"LOST" Season SIX/LAST season discussion (spoilers)

NDIrish50


The Kahana was a threat because Widmore is a threat.  Widmore's departure from the island let the pressure off of MIBs neck from under the proverbial hiking boots of Richard's cohorts, and the fact that Widmore did what was conceived to be impossible (finding the Island, and returning) means that the set of "rules" that are constantly referenced, whether real or not, are proved to be incorrect.

Widmore and Eloise are the only living people (that we know of) that are privy to knowing the intricacies of the conflict that is being waged on the island.  That is why Chucky W knew to bring the pylons with him, why he hunted down Desmond to return him to the place he promised he would never return to, and why Widmore's people are knowledgable about defending themselves against Smokey. 

all i'm saying is that Smokey didn't have anything to do with the destruction of the Kahana.  that much is obvious.

however, i really don't think Smokey and Widmore are enemies.

Bram was one of Jacob's bodyguards.  Jacob and Smokey are enemies.  Bram told Miles that if he went to work for Widmore, the wrong side was going to win the war.  so if Bram and Jacob are on the same side, Jacob and Smokey are on opposite sides and Bram and Widmore are on opposite sides, logic would dictate that Smokey and Widmore are at least both against Jacob, if not on the same team.

RocketSauce2112


all i know is that he apparently can't cross water.  and theres a considerable amount of water between the island and st. sebastian's.

Wait a minute!  Didn't Locke (smokey) and Sahid go to the other island?  Where Locke talked to Widmore on the beech, with the fence between them. And while Sahid was swimming around the dock (and saw them carrying Desmond out of the sub), Locke was back on the main island.

enchantgy

RocketSauce2112


all i know is that he apparently can't cross water Without a Boat.  and theres a considerable amount of water between the island and st. sebastian's.

Wait a minute!  Didn't Locke (smokey) and Sahid go to the other island?  Where Locke talked to Widmore on the beech, with the fence between them. And while Sahid was swimming around the dock (and saw them carrying Desmond out of the sub), Locke was back on the main island.

fixed

So apparently this is an april fool's joke, but the idea is pretty awesome.

Dharma Initiative Alarm clock:


http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/41/dharma-alarm-clock.shtml

Just too add a little more info to the conflict between Ben and Widmore. I posted several examples to show how some of the conflict probably started as well as some examples of how I think Ben has/had been manipulated by MIB which resulted in Ben making some mistakes. I think Ben has an affinity for children. His love for Alex and then his reluctance to kill Penny because of she and Desmond having a son. I can only guess that at some point MIB started manipulating Ben by using for example Alex's ghost. Ben was also seeing visions of his mother not long after he and Roger arrived on the island. It would make sense for Ben to be a bit trusting of certain people especially having never spoke with Jacob or seen him. Richard has always said that no one can speak to Jacob unless he invites them via Richard. So, Ben taking Locke to the cabin probably knowing that Jacob really wasn't there, then Locke hears something, all hell breaks loose, and Ben is freaked out because something or someone was in the Cabin. If Ben actually thought it was Jacob and he was pissed because he spoke to Locke, having never spoken to him, Ben shoots Locke as you will read below. It seems to me that it could be another way of MIB manipulating Ben to use him. Who knows MIB could have Ben manipulating both Ben and Widmore to go against each other. Widmore could have been manipulated by MIB telling him to send Ben to Kill Danielle and Alex. Perhaps Ben and Widmore will come to terms with each other and join forces to help defeat MIB. 

Seeing how Desmond comes into play is going to be awesome.

In 1988, Ben kidnaps Alex as a baby from her mother Danielle Rousseau, whose life he spares. Before leaving, Ben tells Rousseau to run the other direction if she hears whispers. 
He returns to the Others' camp with the baby, which disappoints their  
leader, Charles Widmore, who wanted Ben to kill both mother and daughter. 
Some time later, Charles is banished from the island for breaking the rules by leaving the island frequently and fathering a daughter with an outsider. 
Before he leaves the island by submarine, Charles tells Ben that Ben will ultimately be banished as well, because he was unable to sacrifice Alex's life.



Ben claims Widmore has "changed the rules", then summons the smoke monster to attack the mercenaries. He then leaves with Locke and Hurley to communicate with Jacob.



As Ben fails to find the Monster at his house, Locke, knowing the location of its lair, heads to the Temple with Ben and Sun. Ben and Locke enter a series of tunnels beneath the Temple while Sun waits outside the entrance. Suddenly, he falls through the floor, and Locke leaves to get something that he can pull him up with. The Monster flows out of a grate below the picture and surrounds Ben, showing flashes of decisions he made in his life involving Alex. It flows back into the monument without harming Ben. Moments later, Alex appears and pushes Ben against a wall. She says she knows Ben is planning to kill Locke again, and if he does she will hunt him down and destroy him. She orders him to follow Locke and do whatever he asks, then disappears. 



After Ben regains consciousness and finds Locke to be alive, he is visibly surprised but able to convince John he knew that bringing him to the island would resurrect him, and that he stopped Locke's suicide attempt merely to gain information. He tells Locke that he was trying to reach the main island to be "judged" by the Monster, having broken the "rules" by returning to the island, though Locke later comments it is for killing his daughter. Locke travels with Ben, taking a second boat.



When Ben discovers Locke can hear Jacob, he shoots Locke and leaves him for dead.



In 1977, Ben, at the time a twelve-year-old boy living with the Dharma Initiative, is brought to the Others to be healed. Richard allows the boy to be healed, despite knowing that Charles will not be pleased with his decision, stating that he does not answer to Charles. Charles, who is now the Others' leader, later visits Ben and informs him that he is now an Other, even though he must go back to living with his abusive father at the Dharma Initiative. Sometime after this incident, Charles and Eloise Hawking have a child, Daniel Faraday, who is raised off-island.

As he grows older, Charles begins to fall out of favor with the Others. In 1988, he orders the execution of Danielle Rousseau, to be carried out by Ben. Ben is unable to kill Rousseau when he discovers that she has recently given birth. Ben abducts the infant, Alex, without killing Danielle, and returns to the Others. Charles is furious, having expected Ben to kill both Danielle and the child. Ben claims that Charles isn't following Jacob's will, and forces him to back down by insisting he kill Alex personally.
In 1992, following increased conflict between the Others and the Dharma Initiative, the Others purge the island of the Dharma folk by releasing poisonous gas at Dharma's barracks. The Others subsequently move into the barracks. It is during this time that Charles is banished from the island as punishment for repeatedly leaving the island and fathering a child, Penelope "Penny" Widmore, with an "outsider." Charles tells Ben, the Others' new leader, that one day he would have to choose between Alex, now his adopted daughter, and the island.

BigBrainBrad


Just too add a little more info to the conflict between Ben and Widmore. I posted several examples to show how some of the conflict probably started as well as some examples of how I think Ben has/had been manipulated by MIB which resulted in Ben making some mistakes. I think Ben has an affinity for children. His love for Alex and then his reluctance to kill Penny because of she and Desmond having a son. I can only guess that at some point MIB started manipulating Ben by using for example Alex's ghost. Ben was also seeing visions of his mother not long after he and Roger arrived on the island. It would make sense for Ben to be a bit trusting of certain people especially having never spoke with Jacob or seen him. Richard has always said that no one can speak to Jacob unless he invites them via Richard. So, Ben taking Locke to the cabin probably knowing that Jacob really wasn't there, then Locke hears something, all hell breaks loose, and Ben is freaked out because something or someone was in the Cabin. If Ben actually thought it was Jacob and he was pissed because he spoke to Locke, having never spoken to him, Ben shoots Locke as you will read below. It seems to me that it could be another way of MIB manipulating Ben to use him. Who knows MIB could have Ben manipulating both Ben and Widmore to go against each other. Widmore could have been manipulated by MIB telling him to send Ben to Kill Danielle and Alex. Perhaps Ben and Widmore will come to terms with each other and join forces to help defeat MIB. 

Seeing how Desmond comes into play is going to be awesome.

In 1988, Ben kidnaps Alex as a baby from her mother Danielle Rousseau, whose life he spares. Before leaving, Ben tells Rousseau to run the other direction if she hears whispers. 
He returns to the Others' camp with the baby, which disappoints their  
leader, Charles Widmore, who wanted Ben to kill both mother and daughter. 
Some time later, Charles is banished from the island for breaking the rules by leaving the island frequently and fathering a daughter with an outsider. 
Before he leaves the island by submarine, Charles tells Ben that Ben will ultimately be banished as well, because he was unable to sacrifice Alex's life.



Ben claims Widmore has "changed the rules", then summons the smoke monster to attack the mercenaries. He then leaves with Locke and Hurley to communicate with Jacob.



As Ben fails to find the Monster at his house, Locke, knowing the location of its lair, heads to the Temple with Ben and Sun. Ben and Locke enter a series of tunnels beneath the Temple while Sun waits outside the entrance. Suddenly, he falls through the floor, and Locke leaves to get something that he can pull him up with. The Monster flows out of a grate below the picture and surrounds Ben, showing flashes of decisions he made in his life involving Alex. It flows back into the monument without harming Ben. Moments later, Alex appears and pushes Ben against a wall. She says she knows Ben is planning to kill Locke again, and if he does she will hunt him down and destroy him. She orders him to follow Locke and do whatever he asks, then disappears. 



After Ben regains consciousness and finds Locke to be alive, he is visibly surprised but able to convince John he knew that bringing him to the island would resurrect him, and that he stopped Locke's suicide attempt merely to gain information. He tells Locke that he was trying to reach the main island to be "judged" by the Monster, having broken the "rules" by returning to the island, though Locke later comments it is for killing his daughter. Locke travels with Ben, taking a second boat.



When Ben discovers Locke can hear Jacob, he shoots Locke and leaves him for dead.



In 1977, Ben, at the time a twelve-year-old boy living with the Dharma Initiative, is brought to the Others to be healed. Richard allows the boy to be healed, despite knowing that Charles will not be pleased with his decision, stating that he does not answer to Charles. Charles, who is now the Others' leader, later visits Ben and informs him that he is now an Other, even though he must go back to living with his abusive father at the Dharma Initiative. Sometime after this incident, Charles and Eloise Hawking have a child, Daniel Faraday, who is raised off-island.

