"LOST" Season SIX/LAST season discussion (spoilers)

Maj


Watched the first episode of the new series.

Says something about a show when I'm watching it as some sort of chore - I haven't really enjoyed it for a few seasons, at the point when I realised it was just made up as it goes along and there is no way there will be any rational answer for the questions that were raised in an excellent first series (The biggest joke is the turning of Emerson from a bit part character into basically the main guy in the story, nothing against his character who is one of the better ones). As it is I've just been wondering how they can possibly end it - Now it's got to the point where I'm not sure if I care, I'll probably finish it as it's so close to the end and there's a part of me that wants all those hours watching to have some kind of conclusion.

It struck me in this one how poor the dialogue has actually got now though - Actually had to laugh out loud at the progression between Hurley and Sawyer to reveal that he's now a lucky guy. That's just lazy writing.

Not meaning to slag off what is for some their favourite show - Just my comments on the series so far

With all due respect I think you are frustrated with your own expectations more than anything to do with the show itself.

That is true in part, but remember it's the show that built up those expectations, and a lot of this comes from what the writers were saying around the earlier series where everything has a rational explanation. Yeah sure everything's rational when you say that science has invented time travel and...erm....people can talk to the dead.

Invariably the problem with shows which have storylines based around an indefinite number of seasons, or at least huge long running arcs without hardly any season long ones (an example of shows which do would be The Wire, Dexter or 24) then changes to the production team (i.e. the show's creator leaving to do other things, actors getting fired) and other outside influences as well as a natural decline in creativity will affect the quality - fine when there have been payoffs at the end of every series but not so when the whole thing is one big series of cliffhangers, another example of this would be Prison Break which like Lost started off very promisingly but then neglected to give at least any partial closure while the show dropped in quality. This is why there are problems of expectations - The questions were raised 6 years ago in a good show, it's just been dragging me along and not answering them while it's become a bad one.

Same disclaimer as my first post

 I would say that seasons 4, 5 and hopefully 6 work beautifully as a whole.  The reason they work so well is during the 3rd (I think) they put an end date on the show.   So yes I would agree there are things in the first three seasons that did get shunted aside and will never be re-visited but I don't believe those are vital to enjoying the show. 

I hope that several years down the road Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse write a book on writing Lost.

I'd really like to know how much of it was planned from day one and moving forward how the rest of the story all became intertwined. I don't care if it was made up on the go (which I seriously doubt was the case), because even if it did, the show still is in my opinion the best piece of storytelling on film.

Saw a couple of fan made videos on youtube with some cool editing. First one was a summary of the plane crash and edited in style of the show 24. It's a 10 min video and is a great video of all the events leading to the crash spread across different episodes. Second, just saw another fan edited video of the 2 plane crash sequences put together on the same timeline called "A Tale of Two Oceanic 815s".

Search for them, it's really worth watching.

Oh and am loading another video made by the same 24 guy called Sydney Airport in real time. Awesome.

Maj, sounds like much of your disappointment comes from reading and watching things outside the show, like the writers talking about it and such things. I've stayed away (for the most part) from all that stuff and enjoy the show as its presented. I don't care that Miles has an ability to speak to the dead because I don't care that a writer said it's all based in science. I don't care that the two characters were supposed to be so great because to me, they were only what was presented to me.

Hell, I don't watch the preview (stupid spoilers) for the next week. I know I'm going to watch it, so I don't need to see a teaser for it. Therefore, I never have expectations based on what I saw in how they present the teaser to me. Too many people complain about stuff on this show that could easily be avoided if they would just enjoy the show itself.

There is so many areas to think/talk about.

I am trying to really focus on ( as of now ) what I feel is the "main" story line which is the Island after explosion scenario.

The Sayid thing specifically has me thinking. The dirty water part has to be either smokey or Jacob related.

Anyone else think that Sayids voice was different right when he woke up and the show ended? I watched the episode on a burnt disc from Tivo so I rewatched it a bunch of times and couldnt tell if he was just groggy or what, but I thought he sounded different.

The templars said if Sayid died they were in trouble or whatever, and I wonder if that means Sayid himself is important in some way, or if the problem is his body being used by smokey.

It is really tough to tell at this point and most everything is just a hypothesis, but damn it is fun to ponder where they will go with all this stuff going on.

