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     Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice

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    Gravy

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    Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Wednesday, March 10, 2010 4:25 PM (permalink)
    KirksNoseHair


    Hwangman


    KirksNoseHair


    I would urge you to to consider the hard drive spindle speed when you make your decision.  I am not sure if the MacBooks come with 7200RPM drives or not, but I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference in performance between a 5400RPM drive and a 7200RPM drive.  So the iMac (if you have really settled on Apple and the huge price tag they come with) is probably a better choice, unless you can get the laptop with a 7200RPM drive in it.

    It's too bad this came up now, because I got rid of the MacBook Pro 17" laptop I had recently, since it was just collecting dust.


    Damn!  Yeah, a 17'' version would have been sweet, though good call on the HDD speeds.  I definitely need 7200RPM.  Haven't decided on anything yet, but i should be doing so shortly.  I am going to give my PC rig one more chance.  I've had to reinstall the OS and all of my programs.  I'm going to try recording later this week/weekend, and i get tons of errors and crashing (like i did previously), it's Mac for me.  So sick of this not working.  I'm fine w/spending a little bit more if it's going to work and continue to work for years.


    Well, let's be logical here for a moment.  If you're reloading a 2 or 3 year old PC and using that as the criteria by which to evaluate whether or not you should move on to a new Mac, what's the point?  Just go get the Mac, because clearly, you've decided the Windows machine sucks because you've been having tons of problems with it.  And that's perfectly understandable.  But from what I've seen here on the forum, you're pretty new to home recording technology, and it almost seems like you're kind of making a knee-jerk decision here because you've had problems with the PC....

    I don't know what software you use to record.  I am a Cakewalk Sonar guy.  I use Cakewalk Sonar 8 producer edition on a Windows XP Pro machine.  I've got one project for my album that has over 45 tracks on it, and I have no problems at all.  No crashing, no latency, no blue screens, nothing.  Works flawlessly.

    But that wasn't always the case.  On the studio PC I had prior to this one, I had nothing but problems.  Crashing, Blue Screens of Death, all kinds of latency, freezing, you name it.  And the PC was probably 3 years old.  So I went out and purchased a brand new PC for about $1200.  Pretty high-end HP desktop.  3.0 Ghz CPU, 16GB of memory, (4) 1TB 7200RPM SATA-300 Drives in a RAID 1+0 (mirror + stripe) configuration, Windows XP Pro 64bit, etc.....I load it all up with my software, I install my recording interface (I use the Delta 1010 recording interface, which uses a PCI card to connect the rack component to the PC).....so I get all this stuff loaded up, I open up one of my projects, I start working...and BAM!  Fucking blue screen of death!

    I was PISSED!!!   I almost threw the computer out the damned window!

    Turned everything off, left it alone for a few days.

    Then I sent an email to Cakewalk technical support, describing my problem and the symptoms.  They replied with questions about my hardware.  I answered their questions.

    The next day, I find out that on Dual Core CPUs, under certain conditions, you have to disable something called "Data Execution Prevention" for Cakewalk to function properly.

    I did this and never had a problem again, neither on the original system that I spent $1200 to replace, nor on the new spiffy computer that I never really needed to purchase in the first place.

    So anyway, my point is (and I know you've been battling this problem for a while now) just make sure you've covered all of the bases before you run out and plunk down a huge wad of cake on a new Mac.  If you've got your mind made up already (and that kind of sounds like the case) well, that's OK too, those iMacs are definitely extremely sweet machines, but they are ridiculously expensive and for the kind of money you'll spend on one of those, you could set yourself up with a really nice PC and not have to learn anything new or buy any new software.....

    I won't bash the Macs, they are great.  Overpriced, but definitely high quality, and yes, they tend to be more stable than PCs in general. 


    I have seen you mention experience over education when talking about hiring employees. You sir are experienced at life. And I look forward to your posts.
    "He's such a perfectionist. Such a fucking monster musician."  - Geddy Lee on Neil Peart
     
    #79
      KirksNoseHair

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      Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Wednesday, March 10, 2010 5:52 PM (permalink)
      Thanks, Gravy, I just like to help people when I can.

       
      #80
        josh_b55

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        Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Wednesday, March 10, 2010 9:48 PM (permalink)
        van Furlay


        josh_b55


        Mine should be here today. I'll report back if I just embarrassed myself! 
        Oh, by the way. i7, 2TB, 8GB (4x2), 27", AppleCare. A fine beast.




        Wow... That sounds great!

        Did you sell your house?!

        Car?!



