles, but i do find myself looking for more depressing sounding stuff.

my favorite song of all time might be "Into Dust" by Mazzy Star.

I love Mazzy Star!!! And Into Dust is my favorite.  Good call!!!

Oh, and I really dig Adele, too. Killer voice!

sweet!  yeah, ill put that on repeat sometimes and just drift off into melancholy...god, i sound like a poetry reading dork teenager dressed like The Crow...
 
have you heard the song "Help Yourself" by Death in Vegas?  it has Hope Sandoval singing...incredible...

Thanks for the tip on Death in Vegas.  Just checked it out on Youtube and it is amazing.  Nice to hear Sandoval's voice again
 

no prob!  i love her voice so much, and when the song is right, it seems to slow time down.  her voice, to me, is the epitome of "ethereal"...

My wife bought this a couple weeks ago. This chick can sing! Pretty varied.
Some really nice songs on this. I see why she won so many awards. Bravo!

Not much of a pop music fan but I really like her album 19. Her songs are catchy and she has a fantastic voice. The only songs I know from 21 are the ones I hear in spin class but I really like them. She is very talented.

How she sold as many albums as she did is mind blowing . I just don't get it

ViolinTheater


Incredibly pitchy, with questionable voice control.

ok, Simon. 

Metaldad66


How she sold as many albums as she did is mind blowing . I just don't get it

See, this blows me away (and you'll notice a theme in my replies to this thread).  I've said before, not my bag.  The song played most often near me ("Someone Like You") does nothing for me at all, though I like that "Rumor Has It" song.  But really, why does every thread like this have to devolve into finding ways of bashing someone who's hit a chord with people?  Is it REALLY that hard to see how a young, reasonably attractive woman with an above average set of pipes sharing her emotions doesn't connect on at least some level with people?? 
 
I'm amazed that for a serious set of music fans like this forum that there isn't more of an appreciation - even if it is an objective appreciation - for someone that is involved in writing her own songs and can deliver the performance side of things (see the Grammy's) and actually getting a leg up.  I won't be buying the album or anything, but watching her come out and just stand there and sing her song in a tasteful black dress - no rockets on her boobs, no cage around her head, no f-bombs, no dance troupe miming her moves behind her, or any of the other things that seem to be becoming the norm with female pop stars these days - is to me something to be admired.    

Stadler

Metaldad66


How she sold as many albums as she did is mind blowing . I just don't get it

See, this blows me away (and you'll notice a theme in my replies to this thread).  I've said before, not my bag.  The song played most often near me ("Someone Like You") does nothing for me at all, though I like that "Rumor Has It" song.  But really, why does every thread like this have to devolve into finding ways of bashing someone who's hit a chord with people?  Is it REALLY that hard to see how a young, reasonably attractive woman with an above average set of pipes sharing her emotions doesn't connect on at least some level with people?? 

I'm amazed that for a serious set of music fans like this forum that there isn't more of an appreciation - even if it is an objective appreciation - for someone that is involved in writing her own songs and can deliver the performance side of things (see the Grammy's) and actually getting a leg up.  I won't be buying the album or anything, but watching her come out and just stand there and sing her song in a tasteful black dress - no rockets on her boobs, no cage around her head, no f-bombs, no dance troupe miming her moves behind her, or any of the other things that seem to be becoming the norm with female pop stars these days - is to me something to be admired.    

I don't think i was Bashing her at all . 

MrJose


I've been reflecting over this a bit, because it seems to me that maybe, when I was down, I was listening to music the way most people (especially more women) probably do: My head wasn't involved, just my heart. Compare this to a band like Rush, which is almost impossible to enjoy unless you're being an 'active' listener and getting your head involved.

I guess there's no right and wrong to it, but as a wannabe musical success I can't help thinking: Is this what I'm missing? Have I gone so far into prog-rock and classical land that I distanced myself from the way most people hear music?

I'd be interested to hear some other people's thoughts on this. Also worth discussing: What music do you find you like better when in a certain mood?

