"LOST" Season SIX/LAST season discussion (spoilers)

Fuck, I just typed a shitload in here and then I lost my text because of a wrong click. ARGH. Let's try again...

Awesome episode!

I think the scale and John/MIB throwing that white stone out of the window, leaving the darker one on it, showcases the shift of balance between the light and the dark side, so to speak, John/MIB being evil, Jacob being good (and now being dead or at least temporarily out of the game anyway - who knows who that kid is?). Pretty symbolic.

And about Ben showing up as a teacher, here's what I think. If Juliet did blow up the island in this alternative timeline, then John and Jack and everybody else never came to the island, so Ben didn't either. The island was shown under water, so nobody could have come there. This makes me wonder if we will ever see Juliet again. She must be alive in this timeline as well. But this brings up the old time travel problem again. If she never came to the island, how could she have blown it up?

Concerning John Locke in alternativy reality and having a good relationship with his father, who knows what happened to his father isn't connected to the island somehow? Speaking of which, was it ever revealed how the hell John's father ended up on the island allowing Sawyer to kill him?  *searches lostpedia* "The producers confimed in "Access: Granted" that the Others did indeed bring Cooper to the Island, having staged an accident." Hmm.. since when are answers being revealed in special features? Argh.



Ah, puzzling show, but so great.

What really bothers me is, how can Ben be off the island in the "flash sideways" scene when he should have died as a child in 1977 when the island was destroyed.

FrankT


Fuck, I just typed a shitload in here and then I lost my text because of a wrong click. ARGH. Let's try again...

Awesome episode!

I think the scale and John/MIB throwing that white stone out of the window, leaving the darker one on it, showcases the shift of balance between the light and the dark side, so to speak, John/MIB being evil, Jacob being good (and now being dead or at least temporarily out of the game anyway - who knows who that kid is?). Pretty symbolic.

And about Ben showing up as a teacher, here's what I think. If Juliet did blow up the island in this alternative timeline, then John and Jack and everybody else never came to the island, so Ben didn't either. The island was shown under water, so nobody could have come there. This makes me wonder if we will ever see Juliet again. She must be alive in this timeline as well. But this brings up the old time travel problem again. If she never came to the island, how could she have blown it up?

Concerning John Locke in alternativy reality and having a good relationship with his father, who knows what happened to his father isn't connected to the island somehow? Speaking of which, was it ever revealed how the hell John's father ended up on the island allowing Sawyer to kill him?  *searches lostpedia* "The producers confimed in "Access: Granted" that the Others did indeed bring Cooper to the Island, having staged an accident." Hmm.. since when are answers being revealed in special features? Argh.



Ah, puzzling show, but so great.

The problem with your Ben theory is that Ben was on the island before it was destroyed and that's when the two timelines would split in 1977.

I think that they all were candidates (of whatever, I don't think that that explanation from the MiB was the truth) and ceased to be at some point.

I'm wondering if it's possible that when the young boy told MIB that "he knew the rules that he couldn't kill him" if he was referring to Jacob and not Sawyer as it seemed to be. Even though Ben technically killed Jacob the fact of the matter remains that somewhere in the rules of thier game neither of them are allowed to kill one another either directly or indirectly, therefore MIB in essence has cheated, perhaps causing him to get so upset and screaming that he couldn't be told what to do. Being trapped like he says he is for such a long period of time like it appears that they have been on that island and continually playing whatever game it is they are playing perhaps MIB just decided to see what would happen if this time around he bent the rules a bit. Hearkening back to the scene on the beach last season when MIB stated how badly he wanted to kill Jacob and the lack of concern Jacob displayed could have meant that Jacob knew that being killed was not allowed. And by MIB successfully exploiting the loophole he found, perhaps that somehow caused the flash sideways timeline? How would be the question if in fact that is what did happen, which is just more speculation. Such a fun show.......

GhostofCain


What really bothers me is, how can Ben be off the island in the "flash sideways" scene when he should have died as a child in 1977 when the island was destroyed.

That doesn't sit well with me either.  I was thinking that what if this wasn't really a flash sideways.  What if what we are seeing is not the result of the bomb going off but the result of something that has yet to take place on the island?  A flashforward into the corrected past.