        Hah! Thanks! I can't wait to get it… Unfortunately no one was home today to receive the package, so I need to run down to the UPS depot tomorrow to pick it up. It's going to be perfect for video/audio editing. I'm pleased. Plus I'm that much cooler when I talk about it on the internet!

        …By the way, does anyone have any friends who might offer me a free room in their house?


         
        #81
          WilliamMunny

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          Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Wednesday, March 10, 2010 11:42 PM (permalink)
          KirksNoseHair


          WilliamMunny


          I loved my toshiba laptop and the windows XP it ran...LOVED it....

          until...I'd download a service pack or an update and everything would just NOT work...a lot of my equipment did not have windows signed drivers and manufacturers were always late in getting updates...

          This was only a problem with recording..and boy would it derail my mojo when I'd have to deal with this bullshit....I am not a computer guy and I'm sure others would have not had an issue but with me all I wanted to do was record...when I WANTED to....

          solution...IMAC with VMware and pro copy of windows XP....the best of both worlds....


          Here's what I do:  Once I have my studio PC working the way I need it to work, that's IT!  No downloads, no updates, nothing.  It's not even connected to the internet.  I have not had a single problem with it since I loaded it.  Because nothing has changed.  Because nothing needs to change, because it's not exposed to any threats, because I keep it isolated and off the internet.


          You are a smart man!  I had never really considered having a stand-alone pc for recording bc I wanted on computer to do it all...but honestly, that is a good idea considering all the recording I do...

          My windows XP partition is kept isolated from the internet for that reason.



          "Be careful.  You're a man who makes people afraid, and that's dangerous."

          "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes em' afraid."
           
          #82
            KirksNoseHair

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            Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 7:32 AM (permalink)
            It's really just the logic of not fixing something that ain't broken. 

             
            #83
              van Furlay

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              Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 8:37 AM (permalink)
              josh_b55


              Unfortunately no one was home today to receive the package, so I need to run down to the UPS depot tomorrow to pick it up.


              Oh... I can do this for you.
               
              #84
                WilliamMunny

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                Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 10:01 AM (permalink)
                KirksNoseHair


                It's really just the logic of not fixing something that ain't broken. 


                Yeah...we have this problem at work all the time...updates, updates, updates...

                and they always mess stuff up....I understand the concept behind trying to improve upon something but the OS and software we use seem to be better the LESS updates we use...
                "Be careful.  You're a man who makes people afraid, and that's dangerous."

                "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes em' afraid."
                 
                #85
                  Hwangman

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                  Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:42 AM (permalink)
                  KirksNoseHair


                  Why not just buy a PC?  I've gotta tell you man, the vast overwhelming majority of PC problems like this that I encounter are with systems that people insist on building themselves.  What's the point?  You don't really save much money at all nowadays and you end up with the possibility of components that don't really work together. (as you've already seen).  You buy a name-brand, at least you are guaranteed that all of the components work together. 

                  I am almost positive that your problems are related to some compatibility issue between a couple of the components on your current system.  If you're really thinking about another PC, my advise would be to just buy a PC, from a reputable manufacturer, (HP/Dell/Sony, whatever - I recommend HP) then at least you have someone to go to when there are problems. 


                  As i said, i'm just hesitant to drop $1000+ into a system that will potentially give me more problems.  One of my good friends and bandmates has $2500 custom Dell that sucks for recording.  He gets horrible latency, crashes, etc.  Not as bad as my problems, but it's still enough for me to be cautious.  I just went on Dell's site, picked one of their high end units, and customized the components.  I'm still looking at over $1500 for the specs i want. 


                   
                  #86
                    Monk

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                    Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 11:53 AM (permalink)
                    Hwangman


                    KirksNoseHair


                    Why not just buy a PC?  I've gotta tell you man, the vast overwhelming majority of PC problems like this that I encounter are with systems that people insist on building themselves.  What's the point?  You don't really save much money at all nowadays and you end up with the possibility of components that don't really work together. (as you've already seen).  You buy a name-brand, at least you are guaranteed that all of the components work together. 

                    I am almost positive that your problems are related to some compatibility issue between a couple of the components on your current system.  If you're really thinking about another PC, my advise would be to just buy a PC, from a reputable manufacturer, (HP/Dell/Sony, whatever - I recommend HP) then at least you have someone to go to when there are problems. 


                    As i said, i'm just hesitant to drop $1000+ into a system that will potentially give me more problems.  One of my good friends and bandmates has $2500 custom Dell that sucks for recording.  He gets horrible latency, crashes, etc.  Not as bad as my problems, but it's still enough for me to be cautious.  I just went on Dell's site, picked one of their high end units, and customized the components.  I'm still looking at over $1500 for the specs i want. 


