"LOST" Season SIX/LAST season discussion (spoilers)

Couple thoughts:

- Juliet knows it worked because in her last moments of life she was drifting in and out of conciousness and somehow found herself either in the timeline that has been shown or viewing that timeline. When she seemed to say the incohearant 'Do you want to get some cofee, we can go dutch' to Sawyer in the ruins of the Swan perhaps she was having a conversation with him in that other timeline, she then came to, and realized where she just was and was all happy that they met again in that timeline which showed her that it worked, asked Sawyer to kiss her and was going to tell him but her life ended just short. So I will not be suprised to see Juliet and James meet and have a converstaion in the 'sideways' timeline and the phrase 'do you want to get some coffee, we can go dutch' be uttered by one of them in that meeting.

- Thinking back to last season and the conversation that Jacob and MIB had on the beach (I don't remember it verbatim) the MIB said, they come and kill and destroy, it's the same everytime. Jacob said yeah but it only has to happen once, everything else is progress. I think that it is becoming clear (clear is a relative term here) that these two are playing some sort of game, one they've played many times and I'm thinking that the MIB wins it every time becasue of his insistance over the same outcome. Jacob all but agrees then says but it only takes once and the progress he is talking about is him learning from each 'game' to ulitmately beat the MIB just that once. I think that Jacob 'picked his team' so to speak when he went around touching everyone, the individuals he thought would help him win the game. As Priest of Syrinx pointed out, Jacob has given a false sense of choice to alot of people and the MIB has been more reactionary in his murders and tactical in who he posesses so it is not clear at all which side is 'good' and which side is 'bad' as of yet, and it may never be revealed.

Rane


Aliens would be the biggest disappointment in TV history.

"It was all a dream" would be worse for me, but Aliens would still be pretty devastating.  I have faith in the writers that it won't come to that......I hope.

Jonny108

Rane


Aliens would be the biggest disappointment in TV history.

"It was all a dream" would be worse for me, but Aliens would still be pretty devastating.  I have faith in the writers that it won't come to that......I hope.

Either one of these and I will throw a brick through my television.......

Yup. Very true. Dream would probably be just as bad, if not worse.

gmillerdrake


Couple thoughts:

- Juliet knows it worked because in her last moments of life she was drifting in and out of conciousness and somehow found herself either in the timeline that has been shown or viewing that timeline. When she seemed to say the incohearant 'Do you want to get some cofee, we can go dutch' to Sawyer in the ruins of the Swan perhaps she was having a conversation with him in that other timeline, she then came to, and realized where she just was and was all happy that they met again in that timeline which showed her that it worked, asked Sawyer to kiss her and was going to tell him but her life ended just short. So I will not be suprised to see Juliet and James meet and have a converstaion in the 'sideways' timeline and the phrase 'do you want to get some coffee, we can go dutch' be uttered by one of them in that meeting.

- Thinking back to last season and the conversation that Jacob and MIB had on the beach (I don't remember it verbatim) the MIB said, they come and kill and destroy, it's the same everytime. Jacob said yeah but it only has to happen once, everything else is progress. I think that it is becoming clear (clear is a relative term here) that these two are playing some sort of game, one they've played many times and I'm thinking that the MIB wins it every time becasue of his insistance over the same outcome. Jacob all but agrees then says but it only takes once and the progress he is talking about is him learning from each 'game' to ulitmately beat the MIB just that once. I think that Jacob 'picked his team' so to speak when he went around touching everyone, the individuals he thought would help him win the game. As Priest of Syrinx pointed out, Jacob has given a false sense of choice to alot of people and the MIB has been more reactionary in his murders and tactical in who he posesses so it is not clear at all which side is 'good' and which side is 'bad' as of yet, and it may never be revealed.

Your first point is great. I think you might have nailed that.