While I get what you mean about "active" versus "passive" listening, I wouldn't jump to too many conclusions (especially about "women" and their listening habits).  One of my best female friends can active listen with the best of them (The Lamb is in her top 5 albums of all time), and I know for me, there is no band for which there is a hard and fast rule (with the possible exception of King Crimson) as to "how I listen".  Including Rush. 
 
Just my opinion, but I think there is always a visceral connection to music you like (as opposed to music you respect at a distance), it just may be different viscera.  Meaning, my response to "La Villa Strangiato" is an emotional one, just a different emotion than my response to, say, "Drops of Jupiter" by Train.  I love "Turn Of The Century" not because of my conscious admiration of Steve Howe's guitar, but because of the emotional response I get, one that is caused at least in part BY Steve Howe's guitar.   Does that make sense?
 
That is why I defend artists like Adele and Lady Gaga and what not; art is about communication, and communication is about connection.  Yeah, there are exceptions to the rule, but I think if it was so easy to program or plan for that connection, everyone would do it to some degree.  And I think any artist worth their salt would tell you that regardless of what kind of music they produce, the most important thing is to forge that connection with other people (even if for some that connection might either be a fringe of society or maybe even the other members of the band). 

Stadler

ViolinTheater


Incredibly pitchy, with questionable voice control.

ok, Simon. 

 
I'm sorry that my view doesn't match yours...however, I don't think you need to be condescending and impolite.

Wouldn't the best course of action be to let people like or dislike without needing
an explanation either way?

I think so, emtee....but many times, it is best to clarify one's position so others can see why they think that way....and that is where flame wars start.
 
Stadler, I enjoy reading your posts...you are a very philosophical, well-thought and well-spoken individual, and while we rarely agree on points (I usually never argue back), I can see your points of view, because you articulate your explanations very clearly.  I have noticed, however, that you do tend to get into your share of flame wars here, and perhaps responses like yours to my post instigates them?
 
But I'm not going to complain....you have a lot of great things to say and I enjoy reading them, and the drama that comes along with them , so I'll respectfully bow out of this Adele conversation (as I'm sure many people would want me to, considering my views on her), and leave it up to you guys  Carry on!

ViolinTheater


I think so, emtee....but many times, it is best to clarify one's position so others can see why they think that way....and that is where flame wars start.

Stadler, I enjoy reading your posts...you are a very philosophical, well-thought and well-spoken individual, and while we rarely agree on points (I usually never argue back), I can see your points of view, because you articulate your explanations very clearly.  I have noticed, however, that you do tend to get into your share of flame wars here, and perhaps responses like yours to my post instigates them?

Not sure I'd use "flame wars" to describe the exchanges; if I'm wrong, I'm sure I'll be told.  I try very hard to be respectful of others opinions, and in most cases I either leave it alone or agree politely.  Except in one instance:  when someone's "opinion" is artificially inflated to something it's not, be it a presumed "expertise" in some field, or as is the case in threads like these, some sort of representative statement on an artist, a genre or an audience.  Like the incessant threads that presume because one likes "prog" they are smarter, more worldly, or whatever.  Snobs if you will.
 
I apologize for the "disrespectful" tone of my reply to you; it was more intended as a comment (and agreement) with Bails's post.  No one knew what "pitchy" was or meant until Simon Cowell and Randy Jackson started regalling us with their opinoins on what is or is not good music (you'll note that an American Idol winner is more often than not relegated back to the obscurity they came from, as opposed to superstardom, Kelly Clarkson notwithstanding).  I've no doubt that Robert Plant wouldn't make it out of the audition shows. 
 
Otherwise, thank you for the kind things you did say. 

Metaldad66

Stadler

Metaldad66


How she sold as many albums as she did is mind blowing . I just don't get it

See, this blows me away (and you'll notice a theme in my replies to this thread).  I've said before, not my bag.  The song played most often near me ("Someone Like You") does nothing for me at all, though I like that "Rumor Has It" song.  But really, why does every thread like this have to devolve into finding ways of bashing someone who's hit a chord with people?  Is it REALLY that hard to see how a young, reasonably attractive woman with an above average set of pipes sharing her emotions doesn't connect on at least some level with people?? 