                    My next computer I plan to have someone else build it, however the computer I have right now is 2 years old and going strong. Not a single hardware failure. Fast as hell and I love it. Now with companies out there that literally do what I just did, Kirk is right, there is right now no point into building a computer unless that is your lively-hood. Me? I just need something fast, durable and great for photography and film editing. I would switch to a mac but I'm invested in the PC and honestly I don't mind it one bit. No regrets. Not one.

                    Oh and..


                    GEt A pC!!!! LOLROLLOL!!!111 mAC's ArE TEH sUXORS!!!!


                     
                    #87
                      Hwangman

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                      Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:04 PM (permalink)
                      There's also something like this Creation Station.  I've heard good things about those too, as they are custom made for PC recording, but the specs aren't as high as i'd like.  That's their top model, so i'd be spending $1500 to start AND having to throw in money for more RAM and upgrading the OS to 64-bit.  Seems like whatever i choose, for what i'm looking for, it's going to be over $1500.
                       
                      #88
                        Jimz

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                        Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 12:35 PM (permalink)
                        Hwangman


                        KirksNoseHair


                        Why not just buy a PC?  I've gotta tell you man, the vast overwhelming majority of PC problems like this that I encounter are with systems that people insist on building themselves.  What's the point?  You don't really save much money at all nowadays and you end up with the possibility of components that don't really work together. (as you've already seen).  You buy a name-brand, at least you are guaranteed that all of the components work together. 

                        I am almost positive that your problems are related to some compatibility issue between a couple of the components on your current system.  If you're really thinking about another PC, my advise would be to just buy a PC, from a reputable manufacturer, (HP/Dell/Sony, whatever - I recommend HP) then at least you have someone to go to when there are problems. 


                        As i said, i'm just hesitant to drop $1000+ into a system that will potentially give me more problems.  One of my good friends and bandmates has $2500 custom Dell that sucks for recording.  He gets horrible latency, crashes, etc.  Not as bad as my problems, but it's still enough for me to be cautious.  I just went on Dell's site, picked one of their high end units, and customized the components.  I'm still looking at over $1500 for the specs i want. 


                        That's a good observation.  The problem with the name-brand PCs is that they cut corners inside the box.  That's how they get a product out at street level as cheaply as they do.  My wife has a nice Compaq desktop, no complaints, works for what she does with it, but that thing just chokes like a skeleton on a crust of bread any time you try to do anything hardware-intensive on it.

                        Meanwhile, when you run Windows natively in bootcamp on a Mac, it SCREAMS.  That was another big surprise for me when I first switched.  I bootcamped XP onto my Mini, expecting it to be fairly slow because the Mini is a pretty low-end box, but it was far faster running on the Mini than it had been on my (theoretically) more-buff PC.  It completely blew away my expectations, and now I understand why Mac Minis are popular XBMC/ATV media boxes... you can get used hardware pretty cheaply, throw in some more RAM and hard drive space pretty cheaply, and then away you go.

                        Mac-specific utils finally came out for some projects I was working on, so I no longer run a Windows partition (and the OS lets you create and remove them non-destructively with the rest of your drive), but when I was running the Windows 7 RC on my current iMac, it was fantastic.  Friends commented on it when they were over... they were as surprised as I was.

                        Good hardware that's designed and integrated to work together well goes a long way.  Taking the cheapest OTS components out of Taiwan and cobbling them together for a retail PC offering is never going to get you there, and building your own box is only better in the sense that you have a bit more control over that and the degree of misintegration won't be as severe.
                         
                        #89
                          KirksNoseHair

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                          Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:03 PM (permalink)
                          Hwangman


                          KirksNoseHair


                          Why not just buy a PC?  I've gotta tell you man, the vast overwhelming majority of PC problems like this that I encounter are with systems that people insist on building themselves.  What's the point?  You don't really save much money at all nowadays and you end up with the possibility of components that don't really work together. (as you've already seen).  You buy a name-brand, at least you are guaranteed that all of the components work together. 

                          I am almost positive that your problems are related to some compatibility issue between a couple of the components on your current system.  If you're really thinking about another PC, my advise would be to just buy a PC, from a reputable manufacturer, (HP/Dell/Sony, whatever - I recommend HP) then at least you have someone to go to when there are problems. 


                          As i said, i'm just hesitant to drop $1000+ into a system that will potentially give me more problems.  One of my good friends and bandmates has $2500 custom Dell that sucks for recording.  He gets horrible latency, crashes, etc.  Not as bad as my problems, but it's still enough for me to be cautious.  I just went on Dell's site, picked one of their high end units, and customized the components.  I'm still looking at over $1500 for the specs i want. 

