SANCTIONED : DT - ADTOE Discussion

While we're at it, JM should start doing backing vocals too.  MOST people don't know that JM has a great falsetto belt in the style of the BeeGees.  (Only true DT fans would know this, duh.  )

The songs that JMX wrote the lyrics to is an instrumental.

JMX new lyrics "I beat yo bitch up, I beat her rough, Bitches"

Um..okay.
 
I don't get it.

Yeah, i no, just saying every is like he is gonna bring so much wisdom and such. and he presents some gangstar rap..
 
Ok I'm bored, fail me now

Let's let MM get used to the band (and vice versa) before expecting him to start shaping the band's sound. Besides, I believe a lot of the writing was done by the time they made the decision. He'll have enough influence on the album with his playing, since I highly doubt anyone handed him a drum tab and said: "Play this."
 
And seriously, seeing him in the doc, does anyone really see him jumping in with: "Ugh, no. That really doesn't work, John. Sounds too forced. Drop that bit and go straight to daaah-da da da da daaah-da daaah after the wheedliewheedliewheedliewhee-ooh."?
 
Let them mesh. Let him get comfortable. Next album

I wish I could push a "like" button for certain posts. I completely agree Ragutis.

Ragutis


Let's let MM get used to the band (and vice versa) before expecting him to start shaping the band's sound. Besides, I believe a lot of the writing was done by the time they made the decision. He'll have enough influence on the album with his playing, since I highly doubt anyone handed him a drum tab and said: "Play this."

And seriously, seeing him in the doc, does anyone really see him jumping in with: "Ugh, no. That really doesn't work, John. Sounds too forced. Drop that bit and go straight to daaah-da da da da daaah-da daaah after the wheedliewheedliewheedliewhee-ooh."?

Let them mesh. Let him get comfortable. Next album

Totally agree. Wait until they have an entire tour together to mesh then we will see!

MP was unusual in that he helped write music and produce the band with JP.
I think the dynamic has changed and Mangini is doing what drummers normally do and that is to provide beats to the riffs the other guys write.
If MM never wrote with the other chaps it would not surprise nor upset me. He's there to keep time first off and to freak people out with his chops secondly. With Rudess and the Johns writing the music there is no need for MM to write anything because it is typically not a job a drummer does.
 For that matter I don't think MP really actually wrote the music, like by playing guitar, but helped arrange everything which he was and is a master at. If MP had an idea, JP could make it happen for him which is writing in a sense...kind of like ghost writing is done in the literary world. That is a testament to how well JP and MP gelled together.
 
Anyway, i guess for me, I don't care if MM ever 'writes' any music or not. Its a non issue. What he does for DT on the drums will be plenty...he doesn't have to do anything else.

I don't know about you, but this right here tells me we're waiting for something quite special:
 

Didn't Mangini drum Gaga's new album or tour with her and still have loose ends to tie up at the College?

Personally, I would prefer more JMX composing... Remember Liftin' Shadows?
And it would be interesting to see just JP producing.
There are different situations. For instance, when Tolkki left Stratovarius, when they hired a new guitarist, the new guy wrote halfof a new album - but Tolkki wrote 95% of teh band's previous material.But if this guy wasn't of acomposer type, then I perfectly imagine the rest of the old band writing on their own. If the genie is more a performer/improviser than a composer - let him do his job andmake everyone happy.

I got excited about hearing that JM was writing lyrics again, not because of all the hype, but because with MP gone it means that DT have lost a good lyricist. 

But then I wondered... why does everyone seem to get so hyped up about JM's lyrics? I like them and think they're great works of poetry, but so is a lot of DT's work. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence has some excellent lyrics; Blind Faith, Misunderstood, The Great Debate, Disappear, About to Crash, Solitary Shell, Reprise, Losing Time... (MP's are great too, but I'm speaking more from a literary/poetic/cultural point of view).

Nomy Pitreko


I got excited about hearing that JM was writing lyrics again, not because of all the hype, but because with MP gone it means that DT have lost a good lyricist. 