As he grows older, Charles begins to fall out of favor with the Others. In 1988, he orders the execution of Danielle Rousseau, to be carried out by Ben. Ben is unable to kill Rousseau when he discovers that she has recently given birth. Ben abducts the infant, Alex, without killing Danielle, and returns to the Others. Charles is furious, having expected Ben to kill both Danielle and the child. Ben claims that Charles isn't following Jacob's will, and forces him to back down by insisting he kill Alex personally.
In 1992, following increased conflict between the Others and the Dharma Initiative, the Others purge the island of the Dharma folk by releasing poisonous gas at Dharma's barracks. The Others subsequently move into the barracks. It is during this time that Charles is banished from the island as punishment for repeatedly leaving the island and fathering a child, Penelope "Penny" Widmore, with an "outsider." Charles tells Ben, the Others' new leader, that one day he would have to choose between Alex, now his adopted daughter, and the island.

And?

RocketSauce2112

BigBrainBrad

And?

I was just trying to provide a little insight into what could have been the basis for the conflict between Ben and Widmore as well as a different look at Ben's character. 

And? And What? Is there an issue with the fact that I'm am just trying to participate in the discussion? Trying to offer a little insight for those that might want to read what I theorize or help add to there own theories. 


The fact that I'm replying to this is about as pointless as your post. If you disagree with what I have to say in regards to this Thread then you have the choice to read or not read. You are more than welcome to have an opinion whether you like or dislike what I post. Was it really necessary to even post that? Please, feel free to offer an objective critique as it pertains to this thread. If you feel like I posted a bunch of rubbish then so be it. I have that right! If you would like to clarify what I posted, so that it is more useful to this discussion, then you are more than welcome to do that too (not too sound like I am giving permission). There are a lot of other forumers who post some very interesting theories and facts. It only adds to my enjoyment of the show. It keeps me open minded to possibilities and things that I may not have thought of. Now, hopefully this doesn't tarnish the thread and we can all continue in a peaceful discussion. 

BigBrainBrad

RocketSauce2112

BigBrainBrad

And?

I was just trying to provide a little insight into what could have been the basis for the conflict between Ben and Widmore as well as a different look at Ben's character. 

And? And What? Is there an issue with the fact that I'm am just trying to participate in the discussion? Trying to offer a little insight for those that might want to read what I theorize or help add to there own theories. 


The fact that I'm replying to this is about as pointless as your post. If you disagree with what I have to say in regards to this Thread then you have the choice to read or not read. You are more than welcome to have an opinion whether you like or dislike what I post. Was it really necessary to even post that? Please, feel free to offer an objective critique as it pertains to this thread. If you feel like I posted a bunch of rubbish then so be it. I have that right! If you would like to clarify what I posted, so that it is more useful to this discussion, then you are more than welcome to do that too (not too sound like I am giving permission). There are a lot of other forumers who post some very interesting theories and facts. It only adds to my enjoyment of the show. It keeps me open minded to possibilities and things that I may not have thought of. Now, hopefully this doesn't tarnish the thread and we can all continue in a peaceful discussion. 

no way it had nothing to do with not wanting to hear your opinion, i just didnt see any opinion past the first paragraph.  it just looked like you told us stuff that had already happened, as if from lostpedia or something.  you gave us all this empirical information without offering any ideas of your own.

Des episode tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Plus, credits show Faraday, Charlie, and Hawking.  Should be a trouser-filler :)

"People that read tabloids deserve to be lied to."--Jerry Jerry Dingleberry

wooooooooooo

RocketSauce: Smokey did wanted the Kahanna to explode. Remember when Michael was preventing the Kahanna from getting destroyed at the Season 4 finale (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Michael)? Guess who was the guy that showed up right before the Kahanna went straight to hell?

It was THIS guy:




Since he was dead before all the events in the Island involving the passengers of Oceanic 815 ever took place, I'm pretty much he is Smokey. Hence, Smokey was partly behind the explosion of the Kahanna.

<------------ Here's the most quoted MP Forumer of all time

I don't think Christian is smokey. I'm not sure who or what he is yet, but I don't think he is the MIB.

dfrantz


Des episode tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Plus, credits show Faraday, Charlie, and Hawking.  Should be a trouser-filler :)

cmonnn...atleast say "spoilers" in your post

Raymitox


RocketSauce: Smokey did wanted the Kahanna to explode. Remember when Michael was preventing the Kahanna from getting destroyed at the Season 4 finale (http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Michael)? Guess who was the guy that showed up right before the Kahanna went straight to hell?

It was THIS guy:




Since he was dead before all the events in the Island involving the passengers of Oceanic 815 ever took place, I'm pretty much he is Smokey. Hence, Smokey was partly behind the explosion of the Kahanna.

Keamy is wearing a dead man's switch which will trigger a C4 bomb aboard the Kahana to explode as soon as it no longer senses his heart rate.

Michael decides to use liquid nitrogen to cool down the battery so that when triggered, as long as the battery is cold, the bomb will not explode.

Ben kills Keamy.

The liquid nitrogen runs out, and the battery heats back up enough so that the bomb explodes.


no matter who the guy appearing as Christian is, he had nothing to do with the Kahana's explosion.  the only reason he was there was to tie up Michael's storyline about him trying to kill himself and the Island not letting him.  Michael's job was to make sure everyone who was on the Kahana that was supposed to live lived, and he did that.  as soon as he was done, and as soon as the bomb was able to explode and kill him (think about it like the dynamite with Richard and Jack in "Dr. Linus"), Michael was allowed to die, and Christian was merely there to tell him that.

and once again, as we just learned in "The Package", smokey can't cross water without the aid of a boat.  do you think he used a boat to get to the Kahana to appear to Michael as Christian?  i severely doubt that.

Rustinpeace21

dfrantz


Des episode tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Plus, credits show Faraday, Charlie, and Hawking.  Should be a trouser-filler :)

cmonnn...atleast say "spoilers" in your post

The thread title says "spoilers."  At this point, no one should be reading this thread if they want to stay spoiler-free for the rest of the season.

I agree w/RocketSauce's post.  I don't think Christian was Smokey since it's been established that he can't cross water in smoke form.  I'm very interested in how they tie together the Christian story since he's been appearing and walking around since season 1 and we still don't know what the deal is.

And who do you think John Locke and every other character referred to when they were talking about "the Island" not letting them die?

Think about this for a minute (I could be wrong on this one):

a) Smokey has been manipulating John from who knows how long, whether it was to move the Island so that Widmore couldn´t find it, to find the Hatch... every one of those events were manipulations of "the Island". Since Jacob´s wish was not to directly interfere in the lives of the people living on the Island except for the Others, Smokey was the only one with an interest in telling people what to do through the Island schtick. And he has a motive: he wants to get the hell out of there.

b) If Michael died, he wouldn´t have been able to serve as Ben´s spy on the Kahanna. This was all in Smokey´s interest (without Ben knowing it, of course), since Michael was in charge of blowing up the Kahanna anyway. Smokey´s small contribution was to manipulate events so that the explosion happend at the time he wanted.

I admit though that my theory has a hole, wish is the whole "I can transform in smoke but I can´t cross the water" thing.

<------------ Here's the most quoted MP Forumer of all time

pretty sure there was a disagreement about posting upcoming spoilers a few pages ago. Yea this thread is a spoiler if you havent watched any episodes and decide to start reading it...But very rarely have people posted upcoming spoilers, and when they do its usually in purple font...obviously its a desmond episode coming up...but i had no clue about faraday and charlie

Raymitox


And who do you think John Locke and every other character referred to when they were talking about "the Island" not letting them die?

Think about this for a minute (I could be wrong on this one):

a) Smokey has been manipulating John from who knows how long, whether it was to move the Island so that Widmore couldn´t find it, to find the Hatch... every one of those events were manipulations of "the Island". Since Jacob´s wish was not to directly interfere in the lives of the people living on the Island except for the Others, Smokey was the only one with an interest in telling people what to do through the Island schtick. And he has a motive: he wants to get the hell out of there.

b) If Michael died, he wouldn´t have been able to serve as Ben´s spy on the Kahanna. This was all in Smokey´s interest (without Ben knowing it, of course), since Michael was in charge of blowing up the Kahanna anyway. Smokey´s small contribution was to manipulate events so that the explosion happend at the time he wanted.

I admit though that my theory has a hole, wish is the whole "I can transform in smoke but I can´t cross the water" thing.

my only points that i've been trying to prove to you are

1. Christian isn't necessarily Smokey (and in my opinion probably isn't), as it hasn't been confirmed or denied by anyone yet.

2. Smokey had nothing to do with the explosion on the Kahana.

give me a SPECIFIC event that proves smokey had something to do with the explosion of the freighter, not just "manipulating John from who knows how long" (which, by the way, i don't see how Smokey manipulated John into finding the hatch.  he and Boone had been looking for Ethan's trail when they found it).

and, when jack and richard were talking about not being able to die, they didn't say "the island", they were talking about jacob.

i think that "the Island" and "Smokey" have different desires.  saying to Desmond that "the Island isnt through with you yet" is not saying "Smokey isn't through with you yet".  Smokey doesn't have reaches outside of the physical island.  Jacob's job is to keep him (if he was in fact referring to Smokey when he was talking about the evil in the wine bottle) from influencing the outside world.  Smokey can't keep Michael from dying off-Island because he has no influence on him once he's gone.  if he could just do whatever he wanted to people off-Island he could've just turned into a dead spider and killed Widmore before he could send the Kahana.  he could've turned into Widmore's dead mommy and told him "DON'T COME BACK TO THE ISLAND OR ELSE I WILL NEVER LOVE YOU AGAIN".