Showing the island water really throws a wrench in trying to figure out how the uncrashed 815 relates to the island at all. Having Desmond on the plane, and then disappear makes no sense to me. I could see if he was just on the plane because he never would have went to the Island, but him disappearing makes it weird.

And when Jack said " do I recognize you from somewhere" it doesn't have to be Island related because remember they met when jack and desmond were running in that arena. So the whole thing is just way too new for me and I have enough to think about when it comes to the Jacob/smokey fiasco, which is wayyyy more interesting to me.

Jack and Desmond met in that stadium thing, as you mentioned, but Desmond doesn't crash on the island presumably because it's already sunk.

I think the bomb worked. It made the island sunk, and then all the inhabitans of the island sunk too Charles Widmore included, so if CW is dead, Penny was never conceived, the boat competition never took place, therefor Desmond never arrived to island. For some reason he got in that plane from Sidney to LAX, maybe he was just visiting.

Rane: I miss what you are trying to say, I know Desmond doesn't crash on the island, because none of them do as it is underwater. Desmond was at the Island years before 815 crashed, and he was the reason it crashed. So when he "went missing" as far as we know on the new flight 815, I am wondering how this will tie in to the story.
 
 
Mini: Right thats what I thought too, just going from Sydney to LA for no particular reason. But when he "went missing" you know they are throwing a wrench into the equation.

Like I said it may just be too premature to even know where they are going with that part of it, but having him on the new 815, and then having him disappear during the flight, you know they are up to something there, just don't know where they will go with it.

Well this was all Faraday's plan to detonate the bomb. Bomb goes off, his mom dies, he's never born. Desmond never makes it to the island, there's no button to push. However the rules don't apply to Desmond and isn't Desmond Faraday's "constant" Faraday finds his own loophole.

Or maybe just returned to his original seat as turbulence became abrupt and they tell you to.

It started for us Brits last night. 

Really great start to the season. 

I loved finally getting a look inside the temple...I'd been waiting for that for ages. Lennon and Dogen are interesting characters - hopefully we will find a little more out about them. 

I think it's possible that Jacob has 'inhabited' Sayid's body - however, it just leaves the question of why didn't another 'Sayid' appear as 'Locke' did?

And I think it's totally awesome that Jacob's Nemesis was revealed to be the smoke monster. Why didn't I think of that!? So I pose the question - is Christian actually smokey? The only reason I ask is because Christian's body was actually missing. He wasn't just duplicated.

Fantastic show.

did desmond disappear during the turbulence? if so it might be possible he's back to the island?

nevermind this post...

well i guess i'll add this...

great season so far...

I find it a little curious that people are speculating that Jacob is inhabiting Sayid's body...

a. Wasn't the whole point of bringing him to the Temple an effort for him NOT to die? We know that MIB has the power to take on the doppleganger of the dead, if it would be either of them, I would think it would be MIB.

b. But, as we saw with Locke, it seems he only takes the form of the dead, not reanimating their actual corpse. So perhaps Sayd was just smoehow resurrected by the power of the water?

c. Or maybe none of the above?

God I love this show. :D

i think the water in the temple is a fountain of youth/healing, that's why the samuraidude cut his hand to check if with the bubbles it still worked. Sayid coming back from the dead was a little later than expected but still what they intented to achieve so..
The preview for what's to come has made me think alot of different things looking back at what the first 2 episodes brought. weird stuff, great show

spikelineus


It started for us Brits last night. 

Really great start to the season. 

I loved finally getting a look inside the temple...I'd been waiting for that for ages. Lennon and Dogen are interesting characters - hopefully we will find a little more out about them. 

I think it's possible that Jacob has 'inhabited' Sayid's body - however, it just leaves the question of why didn't another 'Sayid' appear as 'Locke' did?

And I think it's totally awesome that Jacob's Nemesis was revealed to be the smoke monster. Why didn't I think of that!? So I pose the question - is Christian actually smokey? The only reason I ask is because Christian's body was actually missing. He wasn't just duplicated.

Fantastic show.

 
Good point about the double bodies. So it must definately not be smokey. Maybe Jacob can do it without creating a whole new body? I dont know....
 
Yeah I don't know what to think about christian at this point, I think it could have been smokey using it as another manipulation tactic to get Locke to leave the island, but he was already going to so it wasn't neccesary.But he did help him. And then when he was back with Sun and the pilot, he really didn't do anything coniving, just showed them the pic. He did say something like "its going to be a long trip to find your friends ", as if he knew what would happen for them to all get back on the same timeline, which they know are.I need to see more of christian.
 
