"LOST" Season SIX/LAST season discussion (spoilers)

One interesting theory I read, and forgive me if it's been mentioned before, is that the flash sideways might be an epilogue of sorts for the show.

Not sure what to make of that, but would be interesting.

If the MIB is the converse of Jacob, then I can't imagine that MIB would not know what everyone's intentions are (in regards to Sawyer, Kate, Sayid, and Claire).  Jacob knew what his compatriots intentions were without interacting with them directly, thus he could appear to Hurley, Richard etc.  without them ever updating him on the situation and he was already in the know.

We have to assume that the MIB is as powerful, if not more so than Jacob because his power is unbridled by righteousness.  The only real hope that Team Jacob (Lolz) has against the collective group of the MIB is to keep the battle lines clearly drawn.  Unfortunately, it appears Sayid, Claire, and Sawyer are on the MIB side now.

NDIrish50


If the MIB is the converse of Jacob, then I can't imagine that MIB would not know what everyone's intentions are
 
Jacob knew what his compatriots intentions were

Hey Patrick it's Gary.....I get the feeling that both Jacob and MIB may not know the specific intentions of everyone but are dealing more in generality and thier past experience in playing this game or whatever and just having a better understanding of the human condition and psyche than 'normal' people. Perhaps Jacob selects his candidates just based on how he believes that individual is going to handle certain situations from observing them (however that was either through that lighthouse or actually visiting them). Like they base how they believe the Losties will act and respond merely on an educated guess rather than speicifically knowing individual thoughts and motives. Even though they assume how these individuals will respond the wildcard is actually if they respond the way they hope for. Choice has been a major underlying issue throughout the series, has there been choice or not for these guys?
 
Like last season when MIB was telling Jacob that it ends the same every time and Jacob was saying it only took once, maybe they have such an uncanny way of choosing individuals to fill the role they need that the predictability is easy for them but perhaps this group of players will be the group of wild cards that do not conform to what either MIB or JAcob expect them to and this may be the one time that Jacob refered to and beats the MIB 

Anyone notice the parallels between the fates of the Losties on the island as compared to their alternative reality counterparts.

Ben did the right thing by Alex in the alternative reality thus he's still with Jack, Jacob, etc. on the island.

Sayid took the other path in the other reality, now he's with Smokey.

Jack is trying to be a better father than his dad, thus break the cycle in the other reality, and on the island he's still on Jacob's side.

Kate hasn't changed in the other reality, she's still trying to evade capture, now it seems she may be with Smokey too.

Just an observation.

goodgxt


Anyone notice the parallels between the fates of the Losties on the island as compared to their alternative reality counterparts.

Ben did the right thing by Alex in the alternative reality thus he's still with Jack, Jacob, etc. on the island.

Sayid took the other path in the other reality, now he's with Smokey.

Jack is trying to be a better father than his dad, thus break the cycle in the other reality, and on the island he's still on Jacob's side.

Kate hasn't changed in the other reality, she's still trying to evade capture, now it seems she may be with Smokey too.

Just an observation.

That's a very very interesting observation.

There's also Jin to be added to the 'stuck with evil team' list. In the alternate reality, he seems to be that same man we saw in the earlier seasons' flashbacks and now he is with Claire and MIB.

About not getting more explanation on Richard's immortality thing, episode 9 is supposed to be about him. So we are probably getting a whole lot of Richard info two weeks from now.

The principal is an actor who's done several things. I immediately recognize him as the professor in the AWESOME 80s movie, Real Genius.

We were making Real Genius jokes all night.

Anyone notice the parallels between the fates of the Losties on the island as compared to their alternative reality counterparts.

Ben did the right thing by Alex in the alternative reality thus he's still with Jack, Jacob, etc. on the island.

Sayid took the other path in the other reality, now he's with Smokey.

Jack is trying to be a better father than his dad, thus break the cycle in the other reality, and on the island he's still on Jacob's side.

