Surprise hearing for the West Memphis 3 tomorrow!

http://m.arktimes.com/ArkansasBlog/archives/2011/08/18/breaking-west-memphis-three-hearing-tomorrow

There was an evidentiary hearing scheduled for December 5th but they just announced this surprise hearing for tomorrow and told family and people close to them they will want to be there.  I'm so excited!  I can't wait to hear what happens!

I will be paying attention closely.

I'm gonna be on the road to Iowa.  Glad I finally got a phone with internet access!

Plea agreement?
 

"A plea agreement is in the works that will likely lead to the release of the men convicted in the murders of three boys in West Memphis in 1993, according to multiple reports.
The Commercial Appeal in Memphis as well as a TV station there reported Thursday afternoon that prosecutors and defense attorneys are negotiating a deal for Damien Echols, Jason Baldwin and Jessie Misskelley.
Already, the three men have been transferred from prison to Craighead County, where they are to appear in a Jonesboro courtroom Friday morning before Judge David Laser, who is set to preside over an evidentiary hearing later this year.
Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley were convicted of the May 1993 murders of three 8-year-old boys. Stevie Branch, Michael Moore, and Christopher Byers were found dead and hog-tied in a ditch off Interstate 40. Echols was sentenced to death while Baldwin and Misskelley were sentenced to life in prison."

Link?

No.  I don't post links here anymore.
 
It's the AR Democrat Gazette.

This could get very interesting.

Two members of the West Memphis 3 will be released from an Arkansas prison after "admitting guilt" in the deaths of 3 Boy Scouts back in 1993 ... this according to local reports.

The WM3 -- comprised of Damien Echols, Jessie Misskelley and Jason Baldwin -- were each sentenced to life in prison for the killings of Stevie Branch, Michael Moore, and Christopher Byers -- whose mutilated bodies were found in a wooded area in West Memphis, Arkansas in May 1993.

For years, Echols, Misskelley and Baldwin have claimed they were 100% innocent of any crime -- and their plight caught the attention of HUGE Hollywood stars like Johnny Depp and Winona Ryder ... who rallied for their release from prison.

There have been several documentaries made about the case ... most of which suggest the men may not have committed the murders.

But now, according to WREG-TV, two of the men -- one of whom is reported to be Echols -- have apparently changed their tune in exchange for their release from prison ... though it's unclear when the men will be released.

It's also unclear WHY the men would be released if they're confessing to such a heinous crime.

Wicked Lester



It's also unclear WHY the men would be released if they're confessing to such a heinous crime.

THIS!  I am always wondering this when plea bargains are made...

If someone said you could get OUT of prison by admitting a murder, why wouldn't you? 

Wicked Lester

It's also unclear WHY the men would be released if they're confessing to such a heinous crime.

 
Because some people in the state of Arkansas see how inevitable it is that there will be a re-trial after the evidentiary hearing in December and they are trying to save their own asses.

rekless fabl

Wicked Lester

It's also unclear WHY the men would be released if they're confessing to such a heinous crime.

Because some people in the state of Arkansas see how inevitable it is that there will be a re-trial after the evidentiary hearing in December and they are trying to save their own asses.

Yeah, I think this is pretty obvious right now.
 
But, how ridiculous that when someone stands by their story of innocence that they are facing life in prison, but supposedly lie and say they committed the crime and poof!  they're released.

I hope it isn't that they cop to the murder.  
 
There should be a re-trial.   There is enough funny business in this case that anything less is ridiculous.

Spunky


I hope it isn't that they cop to the murder.  

 
Isn't that the same as "admitting guilt?"

I really hope they do not cop to something that they did not do, but if I were given the choice to sing and get out, I would say whatever they wanted.
I have backed their innocence for years, and still do

Bails

Spunky


I hope it isn't that they cop to the murder.  

Isn't that the same as "admitting guilt?"

Yes.
 
Would you have preferred me to say that I hope that the report is wrong and they really aren't admitting guilt?  That was the intended meaning.
 
The more I read this the more I think it stinks.
 