In LA X the scene begins with Kate's eye. She is in a tree and her ears are ringing. She gets out of the tree and finds Miles. While conversing with Miles she notices the door to the swan hatch. She turns and runs to what's left of the hatch and she say's to Miles (after he asked her if that was the construction site) that it was the Swan hatch after Desmond blew it up. Kate then finds Jack and Sawyer. Jacks asks her where they are. Kate says the Hatch. Jack says they built it? In which Kate responds with yeah they built it. Sawyer then kicks Jack, and says you were wrong, thats the damn Swan hatch, blown up, just like we left it before we started skipping thru time...This ain't LAX...He put us right back where we started. Jack later says, the bomb must have went off and Sawyer responds, you think if a nuclear bomb went off we would all be standing here.

Is there any relevance to the fact that Juliet and Hurley both have on Red shirts??

Lots of times on the past seasons I've thought that the writers were only kinda hacking it up for a longer time, and that they had planned only S1 and perhaps S2; all the connections were made by crazy internet people and they just went along with it.
The numbers is one of the first moments when it all fell connected. I hope for more of these moments on the future episodes.

And MP, I'd have to unfollow your tweets if you're going to keep spoiling things :-)

I'm wondering if it's possible that when the young boy told MIB that "he knew the rules that he couldn't kill him" if he was referring to Jacob and not Sawyer as it seemed to be. Even though Ben technically killed Jacob the fact of the matter remains that somewhere in the rules of thier game neither of them are allowed to kill one another either directly or indirectly, therefore MIB in essence has cheated, perhaps causing him to get so upset and screaming that he couldn't be told what to do. Being trapped like he says he is for such a long period of time like it appears that they have been on that island and continually playing whatever game it is they are playing perhaps MIB just decided to see what would happen if this time around he bent the rules a bit. Hearkening back to the scene on the beach last season when MIB stated how badly he wanted to kill Jacob and the lack of concern Jacob displayed could have meant that Jacob knew that being killed was not allowed. And by MIB successfully exploiting the loophole he found, perhaps that somehow caused the flash sideways timeline? How would be the question if in fact that is what did happen, which is just more speculation. Such a fun show.......

Ben didn't kill Jacob, he only stabbed him.  The MIB was the one that kicked him into the fire.  There is no way to know if the stabbing wounds from Ben could not have been healed.

I very much like the idea that the boy is aaron. We never did find out what Kate did with him before coming back to the island, did we?

JNA


I very much like the idea that the boy is aaron. We never did find out what Kate did with him before coming back to the island, did we?

Yes we do. Kate went to visit Claire's mom and gave him up to her (right before she got in Ajira 316). I also think the boy is Aaron but I can not figure out how we get Aaron back on the island.

Walt appeared where he wasn't suposed to be too... and he also grew up fast apparently.

GhostofCain

FrankT


Fuck, I just typed a shitload in here and then I lost my text because of a wrong click. ARGH. Let's try again...

Awesome episode!

I think the scale and John/MIB throwing that white stone out of the window, leaving the darker one on it, showcases the shift of balance between the light and the dark side, so to speak, John/MIB being evil, Jacob being good (and now being dead or at least temporarily out of the game anyway - who knows who that kid is?). Pretty symbolic.

And about Ben showing up as a teacher, here's what I think. If Juliet did blow up the island in this alternative timeline, then John and Jack and everybody else never came to the island, so Ben didn't either. The island was shown under water, so nobody could have come there. This makes me wonder if we will ever see Juliet again. She must be alive in this timeline as well. But this brings up the old time travel problem again. If she never came to the island, how could she have blown it up?

Concerning John Locke in alternativy reality and having a good relationship with his father, who knows what happened to his father isn't connected to the island somehow? Speaking of which, was it ever revealed how the hell John's father ended up on the island allowing Sawyer to kill him?  *searches lostpedia* "The producers confimed in "Access: Granted" that the Others did indeed bring Cooper to the Island, having staged an accident." Hmm.. since when are answers being revealed in special features? Argh.



Ah, puzzling show, but so great.

The problem with your Ben theory is that Ben was on the island before it was destroyed and that's when the two timelines would split in 1977.

Ah yes I stand corrected... Can't wait to see how this all unfolds. Is it next week yet?

goncalo_viola


Walt appeared where he wasn't suposed to be too... and he also grew up fast apparently.

