"LOST" Season SIX/LAST season discussion (spoilers)

Portnoy


Well, yesterday and today were two of the worst days in my life...
(thank you everybody for your thoughts and wishes in Bongo's thread....I appreciate it...but let's not start posting about that here, so we keep this thread on track...)
 
Anyways, regardless of my personal tragedy, I couldn't be kept away from tonight's season premiere that I have been sooo looking foward to...
 
Here's my take:
 
Because we now know for sure from last season that on the Island "dead is dead", I think the MIB (the Man in Black) is now in Sayid..either that or it is Jacob if that's possible...

I also think the 2004 stuff is NOT an "alternate reality" at all like we are being led to believe...
 
I think the #815 passengers did indeed now land safely in 2004...but they will somehow end up on Flight #316 in 2007 and that's how they are back on the island in the 2007 we are seeing
(Which is why Juliet said "it worked".....also Juliet couldn't be saved as she was never an 815 passenger)
 
Also,
Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse were just on Kimmel and confirmed these things from tonights episode that were NOT a coincidence:

--- Michael, Walt and Shannon were not on the plane
--- Jack is now nervous and Rose is calm....the opposite of the original 815
--- Jack is handed 1 liquor bottle by the stewartess (not 2 like the original 815) and this time spills his drink
 
BEST.....SHOW.....EVER!
 
MP


 
 

That's nuts. For a second, when Sayid woke up, I had a feeling Jacob came back and used his body.
But that wouldn't make sense, Jacob is still alive. Remember the Japanese guy saying "There will be consequences?"

What about that snippet/preview we saw of Sayid being tortured?

The fact that Shannon, Walt and Michael being absent was not a coincidence.
Walt's too old and different from the first few seasons. And they couldn't get Shannon to film yet (busy scheduling)

What an intense 2 hours + Jimmy Kimmel w/ DL and CC at 12, best line-up for a Tuesday!

Good talk with the main Lost folks regarding the premiere.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

Maybe smokey was in the water making it look dirty. Taking over Sayid????

Rane


Good talk with the main Lost folks regarding the premiere.

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/02/02/lost-premiere-damon-carlton/

That may have possibly confused me more than I already am? Good find and good article though. Thanks.

its been 6 years now and you still don't know what happened?

Thats why after watching the first 4 or 5 episodes of season one.. i stop watching it... i can't stand waiting that much to understand whats happening and i knew it was going to be like that.

Not saying that there is something wrong with that.. just saying it doesn't go with me

I hope someday they release like a DVD with a summary of all important things from all seasons.. i don't know if i could even watch all seasons in dvd.

Savaron


Maybe smokey was in the water making it look dirty. Taking over Sayid????

Nah. He was still posing as Locke with Ben. And hasn't it kinda been determined that Smokey doesn't actually take over the bodies of anyone, but rather just appears as the dead? He hasn't controlled any bodies that we've seen. He simply takes on the form of a dead person. Hence, why Locke was both in the coffin and hanging out with Ben.

Kinda cool theory i heard was that the water was dirty due to Jacob dying, and the Others drowned Sayid intentionally so that Jacob could possess his body and make a return to a physical being on the island.

Regarding the smoke monster...it's established that he can't pass a line of ash.  However, he's been quite active over the past few seasons, despite the fact that he was seemingly "trapped" in Jacob's cabin.  The line in the ash around the cabin was broken in season (3? 4?), yet smokey was killing people way before that.  How is that possible?

You guys think you have a few theories?

http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/LA_X,_Parts_1_%26_2/Theories

I was reading that for 20 minutes, and only got half way through.

Hwangman


Kinda cool theory i heard was that the water was dirty due to Jacob dying, and the Others drowned Sayid intentionally so that Jacob could possess his body and make a return to a physical being on the island.

Regarding the smoke monster...it's established that he can't pass a line of ash.  However, he's been quite active over the past few seasons, despite the fact that he was seemingly "trapped" in Jacob's cabin.  The line in the ash around the cabin was broken in season (3? 4?), yet smokey was killing people way before that.  How is that possible?

I don't think he was trapped in the cabin by the ash, but the ash was keeping him out of the cabin. Remember the group showed up at Jacobs cabin in last seasons finale and the chic said that it didn't look like Jacob had been there for a while that someone else had been there. So the ash ring was broken allowing Smokey access to the cabin driving Jacob back to the Foot lair.

Although, since smokey can't kill Jacob, why would Jacob have needed the ash circle, or to retreat to the statue?