But then I wondered... why does everyone seem to get so hyped up about JM's lyrics? I like them and think they're great works of poetry, but so is a lot of DT's work. Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence has some excellent lyrics; Blind Faith, Misunderstood, The Great Debate, Disappear, About to Crash, Solitary Shell, Reprise, Losing Time... (MP's are great too, but I'm speaking more from a literary/poetic/cultural point of view).

Can't speak for everyone but, for me personally, Learning To Live and Trial Of Tears are two of the greatest songs in the entire DT catalogue and Lifting Shadows Off A Dream isn't too shabby either.  For a guy who only wrote one song on each of those records, it's a pretty good hit rate.  That's why I am so excited, he has written some of the best songs in DT history and has been sidelined in recent years (whether that was his choice or someone else's, I don't know).  When Mike left, the first thing I thought after the initial shock and sadness was 'I wonder if JM will get more involved in the songwriting now?'  I'm still sad about Mike but this is the silver lining I was hoping for.

By the way I wasn't trying to imply that Mike was holding back JM (who knows why he stopped contributing?), just that with him gone another lyricist would have to step up, the same way Mike did after Kevin Moore's departure.  I hoped it would galvanise JM and it would seem that it has.

A51502112


No offense but, are we going to start a "Whining About the New DT Album" thread?

Depends; are we going to continue immediately classifying anything that isn't 100% unqualified worship of every aspect of DT as "whining"??
 
G**, that is so annoying to have any critical (in the artistic sense, not the negative sense) comment dismissed as "whining".
 
The fact is, ALL of this is speculative, and ALL of it - positive and negative alike - is being made without hearing a note.  So as much as I like and respect JM's contributions to the band, and as much as I might be curious about what he has been up to (lyrically) these last few years, there is fundamentally no difference (at this point) in applauding what they are going to do versus questioning what they are going to do.  They are equally valid or invalid as the case may be.
 
 

Peter Mc


By the way I wasn't trying to imply that Mike was holding back JM (who knows why he stopped contributing?), just that with him gone another lyricist would have to step up, the same way Mike did after Kevin Moore's departure.  I hoped it would galvanise JM and it would seem that it has.

I'm pretty sure that MP and JP have both gone on record saying that they set criteria for lyric submission and JM chose not to hand any more over.  I don't remember what interview it was from, but I believe they said that they had to mold JM's lyrics to fit the song it was just getting to be too difficult.  What they wanted him to do was what they were doing - bringing in lyrics ready-made for the song.  Had he done that, we would have seen contributions from him.  Whether or not that rule has changed with MP's departure, I obviously can't say.  Who knows.

Never mind.
 
Question answered.

MusicTriviaNut

Peter Mc


By the way I wasn't trying to imply that Mike was holding back JM (who knows why he stopped contributing?), just that with him gone another lyricist would have to step up, the same way Mike did after Kevin Moore's departure.  I hoped it would galvanise JM and it would seem that it has.

I'm pretty sure that MP and JP have both gone on record saying that they set criteria for lyric submission and JM chose not to hand any more over.  I don't remember what interview it was from, but I believe they said that they had to mold JM's lyrics to fit the song it was just getting to be too difficult.  What they wanted him to do was what they were doing - bringing in lyrics ready-made for the song.  Had he done that, we would have seen contributions from him.  Whether or not that rule has changed with MP's departure, I obviously can't say.  Who knows.

Indeed, this is true. They have both said a few times that they have set out a criteria for lyrics should someone want to submit them. I remember MP and/or JP saying that JM's lyrics are more in poetic or even free form, whereas the guys prefer lyrics to be already in a song-style format.
 
But I do think that JM was ready to start contributing again, before MP's departure.

Exactly this ^. Also, in response to Ragutis, I'm pretty sure hardly anything was written when they hired Mangini. He was hired back in Oct/Nov, and they did't go into the studio to write until Jan. So I'm pretty sure MM was involved in at least writing the drum parts if not a bit more.