True be that. I remember a while back I had the crazy thought that this would all wrap back up around Aaron and Walt (maybe Aaron is the new Jacob and Walt the new MIB). That seems very unlikely but oh well...

If you watch the episode "The Man From Tallahassee" you´ll see that it was implied that the Others brought Anthony Cooper to the island.

One thing I was trying to remember about the last episode...   When Smoke/Locke is travelling through the barracks at the beginning, he stops and picks up a rusty old machete that he uses to cut Richard out of the trap.   I'm pretty sure we've seen that machete before, but I can't remember when or who used it last and why. 

A Change of Stevens


One thing I was trying to remember about the last episode...   When Smoke/Locke is travelling through the barracks at the beginning, he stops and picks up a rusty old machete that he uses to cut Richard out of the trap.   I'm pretty sure we've seen that machete before, but I can't remember when or who used it last and why. 

Is it the same one that Jacob used to fillet that fish up he caught in the fish trap in the beach scene where he and MIB had their infamous discussion as (presumably) the Black Rock sailed in from the distance? I can't recall any others using a machette at the moment. I'm sure that Locke and the crew must have used one throughout. Did someone leave it during one of thier time travel moments?

gmillerdrake

A Change of Stevens


One thing I was trying to remember about the last episode...   When Smoke/Locke is travelling through the barracks at the beginning, he stops and picks up a rusty old machete that he uses to cut Richard out of the trap.   I'm pretty sure we've seen that machete before, but I can't remember when or who used it last and why. 

Is it the same one that Jacob used to fillet that fish up he caught in the fish trap in the beach scene where he and MIB had their infamous discussion as (presumably) the Black Rock sailed in from the distance? I can't recall any others using a machette at the moment. I'm sure that Locke and the crew must have used one throughout. Did someone leave it during one of thier time travel moments?

The machete could have come from anywhere. The barracks, one of the hatches, or Mikhail's house. I can only assume it's irrelevant. I guess MIB/Locke wasn't carrying it when he took Richard into the woods. He could have just left it there as a point of reference to use when he needed to release Richard. 

As far as who the Boy was. I doubt it's Aaron. He would have only been around 3 years old. James "Sawyer" Ford could be a possibility. 

For them to play such and important role from behind the scenes and we haven't heard their names mentioned as much. I would put half my money on it possibly being a young Charles Widmore. We do see Widmore later on in 53 with darker hair so that might rule it out. I'm still curious to know the extent of knowledge that Eloise Hawking had. 

Could possibly be a young Jacob. The clothing and hair could easily match. 

If it's someone new then they better do a damn good job of tying it all together.

Now just for the hell of it... "Can't change the past, only the future"

As far as timelines go (and I promise I'll do my best to keep it simple and not stupid).

2004
2004 Altered

2007
2007  Altered

Mysterious Time aka: Island Under Water. It's a bit sketchy to determine an exact date. We saw the four toed foot in 2004 and in 2007. The deserted barracks look similar to the ones in 2007. One of the things we don't know is WHY and WHEN  the statue crumbled. 

How important was the event in 1977? We see the 2004 altered as well as the 2007 altered. 2004 altered could be the result of a nuclear bomb. 2007 altered could be the result of Desmond blowing up the Hatch. One of the many mysteries is whether or not Eloise Hawking, Desmond, and Daniel Faraday see 2007 altered and realize they messed up and make sure the Bomb doesn't go off. 

The only reasonable explanation for the Island being underwater would be from the nuclear bomb exploding causing a semi cataclysmic event. 

What if Jack is Desmond's new Constant. He appeared on the plane then he was gone. Oh the drama... and one more question. If the names in the cave are so special to jacob, then why would the MIB know about them. What if Jacob didn't write them inside the cave? What if it's the MIB's way of narrowing down who he has to so he can get home. I guess he is going to test drive a Ford.

I remember Jin using that machete, at the well.

ah now I wish I would have remembered this before I posted.

Are we seeing a 2004 alternate-alternate??

Reason I say this is b/c as I posted somewhere above, Claire's sonogram was dated 10/22/04.

In the last episode "The substitute" We see Locke going back to work, getting fired, planning his wedding to Helen, on good terms with his father, and his missing knives show up. 

