Survivor Heroes vs. Villains

yantzgh


Worst ending ever.

No, season 19 was the worst season ever. The woman who beat out Russell did less than nothing that season.

Parvati should have won. I really thought when Sandra said that her strategy was trying to get Russell out, the jury members would think "Well, she didn't do it, so she clearly lost the strategic game, plus she was terrible in challenges."

But, as much of a pain in the ass she was to Russell, she really didn't have any enemies on the jury. Plus, she did have a strategy that worked -- when she realized the heroes were too stupid to listen to her about Russell, she stuck with the villains, who had other people to vote off than her. Had Rupert, Colby, Candice and Amanda listen to her, the heroes would have been the final three. But she was smart enough when it came down to tribal council to vote the best way for her.

I think Russell would have won the game if he would have been able to watch Season 19 to the end before going on to Season 20. He went into Season 20 thinking he easily won Season 19 (which he should have) so he thought the stuff he did there would work in Season 20. Had he known he didn't win Season 19, I'm sure he would have played a different social game, or at least would have realized he couldn't alienate the entire jury.

The Killing Hand

 I think Russell would have won the game if he would have been able to watch Season 19 to the end before going on to Season 20. He went into Season 20 thinking he easily won Season 19 (which he should have) so he thought the stuff he did there would work in Season 20. Had he known he didn't win Season 19, I'm sure he would have played a different social game, or at least would have realized he couldn't alienate the entire jury.

I thought that for a while, too, but I don't anymore after last night.  Russell's attitude and defiance at the reunion showed that he still doesn't get it.  His "this is how I play the game" mantra just shows that he is incapable of acting and playing any other way.  I agree with him when he said that he wouldn't get to the end if he played any other way, but playing that way pisses everyone off and ensures that he has no chance of actually winning.

It always comes down to who the jury dislikes the least. IMO Parvati should have won this. As much as I enjoyed Russel, it just surprised me at how clueless he actually is. As it was said, his strategy will get him to the end, but he will never win. You have to screw people over in this game, but you can't rub their nose in it.

The Killing Hand


I think Russell would have won the game if he would have been able to watch Season 19 to the end before going on to Season 20. He went into Season 20 thinking he easily won Season 19 (which he should have) so he thought the stuff he did there would work in Season 20. Had he known he didn't win Season 19, I'm sure he would have played a different social game, or at least would have realized he couldn't alienate the entire jury.

I highly doubt it. Especially after seeing the man and the way his true personality is on LIVE television without the CBS editing. In the show he was portrayed as some crafty manipulator who would do whatever it took to get to the end. Calm and collected apparently. The live show exposed him as your everyday idiot who with even Boston Rob and Jeff flatly explaining to him why he will never win the show, he still cannot understand it. And he never will win the show because he is a moron. I hope that he is never on the show again because two seasons of him is enough but unfortunately we all know CBS will try and make as much money off him as possible
   I think the only reason he plays the way he does is that he is insecure and in all actuality has no plan other than creating turmoil to keep everyon scared. Just take a chance and re-read all of Barry's posts and you should get a good understanding of the man.   Him watching last season before playing this one would have done nothing but fueled his insane little fire even more. The man is a ego mainiacal idiot plain and simple. Good Riddens.
 
I didn't mind Sandra winning until the reunion show exposed her ego as well. Sure she may have been doing it to spurn Russel, but if she honestly believes she is that great of a player then she may be as delusional as Russel. Enjoy your 2 Million dollars in charity funds. The only thing that makes me happy about that is that it is going to a family who's father/husband is a Marine serving our country. And I am secure enough in my manhood to state that her husband looked like a effin' stud and would not want to tango with that dude!

I forgot about last season...The difference is that the winner of season 19 was at least decent to look at.  I'd rather see a good looking do-nothing girl win over a not good looking do-nothing girl.

I don't think there is any possible way Russell could win at Survivor.  He's just way too abrasive and arrogant, and to watch him in that reunion show made it clear to me that my instincts about him were spot on.   

For the people that are saying they'll never watch the show again because of who won it: 

Come on, seriously?   

gmillerdrake

The Killing Hand


I think Russell would have won the game if he would have been able to watch Season 19 to the end before going on to Season 20. He went into Season 20 thinking he easily won Season 19 (which he should have) so he thought the stuff he did there would work in Season 20. Had he known he didn't win Season 19, I'm sure he would have played a different social game, or at least would have realized he couldn't alienate the entire jury.

*snip*
 
I didn't mind Sandra winning until the reunion show exposed her ego as well.

