SANCTIONED : DT World Tour 2011 / 2012 Discussion Thread

"As I Am" in the Copenhagen encore?
I can imagine the disappointed faces.

1 2002 55
2 1995 42
3 1994 33
4 1998 20
5 2012 4  
That's the play count for 6:00. I'd say it was rather a large 'nugget' for the fans.

liquidrsr


"As I Am" in the Copenhagen encore?
I can imagine the disappointed faces.

Your imagination is good! You saw some disppointed faces.
 
"Fortune in lies" was not the biggest succes in Copenhagen while "The Dark Eternal Night" was received very well!
And Copenhagen really likes Mike Mangini!

http://www.grablewski.com/archives/25179
 
Nice pics from poland show.

WOW!!!!!!
 
FANTASTIC SHOTS!

Does anyone know how long the shows are? I'm going to see them tomorrow in Zwolle, and the setlist is only like 110 minutes.

Great pictures!  I'm not so sure about the Bono safety glasses, though......

What about songs like, "Only A Matter of Time" which was only played very infrequently in 2004 and before that only in medley form on the SFAM tour. What about others from WDADU like "Status Seeker" & "Light Fuse And Get Away" (again VERY sporadically in 2004), or from FII like "You Not Me" (regardless of its popularity) & "Take Away My Pain" (would be wonderful acoustically)? There's others as well but my point is made I think. I like the setlists (no argument of any song in the set), but I just wish some "nuggets" would be thrown in. That's what made DT shows even more special to me in the past (MP days, if you will).

 
With MP no longer in the band, I think you can count out seeing adventurous setlists or a lot of the rarities/nuggets - and if they are in the setlist, that they get quickly dropped. Case in point is The Great Debate - I asked JP why they dropped it during the American leg of the tour and basically he said that it wasn't getting a response from the fans, that it's a great album track. He likes the song as I'm sure other guys in the band do (after all, apparently all the songs in the post-MP setlists were selected by democratic opinion), but because the audience wasn't into it, they dropped it - I'd wager anything that is "rare" like most of WDaDU, any B-sides and other "album" tracks probably won't be added to the setlist, and if they are, that they get dropped quickly when most of the audience looks at them with a "what song is this?" look on their faces.

I shall be at Zwolle tomorrow with photo pass, and before the show I'll be interviewing MM - looking forward to that!

Bloody long drive for me though, 3 hours up fom Brussels. I've no idea why they aren't playing Ahoy in Rotterdam and/or Forest National in Brussels...

With MP no longer in the band, I think you can count out seeing adventurous setlists or a lot of the rarities/nuggets - and if they are in the setlist, that they get quickly dropped. Case in point is The Great Debate - I asked JP why they dropped it during the American leg of the tour and basically he said that it wasn't getting a response from the fans, that it's a great album track. He likes the song as I'm sure other guys in the band do (after all, apparently all the songs in the post-MP setlists were selected by democratic opinion), but because the audience wasn't into it, they dropped it - I'd wager anything that is "rare" like most of WDaDU, any B-sides and other "album" tracks probably won't be added to the setlist, and if they are, that they get dropped quickly when most of the audience looks at them with a "what song is this?" look on their faces.

 
That's really sad to hear. It seems that the band will turn into 'play the same songs each tour', or also known as 'play only the popular songs'. Such a shame if it turns out that way.

 
With MP no longer in the band, I think you can count out seeing adventurous setlists or a lot of the rarities/nuggets - and if they are in the setlist, that they get quickly dropped. Case in point is The Great Debate - I asked JP why they dropped it during the American leg of the tour and basically he said that it wasn't getting a response from the fans, that it's a great album track. He likes the song as I'm sure other guys in the band do (after all, apparently all the songs in the post-MP setlists were selected by democratic opinion), but because the audience wasn't into it, they dropped it - I'd wager anything that is "rare" like most of WDaDU, any B-sides and other "album" tracks probably won't be added to the setlist, and if they are, that they get dropped quickly when most of the audience looks at them with a "what song is this?" look on their faces.
 
That's really sad to hear. It seems that the band will turn into 'play the same songs each tour', or also known as 'play only the popular songs'. 
^That's when I and many DT fans I know will stop attending shows! THIS is EXACTLY what I was MOST WORRIED about when MP left!
 
 

Curly mike stand for James?

Just wishing for DT to play (a lot of) new songs and a bunch of older songs. They may be popular songs, they are popular for a reason.
Just hoping that they will change the popular songs with every tour.
 