Christian has appeared several times to people that didn't know him in life.  Hurley, Miles, Aaron, Michael, Sun and Frank have all met him post-death.  in my memory i can't think of anyone Smokey has turned into that the person he's appearing for didn't know.  he appeared to Ben as his mother and as Alex, he appeared to Eko as Yemi, he appeared to the Others as Locke, he appeared to Richard as Isabella.  

i also feel like the way he acts and the way Christian acts seem very different.  he seems to be able to exist at the same time as Smokey as well.  on day 6, Jack was looking at Christian when he heard the Smoke monster.  after the return of the Oceanic 6, Smokey (as Locke) was with Ben in the infirmary on Hydra island when Christian was with Sun and Frank at the barracks.  Smokey (as Yemi) said to Eko "You speak to me as if i were your brother", and Christian said to Locke "Say hello to my son for me", talking about Jack.  and as i said before, Claire, having been on the Island for three years, has had interaction with Smokey and Christian several times.  assuming Smokey can only take the form of dead people (since thats all we've seen), Claire has seen him in forms other than Locke for a while.  she instantly recognized Locke as "my friend", but seemed to think Christian was "my father".

since Ilana said that Smokey is stuck in Locke's form now, if we see Christian again this'll be settled.

I wouldn't be surpirsed if the "Smokey can't cross water" thing was invented for the last episode and that it is an inconsitency with previous episodes.  I think Christian was MIB all along, and until I see Christian on the island again or something proves me wrong I will continue to belive it.  We haven't seen him in a long time, and as far as I know the LAST time we saw him was with Claire near the end of season 4, right?  After she had run off to go crazy.  She was pals with Christian and remains pals with Not Locke.  Case closed (to me, anyway) - Christian was MiB, and the fact that he appeared on the Kahanna was because the writers hadn't realized they needed to restrict Smokey's movements.  The writers are good, but I don't think we can expect the details to remain completely air tight.  I see that as an "oops."

I can't think of anyting funny right now.

I think the last time Christian appeared was when Frank, Sun, and Ben were exploring Hydra island after the Ajira plane landed.  They were at a building and a light came on inside and you could see Christian walking around in there.  Early season 5, maybe?

Nortpoy


I wouldn't be surpirsed if the "Smokey can't cross water" thing was invented for the last episode and that it is an inconsitency with previous episodes.  I think Christian was MIB all along, and until I see Christian on the island again or something proves me wrong I will continue to belive it.  We haven't seen him in a long time, and as far as I know the LAST time we saw him was with Claire near the end of season 4, right?  After she had run off to go crazy.  She was pals with Christian and remains pals with Not Locke.  Case closed (to me, anyway) - Christian was MiB, and the fact that he appeared on the Kahanna was because the writers hadn't realized they needed to restrict Smokey's movements.  The writers are good, but I don't think we can expect the details to remain completely air tight.  I see that as an "oops."

he was in the frozen donkey wheel chamber at the beginning of season 5, and he was with Sun and Frank at the barracks in 2007.

i could see that the writers invented the movement restriction more recently, totally, but once i realized that Smokey (as Locke) was with Ben on Hydra island while Christian was with Frank and Sun at the barracks... THAT i wouldn't forgive the writers for "oops"ing.

Hwangman


I think the last time Christian appeared was when Frank, Sun, and Ben were exploring Hydra island after the Ajira plane landed.  They were at a building and a light came on inside and you could see Christian walking around in there.  Early season 5, maybe?

Later Sun and Frank actually spoke to Christian in Dharmaville, remember?   He showed them the picture form the 70s with their friends on it.

Ah yes, good call.

OK, I admit you caught me with my pants down on that one. 

<------------ Here's the most quoted MP Forumer of all time

Tonight's episode was simply spectacular!!!! 

SPOILER ALERT!

So is Desmond, um.... reality hopping?  Or, um time traveling still?  Charlie, and Faraday, and Ms. Hawking seem to have a grasp about what's going on... 

"Isn' t that Captain Stoobing?" - JP
"Ass... And balls!" -MP

Best. Show. Ever.

willyz


Tonight's episode was simply spectacular!!!! 

SPOILER ALERT!

So is Desmond, um.... reality hopping?  Or, um time traveling still?  Charlie, and Faraday, and Ms. Hawking seem to have a grasp about what's going on... 

I think he's going back and forth again like he did before in Flashes Before Your
Eyes.  Very good episode, and odd that after he was so calm with Widmore that he went with Sayid so easily. 

A bad DT album (as if such a thing will ever exist) is 100x better than anyone elses good album.

What an awesome episode. I always love the Desmond centered episodes. I have to watch that one again, there was so much going on. I remember a couple of times I think that Desmond was between times. Once in the helicopter when getting off the island. Once in a phone booth outside of a prison I think.

What craziness, nice to see Faraday back.

"I'm in a glass case of emotion."

Holy shit that was incredible.    Touché mr Lindelof, the conversation has indeed changed.    I think Widmore(origninal timeline) wants to prevent the the alternate timeline from becoming "real" because they will all cease to exist if that happens.

Good to see Charlie on the show tonight. Great episode, I've always like Desmond's character.

I'm thinking that Sayid will help MiB until the end when his alternate reality kicks in and helps him feel love again (or any emotion).

spocks_brow


I'm thinking that Sayid will help MiB until the end when his alternate reality kicks in and helps him feel love again (or any emotion).

Interesting theory, though I have a feeling Sayid's death has been foreshadowed for a while now...

"Isn' t that Captain Stoobing?" - JP
"Ass... And balls!" -MP

That scene when Charlie put his hand up on the car window while underwater was chilling.

Another incredible episode.

Flixster

My Blog

Awesome episode!
Although I'm quite confused with so many stuff regarding Desmond.

Refresh my memory, but he wasn't on the island when they blew the bomb...so after it was detonated he kinda went 'into limbo' and then it happened the "alternate life" when he flies on Oceanic 815 and then meets Penny. (old this flashsideways happening on this last episode).
But the confusing part is...didn't he already knew Penny and wasn't on the best terms with Mr.Wildmore before Oceanic 815 took off (even that he wasn't originally on the plane).

Oh help me, as with LOST there's so much to digest that so many things come off right after the next season.

Carpe Diem !

While he wasn't there for the bomb, it was the hatch exploding that caused him to be so fucked.

Huck


While he wasn't there for the bomb, it was the hatch exploding that caused him to be so fucked.

Yes, I remember that part.
But...he wasn't on the island when they detonated the bomb...though he was somewhere...and he was affected by that detonation, so that he had to live an "alternate life"...
or how was he affected by the blew of the bomb?

Carpe Diem !

I'm guessing that Desmond doesn't want the other "reality" and is willing to do whatever it takes to make sure that the current reality he is in continues.

On a side note: The scene where Charlie and Desmond were driving along a marina, was right behind the hotel we stayed in in February.  (The Ilikai in Waikiki)  The stadium where Penny was running was the Aloha Stadium in Honolulu :-)

Was cool to recognize some of the scenery :-)
(the pillars they drove by just before Charlie took the wheel)
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=21.284061,-157.839208&spn=0,359.996615&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=21.283572,-157.839245&panoid=drtnzD-nYWvoTq8Y3LHXxw&cbp=12,18.57,,2,0.79

[font="'lucida grande'"]

zoso


didn't he already know Penny and wasn't on the best terms with Mr.Wildmore before Oceanic 815 took off (even that he wasn't originally on the plane).

this is a completely different reality i think...not just what would happen if the 815 didn't crash.


tonight's episode blew my mind and reminded me why this is the greatest show EVER

My question is how did Widimore know when to come to the island with Desmond? The last thing that Desmond remembers is being shot by Ben. Therefore, he was in the regular timeline en route to island before Juliet detonated the bomb. Therefore, Widimore must have had prior knowledge that he needed to go to the Island before it was "destroyed". I think Eloise is a seer and is aware of ALL possible outcomes related to the island.

I enjoyed seeing Faraday again and being his typical geeky self. Excellent episode.

"How should I complete the wall?"

I didn't understand a lot of what was going on, but great episode!  I guess Desmond is really the key in fixing everything.  Now he needs to find everyone and convince them that there is an alternate reality?

That was one hell of an episode that is going to be really hard to wrap my brain around. 

Not really sure but, from what I could gather from this episode were the similarities from the previous episodes of Desmond jumping back and forth through time while en route to the freighter and on it. 

Desmond was told right before Widmore zapped his ass that he had to make a sacrifice or they would all die. Eloise has pretty much said the "we all die" phrase in previous episodes as well. 

So Desmond has to make a sacrifice during the flash-sideways 2004. Daniel Faraday has said that we can't change the past but only the future. I can't imagine what Desmond could do in FS 2004 that would be for the greater good in 2007. I only say 2007 since that is the reality we know. If Desmond some how went back to 1977 and stopped the bomb then that could possibly erase the FS 2004 and bring us to the present 2007. We can only guess that if we saw a glimpse of a FS 2007 that it would still be different. 

We know the island does exist in FS 2004 from the conversation with Ben and Roger. The only thing I can come up with is that Desmond will have to possibly do as he did before and bounce back in time to either meet someone or change something. 

Desmond was not on the island during the time skips so he couldn't time travel to that point and talk with anyone. I am definitely at a loss with ideas aside from what Daniel said about what if the FS 2004 wasn't supposed to be there lives. Does Desmond have to do kind of like Locke did and meet everyone and try and tell them a story about an island and that they have some special role to play? Locke only had to try and convince everyone to go back and then die. So what in the world would/does Desmond have to do in the FS 2004? 

Does anyone know what happened the third time energy was released from the Swan Hatch? 

1. The Incident
2. 815 Crashes
3. Desmond becomes clairvoyant?? 

Another question is (after watching tonight's episode) how will any of this tie into the conflict between Jacob and MIB? 

I wonder how much info Widmore and Eloise really have about the island... Could they possibly have some sort of bloodline with MIB and/or Jacob? Will the Adam and Eve skeletons ever be explained? As to who they could have been? 

Perhaps this episode is the beginning of the Flash Sideways combining with the current 2007. I can only guess that Jughead exploding caused the FS 2004 and "the incident' caused everyone to warp to 2007. And we are still left with questions regarding why we saw the island underwater. Could the island underwater just be the state of it in FS 2004? 