I like where you're going with your second point, but it's making me think that neither is good or bad, but rather, this IS a game for them. "They" in "They come and kill and destroy" refers to their game pieces, which are the people who come to the island. The game is that they always kill Jacob. He is looking to win one game where he can convince the people not to kill. I think MIB is thinking it is the inevitable outcome; humans will always eventually simply kill and destroy.

I don't think I'm explaining it well, but that's what your second point had me thinking.

I'm not going to throw theories around, but I had a thought that may come into play during the season.  There is one thing other than ash that has been said to stop smokey:  the sonic fence surrounding Dharmaville.  It would make an interesting place for a tactical retreat should it come to all out war with smokey as it seems to be.

Rane

gmillerdrake


Couple thoughts:

- Juliet knows it worked because in her last moments of life she was drifting in and out of conciousness and somehow found herself either in the timeline that has been shown or viewing that timeline. When she seemed to say the incohearant 'Do you want to get some cofee, we can go dutch' to Sawyer in the ruins of the Swan perhaps she was having a conversation with him in that other timeline, she then came to, and realized where she just was and was all happy that they met again in that timeline which showed her that it worked, asked Sawyer to kiss her and was going to tell him but her life ended just short. So I will not be suprised to see Juliet and James meet and have a converstaion in the 'sideways' timeline and the phrase 'do you want to get some coffee, we can go dutch' be uttered by one of them in that meeting.

- Thinking back to last season and the conversation that Jacob and MIB had on the beach (I don't remember it verbatim) the MIB said, they come and kill and destroy, it's the same everytime. Jacob said yeah but it only has to happen once, everything else is progress. I think that it is becoming clear (clear is a relative term here) that these two are playing some sort of game, one they've played many times and I'm thinking that the MIB wins it every time becasue of his insistance over the same outcome. Jacob all but agrees then says but it only takes once and the progress he is talking about is him learning from each 'game' to ulitmately beat the MIB just that once. I think that Jacob 'picked his team' so to speak when he went around touching everyone, the individuals he thought would help him win the game. As Priest of Syrinx pointed out, Jacob has given a false sense of choice to alot of people and the MIB has been more reactionary in his murders and tactical in who he posesses so it is not clear at all which side is 'good' and which side is 'bad' as of yet, and it may never be revealed.

Your first point is great. I think you might have nailed that.

I like where you're going with your second point, but it's making me think that neither is good or bad, but rather, this IS a game for them. "They" in "They come and kill and destroy" refers to their game pieces, which are the people who come to the island. The game is that they always kill Jacob. He is looking to win one game where he can convince the people not to kill. I think MIB is thinking it is the inevitable outcome; humans will always eventually simply kill and destroy.

I don't think I'm explaining it well, but that's what your second point had me thinking.

I like that idea alot - I'd be very happy to see the story take that direction. And you're right, a counter scene where James and Juliet meet in Earth X time almost definitely has to happen! Can't wait to see that. Although sadly at the moment it seems the only way the 2 timelines can intersect is through death. I love this Flash-sideways device.

If you want to stay confused you may not want to read this.  It's an interview with the creators explaining the goals of Season 6.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35221911/ns/entertainment-television/

I watched the episode again last night. A couple more things came to me:

- I came to the same exact conclusion about Juliet as gmillerdrake. In fact, I had come here to post about it.   It fits. First, she cries "It didn't work". Then as she's dying she seems to go incoherent and act like she's just meeting Sawyer. Then after that when she "snaps back" to reality, her demeanor has changed and she's happier and tries to give Sawyer the message that it did work. I think her dying allowed her mind to drift between alternate realities. Or something like that.

- I know there's evidence against Jacob inhabiting Sayid. (smokey/mib only seems to take the shape of dead people not inhabit them and we all assume he and Jacob have the same powers.) But something is definitely up between the two of them. In the scene where Hurley is talking to Jacob, Jacob is standing over Sayid and he is concentrating or thinking and ignoring Hurley. Then he announces to Hurley that they have to get Sayid to the temple. Maybe Jacob was figuring out what to do? Or contemplating if he should go into Sayid's body or something? Or maybe there are other lower level players in the game (someone like Richard or the head of the temple people) and one of those is inhabiting Sayid?

