So I heard an interesting discussion on Mike & Mike (ESPN) this morning.  Does the fact that Rodgers backup played yesterday and threw for 480 yards and 6 TDs hurt Rodgers MVP chances?  A few weeks ago Rodgers was pretty much guaranteed the MVP.  But now it's kind of up in the air between him and Brees.  Here are the numbers and just for good measure, I'll throw Brady in as well, although I really think it's just between Rodgers and Brees
 
Rodgers - 4,643 yards, 45 TDs, 6 INTs, 68.3% completion, 14-1 record
Brees - 5,476 yards, 46 TDs, 14 INTs, 71.2% completion, 13-3 record
Brady - 5,235 yards, 39 TDs, 12 INTs,  65.6% completion, 13-3 record
 
I'm not downplaying Rodgers at all as IMO he is without doubt the best QB in the game right now.  But I do think yesterdays game will hurt Rodgers in the MVP voting as it showed that a backup can come in and have an outstanding game with that offense. 
 
So who do you guys think?
 
Based on yesterday, and the fact that Brees had 833 more yards than Rodgers, I think I have to go with Brees, although I NEVER would have thought that a few weeks ago.

I'd say Brady has no shot.  It's kinda crazy - he had a great year, but he can't compare to Brees and Rodgers.
 
Brees numbers are just plain silly, but I think the fact that the Packers had such a great season with such a terrible defense will work in Rodgers' favor.

Rodgers threw half as many picks, had more TDs per yard thrown, more yards per attempt and less picks per attempt.

The picks are the one thing that I think will hurt Brees.  I think if the picks were even Brees would have a much better shot.  Rodgers TD vs INT numbers are just not human.

DT2003


The picks are the one thing that I think will hurt Brees.  I think if the picks were even Brees would have a much better shot.  Rodgers TD vs INT numbers are just not human.

And you could argue that less picks is more valuable to the team. That's less times your fuck up puts the defense on the field early. But if you average out the stats, Rodgers is better in almost every way. Raw yards are cool and all, but on average Rodgers is better.

Brees. If you set an NFL record like that, I think that makes up for the ints.
 
Although it could be argued  that Rodgers had his team in a position so that he didn't even have to play the last game.
 
And if Rodgers had played that game with those same numbers then he would have the single season touchdown record from Brady.
 
But I still say Brees.

T.J.H.


Brees. If you set an NFL record like that, I think that makes up for the ints.

Although it could be argued  that Rodgers had his team in a position so that he didn't even have to play the last game.

And if Rodgers had played that game with those same numbers then he would have the single season touchdown record from Brady.

But I still say Brees.

Throwing for yards doesn't mean you're the most valuable player.
 
MVP=/=best quarterback.

snapple

T.J.H.


Brees. If you set an NFL record like that, I think that makes up for the ints.

Although it could be argued  that Rodgers had his team in a position so that he didn't even have to play the last game.

And if Rodgers had played that game with those same numbers then he would have the single season touchdown record from Brady.

But I still say Brees.

Throwing for yards doesn't mean you're the most valuable player.

MVP=/=best quarterback.

 
I realize that but Brees also had two other players in position to hold single season records and one of them does. Both were due to Brees being quarterback.
 
They are very similar in that they both find the open man no matter who it is and both make great decisions with the ball. I mean look at both of those int stats and think of how many of those were actually the quarterbacks fault. Tipped balls that get picked aren't always the qbs fault and usually aren't.

snapple

T.J.H.


Brees. If you set an NFL record like that, I think that makes up for the ints.

Although it could be argued  that Rodgers had his team in a position so that he didn't even have to play the last game.

And if Rodgers had played that game with those same numbers then he would have the single season touchdown record from Brady.

But I still say Brees.

Throwing for yards doesn't mean you're the most valuable player.

MVP=/=best quarterback.

You also have to factor in the team around you.  I love Rodgers, but when a BACKUP comes in and throws for 480 yards with 6 TDs and only 1 INT, that has to count for something.

3 of Aaron Rodgers INTs were tipped balls. So, half of his INTs aren't his fault.
 
Aaron Rodgers was by FAR the more efficient QB.
 
Matt Flynn is THAT good. That's the most bullshit excuse for someone not getting the MVP.

snapple


3 of Aaron Rodgers INTs were tipped balls. So, half of his INTs aren't his fault.

Aaron Rodgers was by FAR the more efficient QB.

Matt Flynn is THAT good. That's the most bullshit excuse for someone not getting the MVP.