I definitely gotta give props to the writers etc. for this show. Never have I been so thoroughly entertained on a multitude of levels. My brain is going to have to take a huge dump when this is all over... watch out for back-splash.

@Rocketsauce2112. No worries brother, it happens when your caught up in the moment. 

InTheFlesh83


My question is how did Widimore know when to come to the island with Desmond? The last thing that Desmond remembers is being shot by Ben. Therefore, he was in the regular timeline en route to island before Juliet detonated the bomb. Therefore, Widimore must have had prior knowledge that he needed to go to the Island before it was "destroyed". I think Eloise is a seer and is aware of ALL possible outcomes related to the island.

I enjoyed seeing Faraday again and being his typical geeky self. Excellent episode.

it's been about 5 days since Jack, Kate, Hurley, Jin, Sayid, and Sawyer have been back.  i think thats plenty of time for a rich guy to kidnap a scottsman and bring him to an island in the south pacific from Los Angeles.



my problem with this episode is that it raises too many continuity questions for me to be happy.

Widmore and Eloise were on the island in 1977 when it exploded.  why are they alive?

Penny is younger than Daniel.  this means that Widmore and Eloise would've had to have survived the detonation of Jughead, leave the island and give birth to Daniel.  then, Widmore would've had to cheat on Eloise (or simply not marry her yet) and have Penny, and then marry Eloise.  its obvious that Daniel knows that he's related to Penny, so Eloise must know that he had a child with another woman.

why the hell are they even living in Los Angeles?  why not London?  i think Eloise was living in LA in the original timeline... but its just too weird.  how did Desmond come to work for Widmore?  was he ever a monk?  because if he's not, that whole really deep meaning for why he calls everyone "brother" is meaningless in the alternate timeline.

speaking of the Widmores (sounds weird to call them a family like that) and their location, why the doesn't Daniel have an english accent?

i guess the fact that we saw Desmond wearing a wedding band on the flight in "LA X" was a continuity error.  nice one, production crew.

why was Charlie in Sydney?  in the original timeline, he went there to try and get Liam to start Drive Shaft up again.  but apparently Liam is in LA in the alternate timeline, so why was he even on the plane?

the only reason i have a problem with all of this is that i know it won't get answered.  i love the idea of this alternate timeline so much, but it feels like they want to make too many character connections for it to make sense, and not answer how they got there.  why is Alex (and probably Danielle and Robert) living in Los Angeles in 2004?  theoretically, if they didn't shipwreck on the island they should've gone back to france, right?  why are Rose and Bernard living in Los Angeles?  they're from the Bronx.  why was Claire taking her baby to a couple in Los Angeles?  however Richard Malkin told her to go to LA, it seems somehow connected to the Island or Widmore.  he doesn't seem to have a reason to do so in the new timeline.  we also don't really know why Sayid was in Sydney.  Jin originally came to work for Mr. Paik so that he could marry Sun.  how did he come to work for him in the alternate timeline?

oh, well.  i did LOVE this episode.  just these little qualms that stop me from enjoying things :-(.

theory: this timeline is so dreamlike and "perfect" for everyone, as Eloise puts it, it's flawed.  different people have come into this reality at different times or something like that, and the continuity isn't perfect.

RocketSauce2112

InTheFlesh83


My question is how did Widimore know when to come to the island with Desmond? The last thing that Desmond remembers is being shot by Ben. Therefore, he was in the regular timeline en route to island before Juliet detonated the bomb. Therefore, Widimore must have had prior knowledge that he needed to go to the Island before it was "destroyed". I think Eloise is a seer and is aware of ALL possible outcomes related to the island.

I enjoyed seeing Faraday again and being his typical geeky self. Excellent episode.

it's been about 5 days since Jack, Kate, Hurley, Jin, Sayid, and Sawyer have been back.  i think thats plenty of time for a rich guy to kidnap a scottsman and bring him to an island in the south pacific from Los Angeles.



my problem with this episode is that it raises too many continuity questions for me to be happy.

Widmore and Eloise were on the island in 1977 when it exploded.  why are they alive?

Penny is younger than Daniel.  this means that Widmore and Eloise would've had to have survived the detonation of Jughead, leave the island and give birth to Daniel.  then, Widmore would've had to cheat on Eloise (or simply not marry her yet) and have Penny, and then marry Eloise.  its obvious that Daniel knows that he's related to Penny, so Eloise must know that he had a child with another woman.

why the hell are they even living in Los Angeles?  why not London?  i think Eloise was living in LA in the original timeline... but its just too weird.  how did Desmond come to work for Widmore?  was he ever a monk?  because if he's not, that whole really deep meaning for why he calls everyone "brother" is meaningless in the alternate timeline.

speaking of the Widmores (sounds weird to call them a family like that) and their location, why the doesn't Daniel have an english accent?

i guess the fact that we saw Desmond wearing a wedding band on the flight in "LA X" was a continuity error.  nice one, production crew.

why was Charlie in Sydney?  in the original timeline, he went there to try and get Liam to start Drive Shaft up again.  but apparently Liam is in LA in the alternate timeline, so why was he even on the plane?

the only reason i have a problem with all of this is that i know it won't get answered.  i love the idea of this alternate timeline so much, but it feels like they want to make too many character connections for it to make sense, and not answer how they got there.  why is Alex (and probably Danielle and Robert) living in Los Angeles in 2004?  theoretically, if they didn't shipwreck on the island they should've gone back to france, right?  why are Rose and Bernard living in Los Angeles?  they're from the Bronx.  why was Claire taking her baby to a couple in Los Angeles?  however Richard Malkin told her to go to LA, it seems somehow connected to the Island or Widmore.  he doesn't seem to have a reason to do so in the new timeline.  we also don't really know why Sayid was in Sydney.  Jin originally came to work for Mr. Paik so that he could marry Sun.  how did he come to work for him in the alternate timeline?

oh, well.  i did LOVE this episode.  just these little qualms that stop me from enjoying things :-(.

theory: this timeline is so dreamlike and "perfect" for everyone, as Eloise puts it, it's flawed.  different people have come into this reality at different times or something like that, and the continuity isn't perfect.

If I recall correctly didn't Alex mention to Ben that it was just her and her mother living together? I don't think it's relevant whether or not Danielle and Robert are together in the flash sideways. Maybe a simple answer will come up. 

We know Rose is living in LA b/c she works for a business owned by Hurley. 

Miles moved to LA when he was a baby with his mother before the incident, so him being there makes sense. Sawyer was from Alabama, but did he move to California? What state was he in Jail? I can only guess Cassidy lived in LA since that's where she later met Kate (again, they first met back in Iowa), who did live with Jack for a short time, in LA. 

I'll just throw this out there from what I can remember.

We have characters with origins in several different places (duh, right) whether they were born there, or lived there, or traveled there. There are also several other places that have characters have shown up in for whatever reason ie Michael boarding the freighter in Fiji. 

U.S.
-California 
-Alabama
-Iowa
-Oregon
-Florida
-New York

Iraq
Korea
Russia
France
Australia 
England
Canary Islands
Africa
-Tunisia


Now, I'm with you, why would all these people be showing up in LA in the flash sideways?

I wonder if Desmond's disappearance on the plane in LA X will be explained? Even though he shows up at the airport later in tonight's episode (Happily Ever After). Was the scene where he mentions to Claire that she will have a boy part of his visions? 

Are Widmore and Eloise the only people we have seen in the flash sideways that were still on the island when the incident occurred?? As you mentioned above, how Widmore fathered Penny, but is married to Eloise, and Daniel goes by the last name Widmore is baffling. Was Faraday Eloise's Maiden name? Or Hawking? Are Faraday and Hawking both aliases? 

I should go back and watch previous episodes again but, that would take too long lol... I thought I remember Miles mentioning something about his father in the flash sideways. If he did and he was still alive, then that would be another person that had not evacuated before the incident. 

So the story of the characters in the flash forward timeline is more confusing than trying to figure out why half the losties ended up in 2007 and the other half in 1977.

Since he was dead before all the events in the Island involving the passengers of Oceanic 815 ever took place, I'm pretty much he is Smokey. Hence, Smokey was partly behind the explosion of the Kahanna.

I don't think Christian is Smokey because he has appeared off the island to Jack and as we all know from this season, Smokey can't leave the island.

Widmore and Eloise were on the island in 1977 when it exploded.  why are they alive?

We still don't know for sure what happened in 1977. 


Half of this episode was excellent and I felt the other half to be a little bit of a waste(the conversation between Desmond and Claire at the beginning pointless).
I loved the Hawking and Faraday stuff and I love the fact that the worlds are finally starting to collide.
 

I' ve a suggestion to keep you all occupied. Learn to swim.

"Entertaining" episode last night. It seemed like a nice "set up" episode, where answers will be forthcoming. NEVER a huge Desmond fan, but he obviously IS a major player! This show is such a MF though! Best scene of the night was Charlie drowning in the car in the water and he puts his hand up to reveal.........

Couple of comments:

I think Christian is the personification of the island itself. "The island isn't finished with you yet" gives it an intelligence. The "face" of the island is Christian. He works/observes on behalf of the island. He is neither Jacob nor MIB and I'm going to go further and say neither of them can have an impact on him.

The island didn't just disappear in 1977, but rather the entire timeline is different. Sure, main things remain the same (Widmore is still rich, Charlie is still in a band, etc.), but it seems as though in the Flash sideways the island didn't exist. The Darhma Initiative may have, but maybe they were at a different island. Or maybe, like Ben's father, some folks left the island sooner than they did in the "normal" reality.

I won't be surprised if Desmond takes out Sayid in the next episode.

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Interesting article regarding LOST on E! Online. I've read through half of it thus far and there are some spoilers, some may not really be spoilers as some have already figured out some aspects of the show. You have been warned, please do not whine if you click it and read something you didn't want to know.

http://www.eonline.com/uberblog/watch_with_kristin/b175281_lost_redux_find_out_what_this_show.html?utm_source=eonline&utm_medium=rssfeeds&utm_campaign=rss_topstories

I had a moment there where I thought they were gonna turn Desmond into Dr. Manhattan....