Although, since smokey can't kill Jacob, why would Jacob have needed the ash circle, or to retreat to the statue?

Well technically smokey did kill Jacob.  Ben might have stabbed him but it was fake Locke/Smokey that pushed him into the fire.

Portnoy


Well, yesterday and today were two of the worst days in my life...

Am I missing something? What happened today?

Niek_pas

Portnoy


Well, yesterday and today were two of the worst days in my life...

Am I missing something? What happened today?

Probably still in mourning, it's tough losing a loved one who you've grown accustomed to thier loyalty and counted on for that unconditional love and attention MP recieved from Bongo for the past 14 years.

I love this show, so happy it's back. After this episodes i now know more than ever and still as confused as ever, brilliant :)

The Lostpedia page is currently being edited by morons.  I had to revise an entry on the "trivia" section of last nights episode that stated none of the tail section survivors wre shown in the flash-sideways version of Flight 815.  Obviously this person didn't remember that Cindy (the flight attendant) and Bernard were tailies. 

A Change of Stevens


The Lostpedia page is currently being edited by morons.  I had to revise an entry on the "trivia" section of last nights episode that stated none of the tail section survivors wre shown in the flash-sideways version of Flight 815.  Obviously this person didn't remember that Cindy (the flight attendant) and Bernard were tailies. 

That's the problem with any of those 'pedia' sites. Whoever wants to post can post and post whatever they want. It's still fun to read but if you don't know any better you could end up being influenced by some junk that isn't correct.

I found a pretty funny write up of the premiere here on the Best Week Ever.

I enjoyed it.  It definitely left me with the usual WTF scratching my head... but I must admit it wasn't what I was expecting.

Some random thoughts...

- I think Sayid is dead and Jacob took over his body like smokey did with Locke. (Odaroo - Jacob is dead. He appeared to Hurley and said he had been dead for an hour.)

- I started wondering if the Biblical Jacob will end up having something to do this this plot. I noticed Best Week Ever referred to smokey as Esau, which I looked up and is apparently Jacob's twin brother who he fought with.

- So we know that in "present time" the island is fine. BUT at the beginning of the episode, we see the version of the Oceanic flight that doesn't crash (3 years previous to "present time") fly over the island, which has sunk. So this is either a huge plot hole or I think we must be dealing with some sort of alternate reality situation.


I probably have more thoughts, but this is all I can come up with right now.

If FLocke is ONLY "Smokey" and NOT also the Man In Black (Nemesis), all I can say is......WTF?????????

kitties_on_acid

- I started wondering if the Biblical Jacob will end up having something to do this this plot. I noticed Best Week Ever referred to smokey as Esau, which I looked up and is apparently Jacob's twin brother who he fought with.

They did fight over the fact that Jacob gave Esau a chioice to give up his birthright for some food becasue Esau was starving and he thought he was going to die so he did and Jacobs mother convinced Jacob to trick his father into blessing Jacob by having Jacob impersonate Esau to recieve a blessing usually reserved for the first born son. However, despite thier fighting and at one point Esau wanting to kill Jacob, years later when Jacob and his large family entered into Esau's land Esau greeted him lovingly and was happy to see him and they lived happily ever after so to speak. So I don't see how that Biblical angle could play out on the show......
 
 

Portnoy


[
I think the #815 passengers did indeed now land safely in 2004...but they will somehow end up on Flight #316 in 2007 and that's how they are back on the island in the 2007 we are seeing
(Which is why Juliet said "it worked".....also Juliet couldn't be saved as she was never an 815 passenger)
 

MP


 
 

I'm not sure if this works since the island is shown underwater.  Of course it wouldn't completely surprise me if the island could sink and rise as well as teleport.

gmillerdrake

kitties_on_acid

- I started wondering if the Biblical Jacob will end up having something to do this this plot. I noticed Best Week Ever referred to smokey as Esau, which I looked up and is apparently Jacob's twin brother who he fought with.

They did fight over the fact that Jacob gave Esau a chioice to give up his birthright for some food becasue Esau was starving and he thought he was going to die so he did and Jacobs mother convinced Jacob to trick his father into blessing Jacob by having Jacob impersonate Esau to receive a blessing usually reserved for the first born son. However, despite thier fighting and at one point Esau wanting to kill Jacob, years later when Jacob and his large family entered into Esau's land Esau greeted him lovingly and was happy to see him and they lived happily ever after so to speak. So I don't see how that Biblical angle could play out on the show......
 

I dunno... Nothing on the show makes any sense... I'm just throwing a bunch of stuff at the wall and seeing if anything sticks.