                          Well, first off, Dell would be dead last on my list of potential PCs.  I won't allow them here in this building.  I find their stuff to be pretty mediocre to be honest.  Yes, everyone has good and bad personal experiences with various different manufacturers, but I'm exposed to thousands of PCs and Servers every year, and I and all of the techs who work for me just roll our eyes when one of our customers insists on buying Dell.  Because they ain't all that.  We've found HP/Compaq to be substantially superior in overall quality and value.

                          Secondly, you don't really believe that no one ever has problems with Macs right?  In other words, you are acting as if the Mac is just absolutely guaranteed to work, with no problems of any kind, ever.  Don't believe the hype.  Yes, they are good.  Yes, on average they are more stable than PCs, but getting a Mac is by no means a guarantee that your computer is going to be 100% problem free.

                          At the end of the day, it's your money and you will spend it the way that you feel is best for you, but I just think spending $2500 on an Apple computer just because you have a windows PC that is giving you problems and your friend has one that's had problems, well, it just doesn't sound like good logic to me.  Especially when it's absolutely true that for less than half of that amount you CAN get a Windows Computer that WILL work for music production. 

                          By the way, I have encountered TONS of latency issues on recording PCs over the years and with ONE exception, they were all CONFIGURATION errors, not hardware problems - just something to think about.

                          Anyway, post some pictures of your new Mac after you buy it



                           
                          #90
                            Hwangman

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                            Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:32 PM (permalink)
                            KNH, i tried checking the PC Connection link you posted on page 2 but it gave me an error.  Do you mind re-linking?  I'm curious to check out what you recommended.

                            Since i'm not making the purchase right away, i will check out some HP models and see what price range they fall into.  I'm not 100% opposed to a new PC, just a little gun shy after my current problems.

                            I realize anything electronic has a chance of failure.  I recently started a repair tech job and i've seen a handful of Macs come in.  Thing is, aside from one having a corrupt OS, the rest were all simple config questions (password needs changing, wireless was turned off, etc).  Add to that all the glowing reviews i've read and the people i know that have Mac products, and yeah, i'm really really tempted. 

                            Though i'm very much wanting a Mac, it's probably going to come down to price...i could throw $2500 on the credit card and get an iMac, but i would much rather spend in the $1000 - 1500 range.  Problem is, i haven't seen a PC in that range w/the specs i need. 
                             
                            #91
                              Jimz

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                              Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 2:34 PM (permalink)
                              KirksNoseHair

                              Secondly, you don't really believe that no one ever has problems with Macs right?  In other words, you are acting as if the Mac is just absolutely guaranteed to work, with no problems of any kind, ever.  Don't believe the hype.  Yes, they are good.  Yes, on average they are more stable than PCs, but getting a Mac is by no means a guarantee that your computer is going to be 100% problem free.


                              True enough.  But consistently, Macs are close, while even good PCs get the BSOD and/or get hardlocks or error-caused data loss.

                              It's only anecdata, but my current iMac has never crashed -- not ever, not even once.  The only programs that have even errored out (and did so safely, affecting no other tasks) were Handbrake and, surprisingly, Guitar Pro.  The Handbrake problems I expected... you do funky stuff like video with a freeware app, sometimes your box is gonna throw an exception.  Guitar Pro is a stumper.  Despite some glitches, it actually runs more reliably under XP than OS X.  It might be the one and only program that exists that does so.  Possibly Arobas is just in rough shape now...?  Who knows.
                               
                              #92
                                KirksNoseHair

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                                Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:23 PM (permalink)
                                Hwangman


                                KNH, i tried checking the PC Connection link you posted on page 2 but it gave me an error.  Do you mind re-linking?  I'm curious to check out what you recommended.

                                Since i'm not making the purchase right away, i will check out some HP models and see what price range they fall into.  I'm not 100% opposed to a new PC, just a little gun shy after my current problems.

                                I realize anything electronic has a chance of failure.  I recently started a repair tech job and i've seen a handful of Macs come in.  Thing is, aside from one having a corrupt OS, the rest were all simple config questions (password needs changing, wireless was turned off, etc).  Add to that all the glowing reviews i've read and the people i know that have Mac products, and yeah, i'm really really tempted. 

                                Though i'm very much wanting a Mac, it's probably going to come down to price...i could throw $2500 on the credit card and get an iMac, but i would much rather spend in the $1000 - 1500 range.  Problem is, i haven't seen a PC in that range w/the specs i need. 