Insert witty and most likely sarcastic pop culture reference here...

All details of what/how/why the flash sideways is in existance aside, judging from the conversation Eloise had with Desmond at the charity event directly after he inquired about Penny, she is well aware of the original timeline. I can't recall the conversation verbatim at the moment but her asking Desmond about who told you about her and telling him he wasn't ready and all that jazz says to me she knows about both timelines and is most likely in on how it came to be. And I'm willing to bet that if she has this information, so does the Charles Widmore in the Flash sideways making him aware of both realities as well.

"Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your mind looks at what happens.....Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars."                  Khalil Gibran

It seems that the boundaries between the two timelines are weak enough that you can get mixed up with your alternate self in near death experiences(and possibly in dreams, going off of Daniel's experience).  Juliet seemed to perceive the other timeline just before she died, and now we see Charlie and Desmond having similar experiences.  I'm not sure how Eloise knows what's going on, but it might actually be related to what happened to the island when the bomb went off, since she and Charles were presumably on the island at the time.  Maybe they got dumped in Tunisia or something.

Hey, here's a question:  What happened to MiB in the alternate timeline?  Would a nuke kill him?  I'm going to hazard a guess and say that, unlike humans, MiB can't exist in two timelines at once.  He didn't die in the alternate timeline; he just doesn't exist there.

If you knew the number
Of the steps you'd ever take
Bitter, I wonder
Would you run or cease to walk?

Weird feeling I just had...  What if these timelines are "attempts to get it right"?  Like in the movie groundhog day.

So, the bomb going off was the end of one "failed attempt". 

Scars Unseen

Hey, here's a question:  What happened to MiB in the alternate timeline?  Would a nuke kill him?  I'm going to hazard a guess and say that, unlike humans, MiB can't exist in two timelines at once.  He didn't die in the alternate timeline; he just doesn't exist there.

MAH BRUUTHHA has a theory that the alternate timeline is in fact a timeline where the MIB has actually 'escaped' the island and everything happening is by his hand. Even Eloise last night told Desmond that he 'had everything he wanted', this timeline could be one that is simply rewarding those who helped the MIB or Jacob for that matter "win" (depending on who wins or if there is a winner) Hurley being lucky, Jack having a son and father/son relationship he never had and I guess we will see how the other 815ners alternate reality plays out whether they get what they want or not. Who knows, as in most postulations on this thread they are just that and the show usually chews them up and spits them out. Such a drag this is the final season.........

"Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your mind looks at what happens.....Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars."                  Khalil Gibran

My friend had a really cool theory he told me today, tell me what you think:

So the theme of bizarro world seems to be "happily ever after" because everything missing from the islanders lives before the crash is now in their life. but the thing is, they all have serious holes still in their lives. and eloise is in on it. she knows its not reality but doesnt want it to be set right because the incident uncorked the wine bottle in that reality. smokie got free. juliette unknowingly sacrificed herself to release him. and either eloise has always been an agent for smokie or she is bizarro lands smokie released and set loose on the world. and damn if it doesnt make sense that shes on his  side in the "real" world to. think about it. she sent back the oceanic 6. widmores team went on ajira in opposition to smokie as stow aways. shes been trying to free him...

Im not sure how much of this is right, but damn it blew my mind when he told me! hahaha

what do you guys think? 

LOST FUCKING RULES!

KILLBOT ZERO (original instrumental video game metal)
KILLBOT ZERO (official website)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKnuWwzeN10 (KBZ MUSIC VIDEO)

Wow what a good episode. So much going on now and so many things slowly tieing together it makes my head hurt.

I bet when Desmond gets a copy of the flight log to see who was on it, his name is not on it. Just a guess. Then it will allow the show to "explain" what happened to him on the plane. Or like many of my predictions that isn't what happens.

This show is so amazing.

For some reason, this episode made me think of "The Spirit Carries On".  I seem to have been listening to it non stop today.

"I want to see the look on her face when she eats my pudding"

Rane

The island didn't just disappear in 1977, but rather the entire timeline is different. Sure, main things remain the same (Widmore is still rich, Charlie is still in a band, etc.), but it seems as though in the Flash sideways the island didn't exist. The Darhma Initiative may have, but maybe they were at a different island. Or maybe, like Ben's father, some folks left the island sooner than they did in the "normal" reality.

we know that the Island is at the bottom of the ocean in the flash-sideways from the first scene of LA X.  we see the barracks, specifically.

i was under the impression that Ben and Roger left on the sub that we saw in the last few episodes of season 5.

if "she works at the museum with my dad" (Miles referring to Charlotte) means that Miles' real dad, Pierre Chang, survived, then the way the Island is underwater is still a mystery.  i dont see how he could be standing on an Island that explodes, somehow gets submerged, and still survive on driftwood or something.  that would explain how Charles and Eloise survived.

BigBrainBrad

RocketSauce2112

InTheFlesh83


My question is how did Widimore know when to come to the island with Desmond? The last thing that Desmond remembers is being shot by Ben. Therefore, he was in the regular timeline en route to island before Juliet detonated the bomb. Therefore, Widimore must have had prior knowledge that he needed to go to the Island before it was "destroyed". I think Eloise is a seer and is aware of ALL possible outcomes related to the island.

I enjoyed seeing Faraday again and being his typical geeky self. Excellent episode.

it's been about 5 days since Jack, Kate, Hurley, Jin, Sayid, and Sawyer have been back.  i think thats plenty of time for a rich guy to kidnap a scottsman and bring him to an island in the south pacific from Los Angeles.



my problem with this episode is that it raises too many continuity questions for me to be happy.

Widmore and Eloise were on the island in 1977 when it exploded.  why are they alive?

Penny is younger than Daniel.  this means that Widmore and Eloise would've had to have survived the detonation of Jughead, leave the island and give birth to Daniel.  then, Widmore would've had to cheat on Eloise (or simply not marry her yet) and have Penny, and then marry Eloise.  its obvious that Daniel knows that he's related to Penny, so Eloise must know that he had a child with another woman.

why the hell are they even living in Los Angeles?  why not London?  i think Eloise was living in LA in the original timeline... but its just too weird.  how did Desmond come to work for Widmore?  was he ever a monk?  because if he's not, that whole really deep meaning for why he calls everyone "brother" is meaningless in the alternate timeline.

speaking of the Widmores (sounds weird to call them a family like that) and their location, why the doesn't Daniel have an english accent?

i guess the fact that we saw Desmond wearing a wedding band on the flight in "LA X" was a continuity error.  nice one, production crew.

why was Charlie in Sydney?  in the original timeline, he went there to try and get Liam to start Drive Shaft up again.  but apparently Liam is in LA in the alternate timeline, so why was he even on the plane?

the only reason i have a problem with all of this is that i know it won't get answered.  i love the idea of this alternate timeline so much, but it feels like they want to make too many character connections for it to make sense, and not answer how they got there.  why is Alex (and probably Danielle and Robert) living in Los Angeles in 2004?  theoretically, if they didn't shipwreck on the island they should've gone back to france, right?  why are Rose and Bernard living in Los Angeles?  they're from the Bronx.  why was Claire taking her baby to a couple in Los Angeles?  however Richard Malkin told her to go to LA, it seems somehow connected to the Island or Widmore.  he doesn't seem to have a reason to do so in the new timeline.  we also don't really know why Sayid was in Sydney.  Jin originally came to work for Mr. Paik so that he could marry Sun.  how did he come to work for him in the alternate timeline?

oh, well.  i did LOVE this episode.  just these little qualms that stop me from enjoying things :-(.

theory: this timeline is so dreamlike and "perfect" for everyone, as Eloise puts it, it's flawed.  different people have come into this reality at different times or something like that, and the continuity isn't perfect.

If I recall correctly didn't Alex mention to Ben that it was just her and her mother living together? I don't think it's relevant whether or not Danielle and Robert are together in the flash sideways. Maybe a simple answer will come up. 

We know Rose is living in LA b/c she works for a business owned by Hurley. 

Miles moved to LA when he was a baby with his mother before the incident, so him being there makes sense. Sawyer was from Alabama, but did he move to California? What state was he in Jail? I can only guess Cassidy lived in LA since that's where she later met Kate (again, they first met back in Iowa), who did live with Jack for a short time, in LA. 

I'll just throw this out there from what I can remember.

We have characters with origins in several different places (duh, right) whether they were born there, or lived there, or traveled there. There are also several other places that have characters have shown up in for whatever reason ie Michael boarding the freighter in Fiji. 

U.S.
-California 
-Alabama
-Iowa
-Oregon
-Florida
-New York

Iraq
Korea
Russia
France
Australia 
England
Canary Islands
Africa
-Tunisia


Now, I'm with you, why would all these people be showing up in LA in the flash sideways?

I wonder if Desmond's disappearance on the plane in LA X will be explained? Even though he shows up at the airport later in tonight's episode (Happily Ever After). Was the scene where he mentions to Claire that she will have a boy part of his visions? 

Are Widmore and Eloise the only people we have seen in the flash sideways that were still on the island when the incident occurred?? As you mentioned above, how Widmore fathered Penny, but is married to Eloise, and Daniel goes by the last name Widmore is baffling. Was Faraday Eloise's Maiden name? Or Hawking? Are Faraday and Hawking both aliases? 

I should go back and watch previous episodes again but, that would take too long lol... I thought I remember Miles mentioning something about his father in the flash sideways. If he did and he was still alive, then that would be another person that had not evacuated before the incident. 