Randy Nations is questioning Locke about his trip and we find out he took his "walkabout" trip on the box companies dime. Locke says that he has vacation time coming up in October for his wedding and they can switch the days. Subsequently Locke is Fired. His firing took place before October. Flight #815 would have landed in LAX on 9/18/2004 ( or 9/19/2004 due to time zone changes). So if Locke, Jack, Hurley, Kate, Sawyer, Boone, Charlie, Rose, Bernard, Cindy, Sayid, Claire, Sun, Jin, and The Cop all arrive at the airport on 9/18/2004 then why would Claire's sonogram have the date of 10/22/04 if she went into labor the same day?

Desmond was the only person that was on the plane in 2004 alternate, which we see disappear, and is not shown getting off the plane. 

What would the pivotal date in time be to fix/change the future.  In Back To The Future it was 1955, even though we saw Doc and Marty in 1885. I don't think the small things that happened then changed anything about the future 1985. 

Where is our photograph that let's us know things got fixed in Lost??

I can't recall but what exactly follows when Ben moves the island?

BigBrainBrad


Claire's sonogram was dated 10/22/04.

 
Maybe the date on the sonogram was Claire's actual due date.  Claire went into labor early and Aaron was born a month early, if I'm recalling correctly.  I could be mistaken, but I do believe they put the expected due date on the sonograms.

BigBrainBrad

Flight #815 would have landed in LAX on 9/18/2004 ( or 9/19/2004 due to time zone changes).

Actually I'm pretty sure the plane crash happened on 9/22/2004, so in this flash sideways, the plane should have landed on 9/22/2004.

My God I love this show.... gives me a headache and joy at the same time :)

faizoff


I can't recall but what exactly follows when Ben moves the island?

He appears in Tunisia in the future (some months later) and the Island starts jumping through time.

Hmm, so when they detonate the bomb in 1977, perhaps that destroyed the "wheel" or whatever that allowed them to move the island. Therefore, the island never started warping through time, which is why they were brought back to 2007 with the hatch destroyed - just as everything was before they first moved the island.

I'm sort of wondering why it is so important that Sayid didn't die, and why they didn't want Sawyer to leave the temple. The note that was in the Ankh was probably the list of candidates, and I'm assuming it has something to do with the numbers associated with them also. Or maybe they just don't want MIB to "recruit" them.

Also, I'm wondering if MIB was actually being sincere when he said he wanted to get off the Island. Perhaps he was trapped until he defeated Jacob, so he had to kill Jacob in order to get off the island. Or perhaps when the kid told him that he broke the rules by killing Jacob, he was actually afraid of some consequences, and now wants to escape.

I'm guessing that the only people who can see the kid are the "candidates". Also, did the kid have blood on his hands the first time MIB saw him?

jcmoorehead

I think I might have said this before if not here but elsewhere but as long as they don't all turn into goo and two of the main characters wake up on a beach somewhere I'll be happy.

QFT. This comment wins, although I don't think anyone else got it.

Kate x Claire is hot.

The producer people have stated that the 22/10/04 on Claire's scan was a production error.  I thought the last episode was definetly the best this season and I hope to see more episodes like that.  Brilliant.  I sure hoping the writers haven't bitten off more than they can chew because I wouldn't want to see the biggest disaster ending in tv history.  If Lost ends well, it will go down as one of the greatest shows ever...even though it is anyway ;)

Jonny108


The producer people have stated that the 22/10/04 on Claire's scan was a production error.  I thought the last episode was definetly the best this season and I hope to see more episodes like that.  Brilliant.  I sure hoping the writers haven't bitten off more than they can chew because I wouldn't want to see the biggest disaster ending in tv history.  If Lost ends well, it will go down as one of the greatest shows ever...even though it is anyway ;)

They've had a pretty good idea of how they wanted the series to end for a while, so there's no way they're biting off more than they can chew. All the things they're doing is happening for a reason.

I hate being a few days behind! 

Great episode! Has only raised more questions. I think it's a bit obvious that the bloody armed kid is Jacob. I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's a new character. I think the theory that the candidates can see him is decent. 

I'm not sure why the MIB would bullshit about it, but what if HE'S actually the protector of the island? Smokie has been referred to as a 'security system' before and Ben did summon him for protection. He just seems more of a 'protector' to me than Jacob. 