I'm amazed that for a serious set of music fans like this forum that there isn't more of an appreciation - even if it is an objective appreciation - for someone that is involved in writing her own songs and can deliver the performance side of things (see the Grammy's) and actually getting a leg up.  I won't be buying the album or anything, but watching her come out and just stand there and sing her song in a tasteful black dress - no rockets on her boobs, no cage around her head, no f-bombs, no dance troupe miming her moves behind her, or any of the other things that seem to be becoming the norm with female pop stars these days - is to me something to be admired.    

I don't think i was Bashing her at all . 

 
Then I must have misunderstood you. 

i'm fully behind Stadler on this one....
 
Adele has a decent voice and writes her own songs that are very emotional...and people are actually listening to her instead of watching how she dresses or how she dances on stage (she doesn't)...simply put its the first modern day popular singer that is famous for talent alone
 
....now you may not like what you hear...but to try and say that you can never see how she's so popular is to me absurd....i can never see why artists like Black Eye Peas, Christina Agulaira, Britney Spears etc are so popular...but at least admire that finally after years of recycled crap (IMHO), a artist finally formed in the publics mind that is for once original.

I admire her for what she's achieved in today's vacuous entertainment world, but I don't like her music at all. I'm glad she exists. 

ViolinTheater

Stadler

ViolinTheater


Incredibly pitchy, with questionable voice control.

ok, Simon. 

I'm sorry that my view doesn't match yours...however, I don't think you need to be condescending and impolite.

I fail to see how two words and a frown face are condescending and impolite. Your opinion is not shared by all.

socool111


i'm fully behind Stadler on this one....

Adele has a decent voice and writes her own songs that are very emotional...and people are actually listening to her instead of watching how she dresses or how she dances on stage (she doesn't)...simply put its the first modern day popular singer that is famous for talent alone

....now you may not like what you hear...but to try and say that you can never see how she's so popular is to me absurd....i can never see why artists like Black Eye Peas, Christina Agulaira, Britney Spears etc are so popular...but at least admire that finally after years of recycled crap (IMHO), a artist finally formed in the publics mind that is for once original.

I appreciate the kind words.  And while I agree with 99.9% of what you said, I had the opportunity to see Christina Aguilera open for Destiny's Child (I was a chaperone) and that woman actually can sing as well (though in my opinion, I am not a fan of the melisma-style of singing that is so popular with the young kids today).  Certainly better than Destiny's Child, who, in my opinion, were heavily supported by off-stage resources, be them live or Memorex. 

hm..interesting
 
thogh Stadler...the concert for new york after 9/11..destiny's performed Emotions....it was the single most powerful song i've ever seen played (mainly due to the circumstances)

portnoy311

ViolinTheater

Stadler

ViolinTheater


Incredibly pitchy, with questionable voice control.

ok, Simon. 

I'm sorry that my view doesn't match yours...however, I don't think you need to be condescending and impolite.

I fail to see how two words and a frown face are condescending and impolite. Your opinion is not shared by all.

I never said it was.  My apologies for offending you.

socool111


hm..interesting

thogh Stadler...the concert for new york after 9/11..destiny's performed Emotions....it was the single most powerful song i've ever seen played (mainly due to the circumstances)

Actually if I'm thinking of the same thing, I know the performance you are talking about; I don't disagree.  The show I saw was a year or so before that, and was at an outdoor ampitheater in Georgia.  It was more about the choreography than the singing, so different circumstances.  Hey, I could be totally wrong too, I have no proof, but it just didn't seem... real, or maybe genuine is a better word. 

Stadler



I apologize for the "disrespectful" tone of my reply to you; it was more intended as a comment (and agreement) with Bails's post. 

 
Hey man, don't bring me into your argument!

I've been ignoring this 'Someone like you' song for quite a while now, simply labelling it the 'Paparazzi cash in' it is every time I heard it on a night out or wherever. I have to say, I was genuinely horrified to discover how big this song actually is. I just checked it out on youtube to confirm a couple of things. Wow, I fear for the masses.
 