I think that was PURELY to annoy Russell.  Even Probst indicated a few times during the reunion show that Russell was very difficult to deal with and that EVERYONE was sick of listening to him.  I don't care either way about Sandra....nor did I care either way about Parv......wouldn't have mattered one bit to me which one of them won, as long as Russell did not win....but I really think she was just giving Russell some of his own bullshit back in his face.  And I actually quite enjoyed watching him squirm like the little weasel he is.

Russell looked like he had a few too many "rails" before the show last night.

I think Sandra is a decent player and an entertaining character.  I would've voted for Parvati, but I'm pretty happy with the season overall.

Anyone else laugh out loud when Sandra claimed ther her sucking in challenges was her "strategy"? Woman, please. You suck, plain and simple.

Sandra did say she was a fan before she ever played the game and that she learned from watching other peoples mistakes. I would probably play the same way. There are patterns that will get you voted out.

I don't care for her personality, but she does know how to play.

I think reading The 3 Bears could help. You don't want to be too good and you don't want to be too bad at challenges. You want to be just right.

I am curious as to what Colby was elluding to when he said that they were 'quaranteened' to the camps and could not really go off into the jugle or dive in the sea. Do you think that was for thier protection against natural wildlife like venomous snakes or baracuda or something along those lines or was it a political/governmental issue. Like they only had so much area they could 'work' in?
   I think that did shed some light as to why Colby was the way he was. I would be bummed out as well if I had for 2 seasons been able to explore and what not and have a bit of fun whilst playing and then suddenly be trapped with a group of people who really didn't like you in the first place.

RG7CSTodd


Anyone else laugh out loud when Sandra claimed ther her sucking in challenges was her "strategy"? Woman, please. You suck, plain and simple.

And yet, she's won.

Twice.

I'd like to suck that much too.

Just finished watching the finale and am about 20 minutes in to the reunion show.  I would say Sandra's the lamest winner in a while, but the memory of "Do Nothing" Natalie winning last season is still fresh in my brain. 

When the jury was questioning the final 3, i knew that Russ would be getting few-to-no votes.  Sucks...everyone on the jury is butt-hurt crybaby.  Russ does come across as arrogant, but no worse than Rupert (self-righteous), Parvati (stuck-up), or Sandra (USELESS and cocky for no reason).  For all of Russ' social flaws, i still think he's one of the best Survivor players ever.  Sure as hell a lot more deserving of winning than lame ass Natalie and Sandra.  Way to reward people for doing jack shit. 

Oh, and Parvati's last name is Shallow?  Priceless.

Hwangman


Sucks...everyone on the jury is butt-hurt crybaby.

I strongly disagree.  Russell rubbed everyone the wrong way.  How can you possibly know from a heavily edited television show what it was like to actually live with that asshole for almost 40 days?  I didn't see any "cry-babies" on the jury.  I saw some pissed off people who didn't want to give the money to an ego-maniacal douchenozzle. 

And last time I checked, that's perhaps the most important component of the game - finding a way to manipulate yourself into position at the end, without pissing people off so much that they hate your ever-loving guts.

And from where I sit, and from where TWO juries IN A ROW sit, Russell FAILED massively at the game of Survivor.

He's the best at something, for sure, but it's not the game of Survivor.

I completely disagree w/your assessment of good 'ol Russ, but fair enough.  There's never going to be a consensus on this anyway, judging from the varying comments in this thread.  At least Russ got the $100k.

Everyone's thoughts on next season?

From the previews, I thought they were coming up with Urban Survivor. I swear that shot of the sunset against the palm trees screamed LA to me. Nicaragua could be fun... I like the more diverse settings.

Established Fact learned from this thread and season of Survivor:
           KirksNoseHair does not/will not ever, like Russell for various reasons in which he  
           has clearly expressed multiple times. Those of you out there who do like Russel must
           learn to live with that fact. Barry, I would have loved to been in the room  
          with you and witnessed the elation and satisfaction you most undoubtedly had
          while watching the reunion show. I thought of that quite a bit actually. 
Me personally, I hope that CBS takes a break from Russ for at least two seasons, hopefully more. I'm certain he will be back in the next installment of their allstar/hero/villian addition, or whatever connotation they give it. 
  concerning this next season, I wonder what it was they were referring to when they said something would be different. A season with no idols? Another exile island? Immunity Idol clues that actually force one to think and reason to earn them?
  I have actually been thinking of perhaps sending a tryout video in just to see what would happen. You never know, can't make it unless you try.

Until there's another season with Hatch in it, I don't think anyone has the right to call themselves the best survivor ever except for him.
Mainly because I think Hatch has been the only person to be voted out FIRST from his tribe because... he's *that* good.