UPDATE: An Arkansas Correction Department spokesman confirms that the three defendants left the prison's Super Max unit today in the custody of Craighead County officers for the hearing. The spokesman says the inmates took all their possessions with them. She said inmates leaving with all possessions was "unusual," but not unprecedented. She said it was the first time all three of the defendants had left the prison together since their incarceration.
Scott Ellington, now prosecutor in the case, will be in court tomorrow, but is also gagged, a spokesman said in response to a question about whether he still favored fighting to keep the convictions in place. Actions by McDaniel and Ellington both have political tentacles. McDaniel is to run for governor in 2014. Ellington has been weighing a race for Congress next year.
 
UPDATE II: A Memphis TV station reports that it has had sources confirm that an agreement has been reached that would produce the release of two of the three defendants, but hasn't yet provided other details. Our sources continue to indicate the deal covers all three defendants and that one discussion included the state agreeing to the motion for a new trial in return for an agreement from defendants to plead to charges that would qualify them for release for time served. By still having a conviction — a prospect the staunchest WM3 defenders can't stomach — the defendants would be unable to seek damages for false imprisonment or to participate in profits from books or movies about the case. A common plea bargain tactic is to allow a nolo contendere, or no contest plea, to a criminal charge, which is a way of getting a conviction without an admission of guilt. But it would be highly unusual 18 years after a conviction.
 
UPDATE III: Jackie Byers, wife of the stepfather of one of the victims,tells the Commercial Appeal that she's happy about the plea deal, though she's sorry it will include some sort of admission by the three to something they didn't do. Steven Branch, father of one of the victims, is not happy about the apparent deal, however, and is telling TV stations in Memphis about it. He views the deal as releasing the defendants in return for admission of guilt. The proceeding isn't likely to unfold exactly that way.

Is anyone considering the possibility that they did do it (or were at least involved)?  Or has that ship sailed?
 
In any event, assuming they didn't, there's more than a little "real politik" here.  You can be all pissed about the State not wanting to be sued and having to pay excessive damages, but the easiest alternative is to keep them where they are now.  That to me is a small price to pay.

Stadler


In any event, assuming they didn't, there's more than a little "real politik" here.  You can be all pissed about the State not wanting to be sued and having to pay excessive damages, but the easiest alternative is to keep them where they are now.  That to me is a small price to pay.

Am I naive in just asking that they re-try the case in another court room far away with a more impartial jury and judge?
 
Then, if they are guilty, the evidence would show it, and if they're not, they're free and get to sue.
 
You know, justice.

Stadler


Is anyone considering the possibility that they did do it (or were at least involved)? 

 
Raises Hand. I have read / watched the same documentaries and interviews that everyone else has and am perfectly fine with the convictions. That is all I am going to say and most likely will not respond to criticism or questions about my opinion from here on out just due to the fact of the passion behind their innocence movement is very fervent.....I don't want to start a huge argument and get the thread locked. I respect those of you who believe thier innocent...that's your opinion. Mine is the opposite.

Is anyone considering the possibility that they did do it (or were at least involved)?  Or has that ship sailed?

 
I think it more likely they are innocent than guilty.  But, I'm for a new trial to put all that to rest.  There are enough question marks and impropriety that needs to be addressed.
 

In any event, assuming they didn't, there's more than a little "real politik" here.  You can be all pissed about the State not wanting to be sued and having to pay excessive damages, but the easiest alternative is to keep them where they are now.  That to me is a small price to pay.

 
No doubt if I were in their place, I'd probably cop too for a get out of jail card.  Hell, I bet it happens more often than we'd like to admit in our judicial system.
 
However...I live in AR.  Every fucking day I read about corruption in this state.   I want these questions answered.  I don't want another 'sweep under the rug' bullshit.
 

That is all I am going to say and most likely will not respond to criticism or questions about my opinion from here on out

 
That's too bad.  I'd be interested to hear your reasons.  Even the kids families believe these guys are innocent.  Well, except for one of the uncles, I believe.

Holds up a sign that says "No Contest or Guilty in exchange for Freedom and we riot!"