This is rehashing at its most blatant. X factor manipulation in song form. Every cliche/lame trick in the book. Sickening really. When the chorus hits, all I hear is Paparazzi down a semitone but they leave it to me to fill in the vital hook. The songwriter must be the kind of guy that would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around!
 
This girl must have one hellova sob story to account for them there views. Bleh. 

Oh for Christ's sake. First - she writes her own songs.
 
Second - there is more emotion in her voice than a large part of the prog community is capable of. I'm sure I can make fun of more than a few artists you enjoy.
 
Come off it, this is the type of comments and musical condescension that is the cliche of prog nerds. You are obviously not the target audience. Let those who enjoy this music enjoy it, without judging the "masses." 
 
 
 
For the record - I'm not really a fan of Adele's music. Because I realize I'm not the target audience and my tastes do not align with her music. Which is fine. I'm sure her listeners wouldn't get off on some of the music I do. Neither of us are wrong.

I don't hear emotion. I hear a cold manipulative song; nothing behind the eyes. If she cared she'd put some effort into her songwriting instead of just taking the previous year's big hit and coupling it with a verse from the 'my first chord progressions' book.
 
I know I'm not the target audience. It's both the manipulation of the 'target audience' that's pissed me off and the fact that it's obviously worked. Music shouldn't have a fricken' target audience anyway.
 
As for me, I don't listen to prog that much anymore and amn't ashamed of any music that I get pleasure from. I understand how much of an ass I'm being and I'm sorry but I've gotta vent on this 'un for selfish reasons. (plus I've been listening to a lot of Christopher Hitchens today!)
 

It's a basic rule of life that you can be an ass when you're right. And you are way out of line on this. 

Jason couldn't disagree more...you find me a singer singing a song with at least as much emotion...and im sure you can find someone...im asking ebcause i wanna know what you find is to be "acceptable"

socool111


Jason couldn't disagree more...you find me a singer singing a song with at least as much emotion...and im sure you can find someone...im asking ebcause i wanna know what you find is to be "acceptable"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNO_AGQcxhg

+ 1 Jason, just in that I really don't hear the "emotion" in her singing, her specific style just grates on me and sounds cold. Though with better instrumentation backing it than she has I do think it sounds better, if anyone hasn't checked out the "jazz metal" version of Rolling in the Deep on the Youtube, it's pretty badass!
 

portnoy311


It's a basic rule of life that you can be an ass when you're right. And you are way out of line on this. 

I'll admit that I may be wrong about the lack of emotion in the performance even though I don't perceive it that way. I have no way of proving what she put into this. More importantly, I really don't want to have to listen again or check the lyrics. I am right though that this song is 99% unoriginal and is produced to manipulate emotions in a way that is comparable to the editing of an X factor episode.

socool111


Jason couldn't disagree more...you find me a singer singing a song with at least as much emotion...and im sure you can find someone...im asking ebcause i wanna know what you find is to be "acceptable"

I'm not saying that every song has to be deeply emotional by the way. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jItz-uNjoZA)
 
I'll put it this way. To me, if you're gonna use those time-tested chords, you've gotta back up that choice with some serious substance in order to get away with it. The way I look at it is that most people don't particularly hate an average/sub-par tune but you'll be torn apart if you produce an average/sub-par cover of a classic. Add claiming it as your own and uber-cliched production to the mix and you'll soon find yourself public enemy number one. 

never once did Adele's recordings strike me as out of tune. I think the style is really REALLY boring. I've never been much of a soppy ballad fan, but it seems to be where UK music is at the moment. I have to agree, great singer and certainly refreshing for people to be talking about her for the right reasons instead of crazy hollywood-esque promotional stunts and gimmicks

addendum:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/sep11/articles/it-0911.htm 

Jason Gillespie

 It's both the manipulation of the 'target audience' that's pissed me off and the fact that it's obviously worked. Music shouldn't have a fricken' target audience anyway.

 
1) I disagree about an attempt to "manipulate the target audience."
2) However, if I did agree, it's the audience's fault for allowing themselves to be "manipulated."
3) Completely agree that music should not have a target audience.  I've said this for years.  IMO, marketing & music creation should be mutually exclusive.