I'd love to see another season with Greg from Borneo in it, (see link to explain why http://www.averdata.net/~locbaseb/funny/49.htm ).

HomerJ

Jimz


Wow, Jimz called it.  (That's me.)  hehe.

Read the spoilers that were out there since the beginning of the season, eh?

OK I just Googled this... boy am I an idiot.  There was a spoiler all along I could have just checked on instead of sitting around trying to figure it out!!!  Do they leak this stuff every season?  That would sure explain why they stopped taking Vegas bets on the winner back around season 13 or so.  Damn, talk about killing the suspense.

Your wisdom intrigues me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter!

...

Looking back, I wasn't always right on target with my guesses... but I was close, and got it right toward the end.  Honestly, it is not hard when you know how the editing works.  Just like you can't have a punch line without a setup, you can't have a surprise twist until you set an expectation.  Same goes for Amazing Race, World Series of Poker, etc.  Unless they start editing the show more like a sporting event, any attentive viewer can put the pieces together.  But since I'm a lazy guy, I will probably just look up the spoiler every time from now on.

^Then why bother watching at all?

raisingfear101


^Then why bother watching at all?

I'd like to be entertained... heck, virtually every movie you see is formulaic, but it can still be entertaining seeing how they pull it off.

This whole spoiler thing has opened up a whole new world for me.  I have spent the last hour just reading these Survivor message boards and boggling my mind at the enormity of it all.  I cannot freaking believe some of this shit.

Wow... just wow.

It looks like this season was basically rigged for Parvati to win, but Sandra somehow did anyway.

Look:

http://community.realitytvworld.com/boards/DCForumID2/7450.shtml

UNDISPUTED
Erika Shay has worked in casting for a number of seasons, since her stint on TAR 5 when her team was the first eliminated. She and Parvati have been BFF onMySpace for quite awhile. Lots of photos of them together.

Parv's Myspace url is Hot Casting Chick.
http://www.myspace.com/hotcastingchick
Lynne Spillman is the casting director. She too is a friend of Parvati's.

Russell was recruited by Boo of Fiji. (Supposedly Boo and Russell are co-owners of a bar.) Hantz was originally interviewed for Pirate Master 2, but the show bombed. Boo is an old friend of Krista, she of Big Brother knife in the kitchen fame. Boo brought James to casting as well.
Erika Shay was a senior casting associate for Pirate Master and Big Brother as well. Her credits are on imdb.
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1671771/
WHAT'S BEEN ON THE GRAPEVINE
Back in August, there was a huge Survivor Reunion in Florida, just before the finalists were to fly out. Billy Garcia posted that Jeff Probst and Lynne Spillman were having a big fight because Spillman wanted her protogees on H vs V. Parvati being Lynne's main gal.
Many people questioned why Parvati ever got a slot on Micronesia. She was like the Danielle or Candice cast member that season, never accomplished anything of note in her season. Her casting connections are why.
Spillman has been big on recruits on the show. Jeff has wanted more "real" people and applicants.
There were supposedly a number of people who were told they were on or almost certainly on S20, who didn't get go. Ozzy is one of them. Gossip is that he was cut with his bags packed because he was thought to have it in for Parvati. He never made up with her after Micronesia, but James did. Danielle and Parvati are IRL friends, but in a UTR way such that no one discussed them as a dangerous pair.
Many people think Candice was put on Heroes -- mutineer Hero, right, she did her best to destroy Aitu by jumping -- to avoid the appearance that there was a big Parvati alliance on the initial tribe. Amanda, Cirie, Candice, James -- all allies if Parv just made it to merge.
Did any other castaway have casting on their side trying to give him/her a smooth ride with pre-prepared alliances and no major enemies? No.
It gets worse. Parvati flew out to Samoa while S19 was filming. She vacationed there with Erika Shay. There she was supposedly clued in to Russell's mode of play, which would include that he likes to find a female ally and take her to the end, acting as the perfect goat all the way. All Parvati had to do was become Natalie v. 2.
As for Russell, the only season he supposedly saw before filming was Micronesia. Coincidence or did someone in casting tell him which one to watch. He knew he wanted to ally with Parvati on S20. Also, he and casting knew before S19 was halfway filmed that he would be on S20.
Only problem for Parvati is that Russell got a tad psycho after all those days in the game, and she miscalculated and lost his trust, so that it wasn't a smooth sail.
There is other gossip that's been around a long time, and I repeat it only because people who hang out around the LA group repeat it pretty frequently. Take it for no more than gossip. That parv is Bi, like Natalie Bolton (who they tried to cast, who was an alternate for Courtney). And that so is Lynne or Erika, and there has been some casting couch behavior on Parvati's part from way back when, just not the traditional kind. This is one reason people call her skanky, not for being bi, but for allegedly sleeping with someone who works in casting, and getting Micronesia ... just allegations and not something I can say is true or false. What is true is there have been allegations along those lines since Micronesia.
Lastly, Amanda is giving interviews that a mysterious something about this season changed the way she felt about the game and she will never play it again.
Candice and Danielle were asked by RTVW what was up, and they said that they weren't going to be the ones to comment.
So it is not all internet gossamer. It's serious enough to where CBS ordered radio silence on it. And like I said, all the players at the Cocoa Beach party last season were talking about the Parv favoritism and the Probst-Spillman rift before anyone flew out to Samoa. It took someone like Billy who will never get asked to play again to spill it on the net. The others are afraid of getting cut from the guest lists.
Lastly, this season they had the cast staying in Samoa and interacting for days before filming started. They didn't separate them into Heroes and Villains, but they were free to start solidifying pre-game alliances.
Like Stephanie said pointedly at the reunion, there were "like three of us who don't hang out with these people." Steph, Tom, Colby were the three I imagine, the ones who don't go to all the Survivor parties. It's a big social club now.
Even if Russell had learned how to play nice, I don't think he could have won this season, because he wasn't in the club. Parv was supposed to win.