The buzz is looking like a No Contest plea to lesser charges with time served.  I really hope the buzz is wrong, but I'll still be extremely glad to see them free.  Or at least as free as anyone is when they are an ex-con.

No contest works.
 
Shame that they'll never work again, however.

But...what if they did do it?
 
Why lie, under oath, just to be released? If they're innocent, they should fight until the bitter end, and not agree to a new plea-deal just to be released.  And, they can't be retried, as it would be double-jeopardy.
 
 

I cannot fucking believe this travesty continues to develop.  I'm sure the guys want out bad, but any sort of plea deal will cause me to lose a lot of empathy for their plight.  However, if they are free, they don't need my empathy anyway, so there you go.
I was convinced they were innocent, if they plea now, I just don't know anymore.

If I were in Damien's shoes, I would do the same thing. (assuming the No Contest plea is more than just a rumor)  The guy is sentenced to death by lethal injection.  He hasn't been outside longer than it takes to walk to a police car to go to court.   Is the evidentiary hearing in December likely to get them a re-trial?  Absolutely.  But a re-trial is no guarantee.  Not to mention, a trial can be stretched out for a very long period of time. 
 
If I had been imprisoned for a crime I didn't commit and had already spent 18 years of my life locked up (a good chuck of that time, being physically and sexually abused, no less) and someone told me I didn't have to plead guilty and I could be free in a couple days..... well, I don't think there's too many people in the world who would say no to that.  I would be sad that nobody was brought to justice, but I'd be chomping at the bit to get the fuck out of that place.

dano1427


But...what if they did do it?

Why lie, under oath, just to be released? If they're innocent, they should fight until the bitter end, and not agree to a new plea-deal just to be released.  And, they can't be retried, as it would be double-jeopardy.

Umm...okay....
 
First of all, you would lie, under oath, for the guarantee of being freed.  I'm guessing that, after spending years in jail, the idea of getting out of jail is rather appealing.
 
Second, WTF are you talking about with the "double jeopardy" thing?  Are you talking about a re-trial?  That would be in the 3's favor.  People want a re-trial because they feel the first trial(s) were a travesty of justice.  The idea of "double jeopardy" applies when you have been found not guilty of a crime - you can't be tried again.  You know, like O.J.  The 3 haven't been found not guilty.

Stadler


Is anyone considering the possibility that they did do it (or were at least involved)?  Or has that ship sailed?

 
If they did do it, it would make them superhuman. 
 
Being in several places at once, somehow not leaving a shred of physical evidence at the scene, or how about in Jesse's confession where he says they road their bikes over the bridge which is nothing more than a pipe which is difficult to walk over let alone with a bike let alone ON A BIKE.
 
Then again, maybe they are super human from their satanic sacrifices of little kids and animals and that devil music they listen to. 

They probably want some admission of guilt to avoid being sued by these guys when they get out.

Gravy


They probably want some admission of guilt to avoid being sued by these guys when they get out.

They also are legally not allowed to profit off any media deals. They can't sell their stories, book rights, profit off interviews about the "inside," etc. 
 
 
I don't really know too much about this case. I do know that from what I can tell it does seem like the boys didn't get a fair trial. It also seems like there was something shady about those 3. I don't know anything near enough to comment. 

It also raises the question - if these 3 didn't do it - who did? Why is that never brought up? If they're not giving admissions of guilt - that means the state has opened up the possibility someone else did it. Is an investigation going to be reopened?
 
I'll also say that I am somewhat annoyed at the notoriety this case has received. Yes, it is a horrible horrible travesty of justice. But it is not the only one our country has had. We've had multiple people released after 20 years of wrongly being imprisoned. Usually with no fanfare or even people who care except their family members and lawyers. But it seems like this WM3 are the ones it's "en vogue" to care about. People wax philosophically about their release, and just pass by the other injustices that we see. I think a large part of it is the timing of this case. We were going through the grunge movement, when it was cool to revolt, and some of the grunge artists latched on to it. If the WM3 are free it'd be great, but do I expect any of these people to move their focus on to the other wrongly accused / convicted prisoners in our system? Not a chance in hell. So if you truly deep down believe they are innocent, and they are released, ask yourself why you are truly happy. Ask yourself if you care about any of the others in similar situations, or are just celebrating about the mystique around this case.