                                Don't let me talk you out of the Mac if your heart is set on it, dude.  Look, there is no doubt that there stuff is superior to Windows PCs in many, many ways.  I just have a really hard time justifying the price, which I feel is ridiculously bloated. 

                                I can't find the quad core xw4600 Workstation, and I think they discontinued the specific model that I had purchased, but it's very similar to this machine:

                                http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=9303366

                                Except it was about $200 more, so I think I paid around $1100 for the PC, then I added a TON of ram and an SATA RAID controller and some hard drives, but let me tell something:  It screams!  And I've got some HUGE projects on my album - there are three epics on there and the long one is 23 minutes and change and it has (I think) 47 tracks, a bunch of effects and EQ buses etc....no problems at all.  I use Cakewalk Sonar, and one of the people on their web site actually recommended the HP xw4600 workstation because they had experienced NO problems with it.  True enough, it's been terrific for me too, and with the money I saved in comparison to a Mac, I got myself a nice 27" LCD

                                Now, for $1500, you could probably get that xw4600 Workstation with 64bit Windows 7 and 8GB of memory.....I think those come with either a 320GB or 500gb setup with dual drives (mirrored)

                                It's probably not as elegant and fancy as a Mac, and it's possible that you'll have issues, I guess, but these machines DO come with a one year warranty and for a little more money you can extend the warranty.

                                But look, I just want to make sure you understand that I AM NOT trying to talk you out of the Mac, I'm just trying to make sure you realize that you have options and should consider them.....

                                Also, I don't know anything about that software you are using.  Sonar is solid, stable, well-established in the market, and has great technical support.  I had latency issues when I first got this computer and I was PISSED OFF!!  I emailed their tech support and had a solution in 45 minutes and it worked.  No more latency at all.

                                I don't make the HP suggestion lightly.  My entire engineering department is using them.  There are about 40 engineers here.  They all LOVE their HP xw4600 Workstations.  They are very solid, very stable, very reliable.  The oldest one is now about 3 years old and we've never had a single problem (other than a virus or the odd piece of spyware) in all that time, no hardware issues of any kind.  So I think it's a solid product, or else I wouldn't make the recommendation.  I've been using mine in the studio for a little over a year now and it's extremely dependable.


                                 
                                #93
                                  KirksNoseHair

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                                  Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:38 PM (permalink)
                                  Jimz


                                  KirksNoseHair

                                  Secondly, you don't really believe that no one ever has problems with Macs right?  In other words, you are acting as if the Mac is just absolutely guaranteed to work, with no problems of any kind, ever.  Don't believe the hype.  Yes, they are good.  Yes, on average they are more stable than PCs, but getting a Mac is by no means a guarantee that your computer is going to be 100% problem free.


                                  True enough.  But consistently, Macs are close, while even good PCs get the BSOD and/or get hardlocks or error-caused data loss.

                                  It's only anecdata, but my current iMac has never crashed -- not ever, not even once.  The only programs that have even errored out (and did so safely, affecting no other tasks) were Handbrake and, surprisingly, Guitar Pro.  The Handbrake problems I expected... you do funky stuff like video with a freeware app, sometimes your box is gonna throw an exception.  Guitar Pro is a stumper.  Despite some glitches, it actually runs more reliably under XP than OS X.  It might be the one and only program that exists that does so.  Possibly Arobas is just in rough shape now...?  Who knows.


                                  I'm with ya, as I've mentioned, the Macs are definitely superior in terms of stability.  I guess I'm just willing to put up with an occasional crash to spend half the money for the same amount of computing power.

                                   
                                  #94
                                    Hwangman

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                                    Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 3:39 PM (permalink)
                                    Thanks KNH.  No worries on leading me away from Mac.  I have no brand loyalty, just trying to find what will work for me.  That said, i've built PC's (my current rig) and bought premade ones (my last 2), and had problems w/audio recording and mixing on all of them. 

                                    That said, i would never want to completely rid myself of my PC.  Pretty much everything outside of recording/mixing works just fine on my current rig.  Aside from possibly upgrading it to a 64-bit OS, i don't feel like it needs anything.

                                    I agree that Macs (and all Apple products) are stupid expensive.  That said, if it works, it works, and from videos, reviews, and testimonials from friends and other audio-minded folks, the Macs work.  I will still consider the workstation line you mentioned (thanks again for the link), though it still looks like i'd need quite a few upgrades for it to perform up to snuff.  That's where the PC models go from waaaay cheaper than Macs to just a little cheaper.
                                     