So the story of the characters in the flash forward timeline is more confusing than trying to figure out why half the losties ended up in 2007 and the other half in 1977.

you and i both say too much in each post.  i'm not familiar with how to make quotes smaller or how to take just my quote away so we'll have to deal with the fact that this is now a gigantic post. :D

i don't remember Alex saying it was JUST her and her mom, but thats not the point.  my problem is just WHY are they there?  it seems so forced.  like they're just trying to make all these connections again without it being logical.  if you're going to say "Jack, you were so naive in thinking that blowing up the bomb would only make your plane land, but now EVERYTHING is different", then everything should be different.  changing some things logically, making some things the same illogically, and changing other things illogically.  its like i said.  theres no reason Claire or Charlie should've been there anymore.

the simple answer for Rose, yeah, is that she works for Hurley now.  but that'd lead my brain to go in the direction of "how did she come to work for a company in Los Angeles when she lived in NYC?".  and it seemed odd for her to be on the same plane as her boss without anyone acknowledging it.

i agree that Miles being there made sense.  i knew he was from Inglewood anyway.  the question now is, who's "my father" that he mentioned working in the museum with Charlotte?  he DEFINITELY got his hand injured in last year's finale, and he was on the Island when the bomb detonated. so if he's alive i assume he's back with Laura and Miles, but why is Miles' last name Straume still?  maybe at the very least we'll get an origin for his last name... and Daniel's last name of Faraday doesn't match up with anything in the original timeline either.  the going theory has always been that Eloise, off-Island, had married a man with the last name of Faraday, that man had legally adopted Daniel, and then that man had died or divorced Eloise and she took her maiden name back; or Eloise's maiden name was Faraday and she married a man named Hawking.

do we know that Sawyer was in jail in the new timeline?  do we even know he had a relationship with Cassidy?  my assumption for the original timeline was that the Sydney officials didn't want to pay for a ticket all the way back to Jasper (or wherever he was living) and just got one to the nearest and cheapest city they could find, leaving him to get home however he could.  Cassidy was from Iowa (evidenced by the fact that Sawyer and Gordie ate at Kate's mom's diner), and as far as i know we haven't seen her yet in the sideways.  in the original timeline, i assume she just got away to Los Angeles at some point.  but once again the question is... how did he come to live in LA in the sideways?  this one isn't that big of a deal to me compared to some of the other character's locations, since it doesn't affect other characters.  Rose and Bernard met in NYC.  its just like... why force another connection?  idk.  i'm taking this too strictly.

i always felt like Desmond's disappearance was a red herring.  something to distract us.  i'm probably wrong, but its not anything i've been thinking too seriously about.  and yeah, i bet that he was sort of subconsciously knowing some things, like Aaron's gender.  its fun now to go back to LA X and realize that Jack recognizing Desmond foreshadowed this reveal that they're all having flashes of the original timeline.

as far as Charles and Eloise being the only ones we've seen that were on the Island during the Incident, unless Pierre is still alive, then yes, so far.  but who knows?

i just REALLY hope they give SOME explanation as to how Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Jin, Sayid, Hurley, Miles, and Juliet's almost-dead body teleported 30 years into the future.  even if someone just says "the Island course-corrected" i'll be happy.

when Charles said that Desmond was the only person to survive an electromagnetic event or whatever, i immediately thought of all of those people.  it wasn't the same as the Swan imploding, but it had similar effects.  i also thought of Eko and Locke, who were in the hatch when it went off... but quickly realized that they're dead.  

when you mentioned in your last post about the three times energy was released from the hatch, its a bit confusing.  the electromagnetic anomaly didn't detonate during the Incident, and its becoming increasingly more confusing as to whether or not the same Incident occurred in both timelines.  i always assumed that it did, but now i dont know.  and if you count the second time as a time the energy was released (crashing 815), there were at least two other times when the Survivors, during their time occupying the Swan, accidently or purposefully let the clock go past 108 minutes, BEFORE the 2nd season finale, and those would have to count too.  

the only time that i think the Swan ever really released that massive pocket of energy was when the Swan imploded, which seemed to unstick Desmond in time for the first... time.  thats when his 2004 consciousness went back to the 90's to when he broke up with Penny, and he was seemingly able to do what Eloise could do in that episode: see when people were going to die.  thats when we first heard about the universe being able to course-correct.  (and i think thats what the sideways Eloise is able to see.  damon had referred to her as a "temporal policeman" during that time).

then in "The Constant" when he got unstuck in time, his 1990's consciousness went forward to 2004.  the end of that episode reminded me of this one.  when their consciousnesses sort of got split again.  the 1990's Desmond is walking away from Penny's house and sort of smiling.  the question was, did he know that he had succeeded in the future?  was he aware that he had just made that phone call on the freighter in 2004?  how much else of the future was he aware of?  did he end up knowingly getting himself into the sailing race to get to the Island so he could make the call?  in last night's episode, it was sort of the opposite.  it seemed that both sideways 2004 Desmond and current 2007 Desmond knew of each other.  they might share a consciousness, i dont know.  but i am excited.

RocketSauce2112

BigBrainBrad

RocketSauce2112

InTheFlesh83

when Charles said that Desmond was the only person to survive an electromagnetic event or whatever, i immediately thought of all of those people.  it wasn't the same as the Swan imploding, but it had similar effects.  i also thought of Eko and Locke, who were in the hatch when it went off... but quickly realized that they're dead.  

when you mentioned in your last post about the three times energy was released from the hatch, its a bit confusing.  the electromagnetic anomaly didn't detonate during the Incident, and its becoming increasingly more confusing as to whether or not the same Incident occurred in both timelines.  i always assumed that it did, but now i dont know.  and if you count the second time as a time the energy was released (crashing 815), there were at least two other times when the Survivors, during their time occupying the Swan, accidently or purposefully let the clock go past 108 minutes, BEFORE the 2nd season finale, and those would have to count too.  

the only time that i think the Swan ever really released that massive pocket of energy was when the Swan imploded, which seemed to unstick Desmond in time for the first... time.  thats when his 2004 consciousness went back to the 90's to when he broke up with Penny, and he was seemingly able to do what Eloise could do in that episode: see when people were going to die.  thats when we first heard about the universe being able to course-correct.  (and i think thats what the sideways Eloise is able to see.  damon had referred to her as a "temporal policeman" during that time).

then in "The Constant" when he got unstuck in time, his 1990's consciousness went forward to 2004.  the end of that episode reminded me of this one.  when their consciousnesses sort of got split again.  the 1990's Desmond is walking away from Penny's house and sort of smiling.  the question was, did he know that he had succeeded in the future?  was he aware that he had just made that phone call on the freighter in 2004?  how much else of the future was he aware of?  did he end up knowingly getting himself into the sailing race to get to the Island so he could make the call?  in last night's episode, it was sort of the opposite.  it seemed that both sideways 2004 Desmond and current 2007 Desmond knew of each other.  they might share a consciousness, i dont know.  but i am excited.

Ok, I'll try and explain it better when I mentioned the 3 releases of energy...

In the Swan hatch orientation video Pierre Chang (He had other aliases as well, ie Halliwax) mentioned "the Incident" but not all the footage was there until they found the missing piece later on in that other hatch. The date in the credits is listed as 1980. 

Now, we can only guess that the "incident" mentioned by Chang in the video is the same incident we see with Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Hurley, Juliette, and Chang. The only difference that we can guess about is the inclusion of "jughead" at that point. 

1977-No Losties-Incident
1977-w/ Losties-Incident + Jughead

Is this the exact same incident that happened whether they were there or not?

Has it ever been mentioned in detail what really happened during the initial incident referred to by Chang without the Losties?

Jump to 2004. The electromagnet in the hatch had enough force to pull flight 815 out of the air and caused it to crash on the island. The force was strong enough for "The Others" to feel it at the Barracks. 

The other instances you mentioned about the Losties letting the clock go, as far as we know, nothing significant happened. 

Let's just say the moment Desmond turned the fail safe key, and everyone experienced a flash, the hatch imploded, and Desmond ends up naked and being able to see into the future. 
We still don't know what other affects that had aside from what we see with Desmond. 


As if we aren't messed up enough... 

While Desmond is on his way to the freighter and they are in what seems like a storm, Desmond starts time traveling sub consciously. What caused that? The storm? I have no idea. I remember Daniel saying that no matter what follow his bearing even if it seems wrong. 

Zoe is questioning Jin about his signature on maps that had locations of pockets of energy on the island. If Widmore has his little electromagnetic machine with him, what does the energy pocket locations have to do with anything? Did he land on Hydra island to be able to use the machine without it interfering with the energy pockets on the island? 

All this confusion and craziness involving Widmore, Eloise, Daniel, Desmond etc. seems like it's something bigger than what's going on between Jacob and MIB.

If Ecko and Locke were in the hatch when it went off and they are dead... then why would Ben have to strangle Locke later?? I thought Smokie killed Ecko? 

It's all just a big cluster fuck and I hope I actually get some part(s) of it right after the show ends. 

^ i Think the answer to some of these illogical instances of connections between Losties may be that all the Losties are somehow drawn to each other and that's why they have so much interaction. like when Desmond was drawn to Claire somehow at the airport..
Since it has been somewhat revealed that the Losties of the flash-sideways have seen glimpses of their "real life" (Charlie, Desmond and Faraday) this is why they are subconciously compelled to interact with each other?

I don't have any solid theories or anything, but I just want to say that this was by far my favorite episode of the season so far.  I have a feeling that it's only going to get better from here on out.

Random Child: New album, "Isolation" out now! http://randomchild.bandcamp.com/

BigBrainBrad

RocketSauce2112

BigBrainBrad

RocketSauce2112

InTheFlesh83

when Charles said that Desmond was the only person to survive an electromagnetic event or whatever, i immediately thought of all of those people.  it wasn't the same as the Swan imploding, but it had similar effects.  i also thought of Eko and Locke, who were in the hatch when it went off... but quickly realized that they're dead.  

when you mentioned in your last post about the three times energy was released from the hatch, its a bit confusing.  the electromagnetic anomaly didn't detonate during the Incident, and its becoming increasingly more confusing as to whether or not the same Incident occurred in both timelines.  i always assumed that it did, but now i dont know.  and if you count the second time as a time the energy was released (crashing 815), there were at least two other times when the Survivors, during their time occupying the Swan, accidently or purposefully let the clock go past 108 minutes, BEFORE the 2nd season finale, and those would have to count too.  

the only time that i think the Swan ever really released that massive pocket of energy was when the Swan imploded, which seemed to unstick Desmond in time for the first... time.  thats when his 2004 consciousness went back to the 90's to when he broke up with Penny, and he was seemingly able to do what Eloise could do in that episode: see when people were going to die.  thats when we first heard about the universe being able to course-correct.  (and i think thats what the sideways Eloise is able to see.  damon had referred to her as a "temporal policeman" during that time).

then in "The Constant" when he got unstuck in time, his 1990's consciousness went forward to 2004.  the end of that episode reminded me of this one.  when their consciousnesses sort of got split again.  the 1990's Desmond is walking away from Penny's house and sort of smiling.  the question was, did he know that he had succeeded in the future?  was he aware that he had just made that phone call on the freighter in 2004?  how much else of the future was he aware of?  did he end up knowingly getting himself into the sailing race to get to the Island so he could make the call?  in last night's episode, it was sort of the opposite.  it seemed that both sideways 2004 Desmond and current 2007 Desmond knew of each other.  they might share a consciousness, i dont know.  but i am excited.