The thing about Desmond is still looming, we don't know if he actually dissapeared from the plane. But he is not on the island because it is underwater. I should re-watch it to see if I notice anything else like if his actual plane seat was next to Jack, like Jack made it sound, or what. Like I said, I think it is too premature to get some good conversation going yet, but it is my number one question on the "new 815" timeline.

MIB is not smokie, although smokie IS protecting MIB. Smokie appeared when someone shot at MIB, and then MIB hid behind a pillar before disappearing. Smokie then steamed into the chamber from the other direction, not from behind the pillar. 

Outside, Richard warns Ilana and the Others not to shoot MIB. Why? Because anyone trying to harm MIB has smokie to contend with.

This why MIB couldn't kill Jacob himself - because Jacob was under the protection of smokie. This why he needed a loophole, i.e. get someone else to kill him. So why isn't Ben being stomped by smokie? Because Ben is (or was) the island's Leader, and smokie (in the form of Ben's daughter) has already told him to do everything "John Locke" says, so for now he's safe.

I read that somewhere I found it interesting to share

ministroraven

MIB is not smokie, although smokie IS protecting MIB. Smokie appeared when someone shot at MIB, and then MIB hid behind a pillar before disappearing. Smokie then steamed into the chamber from the other direction, not from behind the pillar. 

Outside, Richard warns Ilana and the Others not to shoot MIB. Why? Because anyone trying to harm MIB has smokie to contend with.

This why MIB couldn't kill Jacob himself - because Jacob was under the protection of smokie. This why he needed a loophole, i.e. get someone else to kill him. So why isn't Ben being stomped by smokie? Because Ben is (or was) the island's Leader, and smokie (in the form of Ben's daughter) has already told him to do everything "John Locke" says, so for now he's safe.

I read that somewhere I found it interesting to share

Hmmm, I don't agree with this.  MIB has already stated that he is smokie ("Sorry you had to see me like that" and "I'm not a what Ben, I'm a who"), unless he's lying.  When Alex turned up to tell Ben to do anything "Locke" said and follow him, I think that was MIB/Smokies/Flocke's way of manipulating Ben into killing Jacob for him.  Thats why when smokie judged Ben, "Locke" disappeared then once smokie had gone Locke came back, just like in the temple.  

yes, you are right!

Could not edit my last post.

If you watch carefully the episode where Desmond it's on the plane, it seems he is already married (with Penny? Libby? Ruth?) Pay attention and you'll see a wedding ring.

I'll try to upload an image of it later. It also seems he's reading a Child Book, maybe he already has a child to?

The Incident Part 1:

At the beginning Jacob is weaving a tapestry. Is there any significance to that? Or is it just a dramatic way to introduce the physical character into the show? Only time will tell whether or not the tapestry or the weaving of will have any major influences.

Jacob is sitting on the beach, cooking a fish, and watching what we know is the Black Rock sailing in the background. MIB approaches and joins Jacob on the beach. Jacob asks MIB if he came out to the beach because of the Black Rock. MIB says yes. We can assume that MIB is/was like island security based on what we learned from previous episodes. So what is MIB trying to accomplish with the Black Rock? He asks Jacob how did they find the island? MIB also asked Jacob if he brought them there? Then MIB says to Jacob your still trying to prove me wrong.

With the prove me wrong statement it shows some conflict between Jacob and MIB.

"They come, Fight, They Destroy, They Corrupt. Always ends the same" MIB
"(If or It)? only ends once, everything else before that is just progress". Jacob

From these two statements we see that obviously people have come to the island before and MIB has had to deal with it. Why would people come to an island and do what MIB says they do? What are they corrupting??

I get the impression that Jacob is luring people to the island. But, how is he doing it?? and Why??
Everything else before the end is just progress, but, progress towards what?

IMO MIB views each time that people arrive at the island a beginning and ending. "It always ends the same" Jacob seems to view these incidents as buildings blocks, so to speak, to achieve or prove MIB wrong. Which brings us to another critical piece. What is Jacob trying to prove wrong? 

I don't know why this just hit me. I wonder if any what the importance of weaving the tapestry and the use of the hourglass are. Sands of time? Stitch in Time? If I recall correctly hasn't an hour glass been used prior to the one being used in the temple while Sayid was in the water. 