I will see them tonight in Zwolle \m/

I will be there tonight too! Looking forward

YES, homegame tonight, living only 25 minutes from Zwolle!!!Better than AHOY

Setlist Scotty

What about songs like, "Only A Matter of Time" which was only played very infrequently in 2004 and before that only in medley form on the SFAM tour. What about others from WDADU like "Status Seeker" & "Light Fuse And Get Away" (again VERY sporadically in 2004), or from FII like "You Not Me" (regardless of its popularity) & "Take Away My Pain" (would be wonderful acoustically)? There's others as well but my point is made I think. I like the setlists (no argument of any song in the set), but I just wish some "nuggets" would be thrown in. That's what made DT shows even more special to me in the past (MP days, if you will).

With MP no longer in the band, I think you can count out seeing adventurous setlists or a lot of the rarities/nuggets - and if they are in the setlist, that they get quickly dropped. Case in point is The Great Debate - I asked JP why they dropped it during the American leg of the tour and basically he said that it wasn't getting a response from the fans, that it's a great album track. He likes the song as I'm sure other guys in the band do (after all, apparently all the songs in the post-MP setlists were selected by democratic opinion), but because the audience wasn't into it, they dropped it - I'd wager anything that is "rare" like most of WDaDU, any B-sides and other "album" tracks probably won't be added to the setlist, and if they are, that they get dropped quickly when most of the audience looks at them with a "what song is this?" look on their faces.

 
I'm not quite sure about this. For me, the setlists from the last two tours (SC and BC&SL) were rather stale and predictable (with the exception of POW and the full performances of I&W). Most of the stuff was regular setlist material. I thought they had stucked to that on the summer tour, which had disappointing songs like Endless Sacrifice, Forsaken, Under A Glass Moon, The Count OF Tuscany (last tour only, though), Through My Words/Fatal Tragedy..and so on.
 
The only surprise was Ystejam and I loved the approach with incorporating one song from each album INLUDING WDADU!!! Wouldn'T have happend with MP, I reckoned then.
 
I feel that on this leg they present a really good balanced setlist, incorporating the less frequent old songs (6:00, TSM, WFS etc.). And they brough in another WDADU track with AFIL (although I'd have preferred OAMOT, but ANY WDADU stuff suits me!!!)
 
And dropping TGD is the best choice they have ever made. It's great to listen to on the album, but a maaaaajor downer during a concert. So is Scarred, IMHO, although I think I'm gonna get killed for this...

Understand this, it wasn't always about MP picking rare tunes either. He tried to rotate setlists and not play the same thing you heard the last time they were in your town.

PaintedSkies


Understand this, it wasn't always about MP picking rare tunes either. He tried to rotate setlists and not play the same thing you heard the last time they were in your town.

True, but in making sure they didn't play the same thing as last time, it caused the set list to contain rare tunes. Otherwise, they would've ended up playing the same things they played last time.
 
One thing is for sure, very few people/bands pay as much attention to setlists as MP.

Setlist Scotty
With MP no longer in the band, I think you can count out seeing adventurous setlists or a lot of the rarities/nuggets - and if they are in the setlist, that they get quickly dropped. Case in point is The Great Debate - I asked JP why they dropped it during the American leg of the tour and basically he said that it wasn't getting a response from the fans, that it's a great album track. He likes the song as I'm sure other guys in the band do (after all, apparently all the songs in the post-MP setlists were selected by democratic opinion), but because the audience wasn't into it, they dropped it - I'd wager anything that is "rare" like most of WDaDU, any B-sides and other "album" tracks probably won't be added to the setlist, and if they are, that they get dropped quickly when most of the audience looks at them with a "what song is this?" look on their faces.

That's... sad... if true.  I really love some of those B sides, especially from that era around Falling Into Infinity.  I have a good friend who can't stand DT and when I asked him what he didn't particularly like about them, he told me that he doesn't "think every song has to be all out all the time," by which he meant 20 minutes of non-stop, busy playing.  A lot of people seem to think that way, so when I put together a selection for some of these people I use a lot of those B-sides like "Cover My Eyes," "Speak to Me," and so on.  And around my neck of the woods, that flies a lot better than some of DT's larger epics (although "Octavarium" has gone over very well with people to whom I have played the song).  I suppose it's not a huge concern, though, seeing as how the closest DT has been to Birmingham was a drum clinic Mike Portnoy did in '96... otherwise, it's a 2-hour drive to Atlanta.  Keep hoping that after the success of the last two albums they'd get a larger North American tour.  But then, even TSO didn't make Alabama this year, so who knows what the heck goes on in that process.

This thread went a bit quiet...

Anyway, I interviewed MM before the Zwolle show - You can read it here:

http://www.dprp.net/wp/interviews/?page_id=1659

Great interview dabby!
A lot of different questions rather than the normal ones you hear a thousand times!

What a great interview, fun to read - and like Paul said: a lot of different questions than normally are asked. big thumbs up.

Fantastic!