...[back to Jimz now]: You know, I always knew there was something filthy about Parvati, and it wasn't just her nethers.  This is really, really mindblowing to learn.  Wow.  I wonder if there are some *ahem* staff changes ahead...

wow cooooool!!

...OK, it appears I am a double idiot today.

I have been devouring more and more Survivor spoiler message boards after reading those posts above... and then I visited another board and started noticing that the web page looked awfully familiar.

I checked my email.  Yep, back in December one of my pals had sent me a link saying the new season was spoiled.  And I just clean blew it off after glancing at it at the time.  (It was a busy Christmas break... I didn't really keep my mind on TV shows.)

I just spent an entire season not knowing what was going to happen, when I had been told what was going to happen.

D'oh!

I hereby concede all wagers, official and unofficial, because it wouldn't be right to hold to them if I had advance notice of likely outcomes.  Even not remembering, having seen it even briefly is enough to be suggestive in one's subconscious mind.

I will also be officially not looking at a god damned THING for Survivor: Nicaragua.  I want to figure this one out from the ground up.

And I hope it ain't rigged.

In my gut I got the feeling there was rigging. I just assumed in favor of Russ. Looking at the info Jimz offered up, it all makes sense. Parv is a hooker. And someone needs to get fired.

I'm bummed.

Hwangman


I completely disagree w/your assessment of good 'ol Russ, but fair enough.  There's never going to be a consensus on this anyway, judging from the varying comments in this thread.  At least Russ got the $100k.

Everyone's thoughts on next season?

They gave BOTH runners up 100k?  I thought 1st place got the million, 2nd place got the 100k and 3rd place got zero?

kidgloves2


In my gut I got the feeling there was rigging.

I don't think there ever has or ever will be anything on TV that is truly "reality" TV.  ALL of these shows are rigged to some extent. 

KirksNoseHair

kidgloves2


In my gut I got the feeling there was rigging.

I don't think there ever has or ever will be anything on TV that is truly "reality" TV.  ALL of these shows are rigged to some extent. 

e of my pals had sent me a link saying the new season was spoiled.  And I just clean blew it off after glancing at it at the time.  (It was a busy Christmas break... I didn't really keep my mind on TV shows.) I just spent an entire season not knowing what was going to ha

This.  Kinda feel the same way about most big sporting events...

Every participant gets something.  1st place gets 1 million.  2nd place gets 100K.  3rd place gets something like 90K.  4th place gets something like 80K.  And so on and so forth downward.  The numbers might be a tad off, but everyone gets something for playing.

KirksNoseHair

Hwangman


I completely disagree w/your assessment of good 'ol Russ, but fair enough.  There's never going to be a consensus on this anyway, judging from the varying comments in this thread.  At least Russ got the $100k.

Everyone's thoughts on next season?

They gave BOTH runners up 100k?  I thought 1st place got the million, 2nd place got the 100k and 3rd place got zero?

If i'm not mistaken, Russ won the people's vote, which awarded $100k.  It was between him and Rupert, and while i was watching the reunion, i remember seeing it pop up that Russ had won it.

Jimz, that post was confusing...so, all of S20 was rigged?