Also, we don't know yet if Jacob is actually the evil one. We know how influential he is - whatever he says, goes. If he tells everyone on the island that the MIB is the evil force - who is going to argue? 

Head fuck.

And I loved the numbers. Really interesting end to the episode. On lostpedia there is a list of all of the names that were crossed out (not sure if it has been mentioned earlier). You don't get crossed out if you die, as the name 'Straume' has been crossed out...and to the best of my knowledge Miles is still alive. 

It's just annoying that we probably won't see MIB and Sawyer for another 2-3 weeks. 

Leah

BigBrainBrad


Claire's sonogram was dated 10/22/04.

 
Maybe the date on the sonogram was Claire's actual due date.  Claire went into labor early and Aaron was born a month early, if I'm recalling correctly.  I could be mistaken, but I do believe they put the expected due date on the sonograms.

BigBrainBrad

Flight #815 would have landed in LAX on 9/18/2004 ( or 9/19/2004 due to time zone changes).

Actually I'm pretty sure the plane crash happened on 9/22/2004, so in this flash sideways, the plane should have landed on 9/22/2004.

You were definitely right on the date for the plane landing. I don't know why I was thinking it was the 18th. So thank you for clarifying. 

And to once again add to the on going list of crazy theories that have been spewing out of me like a volcano before the big eruption...

I'm curious now. I do remember this better than my dates... After Alex was killed by Keamy(sp), Ben went into his hidden room that if I recall correctly led into the tunnels that led to the temple possibly? Anyway, Ben summoned a Smoke Monster to attack the soldiers so they could escape the barracks. If the MIB is the smoke monster how could Ben just summon him to do his bidding? After re-watching LA X again (at least 3-4 times). When Ilana and her crew enter the Four Toed Foot and MIB/Locke is there, MIB/Locke actually leaves the room and then the Smoke Monster enters and kills everyone. Obviously Ilana didn't enter the chamber cause she is the only one left alive. So then with some nice camera editing etc. the smoke monster leaves the room and MIB/Locke reappears as to look like the smoke monster and says to Ben, sorry you had to see me like that or something. 

Then we see in "The Substitute" the eye view of the smoke monster. As it flies around and hears Sawyer Ford listening to The Stooges and covers several acres of the island it stops at where it saw a machete... MIB/Locke appears and cuts Richard down .........

So if the MIB/Locke can really transform into the smoke monster, why did it help Ben back at the Barracks? Also, why did MIB/Locke have to leave the room before changing into the smoke monster when it attacked the Ilana crew? It could have been for dramatic effect? 

For whatever reason I get the notion that MIB/Locke really doesn't know as much as it would like to. We will learn soon enough why he has to question Richard and Whether or not he is just running a con on Sawyer and others to try and "Go Home". I think Sawyer Ford has been in the con game long enough to know when to show his cards. The look on his face when Sawyer Ford asked him if he caught up with the kid... "what kid"? I think the MIB is clutching at straws at this point. I can't wait to figure out how all the alternate time periods are going to be explained as well as all the other mysteries. 

Tonight's episode was crazy!  Do you think the names David and Aaron are a biblical reference of sorts?  It's clear that Claire has gone nuts...

Who do you think number 108 was on the list/lighthouse gear?  I'm going for ol' Desmond... 

willyz


  It's clear that Claire has gone nuts...

Boy has she ever!  I hope she can get better, or maybe like John she's already dead.  I wasn't sure if Jin even knew that Kate had taken Aaron off the Island.  Anyway, Un-Locke will probably try to recruit him now.

XeRocks81

willyz


It's clear that Claire has gone nuts...

Boy has she ever!  I hope she can get better, or maybe like John she's already dead.  I wasn't sure if Jin even knew that Kate had taken Aaron off the Island.  Anyway, Un-Locke will probably try to recruit him now.

That's what I'm guessing as well.
 
And how cool was it having Jack find Shannon's inhaler and the coffin he wrecked in Season One.