I don't buy into the idea that people get "manipluated" into liking any particular piece of music.  People like what they like.  Just because you don't like it and other people really really like it doesn't mean they've been manipulated.  They're just not you.  And I really don't buy into the idea that if a certain song sounds a certain way then that is just hands off for everyone else.  Music is a form of communication.  Just like when people talk and use certain idiomatic expressions certain musical progressions are going to be repeated by others.  It doesn't delegitimize them, in fact it's the familiarity that causes them to be effective. 

Jason Gillespie


I don't hear emotion. I hear a cold manipulative song; nothing behind the eyes. If she cared she'd put some effort into her songwriting instead of just taking the previous year's big hit and coupling it with a verse from the 'my first chord progressions' book.

I know I'm not the target audience. It's both the manipulation of the 'target audience' that's pissed me off and the fact that it's obviously worked. Music shouldn't have a fricken' target audience anyway.

As for me, I don't listen to prog that much anymore and amn't ashamed of any music that I get pleasure from. I understand how much of an ass I'm being and I'm sorry but I've gotta vent on this 'un for selfish reasons. (plus I've been listening to a lot of Christopher Hitchens today!)

Look this is the same issue with the other thread.  You don't see the emotion.  Fair enough.   Read my posts on the Gotye thread; I understand that position.  (And frankly, "Someone Like You" doesn't move me all that much either).
 
But you are one person out of 6.7 BILLION people on the planet.  How do you get to decide what's "manipulative" and what's not?  Especially when it is based on something as arbitrary, subjective, and variable as what "moves" you? You do realize the faulty logic of your argument, right?  If everything that doesn't move you is thereby voided, then presumably every person gets that "vote" as well (because you're not special in that regard).  So figuring that every artist has at least one person that they haven't touched with their art....   there would be no music on this planet.  I know for me, if you were right (and I do not think you are) then Bob Dylan, Tom Petty, The Eagles, Gotye, and a slew of other highly regarded and respected artists would be "manipulative".
 
I have an honest, sincere question for you:  you clearly work in the business somewhere, or have some vested interest in music making.  So you clearly get SOME pleasure out of music.   Why would you take a position that seems to want to deny that feeling, that great great feeling of connecting to a peice of music, to someone else? 
 
(And by the way, you want to talk "manipulator" keep reading Hitchens.  ;))

If you want to go down the "unoriginal" rathole, then we can start tossing some of the most highly regarded music ever made, starting with, literally, the entire Led Zeppelin catalogue. 
 
And I will commit blasphemy here, in a big way, because I know how highly regarded he is in this community, but "Song For A Friend" is, to me, heavy handed, maudlin, and over-bearing, in much the same way that "Someone Like You" is.  Sure, the lyrics are poignant and meaningful (certainly to him if no one else), but if that's your example of "contrast" to Adele's song of loss, I'm missing something.  

Bails


3) Completely agree that music should not have a target audience.  I've said this for years.  IMO, marketing & music creation should be mutually exclusive.

I'm curious about that.  Why?
 
I'm in the "music is communication" camp, and one of the basic tenets of good communication is to "know your audience".   I find it hard to beleive that David Lee Roth didn't have a listener in mind when he wrote "Beautiful Girls".  And some of the more... specific (or "extreme" if you will) genres of music... did it ever make anyone wonder that in ALL of Slayer catalogue there's not ONE love song?   Presumably if you are not making music to say something specific to some "group", you're saying it for yourself.  Is it fair then to assume that no one in Slayer feels love?  Because there is no expression of love in any of those songs (at least the one's I've heard).  So what is that music for? Some music is meant to manipulate:  We Are The World.  Ohio by CSN.  Biko by Peter Gabriel.  Anarchy In The U.K. by the Pistols.  Does that make those songs any less valid?  As I read Jason, it does.
 
Now, maybe we're splitting hairs here with the definition of "target audience", because I don't necessarily disagree with the followup that marketing and making should be separate.  I like that idea, actually, in the purest sense.  But to me, "separate" doesn't mean "disconnected entirely".