Saintsmaen


Didn't Mangini drum Gaga's new album or tour with her and still have loose ends to tie up at the College?

 
No. Mike left Berklee over 6 months ago.

I love JMX lyrics. They're cryptic and vague. Lifting Shadows is the perfect example. It's like the song speaks directly to me... but I have no idea what it is about. The music speaks as strongly as the lyrics. Plus. James. Oh my gosh. James on that track.

I'm excited for JMX lyrics. I think the extra work that had to be done to make his lyrics work was well worth it in the past. Learning to Live's chorus was my senior quote. "only a heartbeat makes all the difference in learning to live".

With JMX we are going to expect a masterpiece. But, that may be negligent on our part. Just take we get at face value. It's been a decade since he contributed lyrics, he may be rusty.

JLB recent comment: 
 
Hi All,

Sorry I haven't been around, especially since the recent turn of events. Yes, MM is our drummer and we are psyched to begin on this new musical adventure. 
Those of you who thought I am in Canada recording my vocals are correct. I am having a blast recording with Rich. We have been doing this recording thing off and on with one another for the last 24 years. 
I am heading back into Rich's studio today to begin vocals on the 5th song. Can't wait for everyone to hear the fruits of our labor.

Have a great day and see you around on-line,doing fine.

Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwk.

So at this point the album is almost done being recorded? Are vocals last or do they still have guitar leads or something to do?

I remember reading that DT leave vocals for last. Though maybe they leave some overdubs for after that, who knows.
 
So James is recording his vocals on his own? That's odd. I wonder if he'd take this as an opportunity to do whatever.

Vocals are usually the last step of the Recording process.  And in today's day of age of technology.  You can pretty much do this anywhere.    Now if there are backing vocals by JP and whoever if there is more.  Where that happens who knows. 

MIKE MANGINI IS THE NEW DT DRUMMER?!?!?

I thought frank Solomon had black hair and was thinner.
 
I remember seeing a clip of FS on a DT DVD and saying something about he hates Christmas. This dude looks nothing like the Frank that I am picturing in my head.

So with JLB doing his vocals in Cananda, would it be safe to assume that the album is being produced by somone other than JP? Sorry if that this has been mentioned already!!

The more I hear about the new album, the more disappointed I become.
 
All I want is 6 accordion solos, and I don't even hear mention of one! And where is this dubstep album we've all been waiting for? When E and Dance Unite I believe it was called.
 
DT, you're on thin ice with me right now.
 

Crash


I thought frank Solomon had black hair and was thinner.

I remember seeing a clip of FS on a DT DVD and saying something about he hates Christmas. This dude looks nothing like the Frank that I am picturing in my head.

It wasn't Frank. Check out Chaos inMotion DVD2, there's lots of Frank speaking.

At this point, even though I have not been a very vocal critic of Dream Theater's lyrics on the last few albums, I have thought that they often sounded a little bit.....pedestrian.......at times....for a band of this caliber.   And this has been a fairly common criticism for them, and I'm sure that John Myung doesn't live in a bubble, so he's definitely read some of the criticism.  Whether that prompted him to step up or not, who knows, but I think right now, as far as lyrics go, some fresh ideas are probably going to be helpful.

i think this album is being done completely different than the rest as far as the recording process. james has been recording vocals for a few weeks, but JP just posted today or so that the basslines are NOW finished and that JR is starting keyboards. i can't wait to hear how this works out...

Great stuff, would love to know who is handling the production.
 

something_wicked


Great stuff, would love to know who is handling the production.

JP stated that he was producing.

A51502112

something_wicked


Great stuff, would love to know who is handling the production.

JP stated that he was producing.

Thanks.

something_wicked


Great stuff, would love to know who is handling the production.

Me too. IMO, they've needed an outside producer for a while to freshen up the sound. What's Steven Wilson doing? 

I love Steven Wilson but I don't think he's the right guy to produce DT.  He's not really a fan of their music.

fantastic news, thank you for posting them!!! I'm a huge fan of Learning to Live and Trial of Tears so I'm really looking forward now to JM contributions.