Kate hasn't changed in the other reality, she's still trying to evade capture, now it seems she may be with Smokey too.

Just an observation.

That is a good theory.

Fantastic episode last night.  Liked the interaction with Jack & Richard.  Really liked the LA story of Ben, not sure how Alex Rosseau fits in but that was a very nice touch.  It almost seems like they know whats going on in the flash sideways.
 
Ben has always been one of my favorites on the show, and the bit with him & Illana were just.... can't even describe it.  So glad he did not die.
 
Was hoping to get some info out of Richard but I guess that will come later if at all. 

Ben is dead to me. He has always been my favourite character, but he has lost all his magic turning so wimpy. I understand it from a narrative prospective, but as a fan I'm immensely saddened. 

goodgxt


Anyone notice the parallels between the fates of the Losties on the island as compared to their alternative reality counterparts.

Ben did the right thing by Alex in the alternative reality thus he's still with Jack, Jacob, etc. on the island.

Sayid took the other path in the other reality, now he's with Smokey.

Jack is trying to be a better father than his dad, thus break the cycle in the other reality, and on the island he's still on Jacob's side.

Kate hasn't changed in the other reality, she's still trying to evade capture, now it seems she may be with Smokey too.

Just an observation.

 
Great observation!  I think you are on to something.

Very good episode, I like the way this season is heading. Great observations from everyone, but heres a few things I want to point out/clarify/discuss....

I don't think Kate "chose" MIBs side, she got caught up in the attack and ended up on his side, so to me she is definately a seed planted on that team who could end up sabatoging something, or doing something to prevent MIB from whatever he might do.

Another thing that is more of a question, is that I dont remember Sawyer giving a definitive answer on joining MIB, I remember the conversation they had in the house when Sawyer was drunk, but I dont remember him giving any specific answer that made me think, "yep he is with MIB".  I do remember it leaning toward that because of MIB always using manipulation of people getting what thy want, so if he said anything more specific, let me know.

I am going to leave everything alone for now, but man there is a TON of great storylines and mini Lost type scenarios going on. Sucks theres only 9 episodes left! I heard a rumor about what the next episode is "about" but I will keep that to myself.

carfreak222


I just want to see Faraday back, I mean if..."it worked" then Faraday is alive somewhere. I hope they address that. 

Unlikely.  Remember, he died before the incident.  Pretty much everyone they've shown so far that was on the island back in the 70s were evacuated before the incident.  Also, his parents hadn't been exiled from the island yet, so they too would be dead in the alternate timeline, meaning he wouldn't have ever been born.

what i did not understand when reconsidering Bens two timelines is the following:

Old Roger says to ben that "they should never have left dharma" or something like that, which implies that they left the island alongside with all the other dharma personnell and did not blow up, unlike charles widmore & co. this way also rousseau does never land on the island and alex is born in america. that'S all ok.

But now think of the crash/island sinks-timeline. The timelines split at the very happening of the incident, meaning when jughead goes off. Ben (and the rest of the seemingly evacuated personnel) are now off island, but the island remains to be there and does not blow up, jughead only causes whatever the button in the swan site is built around.

How does this fit into all dharma personnell being evacuated? did they simply see "oh the island did not blow up, lets get back?" Can someone clarify this for me? the more i think about that (and that is what you do if you dont get something ;)), the weirder it becomes

I can't help but notice the amount of biblical references though out the show...

For example...

-Sayid being tempted by the MIB - Jesus being tempeted by the Devil.
-Ben being redeemed and accepted for wrong doing - The prodical son.

Just to name a couple and not to mention the names used such as Jacob, Aaron, John Locke (the baptist) etc. 

yep, don't forget the Lost Supper promo picture.

Don't forget Christian Shepard as well.

I think the flash sideways universe is in fact the epilogue.  The characters that appear in them are the ones who did not become the new Jacob, and thus will have their lives return to normal (not necessarily good).  IMO, we should be keeping our eyes open for characters that DONT appear in the flash sideways, as they are the most likely successful candidates.  