I read this above in another post. In 2007 Eloise Hawking told Jack and them which flight to take. If Eloise was still on the Island in 1977 and a hydrogen bomb goes off, then we can only assume that she would be dead and not alive in 2007 to give the flight information. Charles Widmore could also be dead which would eliminate daniel faraday. 

In 2004 the magnetic pulse caused the plane to crash on the island. What caused it to land back on the Island in 2007? That to me just seems to hard. Why were Ben and the Darhma people able to come and go so easy?
But, Ben was also on the flight when they went back. Which leads to another question of why were Ben, Sun, and, one half of the plane sent to the island in 2007 and Jack, Hurley, Sayid, and Kate all ended up back in 1977. What caused the time shift on the plane? 

I wonder if Sayid attempting to kill young Ben who ends up killing Jacob when he is older has anything to do with Sayid coming back after being dead?

So we know that the Losties from #815 are now in 2007 after the bomb supposedly went off? Since a pocket was hit on the site of the future swan station and all things metal were being sucked into it... how do we know that at the same time a magnetic pulse caused the hydrogen bomb to go off and instead of destroying everything and everyone it just caused the island to be stuck in time or jarred that wheel again. I won't be surprised if something happens and someone is able to go back in time and take the bomb out of the question and then were back to square one with a few changes. Think about what was going on when Desmond and Daniel were going back and forth. 

...And as I DOM myself b/c my brain is in choas...

Based upon what he learned from Desmond and Daniel.

Lets just say that the bomb never went off in 1977. Were back in 2004 as in the beginning, Juliet was already on the island. What if somehow Juliet from the future goes back to 2004 and stops the plane from crashing? What if Juliet also went back to 1977 and stopped be explosion?

So flight #815 lands safely in LA and no one knows each other.  Then we have a whole different story. Which explains nothing about how everyone in 1977 is back on the island in 2007. I have the strange idea that perhaps what we are seeing in 2007 is really the actual reality and we will eventually find out what happens later which could possibly explain what is going on back in 2004 in LA after the plane lands. Some have mentioned a flash sideways. Well I'm thinking more along the lines of what we are seeing in 2004 is really a flash forward based upon what is going to happen in 2007. This theory may not hold water but it will be interesting to see none the less.  

I have always wondered how the journal from the Black Rock ended up at auction for Charles Widmore to buy? Also, when and why did Eloise Hawking leave the island and why did she start working with the Darhma group? 

If Sayid Jarrah was born in Tikrit, Iraq WHY IN THE WORLD he has a valid passport from IRAN? And in the date at the botton of the passport what number you see? is it a 4 or a 7?

Looks like a four to me.

To me it looks like a 7, you know some people write 7 with a small line in the middle.

here the pics of Des wearing the wedding ring.









What I don't get. is why he "dissapeared" on the middle of the flight

BigBrainBrad







"They come, Fight, They Destroy, They Corrupt. Always ends the same" MIB
"(If or It)? only ends once, everything else before that is just progress". Jacob


I get the impression that Jacob is luring people to the island. But, how is he doing it?? and Why??
Everything else before the end is just progress, but, progress towards what?

In an earlier post I postulated that Jacob and the MIB are essentially playing some sort of game and that the MIB wins this game every time, therefore he is telling Jacob basically why are you wasting your time. Jacob is just saying hey, every game we play is jsut progress for me to learn how to beat you and all I have to do is beat you once. What happens when he beats him who knows. I've been thinking that there has always been this underlying theme in LOST that is along the lines of Science vs Spiritual. Perhaps the MIB represents the science aspect and is just saying hey everytime we do this experiment it turns out the same and Jacob represents the spiritual aspect of how choice (however limited it may be) may or may not be the variable that ultimately defeats the MIB. I am really hooked on this 'game' theme between the two, and even in the first episode Locke explained to Walt when they found the backgammon game that backgammon was the ultimate game of good vs evil, black vs white.

gmillerdrake

BigBrainBrad







"They come, Fight, They Destroy, They Corrupt. Always ends the same" MIB
"(If or It)? only ends once, everything else before that is just progress". Jacob


I get the impression that Jacob is luring people to the island. But, how is he doing it?? and Why??
Everything else before the end is just progress, but, progress towards what?