 

@ portnoy311
 
One word: W3rd!

portnoy311

It also raises the question - if these 3 didn't do it - who did? Why is that never brought up?

It is brought up all the time.  There has been serious independent investigation done on Mark John Byers and Terry Hobbs, but since the state of Arkansas has stuck to their guns about having "the right guys", the case is essentially closed.
 

it seems like this WM3 are the ones it's "en vogue" to care about. People wax philosophically about their release, and just pass by the other injustices that we see. I think a large part of it is the timing of this case. We were going through the grunge movement, when it was cool to revolt, and some of the grunge artists latched on to it.

It's not about being "en vogue".  Ultimately it's HBO's fault.  If they had never come along and filmed Paradise Lost, the case would've faded into obscurity and Damien would've gotten the needle long ago.  But HBO filmed it and it was released.  And some people saw it and it struck them.  So they told people.  And then THEY told people.  And it was repeatedly aired on HBO so more and more people kept seeing it.  That's not the norm for cases like this.
 
Personally, I latched onto the case so hard because it terrified me how much alike me and my friends were to Damien and Jason. (Not so much with Jessie though).  We were a little weird.  Wore black.  Listened to metal.  I was into reading about different religions including witchcraft and Buddhism. 
 
I watched the Paradise Lost documentary and saw clear as day how easy it was for someone (I believe) innocent to be convicted of a crime they didn't commit and it stuck with me.  Next thing I knew, I was reading everything I could find on the trial. 
 

If the WM3 are free it'd be great, but do I expect any of these people to move their focus on to the other wrongly accused / convicted prisoners in our system? Not a chance in hell. So if you truly deep down believe they are innocent, and they are released, ask yourself why you are truly happy. Ask yourself if you care about any of the others in similar situations, or are just celebrating about the mystique around this case.

I didn't go out looking for this case.  I wasn't particularly interested in the legal system, and I already didn't like cops, so that was nothing new.  This story quite literally fell into my lap one day when me and my brother were channel surfing.  The story of the WM3 stuck for me because of the similarities I saw in their lives to my life.  Right down to being poor, white trash.  Do I intend to seek out other cases with similar injustice?  Not really, no.  But if someone brought another case to my attention and it happened to stick with me the way the WM3 did, I would invest just as much energy into informing people about it as I have for the WM3. (Which is a fairly significant amount of time.)

Unfortunately it seems this whole ordeal is going to be raised to the position of legend and most likely go unsolved.

This entire story really pisses me off. What pisses me off the most is that anyone is confessing to anything. I know it must be nice to get out, and you'd say anything to get out, and I understand that but it makes me sad that it comes to any confession. 

portnoy311

I'll also say that I am somewhat annoyed at the notoriety this case has received. Yes, it is a horrible horrible travesty of justice. But it is not the only one our country has had. We've had multiple people released after 20 years of wrongly being imprisoned. Usually with no fanfare or even people who care except their family members and lawyers.

 
True.  But I think in many of those cases the new evidence comes to light & the innocent party is released within a relatively short time-frame.  This case is different.
 

But it seems like this WM3 are the ones it's "en vogue" to care about. People wax philosophically about their release, and just pass by the other injustices that we see.

 
I disagree.
 

If the WM3 are free it'd be great, but do I expect any of these people to move their focus on to the other wrongly accused / convicted prisoners in our system? Not a chance in hell.

 
There are whole organizations dedicated to just such a thing.
 

So if you truly deep down believe they are innocent, and they are released, ask yourself why you are truly happy.

 
Well, I would expect because everybody wants justice.  If they are innocent, there is no way in hell they should be in jail.  Then again, if they are guilty, there is no way in hell they should be released after copping a plea.  I think they should be granted a new trial to put all this stuff to bed once and for all. 
 