Firestorm


I think the flash sideways universe is in fact the epilogue.  The characters that appear in them are the ones who did not become the new Jacob, and thus will have their lives return to normal (not necessarily good).  IMO, we should be keeping our eyes open for characters that DONT appear in the flash sideways, as they are the most likely successful candidates.  

A: The flash sideways could be an epilogue but, perhaps, it could be a sideways prequel leading the Losties to the island. The only person that we know of so far that has any indication of the island is Ben and Roger. Ben could take Roger back to the island as a last request due to his health. Roger just may want to live his last years sitting on a beach, earning 20%. 

B: There is no new Jacob (yet). Jack is the most likely candidate (no pun intended), according to recent polls, which showed Jack on top of, well no one, as long as he was on the island, Sawyer got all the poon (Kate, Ana Lucia, and Juliet), and, well maybe Jack got some Friendly strange. My Vote goes to Hurley for either the next "Jacob" or "Richard Alpert", which means being the advisor to whomever becomes "Jacob". I only say that b/c Richard is ready to retire and leave the island where he'll live the rest of his days in a valley surrounded by mountains. 


C: Each of the next episodes are all character centric. For example the last episode was Bencentric. I know we have Richard, Sun and Jin, Hurley, and Sawyer centric episodes coming. The entire list of who the centric is, is TBA. So, just because they haven't been shown yet doesn't mean that any missing character will not play a pivotal role. C. Widmore is about to show up which will probably lead to (hopefully) Eloise Hawking, Daniel Faraday, Charlotte Lewis, and brother Desmond also appearing. So only time will tell...

*Since Ben left the island possibly before the incident, that would initially mean that C. Widmore was still the leader of the people. We can only assume that he left the island as before and fathered Penny. Or maybe not. He already has a baby mama on the island but, maybe he freaks out after she freaks out because she killed there son from the future. There is still the unknown reason as to why he was leaving the island originally. Isn't Penny older than Daniel anyway? 

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BigBrainBrad


B: There is no new Jacob (yet).

My point is that in the Sideways Universe, we don't know if this is true.  Keep in my mind we don't really know what the sideways universe is yet, or if it really is sideways.  If it is in fact an epilogue taking place after the events we're seeing on the island then its possible the two universes are the same, just on a different timeline.  So, if the events on the island take place BEFORE the sideways universe, then it's possible that a new Jacob was chosen and the sideways universe shows what happens to the candidates who were not chosen now that the island/original Jacob no longer has an influence on their life's path.

Still frustrated w/the lack of concrete answers.  We have 9 episodes left and they're still avoiding answering anything.  The Jack/Richard conversation could have been really insightful, but instead, it turned into yet another classic "Lost" talk where someone asks a question, gets a vague answer, and then just accepts it. 

Found a great post/thread that dissects the problems w/Lost in a respectful way: Problems with Lost.

Sorry for the double post, but I just had an epiphany.  The only character that hasn't appeared in the sideways universe that we have known since the first episode that I can think of off the top of my head is Christian Sheppard.  He doesn't exist in this new universe (can't find the coffin), and a new life (Jack's soon) has appeared to compensate for it (like Dogen's story about his son).  I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Christian is the new Jacob.

There are 12 episodes left, 11 if you count the finale as one.

A: The flash sideways could be an epilogue but, perhaps, it could be a sideways prequel leading the Losties to the island. The only person that we know of so far that has any indication of the island is Ben and Roger. Ben could take Roger back to the island as a last request due to his health. Roger just may want to live his last years sitting on a beach, earning 20%.

That can't happen because we saw the island under water.