- It really does seem like a game or test of humanity and morality. Both players not being able to directly order the pawns to do things... but being able to sway them and convince them into acting certain ways. (I find this thought interesting, since Dharma was also on the island to conduct the same types of socialogical experiments.)

- As Jacob is dying, he says "They're coming." Anyone have any thoughts on that?? Maybe Jacob and MiB are in some sort of prison/exile/purgatory and/or meant to keep each other in line. Now that one is gone the whole balance is thrown off and someone even more powerful is coming to end the experiment?


Like I said before... just throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall to see what sticks because its fun.

jrf


If you want to stay confused you may not want to read this.  It's an interview with the creators explaining the goals of Season 6.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35221911/ns/entertainment-television/

I prefer to speculate and stay confused, so please no one come back here and quote the article. kthx.

- I know there's evidence against Jacob inhabiting Sayid. (smokey/mib only seems to take the shape of dead people not inhabit them and we all assume he and Jacob have the same powers.) But something is definitely up between the two of them. In the scene where Hurley is talking to Jacob, Jacob is standing over Sayid and he is concentrating or thinking and ignoring Hurley. Then he announces to Hurley that they have to get Sayid to the temple. Maybe Jacob was figuring out what to do? Or contemplating if he should go into Sayid's body or something? Or maybe there are other lower level players in the game (someone like Richard or the head of the temple people) and one of those is inhabiting Sayid?

I'm not so sure they have the same powers.  There hasn't been any evidence that Jacob can shapeshift, we have only seen smokey do that.

My wife just came up with an interesting theory that maybe Jacob and the man in black are actually the same person but from different realities and that is why they can't kill each other.  There are a lot of holes in the theory but its an interesting take.

It's not revealing in any way other than to clarify their approach to the episode. You can still freely speculate on the things you are already speculating on. In other words, it's not spoilers for anything more than the premiere episode.

- I came to the same exact conclusion about Juliet as gmillerdrake. In fact, I had come here to post about it.   It fits. First, she cries "It didn't work". Then as she's dying she seems to go incoherent and act like she's just meeting Sawyer. Then after that when she "snaps back" to reality, her demeanor has changed and she's happier and tries to give Sawyer the message that it did work. I think her dying allowed her mind to drift between alternate realities. Or something like that.

If that is the case maybe its not Jacob that will be taking over Sayids body but maybe non crashing Sayid takes over dying Sayids body(which might explain why he asks what happened when he wakes up(we have also seen peoples consciousness bounce around with Desmond...maybe the same happens when people are about to die only its from the other reality)).

I am starting to confuse myself.

Rad_Drummer

I am starting to confuse myself.

This. I wish I coudl just sit back and watch this show like some of you guys on this thread can. unfortunately for me I (along with alot of you) somehow get off on trying to figure this show out when it's been more than obvious for 5 seasons that it is a show that is impossible to figure out, and just when you think you have some sort of grasp on it they introduce some strange variable to jumble everything back up. It is very clever but at the same time very mind numbing. And yet I love it so....

Rane


Aliens would be the biggest disappointment in TV history.

+1,000,000,000,000

Dr Rambo

Rane

gmillerdrake


Couple thoughts:

- Juliet knows it worked because in her last moments of life she was drifting in and out of conciousness and somehow found herself either in the timeline that has been shown or viewing that timeline. When she seemed to say the incohearant 'Do you want to get some cofee, we can go dutch' to Sawyer in the ruins of the Swan perhaps she was having a conversation with him in that other timeline, she then came to, and realized where she just was and was all happy that they met again in that timeline which showed her that it worked, asked Sawyer to kiss her and was going to tell him but her life ended just short. So I will not be suprised to see Juliet and James meet and have a converstaion in the 'sideways' timeline and the phrase 'do you want to get some coffee, we can go dutch' be uttered by one of them in that meeting.