I fell asleep after I saw that Russell wouldn't win

It's just obvious to me that Russell STILL doesn't get it. He is entirely clueless on the subject of interpersonal relationships and the fact that without other people we simply can't make it in this world.

I can't say that I am suprised at the speculation/information that Jimz has posted. It was fairly obvious throughout the season that the uniquity of the game and how it was being played was in question. The repeated 'suprising' outcomes and epic challenge battles were just a hair over the top, just enough to raise question.
  But it was entertaining and that is why I watch theses shows, to be entertained. If indeed the season was supposed to be rigged so Parvati could win it then that makes Sandra winning that much better. I like it when good old fashion karma comes back to bite people in the ass, those in front of the camera and behind it.

I still contend that the vast majority of these "reality" shows are heavily choreographed to achieve a desired outcome.....I don't think it quite rises to the level of "professional wrestling" but it's close.

KirksNoseHair


I still contend that the vast majority of these "reality" shows are heavily choreographed to achieve a desired outcome.....I don't think it quite rises to the level of "professional wrestling" but it's close.

This. It's silly to not watch a show because you think it's rigged. Even if they laid a blueprint for Parv to win, they didn't rig who people voted for throughout the season, so she could have been gone the first week. There's never been and never will be a true reality show. 

raisingfear101

KirksNoseHair


I still contend that the vast majority of these "reality" shows are heavily choreographed to achieve a desired outcome.....I don't think it quite rises to the level of "professional wrestling" but it's close.

This. It's silly to not watch a show because you think it's rigged. Even if they laid a blueprint for Parv to win, they didn't rig who people voted for throughout the season, so she could have been gone the first week. There's never been and never will be a true reality show. 

i don't know, I'm pretty sure 'The Hills' on MTV is 100% real.

Ahh, of course. How could I forget.

I just started to rewatch Survivor Borneo. I'm up to ep. 10. I haven't seen it since it originally aired. I barely remember most of it, it's been so long. 

I CAN'T BELIEVE HOW FAR THE SHOW HAS COME. It's crazy how awkward the first season feels! 

But I think that's as close to real as reality tv gets. I'm sure things are "steered", but not flat out written. They had no clue what they were doing. And Mr. Hatch isn't as good as I remember, he was playing with people that were clueless. 

I'm getting this weird nostalgic feeling watching it, like what the hell just happened to 10 years? It's a strange feeling like I want to be back there. Weird. 

gmillerdrake


I can't say that I am suprised at the speculation/information that Jimz has posted. It was fairly obvious throughout the season that the uniquity of the game and how it was being played was in question. The repeated 'suprising' outcomes and epic challenge battles were just a hair over the top, just enough to raise question.
  But it was entertaining and that is why I watch theses shows, to be entertained. If indeed the season was supposed to be rigged so Parvati could win it then that makes Sandra winning that much better. I like it when good old fashion karma comes back to bite people in the ass, those in front of the camera and behind it.

Well, to read the rumors it appears that Mark Burnett just hasn't done anything about it, Jeff Probst is entirely against it and wants them to cast all applicants and no supermodel recruits (disdain for "Los Angeles, CA" contestants was very consistent on the message boards I read) and the sleazebag chicks Erika and Lynne who were in cahoots with Parvati were largely responsible for the chicanery.

Survivor needs to NOT entertain such foolishness!  I hope Probst's side of the argument wins out and they can that casting bitch.  Maybe they already did, and she is the one who spoiled the season.  Probst knows as well as anyone: you get the best players when you let them come to YOU.  None of this apathetic beach model crap where they're just cliquing along with each other and aren't hungry in the slightest, but will win if it falls into their lap.

To answer KirksNoseHair,  HomerJ is correct, they all get paid and it's just a sliding scale.  They also apparently get paid to do postgame interviews and media appearances and they get extra $$$ to do the reunion show, plus per diem for everything and so forth.  All in all, nobody who participates in the game ends up with empty pockets... not even the first player voted out.  Seems like a decent arrangement.  Same thing with Amazing Race.

To answer Hwangman... Buddy, I'm right there with you.  What I think the combination of provable facts and speculation tells us is: Parvati's BFFs Erika and Lynne are casting producers for Survivor, and they set her up to win the season by giving her pre-set friends in both camps and no true enemies.  They booted Ozzy (a HUGE fan fave and HUGE hero) at the last minute for no apparent reason, and he is an enemy of Parv.  Danielle, for example, was apparently Parv's friend outside the game.  The biggest allegation is that Erika and/or Lynne gave both Russell and Parv inside info before the game so that they would know to work together and have a built-in advantage.