Ok, I'll try and explain it better when I mentioned the 3 releases of energy...

In the Swan hatch orientation video Pierre Chang (He had other aliases as well, ie Halliwax) mentioned "the Incident" but not all the footage was there until they found the missing piece later on in that other hatch. The date in the credits is listed as 1980. 

Now, we can only guess that the "incident" mentioned by Chang in the video is the same incident we see with Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Miles, Hurley, Juliette, and Chang. The only difference that we can guess about is the inclusion of "jughead" at that point. 

1977-No Losties-Incident
1977-w/ Losties-Incident + Jughead

Is this the exact same incident that happened whether they were there or not?

Has it ever been mentioned in detail what really happened during the initial incident referred to by Chang without the Losties?

Jump to 2004. The electromagnet in the hatch had enough force to pull flight 815 out of the air and caused it to crash on the island. The force was strong enough for "The Others" to feel it at the Barracks. 

The other instances you mentioned about the Losties letting the clock go, as far as we know, nothing significant happened. 

Let's just say the moment Desmond turned the fail safe key, and everyone experienced a flash, the hatch imploded, and Desmond ends up naked and being able to see into the future. 
We still don't know what other affects that had aside from what we see with Desmond. 


As if we aren't messed up enough... 

While Desmond is on his way to the freighter and they are in what seems like a storm, Desmond starts time traveling sub consciously. What caused that? The storm? I have no idea. I remember Daniel saying that no matter what follow his bearing even if it seems wrong. 

Zoe is questioning Jin about his signature on maps that had locations of pockets of energy on the island. If Widmore has his little electromagnetic machine with him, what does the energy pocket locations have to do with anything? Did he land on Hydra island to be able to use the machine without it interfering with the energy pockets on the island? 

All this confusion and craziness involving Widmore, Eloise, Daniel, Desmond etc. seems like it's something bigger than what's going on between Jacob and MIB.

If Ecko and Locke were in the hatch when it went off and they are dead... then why would Ben have to strangle Locke later?? I thought Smokie killed Ecko? 

It's all just a big cluster fuck and I hope I actually get some part(s) of it right after the show ends. 

i'm not saying they died from the hatch implosion.  i'm saying the SURVIVED that, and happen to be dead NOW.  i was just pointing out that the three people inside the hatch when it imploded all survived (Widmore said that Desmond was the only person to do it), but he couldn't use Locke or Eko since they're dead now.  Eko was found in the polar bear cave, and Locke woke up in the jungle with a bad headache and no voice.  we also know that it disabled some of the Other's communications.  all through season 3 they keep talking about "ever since the sky turned purple" blah blah blah.  if my memory serves, it messed up the Looking Glass and the Flame.

i doubt that i would call any of this "bigger" than Jacob and Smokey.  this is all their fault i'm thinking.

the way it was explained in "The Constant" was that if Frank didn't stay on course, and if someone who was going to/from the Island on the incorrect course had prolonged exposure to radiation or electromagnetism, there might be "side effects".  thats apparently what happened to Desmond, Minkowski, and the guy that was in the Zodiac raft with Minkowski who was already in a body bag by the time we even meet him.  i think the storm itself was just evidence of the time displacement between the Island and the surrounding area (and the rest of the world).  this is also how people are explaining the fact that, if we assume the Black Rock was the ship we saw in the season 5 finale and it was daylight at the time, how it was suddenly nighttime and stormy when it actually crashed, probably no more than 30 minutes later.

to be honest, i never thought of Jughead as being a separate thing from the actual Incident.  i had always thought of Jughead being a part of the incident; something that had always happened in both timelines.  but now that you mention it, its really really clear now.  even in the recap episode at the beginning of the season, they said something about Juliet detonating Jughead was her free will taking over destiny.  i think that you're right.  the original timeline probably has Radzinsky drilling too far and hitting the pocket, handicapping Dr. Chang's hand, etc.  the new timeline has Jughead detonating and fucking shit up.  we just don't know how yet.  (and to answer your question that may or may not have been rhetorical, no, it hasn't ever been explained in detail what the original incident was).

i still dont really think that i would count that as "releasing" the energy of that zone.  i think the only time it was released was when Desmond turned the fail-safe key.  i assumed that the reason the Others felt it at the barracks was because it was pulling a gigantic plane out of the sky.  just the forces of magnetism coming from the hatch and the gravity and all that would probably cause what it did.  but if the energy had been properly released, i feel like it wouldn't have been able to be stopped.

angelusredgrove


^ i Think the answer to some of these illogical instances of connections between Losties may be that all the Losties are somehow drawn to each other and that's why they have so much interaction. like when Desmond was drawn to Claire somehow at the airport..
Since it has been somewhat revealed that the Losties of the flash-sideways have seen glimpses of their "real life" (Charlie, Desmond and Faraday) this is why they are subconciously compelled to interact with each other?

thats the only way i've been able to sleep at night.  when we first saw these flash sideways, my big theory was that it was going to be used to show two things:
1. their lives would've been worse off without the interaction of Jacob and the Island
2. they're all connected and would've still met (the universe's way of course-correcting or whatever).


the first one seems to be different slightly now, but you're right.  it just hard for me to look at it like that, you know?  if they're all connected in new ways after AND before the 815 flight, how did they all come to be on the 815 flight?  i know they CAN solve this question, but they probably wont with only like 300 minutes left in the series (43 minutes x 7 episodes... wow.  only 5 hours left).

Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Desmond
Amazing episode...my brain hurts

  Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is the best.

In reference to why and how the island is seen underwater in LA X.

This is just some more random brain farts before the final release in about 6 weeks or so...

The Island, if it were like every other island on earth would be stationary. Completely connected to the earths crust. 

The Island, as we learned from Eloise Hawking, is not stationary and continues to randomly move around the ocean, only to be found according to its magnetic field, using the pendulum at the Lamp Post. 

*And someone please explain to me what the original purpose of the Lamp Post was. I can only guess that it was built for a purpose and some Dharma folk noticed a pattern or something which led them to discovering an island?

So if the Island isn't stationary then it moves on a specific course over the ocean or does it move at random on a non specific course? 

If Hydra Island is not connected to the main Island by land, then why does it move along with the main Island?

Can the Island be viewed as an object floating on the ocean, much like a ship, or a cork? Ships can sink if they are damaged and will not return to the surface without help. A cork can sink but only if something is causing it to sink. If what's causing the cork to sink ceases then the cork will once again rise to the surface. 

If the island is like a cork then it being underwater is plausible but from which direction would the force be coming from. When Ben made the island disappear it submerged...for how long? 3 years? 

After thinking about this and about Eloise being a temporal police person. She was the one that told the losties to get on flight 316 etc. etc. etc. 

For some reason I felt like that was part of MIB's plan in getting off the island. Manipulating Ben and possibly manipulating Eloise are just parts of the ever confusing web of MIB's plan to escape. Could be why Widmore and MIB are enemies. Widmore, could also have been manipulated, or figured out that MIB had manipulated others which led to his exile from the island. 

The Circle created by Widmore
                                  Eloise
                                   Daniel
                                     Penny
                                       Desmond is really I think a key to help unravel the puzzle, or at least a big missing piece.

And just one more thing...

The flashbacks revealing Jacob touching the Losties, was that along with the current original timeline, or was it after a specific event? Jacob touches Hurley when he gives him the guitar case in 2007 before Hurley would board 316?

Jacob touched Jack way back before 2004, as well as Kate, Sawyer, Jin, and Sun. If it was after the original timeline, as in Jacob had to go back in time, Would that be a way of course correcting or his way of trying to stifle MIB's plan?

BigBrainBrad

The flashbacks revealing Jacob touching the Losties, was that along with the current original timeline, or was it after a specific event? Jacob touches Hurley when he gives him the guitar case in 2007 before Hurley would board 316?

Jacob touched Jack way back before 2004, as well as Kate, Sawyer, Jin, and Sun. If it was after the original timeline, as in Jacob had to go back in time, Would that be a way of course correcting or his way of trying to stifle MIB's plan?

The timeline in which the plane does NOT crash shows that Sun and Jin are NOT married and therefore could not have been "blessed" at their wedding by Jacob.


I tend to believe that the 2 timelines represent "without influence from the island" and "with influence from the island". (and that the losties have to determine at some point which one is the "right" one... I get the feeling after last night's episode that Desmond is going to attempt to help them with this decision)

(but likely, someone is going to prove me wrong because I suck at figuring this show out. Yet I still watch it faithfully and LOVE it!)

enchantgy




I tend to believe that the 2 timelines represent "without influence from the island" and "with influence from the island".

I used to think that as well, but this week's episode changed that for me.  Eloise told Desmond that he obtained the thing that he wanted more than anything.  That also seems to be a theme with many of the other losties.  The other theme being given the opportunity to remake choices they've made in the past(in the original timeline), Ben being a prime example of that theme.  Given that Desmond's breaking from his normal life to look for Penny is a "violation", it seems clear to me that something is still manipulating things in this timeline. 

My current theory is that, while in the original timeline the losties are brought to the island to participate, in the new timeline they are being distracted so that they can't interfere.  If I'd say that since the method is different, the person pulling the strings is different too.  Either the MiB himself, freed from the island by the incident, or whatever force that's at work whenever anyone claims that "the island" did something.  The latter seems unlikely, given that the island is at the bottom of the Pacific, but who knows what actually happened when the bomb went off?  Just because the island sank doesn't mean that it no longer has influence in the world.