Wembley tonight
 
I will not be hard to spot
 
10000 DT fans, TFG will be only one wearing a yellow tee shirt
 
(Jordan's The Wheel fanclub)
 
 

Every interview I read with Mangini makes me like him more and more. What an amazing dude. Humble, but with talent that can eclipse 99% of most drummers out there.

FoH


Every interview I read with Mangini makes me like him more and more. What an amazing dude. Humble, but with talent that can eclipse 99% of most drummers out there.

I agree with you.
I also like him more and more

I love Mangini.
 
But The Dark Eternal Night and The Test That Stumped Them All didn't half sorely miss MP's playful vocals last night.

Is the drumsolo still the same than it was 2011 ? I think the setlist looks good, even it seems to be pretty much same all the time and maybe it is a little bit "secure" but on same time it is easy to understand why.
 
It seems to be so that there is different kinf of opinnions about how the band had look on live. In other discussions (in other web pages) I have seen also comments that the band is not so much in touch with the audience. I think it seem's to be like an "opinnion" more in both "sides".  In old time's it was also "togertheness" and/or funny stuff in the live concerts. I try to put a little "reminder" for that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jln0mVAhpM0&feature=related
 

This sort of discussion has gotten way out of control...  the sort of setlist rotations that you guys are talking about pleases only those that are obsessively reading the setlists on the Internet in advance of the shows.  Let's take a look at the 2011 and 2012 setlists for Leeds/Manchester, because they are within close proximity of each other.
 
2011-07-22 - O2 Academy - Leeds, UK

1. Under A Glass Moon
2. These Walls
3. Forsaken
4. Endless Sacrifice
Drum Solo
5. Ytse Jam
6. Peruvian Skies
7. The Great Debate
8. On the Backs of Angels
9. Caught In A Web
10. Through My Words
11. Fatal Tragedy
12. The Count of Tuscany
----------------------------------
13. Metropolis, Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper
 
2012-02-09 - O2 Apollo - Manchester, UK

1. Bridges in the Sky
2. 6.00
3. Build Me Up, Break Me Down
4. Surrounded
5. The Dark Eternal Night
Drum Solo
6. A Fortune In Lies
7. Outcry
8. Wait For Sleep
9. Far From Heaven
10. On the Backs of Angels
11. War Inside My Head
12. The Test That Stumped Them All
13. The Spirit Carries On
14. Breaking All Illusions
--------------------------
15. As I Am
 
Now you can double check this for me,  but only On the Backs of Angels is played in BOTH shows.  If I went into both shows with no pre-existing knowledge of the setlists, I think I'd be pretty happy with the outcome.  2 shows and only 1 repeat song.
 
You guys have just taken it way too far...

Well played!

BastrdDrmr

This sort of discussion has gotten way out of control...  the sort of setlist rotations that you guys are talking about pleases only those that are obsessively reading the setlists on the Internet in advance of the shows.  Let's take a look at the 2011 and 2012 setlists for Leeds/Manchester, because they are within close proximity of each other.
 
<snip>

Now you can double check this for me,  but only On the Backs of Angels is played in BOTH shows.  If I went into both shows with no pre-existing knowledge of the setlists, I think I'd be pretty happy with the outcome.  2 shows and only 1 repeat song.

You guys have just taken it way too far...

 
Uh - its not taking it too far.  Take a look at the variety of tracks played in a single LEG of a tour, not comparing multiple legs of a tour and see how much variety was played. Even on the Chaos in Motion and Black Clouds tour, there was more variety than if you were to compare songs played within a single tour leg. For those of us who loved catching multiple shows on a given leg (and there's more of them than I think some people, including the band would care to admit to), it was great seeing multiple shows never knowing exactly what was going to be played.
 
These days, once you've seen the setlist for the first 2 shows of a leg of a tour, that's all the variety you're gonna get, since they're doing 2 setlists, swapping out no more than 5 songs between shows. THAT my friend, is what we're missing, never mind the unusual setlists MP would periodically throw in the mix (the aforementioned 2007 shows where IaW was played in it's entirety or even the 2004 WDaDReunite show).
 
So, no, we are NOT taking it too far - you're just not looking into the finer details.

In a further response to BastrdDrmr, out of curiosity I went ahead and compared the setlists from the Chaos in Motion tour, of which I saw 8 shows on the North American leg and the single show I saw on the Progressive Nation 2008 tour (essentially a second leg of the Chaos in Motion tour).
 