Before Claire stuck that man in the gut with the axe did he say that 'they' had found her and taken her back to the temple? I'm assuming then that they dipped her in the bath as well which would explain her lack of memory to her handing over Aaron to Kate, 3 years in the woods alone with MIB whispering in her ear as her father and 'friend' would be good enough reasons for her to be in the state of mind she is in. That light tower scene was interesting for sure, I suppose that Japanese style building that flashed across the mirror could be referencing the Samurai dude at the temple. They found a great young actor to play Jack's son also, same sort of mannerisms and similar physical features. I thought the whole conversation Jack had with his mom about his appendix was significant in some way as well, maybe it shows how the two worlds are still meshed at some level? Still wondering how they are going to tie all this together and button the series up.

gmillerdrake


Before Claire stuck that man in the gut with the axe did he say that 'they' had found her and taken her back to the temple? I'm assuming then that they dipped her in the bath as well which would explain her lack of memory to her handing over Aaron to Kate, 3 years in the woods alone with MIB whispering in her ear as her father and 'friend' would be good enough reasons for her to be in the state of mind she is in. That light tower scene was interesting for sure, I suppose that Japanese style building that flashed across the mirror could be referencing the Samurai dude at the temple. They found a great young actor to play Jack's son also, same sort of mannerisms and similar physical features. I thought the whole conversation Jack had with his mom about his appendix was significant in some way as well, maybe it shows how the two worlds are still meshed at some level? Still wondering how they are going to tie all this together and button the series up.

I think Jack was looking at his scar from the Pilot, when Kate stitched him up.  I don't know how that's even possible but I think that why he doesn't remember.

Number 108 on the wheel/lighthouse belongs to Wallace, whoever that is? Also, remember Eloise Hawking stating that the island was'nt done with Desmond yet.

XeRocks81

gmillerdrake


Before Claire stuck that man in the gut with the axe did he say that 'they' had found her and taken her back to the temple? I'm assuming then that they dipped her in the bath as well which would explain her lack of memory to her handing over Aaron to Kate, 3 years in the woods alone with MIB whispering in her ear as her father and 'friend' would be good enough reasons for her to be in the state of mind she is in. That light tower scene was interesting for sure, I suppose that Japanese style building that flashed across the mirror could be referencing the Samurai dude at the temple. They found a great young actor to play Jack's son also, same sort of mannerisms and similar physical features. I thought the whole conversation Jack had with his mom about his appendix was significant in some way as well, maybe it shows how the two worlds are still meshed at some level? Still wondering how they are going to tie all this together and button the series up.

I think Jack was looking at his scar from the Pilot, when Kate stitched him up.  I don't know how that's even possible but I think that why he doesn't remember.

Yeah I was thinking between that and the red mark he had on his neck on the plane that somehow the two times have shared traits both physically and mentally. The strange deja vu that the characters in the LAX off island time are having and these apparent physical carry overs certainly must be more than co-incedence. They must have made a point to highlight this for a reason, and i'mm sure they will be very forthcoming and upfront about what that reason is...taste the sarcasm! 

SourD


Number 108 on the wheel/lighthouse belongs to Wallace, whoever that is? Also, remember Eloise Hawking stating that the island was'nt done with Desmond yet.

Desmond David Hume =/= Wallace

Plus, that test was meant to be for Jack to give him that little push to find out why hes actually back on the island. Didn't you listen to Jacob when he was talking to Hurley? It wasn't for that person.

but on another note, Desmond better pop up sometime soon. Im missing that man :(

FrankT


And about Ben showing up as a teacher, here's what I think. If Juliet did blow up the island in this alternative timeline, then John and Jack and everybody else never came to the island, so Ben didn't either. The island was shown under water, so nobody could have come there. This makes me wonder if we will ever see Juliet again. She must be alive in this timeline as well. But this brings up the old time travel problem again. If she never came to the island, how could she have blown it up?
 

To solve your problem of Juliet blowing up the island, and therefore negating her presence on the island. Imagine it sort of like this:
When Juliet detonated the hydrogen bomb, she created two time-lines tangent to the original one, since both time-lines have the same starting point, traveling along either time-line could hypothetically reach back to the original time-line and anything changed in the original time-line would alter both tangent time-lines. example:

                                     tangent time-line A (still on island)
original time-line  /-----------------------------------------        
--------------------<
                            \-----------------------------------------
                                     tangent time-line B (Flash sideways's)

Unfortunately for me, I have trouble figuring out why characters like Ben Linus and Dogen appear off the island in the sideways reality, since they would have been incinerated by the hydrogen bomb on the island at the point the time-line split, where other characters were saved by time-traveling back to a point on time-line A (where the bomb hadn't gone off).