Most efficient does not equal most valuable player. 
I'm not at all saying that Matt Flynn could produce those numbers on a weekly basis, but when a backup can come in and put up numbers like that, to me it takes a little away from how valuable your QB is and makes it more of a team effort.

DT2003


Most efficient does not equal most valuable player. 

So, turning over the ball fewer times, scoring more TDs per attempt, gaining more yards per attempt etc. doesn't make him better than Brees? Have you seen how many more attempts Brees has had throwing? That's almost considered stat padding. Rodgers got pulled out of blowout games, whereas Brees kept pouring on the hurt to chase a record. I'm not saying that Brees isn't classy. But I mean COME ON. I'm not trying to piss on his accomplishments either, but yards mean a hell of a lot less than INTs. And, other than in raw yards, pass attempts, and one freaking touchdown, Rodgers was better.
 
edit: Rodgers was also the one calling the plays yesterday. MVP

I'm going with Brees on this one because the Packers/Lions game on Sunday kinda showed that it's not JUST Aaron Rogers playing that well. He has the supporting cast for anyone to come in and play that efficiently. 

peart=GOD


I'm going with Brees on this one because the Packers/Lions game on Sunday kinda showed that it's not JUST Aaron Rogers playing that well. He has the supporting cast for anyone to come in and play that efficiently. 

Again, Aaron Rodgers was calling the offensive plays during yesterday's game.

So maybe Rodgers should win Coach of the Year too.

DT2003


So maybe Rodgers should win Coach of the Year too.

Maybe making valid points to the valid points I'm making would make for a better discussion. Matt Flynn is that good. He was that good last year against the Patriots. Granted, he lost, but he did a damn good job.
 
If we're going to say outlandish things, Brees throws in a temperature controlled dome for his home games. Rodgers has to play in the elements. Plus, Rodgers can fucking run.

snapple

peart=GOD


I'm going with Brees on this one because the Packers/Lions game on Sunday kinda showed that it's not JUST Aaron Rogers playing that well. He has the supporting cast for anyone to come in and play that efficiently. 

Again, Aaron Rodgers was calling the offensive plays during yesterday's game.

But he wasn't the one in the game running the plays. You can have a great coordinator or qb calling  plays but you still have to have someone out there to execute them. Plus if watch any time the backup is in the game the starter is right there giving him pointers on what he is seeing. That is cool that he called the plays but doesn't give him the mvp.

snapple

DT2003


So maybe Rodgers should win Coach of the Year too.

Maybe making valid points to the valid points I'm making would make for a better discussion. Matt Flynn is that good. He was that good last year against the Patriots. Granted, he lost, but he did a damn good job.

If we're going to say outlandish things, Brees throws in a temperature controlled dome for his home games. Rodgers has to play in the elements. Plus, Rodgers can fucking run.

I'm done making valid points b/c there is no arguing with you.  You are a Packers fan and you will accept nothing other than someone agreeing with you that Rodgers is the MVP. 

snapple

DT2003


So maybe Rodgers should win Coach of the Year too.

Maybe making valid points to the valid points I'm making would make for a better discussion. Matt Flynn is that good. He was that good last year against the Patriots. Granted, he lost, but he did a damn good job.

If we're going to say outlandish things, Brees throws in a temperature controlled dome for his home games. Rodgers has to play in the elements. Plus, Rodgers can fucking run.

 
Brees doesn't have to run.

I'm saying that he was definitely involved. You discredit him because Flynn, who is a very good quarterback, had a good game. I said that Rodgers was calling the plays saying that Rodgers was involved in the game. I'm not saying he should get MVP because he could call the shots for one game. I'm saying that overall, he was the more efficient quarterback, the more versatile, and the one who actually relied on his teammates.

snapple

peart=GOD


I'm going with Brees on this one because the Packers/Lions game on Sunday kinda showed that it's not JUST Aaron Rogers playing that well. He has the supporting cast for anyone to come in and play that efficiently. 

Again, Aaron Rodgers was calling the offensive plays during yesterday's game.

Why does this matter at all? So you're saying if Tim Tebow was playing for the Packers yesterday with Rodgers calling the plays, that he would have thrown for 6 TDs? I doubt that. You still need someone to execute the plays. I voted for Brees, but it was really close with Rodgers. Aaron has some incredible TD-INT numbers, so I wouldn't be surprised at all for that. I just think that Flynn had an AMAZING day because clearly the Lions didn't want to play any defense. Some of those throws by Flynn were perfect, yes, but he's still a backup QB and they weren't prepared for him. Lets give Flynn a few more games of that before we start discrediting Rodgers' whole season saying that it has to be the system.