My point is that in the Sideways Universe, we don't know if this is true.  Keep in my mind we don't really know what the sideways universe is yet, or if it really is sideways.  If it is in fact an epilogue taking place after the events we're seeing on the island then its possible the two universes are the same, just on a different timeline.  So, if the events on the island take place BEFORE the sideways universe, then it's possible that a new Jacob was chosen and the sideways universe shows what happens to the candidates who were not chosen now that the island/original Jacob no longer has an influence on their life's path.

Interesting theory.

Hwangman


Still frustrated w/the lack of concrete answers.  We have 9 episodes left and they're still avoiding answering anything.

 
Well, im sure they'll answer the important questions. A lot of them will be left to the imagination though, which is the way it should be. Even at this point I don't want my hand held through every mystery that happened, i mean, when the series is over i still want to think of the island as some kind of mystery, i dont want to know every little thing.

I remember reading somewhere that at some point in the series the two time lines will become one. It may happen with the events that will involve Widimore because we really don't know from what timeline he is coming from. IMO he is probably coming from their time (2007) line because what reason would he have to go back to the island if in the flash sideways the island is underwater? So confusing!!!

Ayatollah

Hwangman


Still frustrated w/the lack of concrete answers.  We have 9 episodes left and they're still avoiding answering anything.

 
Well, im sure they'll answer the important questions. A lot of them will be left to the imagination though, which is the way it should be. Even at this point I don't want my hand held through every mystery that happened, i mean, when the series is over i still want to think of the island as some kind of mystery, i dont want to know every little thing.

Yeah, not a fan of that.  I agree that that's probably what they'll do, but i think it's a cop out.  I don't want to have 50+ mysteries left unanswered when the series ends and just have a ton of speculation.  I spent several years watching the show, and one of the main things that kept me watching was the mythology.  I'd like to know the meaning of all that stuff.  I don't want to assume what happens after the final episode ends.  That's just lazy.

Hwangman

Ayatollah

Hwangman


Still frustrated w/the lack of concrete answers.  We have 9 episodes left and they're still avoiding answering anything.

Well, im sure they'll answer the important questions. A lot of them will be left to the imagination though, which is the way it should be. Even at this point I don't want my hand held through every mystery that happened, i mean, when the series is over i still want to think of the island as some kind of mystery, i dont want to know every little thing.

Yeah, not a fan of that.  I agree that that's probably what they'll do, but i think it's a cop out.  I don't want to have 50+ mysteries left unanswered when the series ends and just have a ton of speculation.  I spent several years watching the show, and one of the main things that kept me watching was the mythology.  I'd like to know the meaning of all that stuff.  I don't want to assume what happens after the final episode ends.  That's just lazy.

I couldn't agree more with Hwangman.
Just how I feel.

BigBrainBrad


A: ...........blah, blah, blah..................... Roger just may want to live his last years sitting on a beach, earning 20%. 

This made me laugh a lot.

Hwangman

Yeah, not a fan of that.  I agree that that's probably what they'll do, but i think it's a cop out.  I don't want to have 50+ mysteries left unanswered when the series ends and just have a ton of speculation.  I spent several years watching the show, and one of the main things that kept me watching was the mythology.  I'd like to know the meaning of all that stuff.  I don't want to assume what happens after the final episode ends.  That's just lazy.

Aside from who is MIB, who is Richard, who is Jacob, what the candidates are about, and what the island is (or what it's representing) those are the major answers left.  Dharma has been well explored and I'm not sure what is left there.  We know something about smokey and who all these dead people walking around the island have been.  Widmore then I guess is the other thing left and what his interest in the island is about.  We have to assume it has more to do than just wanting to come back because he's mad at Ben.  I don't think we'll be getting anything more about the numbers. 

I think the sideways universe answer will turn out to be fairly quickly resolved once they get to it.  I think they've actually answered quite a bit already.

Rad_Drummer

A: The flash sideways could be an epilogue but, perhaps, it could be a sideways prequel leading the Losties to the island. The only person that we know of so far that has any indication of the island is Ben and Roger. Ben could take Roger back to the island as a last request due to his health. Roger just may want to live his last years sitting on a beach, earning 20%.

