Van Halen has some amazing prog riffs

Bails

We'll have to agree to disagree, Seventh.

It's not that I disagree with you, because I can see your point of view, but your point of view is rooted in the idea that you can label music as prog by little more than musical stereotypes.  I believe you can have a 2 minute song in one key, in common time and it can be prog.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I dunno, but I always thought the jam section of Without You was "flirting" with prog.  But IMO, VH is not, nor ever interested in prog.  Hence "There's Only One Way To Rock".  

SeventhSon


Ok, so I've been spinning VH all day because of this thread.  Some of their material is incredibly prog.  Listen to "Pleasure Dome" on F.U.C.K.  Serious prog goodness. 

Another thing to recognize about this song/band is the incredible talent of Michael Anthony.  Here's a bassist that is just plain *sick* on the instrument and an incredible vocalist, but he gets zero credit for his contributions to rock and roll.  Sad.

I agree that MA is underrated for his musicianship, but realize that Eddie started recording all/most the bass parts around the FUCK album. Mikey wasn't even allowed to record bass parts, after a while. (*This, beside the fact that he wasn't even considered a full-fledged member, during the last reunion tour with Hagar. Sammy had to fight, just for him to be included). Then again, if you listen to his playing on the latest Chickenfoot release...the dude can certainly play. And his vocals..? Don't even need to say anything about that. VH are idiots, for not including him in the reunion, though he's certainly better off. The VH brothers are such douche nozzles.

I've never listened to much Van Halen and even though it's miles off I'm getting an 'innocence faded outro section' vibe off Panama plus Lifeson chordal moments scattered throughout. Shame what happened to Eddie.
 
That said, it's more 'Eau de prog' than 'prog' but what's 'prog' really outside bands like Yes and Genesis back in the day?

Hell, really listen to the guitar solo section. in Jump.  My band covered it once for a party, and we were all scratching our heads at the solo for a bit. It's so subtle, yet complex.
 
And watching any normal cover band do it now is hilarious to me because they have no clue what's going on either.

As hard to define 'Prog' is there is stuff which is progressive inside other genres, but not all progressive music is prog. Complexity is an attribute of prog, it's one of the core ingredients, yet a complex riff doesn't make something prog. Isn't there a genre called math metal which is full of time signatures?

The same i'm sure applies to concepts, song length, fantastic lyrics and influences.

I have not read this whole thread yet, but I must say "thank you" to A Change of Stevens for lighting a match to this powder king.

PS: you are still wrong!

I should've known this would turn into a what is/isn't prog pissing contest.  I probably should've used the word "proggy" instead.   Some folks knew what I was trying to say.   Anyway, when the drums kick in on "Right Now," could someone please tell me what beat the ride bell is on?   Miss the beat- you lose the rhythm, and nothing falls into place.   I wonder if this lyric came about when EVH was teaching the other guys the song haha.

A Change of Stevens


I should've known this would turn into a what is/isn't prog pissing contest.  I probably should've used the word "proggy" instead.   Some folks knew what I was trying to say.   Anyway, when the drums kick in on "Right Now," could someone please tell me what beat the ride bell is on?   Miss the beat- you lose the rhythm, and nothing falls into place.   I wonder if this lyric came about when EVH was teaching the other guys the song haha.

Just pulling your chain, dude! I haven't listened to any Van Halen, since 1984 (the year and the album). I have no clue what they did with in Van Hagar except what I heard on the radio....it never interested me.

In the words of David Lee Roth, when you think about really excellent guitar playing, you think of Van Halen, and when you think of Van Halen, you think of David Lee Roth!

I still stand firm in my belief that they're not prog whatsoever.  Innovation =/= prog.  Just because you can loose your footing in the rhythm for a few seconds does not make you prog and that's totally the wrong way to look at what is and is not prog to begin with.  There are plenty of songs by normal bands that I have that problem with, especially in a solo, if I somehow lose the beat then I'm lost for a couple measures, and I like to think I have a pretty good sense of rhythm.  To call Van Halen prog is reeeeally a stretch.  And I wouldn't call anything they've done 'proggy' either.  But to each their own I suppose -- that's just how I feel! ;)
 
Really though, that'd be like calling Guns N' Roses symphonic metal because they were extremely heavy compared to all other bands at the time and used an orchestra in November Rain, y'know, or calling Bon Jovi proggy because there's that strange 3/4 measure right before the key change in Livin' On A Prayer.  I don't buy it. Complexity =/= prog!  Mozart ain't prog, dawg! ;)

"Mozart ain't prog, dawg! ;) "
 
nice, Steely Dan is a group that also utilizes some pretty fancy musicianship, and at times kinda blows up a lot "prog", if were getting into rapid passages of notes and tricky drumming, but it's not prog either.

tomato/tomato...
 
All I know is I am about to go run and I got some VH loaded on my iPod now!

A Change of Stevens

when the drums kick in on "Right Now," could someone please tell me what beat the ride bell is on?

One 16th after 1. Piano also begins song at that spot.

I like the Roth era as the "ultimate party band" VH.

What I appreciate the Hagar-era VH for is music that stretches out a bit (maybe not "prog", per se) - something like "The Seventh Seal."  Kickass stuff there!

Bakerman

A Change of Stevens

when the drums kick in on "Right Now," could someone please tell me what beat the ride bell is on?

One 16th after 1. Piano also begins song at that spot.

 

 Ok, I think you're half wrong, but I finally got it so thanks.   You're right about where the song starts which would make those whole notes which start at 0:10 line up at the same spot (aka the "e" of 1-e-and-a, sorry for the laymen's terms)   But when the drums kick in around 0:35, the cymbal bell is on the alternating eighth note. 
 

It's basically subjective. Why is the song, On the Backs of Angels prog? It doesn't break new ground or stretch any boundaries. It's a great song though.

A Change of Stevens

Ok, I think you're half wrong, but I finally got it so thanks.   You're right about where the song starts which would make those whole notes which start at 0:10 line up at the same spot (aka the "e" of 1-e-and-a, sorry for the laymen's terms)   But when the drums kick in around 0:35, the cymbal bell is on the alternating eighth note. 

 
I was referring to 0:10 thinking ride was hit w/ those notes, but maybe it isn't. 16-16-8 thing at 0:35 is all hi-hat.

My advice is to just listen to it and enjoy it. 
 
Then masturbate, and sleep. Or have sex, depending on your situation. 

spikelineus


My advice is to just listen to it and enjoy it. 

Then masturbate, and sleep.

 
Dude...can you see me?

From what Sammy has said, Ed writes (or used to) write a ton of quick riffs and licks, reels full. I would bet that a lot of the "off time" stuff comes from the band writing a song around these pieces and making it work somehow.