- Thinking back to last season and the conversation that Jacob and MIB had on the beach (I don't remember it verbatim) the MIB said, they come and kill and destroy, it's the same everytime. Jacob said yeah but it only has to happen once, everything else is progress. I think that it is becoming clear (clear is a relative term here) that these two are playing some sort of game, one they've played many times and I'm thinking that the MIB wins it every time becasue of his insistance over the same outcome. Jacob all but agrees then says but it only takes once and the progress he is talking about is him learning from each 'game' to ulitmately beat the MIB just that once. I think that Jacob 'picked his team' so to speak when he went around touching everyone, the individuals he thought would help him win the game. As Priest of Syrinx pointed out, Jacob has given a false sense of choice to alot of people and the MIB has been more reactionary in his murders and tactical in who he posesses so it is not clear at all which side is 'good' and which side is 'bad' as of yet, and it may never be revealed.

Your first point is great. I think you might have nailed that.

I like where you're going with your second point, but it's making me think that neither is good or bad, but rather, this IS a game for them. "They" in "They come and kill and destroy" refers to their game pieces, which are the people who come to the island. The game is that they always kill Jacob. He is looking to win one game where he can convince the people not to kill. I think MIB is thinking it is the inevitable outcome; humans will always eventually simply kill and destroy.

I don't think I'm explaining it well, but that's what your second point had me thinking.

I like that idea alot - I'd be very happy to see the story take that direction. And you're right, a counter scene where James and Juliet meet in Earth X time almost definitely has to happen! Can't wait to see that. Although sadly at the moment it seems the only way the 2 timelines can intersect is through death. I love this Flash-sideways device.

 
I think the 2 thoughts above make a great deal of sense. Great job! (Now, whether you are right or not...). The ONLY thing i "dislike" is the Sawyer/Juliet thing. I've hated it from the beginning, but I do think they will end up together! I just don't like Juliet AT ALL!!! I would rather see Jack with her and Sawyer with Kate. I'm in the minority I know!

Jonny108

Rane


Aliens would be the biggest disappointment in TV history.

"It was all a dream" would be worse for me, but Aliens would still be pretty devastating.  I have faith in the writers that it won't come to that......I hope.

Obviously alluding to Dallas when Bobby "returned". But, let me ask you, give me another way they could have done it? THAT WAS THE ONLY WAY!!!

OK...  Help me understand this.  It might be a little paradox or perhaps my brain has turned to mush trying to make sense of this stuff...

So the bomb detonates in 1977 and splits things into two separate realities.  So, if the result of the bomb going off in 1977 results in the destruction of the island and in turn prevents flight 815 from crashing, how did the bomb detonate in that universe?  Wasn't the result of the events in 1977 directly related to the plane crashing, etc.?  Did that make any sense?  It just seems like the plane HAD to crash and the events leading up to the bomb in 1977 had to happen in both universes. 

OK...  Help me understand this.  It might be a little paradox or perhaps my brain has turned to mush trying to make sense of this stuff...

So the bomb detonates in 1977 and splits things into two separate realities.  So, if the result of the bomb going off in 1977 results in the destruction of the island and in turn prevents flight 815 from crashing, how did the bomb detonate in that universe?  Wasn't the result of the events in 1977 directly related to the plane crashing, etc.?  Did that make any sense?  It just seems like the plane HAD to crash and the events leading up to the bomb in 1977 had to happen in both universes. 

Well what if the bomb didn't go off and that is what caused the island to sink(the electro-magnetism was not stopped which then ended up pulling the island underwater).

I am with you on the idea that the bomb didn't go off after all. I was wondering the whole time, did it or did it not go off? And was the "white flash + headache" perhaps due to Jacob dying before Jules managed to smash the bomb properly?