That can't happen because we saw the island under water.

My point is that in the Sideways Universe, we don't know if this is true.  Keep in my mind we don't really know what the sideways universe is yet, or if it really is sideways.  If it is in fact an epilogue taking place after the events we're seeing on the island then its possible the two universes are the same, just on a different timeline.  So, if the events on the island take place BEFORE the sideways universe, then it's possible that a new Jacob was chosen and the sideways universe shows what happens to the candidates who were not chosen now that the island/original Jacob no longer has an influence on their life's path.

Interesting theory.

I'm basing my theories and ideas on what we have seen and would be plausible. Yes, we saw the island underwater but, we don't what time period it's supposed to be. The only guess would be looking at the state of the barracks and the statue. The barracks being in disarray look very similar to what they did in 1977 as well as 2007. It's anyones guess as to when the statue was destroyed only leaving the foot. If I had to guess (and possibly sink my own theories) then I could assume that the statue was destroyed from Jughead head, but then again it's not entirely possible because we have seen just the foot and a hydrogen bomb would have done some serious damage to more parts of the island especially around the swan hatch. Aside from that I have no idea what could have destroyed the statue. 

The only reason I said that a new Jacob hasn't been chosen is because we really haven't seen one. We can only assume once again that there is the chosen "Candidate" which has yet to reveal themselves. I try to base my theories on what I have seen and what could be the best possible scenario. Not, that anyone else doesn't do that but, too much speculation just creates more sideways theories. 

Until we understand fully why the island is underwater, we won't know what part it's supposed to play. Also, neither Ben or Roger mentioned anything that would lead us to believe that the island was underwater and unreachable. Whether I was reading into it to much or not, Roger seemed like he wanted to go back to the island. Perhaps that was the first taste of foreshadowing leading too the two timelines coming back together in 2007. I'm sure that next weeks episode will make us all do a U-turn and find a place to start over. One thing I would really like to is, what is the date that is most important? For example 1955 was the date that Doc Brown discovered time travel and where Marty ended up and changed the future for his family. It's like the pivotal date in the Back To The Future trilogy. Once we find that out I think we can all start putting more of the pieces together. 

BigBrainBrad

I'm basing my theories and ideas on what we have seen and would be plausible. Yes, we saw the island underwater but, we don't what time period it's supposed to be. The only guess would be looking at the state of the barracks and the statue. The barracks being in disarray look very similar to what they did in 1977 as well as 2007. It's anyones guess as to when the statue was destroyed only leaving the foot. If I had to guess (and possibly sink my own theories) then I could assume that the statue was destroyed from Jughead head, but then again it's not entirely possible because we have seen just the foot and a hydrogen bomb would have done some serious damage to more parts of the island especially around the swan hatch. Aside from that I have no idea what could have destroyed the statue. 

Uhhh, did you watched the premiere dude?. The part when the camera pans to the sky and then enters the water right after Jack talks to Rose, it's pretty clear to me that the time period of the Island being underwater is september 22nd, 2004.

When Sayid was making out with Ilana, he tried to remove her boot in bed, remember? She didn't let him, and kicked him right after.
People actually think Ilana is the Godess, four-toed statue represented on the island.

I think it's a little bit too Farfetch'd

I'm not sure where all this talk about the alternate story being an epilogue is coming from.  While the "why" and "how" of it isn't known, the "what" is pretty clear.  Everything happening in the alternate story is coming from the angle that Oceanic 815 never crashed(and many of the un-Losties lead lives slightly skewed from their previous path) because the island got sunk somehow(probably a result of the incident).  That's not even speculation, it's what the show is blatantly putting out there.  Could the alternate story be an illusion, a sort of quantum "aftershock", Hurley having weird dreams after some bad Dharma Ranch Dressing or any other number of things?  Sure.  But unless the final episode says "and none of this shit ever happened.  The end," then the alternate story can't be as simple as just being an epilogue.