In an earlier post I postulated that Jacob and the MIB are essentially playing some sort of game and that the MIB wins this game every time, therefore he is telling Jacob basically why are you wasting your time. Jacob is just saying hey, every game we play is jsut progress for me to learn how to beat you and all I have to do is beat you once, and he lures people to the island to take the place of the game pieces. I think that when he touched all the people he did he was just picking his players for this go round. What happens when he beats him who knows. I've been thinking that there has always been this underlying theme in LOST that is along the lines of Science vs Spiritual. Perhaps the MIB represents the science aspect and is just saying hey everytime we do this experiment it turns out the same and Jacob represents the spiritual aspect of how choice (however limited it may be) may or may not be the variable that ultimately defeats the MIB. I am really hooked on this 'game' theme between the two, and even in the first episode Locke explained to Walt when they found the backgammon game that backgammon was the ultimate game of good vs evil, black vs white.

ministroraven


If Sayid Jarrah was born in Tikrit, IraqWHY IN THE WORLD he has a valid passport from IRAN? And in the date at the botton of the passport what number you see? is it a 4 or a 7?

I'm going to guess the discrepancy of Sayid being from Iraq with an Iranian passport was unintentional. Reminds of that part when Sun meets Christian and we see a blond lady in the background, might have been a crew member.

It does look like a 4 to me as well. I'm one of those people who write 7 with a dash across the middle but that looks like a 4 to me.

Umm, well, it maybe an unintentional mistake as you said.

I think it might be possible that Jack was just hallucinatig his whole encounter with desmond (due to his drinking on the plane). That's why Rose and Bernard did not recall him being there and he suddenly vanished (wasn't in another shot the whole episode).

This show is so confusing, so I won't even try to make any theories up... I'll just go along with the ride.

NYCoolRunner


This show is so confusing, so I won't even try to make any theories up... I'll just go along with the ride.

+1

I do like making up theories although I tend to not go too complex with my ideas, I also mostly like to enjoy the story that goes along with it. I'm really looking forward to seeing how they will wrap this up though, I think I might have said this before if not here but elsewhere but as long as they don't all turn into goo and two of the main characters wake up on a beach somewhere I'll be happy.

gmillerdrake

BigBrainBrad


"They come, Fight, They Destroy, They Corrupt. Always ends the same" MIB
"(If or It)? only ends once, everything else before that is just progress". Jacob


I get the impression that Jacob is luring people to the island. But, how is he doing it?? and Why??
Everything else before the end is just progress, but, progress towards what?

In an earlier post I postulated that Jacob and the MIB are essentially playing some sort of game and that the MIB wins this game every time, therefore he is telling Jacob basically why are you wasting your time. Jacob is just saying hey, every game we play is jsut progress for me to learn how to beat you and all I have to do is beat you once. What happens when he beats him who knows. I've been thinking that there has always been this underlying theme in LOST that is along the lines of Science vs Spiritual. Perhaps the MIB represents the science aspect and is just saying hey everytime we do this experiment it turns out the same and Jacob represents the spiritual aspect of how choice (however limited it may be) may or may not be the variable that ultimately defeats the MIB. I am really hooked on this 'game' theme between the two, and even in the first episode Locke explained to Walt when they found the backgammon game that backgammon was the ultimate game of good vs evil, black vs white.

Yes, me too. I find the game aspect very interesting myself.

As for what happens when Jacob beats MiB, its true we don't know. But what I think is interesting is that if we assume Jacob being killed means that MiB has won... when Jacob was dying, he said "They're coming." So like I said in a previous post, that makes me wonder if there's someone(s) else in charge of this game that comes to "clean up" in some fashion once the game is over??


Brad - You raised a ton of really good questions... some of which I had thought of... and some of which gave me even more to think about for this darn show.

If Sayid Jarrah was born in Tikrit, Iraq WHY IN THE WORLD he has a valid passport from IRAN?

It's an Iraqi passport.  The left side says his country of citizenship is Iraq.

Rad_Drummer

If Sayid Jarrah was born in Tikrit, Iraq WHY IN THE WORLD he has a valid passport from IRAN?

It's an Iraqi passport.  The left side says his country of citizenship is Iraq.

The left side is an immigration form that you fill out to enter the United States not the actual passport.  It does appear that it's a mistake and they put on the immigration form that he's from Iraq but the passport is actually for Iran.

You are right jrf!