Regardless of any plea or not.  Innocent people should not be 'forced' to plead guilty in exchange for freedom.  And guilty people sentenced to life should not go free.
 

Ask yourself if you care about any of the others in similar situations, or are just celebrating about the mystique around this case.

 
I always care about justice.  I think most do as well.  

Spunky

But it seems like this WM3 are the ones it's "en vogue" to care about. People wax philosophically about their release, and just pass by the other injustices that we see.

I disagree.

Look, I don't question your motives; I'm sure you do care about justice and all that. But let's be honest:  this IS an en vogue case.  Really.  The documentary, the songs being written, the celebrities wearing the t-shirts...  c'mon.  It's not even up for discussion that this is another opportunity for the limosine liberals to sharpen their cred with little fear of backlash. 
 

Regardless of any plea or not.  Innocent people should not be 'forced' to plead guilty in exchange for freedom.  And guilty people sentenced to life should not go free.

 
No one is being "forced" to do anything.  There is still a hearing in December if they opt to pursue their rights under the system.  Just because it smells funny doesn't mean it IS funny, and you can't just throw out the system because you don't like how it operated in what is, at this point ONE CASE.  Sure there are probably others.  But let's not forget that the system works for the 1,000's of other cases EVERY DAY.  I know this is a horrible analogy but all this animosity to the system that protects you and your family each and every day over one case is sort of like saying "Wow.  Space Dye Vest blows.  Therefore, Dream Theater is a horrible band and needs to be prevented from recording ever again."

rekless fabl


It is brought up all the time.  There has been serious independent investigation done on Mark John Byers and Terry Hobbs, but since the state of Arkansas has stuck to their guns about having "the right guys", the case is essentially closed.

To her point, those are two real suspects.  There was a bite mark on one of the victims foreheads, and they were able to test Hobbs' bite patterns (no match), but after it came out that there was this evidence, but before he could be tested, Byers had all his teeth removed.  Yes, you heard me.  He had all his teeth removed after it became known that he might be tested for a bite pattern match but before he could be tested.

... and I already didn't like cops, ...

 
Since you are so interested in "justice" and fair play for all people, I hope you can recognize that to some of us (including me) that is as offensive a statement as "I dislike <insert race or religion> and as much an affront to fairplay as this case is.  My brother is a police officer, and even though he has a wife and two little boys that need him in their life he would lay his life down for you (and the rest of his community) in a heartbeat, regardless of what color you wore or what music you listened to.  Sure there are probably bad cops out their, but if you are so interested in "justice" and putting yourself in the shoes of others, consider what might have happened to the cops you dislike so much to cause you to dislike them.  In my experience, which is not insignificant, there are almost always two sides to every story. 

Stadler

 To her point, those are two real suspects.  There was a bite mark on one of the victims foreheads, and they were able to test Hobbs' bite patterns (no match), but after it came out that there was this evidence, but before he could be tested, Byers had all his teeth removed.  Yes, you heard me.  He had all his teeth removed after it became known that he might be tested for a bite pattern match but before he could be tested.

There have been some renowned forensic experts who have volunteered their time to this case who have largely refuted the "bite mark evidence" saying almost all the marking on the bodies (including the supposed removed penis of Christopher Byers) is post mortem wounds from animals and insects.  New DNA evidence involves a hair they found tied into the shoelaces that were used to tie the children's limbs.  The hair matches Terry Hobbs (The step father of Stevie Branch) and his friend David Jacoby.

Since you are so interested in "justice" and fair play for all people, I hope you can recognize that to some of us (including me) that is as offensive a statement as "I dislike <insert race or religion> and as much an affront to fairplay as this case is.

Is it offensive if I say I don't like dentists?  Because I don't.  Don't care for politicians either.  I must be a hatemonger! 
The fact of the matter is, where I live, there are many, many dirty cops.  I've been given reasons over and over throughout my life to distrust the police.  Now, I've met nice cops.. I've met nice dentists.  I'm sure there are even decent politicians out there!  There are individuals who are great, and are doing their jobs for the right reasons.  It's been my experience that most of the police I've encountered in my life aren't those individuals I just mentioned.