I'm pretty sure Jack turns out to be a Cylon for being such a fuckin moron.

I wouldn't label Jack being a moron for the decisions he took so far.
Every character has a purpose, a reason; no one is good, no one is evil.

piuga

BigBrainBrad

I'm basing my theories and ideas on what we have seen and would be plausible. Yes, we saw the island underwater but, we don't what time period it's supposed to be. The only guess would be looking at the state of the barracks and the statue. The barracks being in disarray look very similar to what they did in 1977 as well as 2007. It's anyones guess as to when the statue was destroyed only leaving the foot. If I had to guess (and possibly sink my own theories) then I could assume that the statue was destroyed from Jughead head, but then again it's not entirely possible because we have seen just the foot and a hydrogen bomb would have done some serious damage to more parts of the island especially around the swan hatch. Aside from that I have no idea what could have destroyed the statue. 

Uhhh, did you watched the premiere dude?. The part when the camera pans to the sky and then enters the water right after Jack talks to Rose, it's pretty clear to me that the time period of the Island being underwater is september 22nd, 2004.

Yes, I did happen to watch the premiere of LA X.  It's very plausible that you are correct, in saying that the image of the island underwater is 9222004. I never thought of it that way so its a good point. That is the only time we have seen the island underwater since we saw it disappear back in season 4. Is it possible that the sideways 2004 is really happening between the time Ben moves the island and Locke stops it? Does anyone know how long the island was actually skipping through time?? The flash sideways could be looked at like a skewed tangent in time while the island is moving. A weird way to show how the universe is trying to course correct. I'm really just pulling some of these ideas out of thin air so I apologize if I sound like a hypocrite. 

Are the only people being affected by Time Travel, the people that have a physical connection with the island or with Jacob?? The only person that I can think of that has recorded data of time travel has been Daniel Faraday. How many times did he replay the same events? Hell, if he wanted too, Daniel could have easily taken his journal back in time and given it to himself with all the notes of cause and effect (of time travel) leading back to a specific time. Obviously, Daniel cannot stop his death at the hand of his mother or it would cause some major damage to the space time continuum. And now that I think about it wouldn't Eloise Hawking have Daniel's Journal?? If that is the case then she would have a lot of information pertaining to the future as well as Desmond being Daniel's "Constant". She has been called a temporal police officer by the producers, as a person who helps keep the correct course in time. She did seem to have a lot to do with making sure Desmond ended up on the island. Has it been shown that she forgave Widmore for fathering a child off the island?? Were they actually married or in a serious relationship?? Did Eloise dislike Penny b/c she was Widmore's daughter? 

Sorry for raising so many questions. I'm just hoping that some of them could have some relevance to the story. Maybe the next two episodes will shed some light on our theories with the introduction of Widmore outside the island in a sub (which pisses me off b/c if it was that easy to get to the island then why did the "6" have to take Ajira 316? Did Eloise give Widmore coordinates or did someone have a tracking beacon with them on the flight)?

Great episode tonight.  Loved Sawyer and Miles as Riggs and Murtaugh, whoever though of that deserves a raise.  And if you thought Charlotte was hot before....

I thought this episode was decent, but it was a bit of a let down to me after last week's amazing Dr Linus episode.

I apologize if this has been said, this thread gets really long to read through if you miss a week or two ... I think the thing about flash sideways is that its more than just "the alternate reality of what would have happened if the plane didn't crash." Its.. "What would have happened if Jacob never had influence over their life."

The whole fate vs. free will concept this show has been toying with for all six seasons.

kitties_on_acid


Its.. "What would have happened if Jacob never had influence over their life."

The whole fate vs. free will concept

that sums up pretty the only thing made clear in last episode..
it was ok, but it's that this being the last season i hoped for more answers, but looking at it as the 8th episode of a season, it's okay. There also must be some build-up for whatever has to come..