                                    #95
                                      josh_b55

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                                      Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:08 PM (permalink)
                                      KirksNoseHair


                                      Jimz


                                      KirksNoseHair

                                      Secondly, you don't really believe that no one ever has problems with Macs right?  In other words, you are acting as if the Mac is just absolutely guaranteed to work, with no problems of any kind, ever.  Don't believe the hype.  Yes, they are good.  Yes, on average they are more stable than PCs, but getting a Mac is by no means a guarantee that your computer is going to be 100% problem free.


                                      True enough.  But consistently, Macs are close, while even good PCs get the BSOD and/or get hardlocks or error-caused data loss.

                                      It's only anecdata, but my current iMac has never crashed -- not ever, not even once.  The only programs that have even errored out (and did so safely, affecting no other tasks) were Handbrake and, surprisingly, Guitar Pro.  The Handbrake problems I expected... you do funky stuff like video with a freeware app, sometimes your box is gonna throw an exception.  Guitar Pro is a stumper.  Despite some glitches, it actually runs more reliably under XP than OS X.  It might be the one and only program that exists that does so.  Possibly Arobas is just in rough shape now...?  Who knows.


                                      I'm with ya, as I've mentioned, the Macs are definitely superior in terms of stability.  I guess I'm just willing to put up with an occasional crash to spend half the money for the same amount of computing power.



                                      I completely understand this argument and I'm a Mac user (fanatic) who has the mind set of "If you prefer Windows, that's cool. I like OS X and you love Windows. Big deal." I won't get up in anybody's face about it.
                                      While this is true, I've gotta say I would not trade in this 27" beauty for anything. 
                                      This is possibly the fastest computer I've ever touched. It encoded a 90 minute HD (720p x264) video for me earlier in about a half hour. 

                                       
                                      #96
                                        DougMasters

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                                        Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 4:28 PM (permalink)
                                        I was at a studio once who had a near maxed out Mac Pro.... the render time on it was SICK!!! Then I went back to the studio i was working at and had to deal with the g5 :( Ah.... that feeling of longing.

                                        If I had the money I would snag a mac in a heartbeat, having to work on a couple and then go back to the windows pc was a bit of a heart breaker.
                                         
                                        #97
                                          KtremelloH

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                                          Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 5:41 PM (permalink)
                                           
                                          #98
                                            Scott Spain

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                                            Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Thursday, March 11, 2010 6:12 PM (permalink)
                                            I just finished setting up my new 27" i7 iMac.  Video editing is going to be a dream on this thing.
                                             
                                            #99
                                              van Furlay

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                                              Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Friday, March 12, 2010 7:21 AM (permalink)
                                              I witnessed the whole thread all the time. And now I decided to write in a few words what my opinion is.
                                              First off: I absolutely love Apple/Macs.
                                              The big negative thing is plain and simple the big price tag Kirk mentioned.

                                              That being said:
                                              As Kirk said it just doesn't make sense to switch to a Mac, because of some problems with your PC. Especially when you don't know what the cause is/what the causes are.
                                              I have got a recording PC as well. And as Kirk does as well this PC isn't connected to the internet. The components I use for that PC are old. Really old. I bought the majority of the components in 2002! When I chose to use it just for recording I bought a M-Delta Audiophile 24/96 and that was it.
                                              I run for example The Grand and the Halion String Edition.
                                              No latency, no bluescreens etc. Works perfectly. And I use XP there.

                                              You can buy a much much better PC for whatever the amount of money you spend is or will be.

                                              If you have the money and want a great designed machine that runs stable. Go and buy a Mac.
                                              If you want killer components for your money. DON'T buy a Mac! Buy a PC!
                                              A 1000 or 1500 PC will easily destroy a Mac for the same amount of money performance-wise.
                                              Kirk already said it: Your main arguement for a Mac is that it works stable. Well... They work MORE stable than PC maybe, but that doesn't mean that you won't have problems with your Mac.
                                              Again... If you have the money and you can afford it to pay about 30% more for your machine than necessary. Buy a Mac!

                                              ... but please. PLEASE don't make the mistake to NOT buy a PC JUST because you have got problems with your currents setup/components, whatever....
                                               
                                                Hwangman

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                                                Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Friday, March 12, 2010 11:12 AM (permalink)
                                                I appreciate the advice and info, everyone.  Trust me, i'm not chomping at the bit to spend a crapload of cash on a Mac.  Like i said, i don't know anyone who's run into serious problems when doing audio recording/mixing on a Mac, while i know several people who have those problem on their PCs (whether they have budget models or $2000+ customized rigs).