>brings up valid points about why Rodgers should get MVP and not Brees
>called a Packers fan who won't change his mind
 
Oh, that's where this thread is going.
 
edit: I explained why I brought that point up.

Your valid points are that Rodgers is more efficient.  I get that and I agree with you but you fail to recognize the fact that there is much more to being an MVP than being efficient.
 
And not for nothing but if Flynn were such a great QB, he would be starting on a team, not a backup.

DT2003


Your valid points are that Rodgers is more efficient and you fail to recognize the fact that there is much more to being an MVP than being efficient.

And not for nothing but if Flynn were such a great QB, he would be starting on a team, not a backup.

He's under contract with the Packers? That would be a fucking GREAT reason for not being a starter right now. 
 
I'm arguing that Rodgers was better than Brees and the Packers would not be the team they were this year without him.

snapple


I'm saying that he was definitely involved. You discredit him because Flynn, who is a very good quarterback, had a good game. I said that Rodgers was calling the plays saying that Rodgers was involved in the game. I'm not saying he should get MVP because he could call the shots for one game. I'm saying that overall, he was the more efficient quarterback, the more versatile, and the one who actually relied on his teammates.

 
Really man? That is a lame comment. Your not arguing anything when you say crap like that. Just proving the previous point that you are a Rodgers fanboy.

snapple

DT2003


Your valid points are that Rodgers is more efficient and you fail to recognize the fact that there is much more to being an MVP than being efficient.

And not for nothing but if Flynn were such a great QB, he would be starting on a team, not a backup.

He's under contract with the Packers? That would be a fucking GREAT reason for not being a starter right now. 

I'm arguing that Rodgers was better than Brees and the Packers would not be the team they were this year without him.

But neither team would be where they are without there starting quarterbacks!

<---

snapple

DT2003


Your valid points are that Rodgers is more efficient and you fail to recognize the fact that there is much more to being an MVP than being efficient.

And not for nothing but if Flynn were such a great QB, he would be starting on a team, not a backup.

He's under contract with the Packers? That would be a fucking GREAT reason for not being a starter right now. 

I'm arguing that Rodgers was better than Brees and the Packers would not be the team they were this year without him.

If a guy is "that good" teams would be willing to give up something good enough for the Packers to trade him. 
 
The Packers definitely would not have been the team they were all year without Rodgers, but would the Saints have been 13-3 without Brees?  No way!
 
 

T.J.H.

snapple


I'm saying that he was definitely involved. You discredit him because Flynn, who is a very good quarterback, had a good game. I said that Rodgers was calling the plays saying that Rodgers was involved in the game. I'm not saying he should get MVP because he could call the shots for one game. I'm saying that overall, he was the more efficient quarterback, the more versatile, and the one who actually relied on his teammates.

Really man? That is a lame comment. Your not arguing anything when you say crap like that. Just proving the previous point that you are a Rodgers fanboy.

I meant that. The Packers actually run the ball. Rodgers uses all of his weapons. Granted, I haven't watched many Saints games, but the PA from Brees shows that he certainly has his "go-to" play.

The Fish


<---

Funny how Peyton Manning didn't even set foot on the field this year and he proved that he is probably the most valuable player EVER

DT2003

The Fish


<---

Funny how Peyton Manning didn't even set foot on the field this year and he proved that he is probably the most valuable player EVER

That I'll agree to.

snapple

T.J.H.

snapple


I'm saying that he was definitely involved. You discredit him because Flynn, who is a very good quarterback, had a good game. I said that Rodgers was calling the plays saying that Rodgers was involved in the game. I'm not saying he should get MVP because he could call the shots for one game. I'm saying that overall, he was the more efficient quarterback, the more versatile, and the one who actually relied on his teammates.

Really man? That is a lame comment. Your not arguing anything when you say crap like that. Just proving the previous point that you are a Rodgers fanboy.

I meant that. The Packers actually run the ball. Rodgers uses all of his weapons. Granted, I haven't watched many Saints games, but the PA from Brees shows that he certainly has his "go-to" play.

All 3 quarterbacks mentioned in this thread as well as the one in The Fish's avatar are the best in the league at using everyone around them and I wouldn't say any are better than the other at doing so. It's a sign of a Super Bowl winning quarterback as well as an MVP quarterback. Something they all have in common.

snapple

T.J.H.

snapple


I'm saying that he was definitely involved. You discredit him because Flynn, who is a very good quarterback, had a good game. I said that Rodgers was calling the plays saying that Rodgers was involved in the game. I'm not saying he should get MVP because he could call the shots for one game. I'm saying that overall, he was the more efficient quarterback, the more versatile, and the one who actually relied on his teammates.