Thanks for the further explanation on it. Yer right... it doesn't seem to fit.

Let me just say it'll be a sad day when we can't look forward to new LOST episodes. I think we all get such a high from the anticipation, and even when we think we know what's gonna happen, we get surprises and revelations in pretty much every episode. LOST, good to have you back.

kitties_on_acid


I found a pretty funny write up of the premiere here on the Best Week Ever.

I enjoyed it.  It definitely left me with the usual WTF scratching my head... but I must admit it wasn't what I was expecting.

Some random thoughts...

- I think Sayid is dead and Jacob took over his body like smokey did with Locke. (Odaroo - Jacob is dead. He appeared to Hurley and said he had been dead for an hour.)

- I started wondering if the Biblical Jacob will end up having something to do this this plot. I noticed Best Week Ever referred to smokey as Esau, which I looked up and is apparently Jacob's twin brother who he fought with.

- So we know that in "present time" the island is fine. BUT at the beginning of the episode, we see the version of the Oceanic flight that doesn't crash (3 years previous to "present time") fly over the island, which has sunk. So this is either a huge plot hole or I think we must be dealing with some sort of alternate reality situation.


I probably have more thoughts, but this is all I can come up with right now.

I watched Jimmy Kimmel Live last night and the Lost writers were guests, and he asked them if Jacob was inhabiting Sayid, and they said that something is inhabiting him.

Any thought of going back and watching this show from the beginning now are ruined, because I'm not a fan AT ALL of time travel stories. Even given the suspension of disbelief required, they almost NEVER make sense and always raise more questions than provide answers.

***I think the water in the temple could be the fountain of youth.  That is why Widmore wants to get back, he knows this and wants to exploit it and increase his fortune.

***Alpert was most likely a slave on the black rock and when he said that Jacob gave him the ability to stay young he means he showed him the fountain

*** Jacob healed Ilana and now she blindly follows him assuming everything he does it good.

***I think in the end we will be left to decide whether or not Jacob or the man in black was the good guy.  It all depends on perception as to who you follow

I don't think it's Jacob, or MIB in Sayid, because as stated before we've never seen them actually take over a body, but rather appear as a person who died. So that water most likely revived the "real" Sayid. Beyond that I dunno, ^^^ I like the Fountain of Youth idea though as it would explain things a bit, but doesn't explain how the hell Jacob or MIB morph into other people, or how MIB is smokey. I just hope its not some aliens trapped on the island thing after hearing MIB say he just wants to go home.

Great start to the season - the sunken island was a real shocker. Great to see some old faces too, especially Ezra James Sharkington!

Well, whatever happened to Sayid's body, it is very clear it will not be the Sayid we know of from the rest of the seasons. Remember when Richard took Ben to the Temple? Remember his words? "After this, he won't be the same Ben".

Also, take a look at Jack and Locke's conversation. It would be as if Jack is not the usual man of science, but a man of faith, while Locke is the opposite.

BTW, Terry O'Quinn's performance when speaking to Ben is some of the best acting I've seen in television.

Terry O'Quinn is so awesome. His "I want to go home" speech to Ben ended with one of the most menacing looks I've ever seen.

I'm not at all convinced that MIB is actually the villain. In fact, I'm going to join the minority and suggest that in fact Jacob is the bad guy, or at least considerably more sinister than he and his acolytes (blind, cultish sycophants) make him out to be:

Consider this, the overaching thematic paradigm from day 1 of Lost has been the conflict between free-will and predetermination. It seems to me that Jacob is the avatar of Fate, the proverbial (and literal) weaver, the manipulator, the schemer. For him everything is a means, a thread to an end, and he could care less about the feelings of those he's orchestrating. He kills Nadia, he facilitates Kate's nascent criminal orientations and young James' bloodlust. Hurley makes the conscious CHOICE not to return to the island, and Jacob manipulates him to returning by exploiting his affection for Charlie (it didn't have to be a guitar case). He gives Ben a cold, empty, passionless gaze and tauntingly tells him "what about you?" when he enumerates legitimate grievances. And all the while, he operates under the false penumbra of giving his pawns free-will, exemplary of a true, master conman and manipulator.

Also consider Jacob's followers. They have all the unmistable features of a cult: they murder, they kidnap, they lie and steal. They have bizare jingoisms ("what lies in the shadow of the statue?"), are generally cold and humorless,  and hell, they live in a weird structure that resembles a site of Aztec human sacrifice rituals.  Why exactly is MIB supposed to be evil again? If you think about it , the Monster hasn't really killed all that many people, and almost everyone it has killed had it coming -Keamy's men, for examle. Its a moral arbiter, not a demonic entity, as MIB said last night, let's not namecall.