If you knew the number
Of the steps you'd ever take
Bitter, I wonder
Would you run or cease to walk?

This makes Juliet death scene that much more vital. Just before Juliet died, she went a bit 'weird'. As Charlie and Desmond were 'drowning', they saw each others actual lives, rather than the alt world.

Is it probable that there's a connection there? ;)

I shall duck behind the couch.

Saintsmaen


This makes Juliet death scene that much more vital. Just before Juliet died, she went a bit 'weird'. As Charlie and Desmond were 'drowning', they saw each others actual lives, rather than the alt world.

Is it probable that there's a connection there? ;)

I don't think that Desmond was 'drowning'. Charlie's "near death" experiences (choking on the plane and drowning) may have given him a way to "see the other side" however.

I wonder what's going to happen to Sun.  Considering she was shot... Maybe she will "see" as well...

Are there others that have or are close to "near death" experiences?  (I doubt that Sawyer will do something to Kate)

enchantgy

Saintsmaen


This makes Juliet death scene that much more vital. Just before Juliet died, she went a bit 'weird'. As Charlie and Desmond were 'drowning', they saw each others actual lives, rather than the alt world.

Is it probable that there's a connection there? ;)

I don't think that Desmond was 'drowning'. Charlie's "near death" experiences (choking on the plane and drowning) may have given him a way to "see the other side" however.

I wonder what's going to happen to Sun.  Considering she was shot... Maybe she will "see" as well...

Are there others that have or are close to "near death" experiences?  (I doubt that Sawyer will do something to Kate)

That's very interesting. Sun did say she had something to tell Jin, just about the time Keamy knocked on the door. We all figured at that point, since it was the alternate 2004, that Sun and Jin's plumbing issues were resolved and she was probably pregnant. 

After Sun was shot and when Jin picked her up, she said, "I'm pregnant"... was she possibly in the right state to see that, as mentioned above, a near death experience? 

Has/Did anyone mentioned the reaction of both Kate and Jack as Kate was leaving the Airport with Claire? Could be just me but Jack seemed to look at her funny. Perhaps a simple explanation would be Jack thinking to himself "that's the bitch that stole my damn pen". Kate could be saying, "hey, thats the fucker who's pen I stole". 
Someone did mention something about the way Jack looked at Sayid in the hospital... This is possibly all meaningless but, we'll see if has any impact in the future.

I wish there were NO COMMERCIALS for the remaining episodes, then we would at least get almost a full hour. It's going to be amazing to witness how they bring this all together. 

Just got the episode in the UK - for me, one of, if not THE best LOST episode I have ever seen. That was fucking brilliant! It's just prompted so many more questions. The scene with Daniel and Desmond on the bench when Dan shows Des the drawing gave me goosebumps. 

Also, I'm convinced that Eloise knew Desmond. Her expression when she 'met' him was like "holy shit it's you." And remember a few seasons ago, there was the episode (sorry can't recall the name) when Eloise was in the jewelry shop and she told Des he couldn't buy a ring or something?

I have a feeling Eloise has a conscious foot in each 'reality'. And she has done for a while.

Such an amazing episode, I love this show. 




Oh, and what about the massive douchebag at the start that flipped the switch? What an ass.  

And Holy shit. I KNEW I recognised the limo driver!!!


http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/George_Minkowski



Awesome :) I think that might have some significance! 

This theory may have been put out before, but I don't have time to search all the pages for it.

When it comes to which Kwon is the candidate I believe the answer has to be Jin.  My reason?  Child birth.  Before the candidates landed on the island none of them, to our knowlege, had any children.  Claire was pregnant but, as revealed in "The Package" her name was not on the wall, thus meaning she was not a candidate. 
We know that before the Kwons got to the island they were unable to have children due to Jin’s impotency.  Sun was capable. Jin was not.  Once they got to the island they were able to have a child.  I believe that this has to do with the candidacy.  My thought is that by receiving Jacob’s gift one is incapable of conceiving a child off of the island, and one is incapable of bearing children on the island without his gift.  Since none of the other candidates had any children off the island, perhaps they were incapable of it.  This would mean that Jin has to be the candidate as he was incapable of bearing a child while his wife could. 
Now, you may be thinking about how the Kwons don’t have a child in the side-verse either.  This is true.  Jack, however, does have a child that he did not have in the original-verse.  So, as he has a child without Jacob’s gift but not with, the theory still stands.
What do you guys think?

omegon


This theory may have been put out before, but I don't have time to search all the pages for it.

When it comes to which Kwon is the candidate I believe the answer has to be Jin.  My reason?  Child birth.  Before the candidates landed on the island none of them, to our knowlege, had any children.  Claire was pregnant but, as revealed in "The Package" her name was not on the wall, thus meaning she was not a candidate. 
We know that before the Kwons got to the island they were unable to have children due to Jin’s impotency.  Sun was capable. Jin was not.  Once they got to the island they were able to have a child.  I believe that this has to do with the candidacy.  My thought is that by receiving Jacob’s gift one is incapable of conceiving a child off of the island, and one is incapable of bearing children on the island without his gift.  Since none of the other candidates had any children off the island, perhaps they were incapable of it.  This would mean that Jin has to be the candidate as he was incapable of bearing a child while his wife could. 
Now, you may be thinking about how the Kwons don’t have a child in the side-verse either.  This is true.  Jack, however, does have a child that he did not have in the original-verse.  So, as he has a child without Jacob’s gift but not with, the theory still stands.
What do you guys think?

Sawyer had a daughter off island.

and smokey could've been lying about claire not being on the wall.  some of the names and numbers between the wall and the lighthouse are different, and damon and carlton said in a podcast that that may or may not mean that (too many thats!) jacob might have made the wall for smokey to find to trick him, and the names on the lighthouse are the ones that are correct.  the reason this is freakily significant is because kates name isn't crossed out on the lighthouse (its #51, and no i could not find any simple addition, subtraction, multiplication or division ways to connect it to the other numbers, which i think is kinda cool).  they suggested that this might be a way for smokey to think he's done away with all the candidates, and then kate is still alive.

claire's surname was on the wall, albeit crossed out.  so that at least has smokey omitting part of the truth.  he said she wasn't on the wall at all, not that she's on the wall and crossed out.  

and sun (who's name isn't kwon yet) is pregnant in the sideways timeline.  whether or not the child is a glimpse of the original timeline (a la desmond and charlie's near-death experiences as stated above by enchantgy), a child by jae lee, or a child by jin (since i assume he's still infertile based on the fact that he was born in 1974), we dont know.

but you may be onto SOMETHING with the fertility issues.  that's always been a part of the show.  it may be backwards though.  what if, only FERTILE people can be candidates?  maybe something about jacob caused jacob's people (the others) to be infertile?  that would mean it'd be sun thats the candidate.

i do hope they mention something about the fertility problems soon :-(

What was with the whole thing with Desmond not wearing a wedding ring? I thought it was established (through the use of screen caps) that he in actual fact, WAS wearing a ring on the plane when he spoke to Jack? I doubt the writers would make a cock up like that.

He'll end up having a wife in the alternative universe, and it will be a character from a previous season that we have all forgotten about. Like Libby. That would be cool. 

spikelineus


And Holy shit. I KNEW I recognised the limo driver!!!


http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/George_Minkowski



Awesome :) I think that might have some significance! 

Cool, I knew too he was there in some other episode but couldnt place where.

"I'm in a glass case of emotion."

spikelineus


What was with the whole thing with Desmond not wearing a wedding ring? I thought it was established (through the use of screen caps) that he in actual fact, WAS wearing a ring on the plane when he spoke to Jack? I doubt the writers would make a cock up like that.

He'll end up having a wife in the alternative universe, and it will be a character from a previous season that we have all forgotten about. Like Libby. That would be cool. 

how could he end up having a wife on the plane and then be single a few hours later in the oceanic airport lobby?

i think the only rational explanation for desmond having a wedding ring would be that the desmond on the plane was original timeline desmond or something.  but i doubt it.  its probably just a prop error.  i'd go so far as to say its the actor's ring and he just forgot to take it off.

RocketSauce2112

spikelineus


What was with the whole thing with Desmond not wearing a wedding ring? I thought it was established (through the use of screen caps) that he in actual fact, WAS wearing a ring on the plane when he spoke to Jack? I doubt the writers would make a cock up like that.

He'll end up having a wife in the alternative universe, and it will be a character from a previous season that we have all forgotten about. Like Libby. That would be cool. 

how could he end up having a wife on the plane and then be single a few hours later in the oceanic airport lobby?

i think the only rational explanation for desmond having a wedding ring would be that the desmond on the plane was original timeline desmond or something.  but i doubt it.  its probably just a prop error.  i'd go so far as to say its the actor's ring and he just forgot to take it off.

Yeah I thought maybe he was switching timelines - but who knows! I dunno, I just don't think it would have been a prop error. I hope not anyway. I quite like my 'secret wife' theory haha. 

spikelineus

RocketSauce2112

spikelineus


What was with the whole thing with Desmond not wearing a wedding ring? I thought it was established (through the use of screen caps) that he in actual fact, WAS wearing a ring on the plane when he spoke to Jack? I doubt the writers would make a cock up like that.

He'll end up having a wife in the alternative universe, and it will be a character from a previous season that we have all forgotten about. Like Libby. That would be cool. 

how could he end up having a wife on the plane and then be single a few hours later in the oceanic airport lobby?

i think the only rational explanation for desmond having a wedding ring would be that the desmond on the plane was original timeline desmond or something.  but i doubt it.  its probably just a prop error.  i'd go so far as to say its the actor's ring and he just forgot to take it off.

Yeah I thought maybe he was switching timelines - but who knows! I dunno, I just don't think it would have been a prop error. I hope not anyway. I quite like my 'secret wife' theory haha. 

if its a secret wife, then i dont like the fact that he's cheating on said wife by hooking up with penny.