Now if I was to do as you did in comparing 2 shows I attended in different towns but pretty close to each other, here's the setlists:
San Diego (Chaos in Motion):
1.  Also sprach Zarathustra
2.  Constant Motion
3.  Take The Time
4.  Blind Faith
5.  Surrounded '07
6.  The Dark Eternal Night
7.  Endless Sacrifice
8.  I Walk Beside You
9.  The Spirit Carries On
10.  In the Presence of Enemies
~~~encore~~~
11.  Schmedley Wilcox
 
Los Angeles (Progressive Nation 2008):
1.  Also sprach Zarathustra
2.  In the Presence of Enemies pt.1
3.  Beyond This Life
4.  Blind Faith
5.  Forsaken
6.  Erotomania
7.  Voices
8.  The Ministry of Lost Souls
~~~encore~~~
9.  Metropolis pt.1 (w/ guitar and keyboard jam)/
10.  Learning to Live (abridged)/
11.  The Crimson Sunset
 
Now in comparing the two, just like your example, there was very little overlap - in this case, the first part of ItPoE and Blind Faith.
 
However, let's now consider what additional other songs were played at the 7 other Chaos in Motion shows that I happened to see:
 Panic Attack
 Scarred
 keyboard solo
 Lines in the Sand
 Misunderstood
 Strange Deja Vu
Another Day
 
The total time that these additional songs adds up to is just over 55 minutes (using the live versions of the songs). So there was definitely more variety in the setlists when MP was in the band, and this proves it.
 
Also note that my example was for a headlining tour; look at the Evening With tours and you'd see an even wider variety of songs that were played during the single leg of a tour.

Setlist Scotty: on the money again 

I won't dispute the rotations within the same leg of a tour.  The vast majority of folks do not attend multiple shows within the same leg.  I actually did this for the first time on this tour with the Glasgow/Manchester shows and 4 songs were rotated which wasn't really enough for my liking.
 
However, people that may complain about setlist variety when they only attend at most 1 show per leg are not justified in any way.  History would indicate (and the current situation with no MP is no exception) that you're likely to get around 80-90% different songs from the last time they were in your town.

Jpsr's setlist philosophy is exactly what I would do. They are trying to put on a good show and if fans give them an indication that the show is not going well then you make a change. It's that simple. Dropping in rare songs is not about whether or not you are changing the setlist every night. It's about whether or not you are playing a long enough set that you still get in the hits that 90% of the fans came to see. The sets these days are on the shorter side relative to the past so if a song isn't working they need to fix it.

BastrdDrmr


The vast majority of folks do not attend multiple shows within the same leg.

This is one band where I would disagree. It was always very nice to see a large group going to multiple shows across the nation even. It may not be the case anymore because of the lack of variety in setlists.
 
As for all the back and forth on setlists, there is a reason why they call him Setlist Scotty.

I always wondered if MP used any kind of software to track and generate his setlists?

Went to the Manchester show on Thursday. My first show since MP quit the band. 
 
Dream Theater tore the house down.
Out of five gigs of theirs that I've been too, this was, by a country mile, the best. 
 
Awesome set and all of the band members were on point.
 
Mangini was the star of the show without a doubt. He never missed a beat, he kept tempo, played the songs differently (but the same), and his drum solo was insane. And the four bars before the drum solo in As I Am was the most tense I've ever felt at a gig and he absolutely nailed it.
 
Still in awe. 

BastrdDrmr


This sort of discussion has gotten way out of control...  the sort of setlist rotations that you guys are talking about pleases only those that are obsessively reading the setlists on the Internet in advance of the shows.  Let's take a look at the 2011 and 2012 setlists for Leeds/Manchester, because they are within close proximity of each other.

2011-07-22 - O2 Academy - Leeds, UK

1. Under A Glass Moon
2. These Walls
3. Forsaken
4. Endless Sacrifice
Drum Solo
5. Ytse Jam
6. Peruvian Skies
7. The Great Debate
8. On the Backs of Angels
9. Caught In A Web
10. Through My Words
11. Fatal Tragedy
12. The Count of Tuscany
----------------------------------
13. Metropolis, Pt. 1: The Miracle and the Sleeper

2012-02-09 - O2 Apollo - Manchester, UK

1. Bridges in the Sky
2. 6.00
3. Build Me Up, Break Me Down
4. Surrounded
5. The Dark Eternal Night
Drum Solo
6. A Fortune In Lies
7. Outcry
8. Wait For Sleep
9. Far From Heaven
10. On the Backs of Angels
11. War Inside My Head
12. The Test That Stumped Them All
13. The Spirit Carries On
14. Breaking All Illusions
--------------------------
15. As I Am

Now you can double check this for me,  but only On the Backs of Angels is played in BOTH shows.  If I went into both shows with no pre-existing knowledge of the setlists, I think I'd be pretty happy with the outcome.  2 shows and only 1 repeat song.

You guys have just taken it way too far...

was at both gigs. thanks so much for making that point, it saved me having to do it :P