Also, invariably truth on Lost emanates from more auxillary characters. I concur COMPLETELY with Frank, the poeple who scream the loudest that they're the good guys are generally the bad guys. 

Like everything on Lost and life though, we shall see. 

I just re-watched last night's episode. 

Guys, my brain hurts.

Priest of Syrinx


I'm not at all convinced that MIB is actually the villain. In fact, I'm going to join the minority and suggest that in fact Jacob is the bad guy, or at least considerably more sinister than he and his acolytes (blind, cultish sycophants) make him out to be:

Consider this, the overaching thematic paradigm from day 1 of Lost has been the conflict between free-will and predetermination. It seems to me that Jacob is the avatar of Fate, the proverbial (and literal) weaver, the manipulator, the schemer. For him everything is a means, a thread to an end, and he could care less about the feelings of those he's orchestrating. He kills Nadia, he facilitates Kate's nascent criminal orientations and young James' bloodlust. Hurley makes the conscious CHOICE not to return to the island, and Jacob manipulates him to returning by exploiting his affection for Charlie (it didn't have to be a guitar case). He gives Ben a cold, empty, passionless gaze and tauntingly tells him "what about you?" when he enumerates legitimate grievances. And all the while, he operates under the false penumbra of giving his pawns free-will, exemplary of a true, master conman and manipulator.

Also consider Jacob's followers. They have all the unmistable features of a cult: they murder, they kidnap, they lie and steal. They have bizare jingoisms ("what lies in the shadow of the statue?"), are generally cold and humorless,  and hell, they live in a weird structure that resembles a site of Aztec human sacrifice rituals.  Why exactly is MIB supposed to be evil again? If you think about it , the Monster hasn't really killed all that many people, and almost everyone it has killed had it coming -Keamy's men, for examle. Its a moral arbiter, not a demonic entity, as MIB said last night, let's not namecall.

Also, invariably truth on Lost emanates from more auxillary characters. I concur COMPLETELY with Frank, the poeple who scream the loudest that they're the good guys are generally the bad guys. 

Like everything on Lost and life though, we shall see. 

You pose a great theory... **clicks the "like" link**

I think the "flash sideways" thingy is definitely an alternate reality. It's not only that the island has sunk, but the world changed. There are all these little differences like Hugo now being the luckiest man alive, the airline loosing the casket, jack getting only one bottle, Shannon still in Australia... etc.
As the season plays out, I think we'll see all sort of connections rising between the losties, implying that there are some things that you cannot change (they HAD to meet each other).

I cannot see how they are gonna tie everything up though. looking forwad to may 23rd

This season will be a good one I know it!! Sorry to hear about your loss Mike.

The more you put aliens into the equation the more everything makes sense.  Although I REALLY don't want it to be aliens.

Think about it,

The island is a vessel or spaceship with the power to time travel and heal.  Jacob and MiB are aliens.  Their homeworld was destroyed, and maybe each of them represented one side of whatever war destroyed it.  Also, the island may be a means to trap MiB.  Maybe he can only leave through a physical body.  Now lets say they land on Earth.  The island holds the key to the greatest powers man has ever known, so Jacob basically wants to see if humans are worthy to wield it in order to make a better world.  MiB wants to force his will upon the world through the power of the island while Jacob brings people to it in order to see if their free will leads them to use it correctly.  This is why they "land" the island in the past: to test humans throughout history.  The MiB tries to thwart Jacobs plan by "infecting" them.

My own personal theory is that Jacob and MiB are from the future, when the Earth is in ruins.  They go back in time to fix things.  MiB thinks the same thing will happen over and over again, while Jacob believes he can change things.  Maybe changing the #'s has some part in that.  This theory also goes with every theme in the show.  Freewill and all that.

i'm thinking of Indiana Jones IV - please don't!

My theory,
There is a time split. The people who were on the island when the bomb went off are now in the present (2004 or 2007 I can't remember). You can see this by the people near the statue who can see the fireworks from the temple.

The bomb also created another time line (like in Back to the future) which basically stopped flight 815 from crashing. So basically there are 2 entities for each person. Once you die on the island, you merge with your other part which never crashed on the island. For people who died on the island before the crash, it just seems like they were never on the island and they will never know it.

What do you think?

Aliens would be the biggest disappointment in TV history.