I probably missed something, somewhere.

prognerd


OK...  Help me understand this.  It might be a little paradox or perhaps my brain has turned to mush trying to make sense of this stuff...

So the bomb detonates in 1977 and splits things into two separate realities.  So, if the result of the bomb going off in 1977 results in the destruction of the island and in turn prevents flight 815 from crashing, how did the bomb detonate in that universe?  Wasn't the result of the events in 1977 directly related to the plane crashing, etc.?  Did that make any sense?  It just seems like the plane HAD to crash and the events leading up to the bomb in 1977 had to happen in both universes. 

Rad_Drummer kinda already said it, but you're assuming the bomb is what caused the island to sink. You really have no evidence that is the case.

gmillerdrake

Rad_Drummer

I am starting to confuse myself.

This. I wish I coudl just sit back and watch this show like some of you guys on this thread can. unfortunately for me I (along with alot of you) somehow get off on trying to figure this show out when it's been more than obvious for 5 seasons that it is a show that is impossible to figure out, and just when you think you have some sort of grasp on it they introduce some strange variable to jumble everything back up. It is very clever but at the same time very mind numbing. And yet I love it so....

Keep it going. It's entertaining to read your thoughts. For me, this thread is part of the Lost experience, even though I'm mostly reading instead of contributing to the discussion.

Rad_Drummer


I'm not so sure they have the same powers.  There hasn't been any evidence that Jacob can shapeshift, we have only seen smokey do that.

Agreed. I should have stressed that point more. We're all assuming they have the same powers, but they don't necessarily have to... which means why not Jacob inhabiting Sayid.

Rad_Drummer

My wife just came up with an interesting theory that maybe Jacob and the man in black are actually the same person but from different realities and that is why they can't kill each other.  There are a lot of holes in the theory but its an interesting take.

Ohh... I like it... That's a good one too.



I just remembered one of the other things I wanted to mention. Rose. During the "alternate reality" flight that doesn't crash... she's very different from the original trip. She's very confident and wise... and seems like she knows something is going on. She always seemed to have a sixth sense about things.

Also, Desmond on the plane. WTF and where did he disappear to?

My brain may asplode before this season is over.

Kitties, you obviously haven't really read many of the other comments, have you? At least those from before you posted. There are several things different about the flights in addition to those you mentioned.

Great to be back from a 2 week ban. What a cracker of an opening episode. Too much going and yet just as awesome as I was expecting from the show. Some great thoughts and theories out in this thread already. And like some I'll be megapissed if it ever turns out to be aliens or a dream in the end. I don't think it'll end that way but you never know.

Curious about several things but glad to finally connect smokey to MIB. Now we just need a name. I too am not convinced of the good/bad sides of Jacob/MIB as shown or as we are made to presume. I'll wait to see how it finally ends up.

Greatest show ever.

Sorry if this has already been posted.  Dr. Michio Kaku commenting on the physics of the show.
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=310189574738&id=184331976202&ref=mf

Interesting theories here, that's for sure. I'm still confused as hell, which is one of the reasons why this show is so awesome. To think that it will all be done after this with most, if not, all questions answered. I just really hope they don't pull an Indiana Jones IV with this one, or a Sopranos, or a Hurley wakes up in cold sweat.

gmillerdrake

Rad_Drummer

I am starting to confuse myself.

This. I wish I coudl just sit back and watch this show like some of you guys on this thread can. unfortunately for me I (along with alot of you) somehow get off on trying to figure this show out when it's been more than obvious for 5 seasons that it is a show that is impossible to figure out, and just when you think you have some sort of grasp on it they introduce some strange variable to jumble everything back up. It is very clever but at the same time very mind numbing. And yet I love it so....