                                                I have today off, so i will, at some point, do some pricing via Newegg and PC Connection.  If there is a ridiculously fast PC rig that is around $1000, then i may be willing to give it a shot.  If it's closer to $1500 or $2000, then it makes more sense to go for a Mac.  I agree that you can get "better" components cheaper for a PC, but i've seen people running 30+ tracks on Macbooks (not even Macbook Pro) w/no latency, no crashing, etc.  I can't even pull of 20 tracks on my current rig that has nearly double the power.
                                                 
                                                  Hwangman

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                                                  Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Friday, March 12, 2010 6:25 PM (permalink)
                                                  I found a customizable HP desktop for around $1350 + tax and shipping (from the HPE-170t series).  The specs:

                                                  Core i7 2.93GHZ
                                                  8GB RAM
                                                  750GB HDD (7200 RPM)
                                                  ATI Radeon 5450 1GB Video Card
                                                  Windows 7 64-bit

                                                  I already have a monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse, so that saved a few bucks.  The total is a little cheaper than i thought i might find, but still, no guarantee it will work.  Kinda torn now.

                                                  KNH, your thoughts on this rig?
                                                   
                                                    Jimz

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                                                    Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:16 AM (permalink)
                                                    Hwangman


                                                    I appreciate the advice and info, everyone.  Trust me, i'm not chomping at the bit to spend a crapload of cash on a Mac.  Like i said, i don't know anyone who's run into serious problems when doing audio recording/mixing on a Mac, while i know several people who have those problem on their PCs (whether they have budget models or $2000+ customized rigs).

                                                    I have today off, so i will, at some point, do some pricing via Newegg and PC Connection.  If there is a ridiculously fast PC rig that is around $1000, then i may be willing to give it a shot.  If it's closer to $1500 or $2000, then it makes more sense to go for a Mac.  I agree that you can get "better" components cheaper for a PC, but i've seen people running 30+ tracks on Macbooks (not even Macbook Pro) w/no latency, no crashing, etc.  I can't even pull of 20 tracks on my current rig that has nearly double the power.


                                                    The thing is this: How much money do you lose having to struggle to get stuff to work right because it doesn't just work turn-key like it would have if you had bought a Mac with OS X in the first place?

                                                    For example, say you buy your HP, but when you get it home you realize the video editing software is shit, and nowhere near as functional or intuitive as iMovie or Final Cut or whatever you like to use.  (just an example, substitute in your projects as appropriate).  And then you realize that the best thing you can get, Adobe Premiere, costs hundreds of dollars more and STILL isn't as good because your hardware isn't designed to do high-end video work.  What do you do then?

                                                    That was what finally switched me over.

                                                    Back in aught-seven, I was working on my wedding DVD project on my old PC, which had some gray hair as it were, and a friend of mine came by and saw me on Adobe Premiere struggling to edit the video, and was like "How long have you been doing this?"  I had to admit, I was many hours into the project over several days.  Then he said "How many other things have you been trying to do on your PC that would have been easier on OS X?"  And I was like "almost everything other than just browsing the net and playing games.  Video, music editing, photo editing, mostly video though, but yeah."  And he said "And you are on your PC every day, for hours a day, right?"  I said yes.  He asked, "So what, 25-30 hours per week for the last few months?"  I said more than that, since I would be on my PC much longer on weekends.  40+ hours per week, easily.  He said "Would 200 hours be a fair estimate for the past 30 days?"  I said yes.

                                                    Then he said "How much money do you make per hour at your job?"  I am salaried but it breaks down to about $33 per hour.  He asked, "Do you consider your projects as important as your job?"  I said "Well they don't pay the bills, but they mean more to me personally."  He then said "So what you are saying is that you've flushed over SIX GRAND down the toilet in lost productivity time over the past month ALONE because you didn't buy the right computer in the first place, a computer that just does this stuff really easily, the correct way, and faster, every time?"

                                                    And all of a sudden, looking at it in that light, the Mac didn't seem that expensive anymore.

                                                    (Of course I wasn't floating in funds or anything so I had to start with a Mac Mini.  But still.  I felt like a perfect idiot for not realizing this, and wasting so many hours on that damned PC when I could have been enjoying myself with family and friends and especially my wife before she got pregnant with our first.  I'll never get those days back.)

                                                    If you have the time and knowledge to tinker and your time isn't worth a lot of money in and of itself, then sure, stay with PC.  If time spent on your computer is time away from what you'd rather be doing, and you want that experience on your computer to be as productive, elegant, and enjoyable as possible, get a Mac.
                                                    <message edited by Jimz on Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:18 AM>
                                                     
                                                      GUTS

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                                                      Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 1:33 AM (permalink)
                                                      Jimz

                                                      If you have the time and knowledge to tinker and your time isn't worth a lot of money in and of itself, then sure, stay with PC. If time spent on your computer is time away from what you'd rather be doing, and you want that experience on your computer to be as productive, elegant, and enjoyable as possible, get a Mac.