Really man? That is a lame comment. Your not arguing anything when you say crap like that. Just proving the previous point that you are a Rodgers fanboy.

I meant that. The Packers actually run the ball. Rodgers uses all of his weapons.

Saints - 2,127 total rushing yards
Packers - 1,558 total rushing yards
 
Care to retract that statement?

DT2003

The Fish


<---

Funny how Peyton Manning didn't even set foot on the field this year and he proved that he is probably the most valuable player EVER

Amen to that!

The Fish


<---

I agree. If only to make up for the multiple awards we now know he's been robbed of.
 
But, the fact is that Flynn really is the best argument for Brees. Until yesterday, I honestly couldn't separate the two. But seeing Rodgers's weapons fire on all cylinders without his engine really did make a point that the Packers have put together an insane offense, one in which Rodgers is a key cog, but not the only one.
 
Still, I don't know who I'd pick. Rodgers did put up better numbers, but Brees probably did more to earn his.

I've always thought that the true MVP (out of these guys and maybe Worthlessburger and Eli) was the one who won the Super Bowl. 
 
We all know that only a QB can be MVP right?

DT2003

snapple

T.J.H.

snapple


I'm saying that he was definitely involved. You discredit him because Flynn, who is a very good quarterback, had a good game. I said that Rodgers was calling the plays saying that Rodgers was involved in the game. I'm not saying he should get MVP because he could call the shots for one game. I'm saying that overall, he was the more efficient quarterback, the more versatile, and the one who actually relied on his teammates.

Really man? That is a lame comment. Your not arguing anything when you say crap like that. Just proving the previous point that you are a Rodgers fanboy.

I meant that. The Packers actually run the ball. Rodgers uses all of his weapons.

Saints - 2,127 total rushing yards
Packers - 1,558 total rushing yards

Care to retract that statement?

Sure.
 
But,
 
Brees - 21 attempts, 87 rushing hards
Rodgers- 60 attempts, 257 rushing yards.
 
And these points are equally important
Rodgers: 1 TD per 12 attempts, 1 INT per 83 attempts
Brees: 1 TD per 14 attempts, 1 INT per 47 attempts
 
 
edit: I'm saying the whole Matt Flynn thing is ridiculous (bullshit). I can't even articulate a post to describe how stupid it is. It was ONE game with Matt Flynn. He is no Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, he's also a really good backup.
 
Reasons why teams didn't trade for Flynn - Maybe high draft picks or something of the sort? Maybe the looming CBA re negotiations? 
The whole system thing is also bullshit. I can count double digit passes that were PERFECT yet dropped by James Jones, Finley and Driver in the last three Rodgers starts. PERFECTLY THROWN PASSES.

snapple


Care to retract that statement?

Sure.

But,

Brees - 21 attempts, 87 rushing hards
Rodgers- 60 attempts, 257 rushing yards.

And these points are equally important
Rodgers: 1 TD per 12 attempts, 1 INT per 83 attempts
Brees: 1 TD per 14 attempts, 1 INT per 47 attempts


Yes but we still keep coming back to the argument that more efficient doesn't necessarily mean MVP.  If the award was based solely on numbers, then yes Rodgers would have to win.  But it's not.  The difference is that yesterday showed that the Packers could put up insane offensive number without Rodgers, even if he was the one calling the plays.  The problem is that we don't know what the Saints production would be like without Brees so we can't really take anything away from him for that. 
 

snapple


edit: I'm saying the whole Matt Flynn thing is ridiculous (bullshit). I can't even articulate a post to describe how stupid it is. It was ONE game with Matt Flynn. He is no Aaron Rodgers. Yeah, he's also a really good backup.

How can you say it's ridiculous though?  To me most valuable player means that without you on the team, you would not be the same team.  But yesterday without Rodgers, they put up better offensive numbers then they did all year.  In a game that the Lions wanted more than anything to win and meant absoultely nothing to the Packers.

The Fish


I've always thought that the true MVP (out of these guys and maybe Worthlessburger and Eli) was the one who won the Super Bowl. 

We all know that only a QB can be MVP right?

They are inarguably more important than RBs and WRs (though not OLs, but who's voting for the true skill players?), but sometimes, other players are so clearly ahead of their peers that they deserve a look. Not this year, though.