  Very true. Once the show is over, it'll be very interesting just going back and looking at the evolution of Lost theories as the seasons progressed. The fact is that I don't even think even at this stage in the game anyone can formulate a theory that will prove 100 percent accurate, not because of any deficiency in the audience's intelligence, but just due to the simple fact that there are still too many unknown variables at play. I think some theories though, including yours, are probably pretty close to solving at least some of the puzzle. 

Here's one question that not many people seem to be asking: we've establishd that there is a war being waged on the Island, its been alluded to on numerous occasions, and has been going on for a very long time. 

But here's the thing: what's the ultimate prize? What are the parties engaged in this conflict (presumably the forces of Jacob vs. MIB, whatever the dynamics of that clash are) after? What's so astronomically important about this island that they've gone to such lengths to fight for it?

I don't know if this makes any sense as with his show most ideas are just thrown to the wall and perhaps it will stick but for whatever reason I thinking that the bomb did go off and it is the force of the nuke going off that broke the statue, leaving just the foot. However did Faraday locate the nuke post 1977? If so, then my thought is wrong. I don't know but I'm really curious as to what caused the statue to break.

Will the two timelines reconcile at all?

Rane


Kitties, you obviously haven't really read many of the other comments, have you? At least those from before you posted. There are several things different about the flights in addition to those you mentioned.

/me hangs head in shame.

I just skimmed through the first 5 pages... guess I skimmed too fast.

I did notice other differences... I was just pointing out the ones of most interest to me that I didn't think anyone mentioned. But I guess they did. Whoops.

Just found this, I think everyone who's heads have been spinning since day one of Lost will appreciate it. :P Sorry if its been posted already, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1PAB6Sgdp8

Priest of Syrinx


Just found this, I think everyone who's heads have been spinning since day one of Lost will appreciate it. :P Sorry if its been posted already, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1PAB6Sgdp8

I know it's meant to be funny but some of those questions are just dumb.

XeRocks81

Priest of Syrinx


Just found this, I think everyone who's heads have been spinning since day one of Lost will appreciate it. :P Sorry if its been posted already, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1PAB6Sgdp8

I know it's meant to be funny but some of those questions are just dumb.

Yeah, a few of those were pretty ridiculous and probably only served to extend the length of the song...I don't think anyone gives  ashit about that bird that may or may not have called Hurley's name. :/

6 pages of forum material is a lot to read through, so if this has already been said, I apologize.  I've only read the last couple pages.

This is really just a minor thing and a not a big theory of what's going to happen, but another possible minor different between the original 2004 and what we said Tuesday night is that we never saw whether Claire was pregnant or not in the taxi.  Could it be that because the bomb went off, Aaron will never exist?

For those talking about a dream, I think it has been mentioned by the writers that it won't be the answer of this TV show. 

zoso


For those talking about a dream, I think it has been mentioned by the writers that it won't be the answer of this TV show. 

Yeah, I once heard them say that it won't be a cop out ending such as a dream.

zoso


For those talking about a dream, I think it has been mentioned by the writers that it won't be the answer of this TV show. 

You mean the ones who said Nikki and Paulo were gonna be awesome? Ha OJ

Watched the first episode of the new series.

Says something about a show when I'm watching it as some sort of chore - I haven't really enjoyed it for a few seasons, at the point when I realised it was just made up as it goes along and there is no way there will be any rational answer for the questions that were raised in an excellent first series (The biggest joke is the turning of Emerson from a bit part character into basically the main guy in the story, nothing against his character who is one of the better ones). As it is I've just been wondering how they can possibly end it - Now it's got to the point where I'm not sure if I care, I'll probably finish it as it's so close to the end and there's a part of me that wants all those hours watching to have some kind of conclusion.

It struck me in this one how poor the dialogue has actually got now though - Actually had to laugh out loud at the progression between Hurley and Sawyer to reveal that he's now a lucky guy. That's just lazy writing.

Not meaning to slag off what is for some their favourite show - Just my comments on the series so far