Metal Evolution: Grunge

@ SeventhSon,
 
Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but what documentary are you referring to?

LiquidDreams


@ SeventhSon,

Maybe I missed it earlier in the thread, but what documentary are you referring to?

Metal Evolution: Grunge
 
Read the original post in this thread.  The OP felt that the grunge artists interviewed were coming off as "total douches" and I agree for the most part.  The coolest people interviewed were the Melvins and they were really innovators that the more popular bands stole from so it makes sense that they would have their heads on straight about the genre.

First of all i have to say that this thread is the most entertaining thing to read in a long time here.Second, i think Grunge was such a Commercial thing in the early 90's and the record industry knew who to squeeze the s*** out of those bands.And it became a fad but it influenced so many bands on so many levels, that you just can't ignore the fact that a lot of what would came out of that era had a big effect on what happend later in Metal/Rock Music.Even if it didn't last long, the impact was there and kids felt connected.And you just can't deny that Grunge has it's place in the History of Rock.Even if you doubt that for some reason, some of those bands are still alive.And like Alice in Chains they still deliver amazing records.I will watch that epiosde tonight to get a closer look at what you guys talking about.And by the way System of a down is freakin amazing i think.They have great hooks, their lyrics might be cheesy at times.But most of them are political.And a lot of riffs kick asz!!!

^^^ If that is your point - and I have to be dead honest, I missed it totally - we have nothing to argue about.  I totally agree with you 100%.  No one form of music is more valid than another IF it is made for the right reasons (though I am probably more open than most as to what are "the right reasons" since I argued that Metallica's The Black Album was not a sellout).

Stadler


^^^ If that is your point - and I have to be dead honest, I missed it totally - we have nothing to argue about.  I totally agree with you 100%.  No one form of music is more valid than another IF it is made for the right reasons (though I am probably more open than most as to what are "the right reasons" since I argued that Metallica's The Black Album was not a sellout).

Yeah, I think we agree on this topic.  I never considered the black album a sell out either.  I looked at it more as a risk that could have backfired huge.  Risk is where progress spawns.  Now, Load - St. Anger was selling out!  Death Magnetic was too really.  Like Van Halen they've become a parody of themselves.  I love those guys though and hate to bag on them too much because I know they are super cool to their fans and still put on a great live show so my hat is off to them really.  I just wish they'd write some *really* good songs again.  Good songs always transcend time and trend.

But see, we go all agreeing and stuff, and then you say something like that.  Writing "good" songs has notihng to do with it.  "Good" is subjective.  Someone somewhere likes St. Anger.  Thinks its good.  I personally like both Load albums a lot.  They may actually be my favorite Metallica, if only for their diversity.  So there you go.  They've BEEN writing good songs all along, so all is good.  ;) 

Stadler


But see, we go all agreeing and stuff, and then you say something like that.  Writing "good" songs has notihng to do with it.  "Good" is subjective.  Someone somewhere likes St. Anger.  Thinks its good.  I personally like both Load albums a lot.  They may actually be my favorite Metallica, if only for their diversity.  So there you go.  They've BEEN writing good songs all along, so all is good.  ;) 

 
You have to pay attention to my adverbs.  I said *really* good songs.  ;-)  
 
 

Not gonna lie, I love reading debates between Stadler and Seventhson. Both are very eloquent and intelligent and are often on opposite sides of an argument. 

Haha, touche!
 
 
 
Thanks for the kind words LiquidDreams.  I enjoy the debate too, and it goes to show that you can have respect and admiration without "agreement".

Totally what Stadler said.  I love these senseless debates, and I learn a lot from them.  I also have a huge amount of respect for everyone in these conversations.  Especially people like Stadler, and many others who aren't afraid to tell it how they see it without personal insults.  I certainly don't expect everyone (or anyone) to agree with me.  I'm not looking for any kind of validation of my beliefs on this forum.  The pleasure comes from having a place to discuss and debate these topics with people who actually know something about music, science, technology, art, cuisine, pop culture, etc...  My biggest thanks to MP for providing this forum for all these years.
 

Now that I've watched the episode, I've got to say they don't come across as douches to me at all. They're all well aware of where they come from musically. Not a single one of them is denying metal's influence. They all love metal, just not glam metal. So, basically like the thrash guys in that department. And as to their opinion regarding the music since grunge, well, they've only talked about Creed, Nickelback, Three Days Grace and the like, and, to be frank, I don't see anything wrong with hating those bands...

I still say, King's X should have been mentioned. When they brought up the drop-D tuning, it's pretty uninformed to not at least acknowledge their impact with it on a number of the "original grunge" bands.

"There was no real barrier between the audience in the bands....every show was just like a party." - Mark Arm
 
I watching the episode right now...and this made me LOL because that's EXACTLY what I said earlier....

angra1


I still say, King's X should have been mentioned. When they brought up the drop-D tuning, it's pretty uninformed to not at least acknowledge their impact with it on a number of the "original grunge" bands.

Ummmm...  I actually play in drop-D a lot (becuase I like the sound) and I got it from Jimmy Page.  I do not like King's X, didn't know they used it, and wouldn't have copied it from them even if I did.  Not to disrespect them, as I get that they are to be admired in a lot of ways, but the point is, they are hardly the only, or the most well-known, utilizers of that particular technique.  And seeing as Zeppelin is acknowledged as one of the main musical influences on the grunge movement, I tend to think the failure to acknowledge is not an omission, or uninformed.