                                                      This.

                                                      If something can answer the question "why are the Macs so expensive?" that is definitely value adedd. It not only looks beatiful, all the software included with your Mac is really useful. Nothing of constant pop-up ads from the vendor or the retailer, it's free of bloatware or trial versions. And say goodbye to  your long relationship with any antivirus you know. Yes, OSX it's not completly invulnerable (every system/OS can be hacked) but being not very popular gives it more stability.

                                                      I'm a PC/Windows user but I've got the chance to get my hands on Mac OS X since the last year. And I can assure you, I still cant' find a software that can be as nice and easy to use (and already installed in your PC) as iLife: iPhoto, iMovie, Garageband and iWeb (well, maybe this one could be an exception) worth every damn penny you spend in a Mac. And then you have TimeMachine, easily one of the best programs I've seen for creating backups and recover all your information with a couple of clicks.

                                                      Install Windows in your Mac using Boot Camp. Windows runs better in a Mac than any other PC's out there with the same specs. But don't believe me, go to a decent computer store and see it yourself.

                                                      Don't have enough money for Office for Mac? Give OpenOffice and Thunderbird a chance. Save that money and buy Roxio Toast.

                                                      Cons? Lack of ports. I haven't checked the new models, but at least an HDMI port would be very appreciated. The built-in speakers aren't that nice and you can't connect a 5.1 speaker sound system. The 1.3 MP camera is just above average. And yes, when a Mac crashes the principal suspect is Adobe Flash, currently the most insecure software for any PC, not only for Macs.

                                                      If you have some money to spent, I think you should buy one. But you could get a PC with the same hardware for half cost (or even less) of a Mac anyway.

                                                      <message edited by GUTS on Saturday, March 13, 2010 1:36 AM>
                                                       
                                                        KirksNoseHair

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                                                        Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 9:15 AM (permalink)
                                                        Hwangman


                                                        I found a customizable HP desktop for around $1350 + tax and shipping (from the HPE-170t series).  The specs:

                                                        Core i7 2.93GHZ
                                                        8GB RAM
                                                        750GB HDD (7200 RPM)
                                                        ATI Radeon 5450 1GB Video Card
                                                        Windows 7 64-bit

                                                        I already have a monitor, speakers, keyboard, and mouse, so that saved a few bucks.  The total is a little cheaper than i thought i might find, but still, no guarantee it will work.  Kinda torn now.

                                                        KNH, your thoughts on this rig?


                                                        First thought is what do you need all of that video horsepower for?  I will tell you the same thing I tell everyone who is buying a PC for home recording>  Don't use it for anything but HOME RECORDING.  Once you have it working the way you want it to work, leave it OFF the internet. 

                                                        That video adapter would suggest to me that you are, perhaps, considering loading games on this machine?  Let me be very clear:  Games = Problems  It never fails.

                                                        Otherwise, the i7 is a great CPU and with 8GB of memory, you should be in fine shape.

                                                        Remove the pre-installed "bloatware" if/when you get it. 



                                                         
                                                          Jimz

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                                                          Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 10:59 AM (permalink)
                                                          GUTS

                                                          Cons? Lack of ports. I haven't checked the new models, but at least an HDMI port would be very appreciated. The built-in speakers aren't that nice and you can't connect a 5.1 speaker sound system.


                                                          Agreed.  I don't know if we'll see it with the Tuesday refresh, but some of the things I am looking for on the Mac line before I upgrade are...

                                                          1. USB 3, now that it's finalized
                                                          2. HDMI in/out
                                                          3. digital audio out (actually the Mac Pro has this but not other mac models)
                                                          4. Blu-ray burners replacing the Superdrives
                                                          5. eSATA/SAS

                                                          Right now, aside from expansion cards in a Mac Pro and USB external blurays, those are the hardware things that PCs can do that Macs, as currently built, don't do.  So if any of those are critical path, you need a PC... for now.
                                                           
                                                            Hwangman

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                                                            Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:09 PM (permalink)
                                                            KirksNoseHair


                                                            First thought is what do you need all of that video horsepower for?  I will tell you the same thing I tell everyone who is buying a PC for home recording>  Don't use it for anything but HOME RECORDING.  Once you have it working the way you want it to work, leave it OFF the internet. 

                                                            That video adapter would suggest to me that you are, perhaps, considering loading games on this machine?  Let me be very clear:  Games = Problems  It never fails.



                                                            Ideally, it would be just for recording.  No gaming.  The video card came w/that model for free, so that's why it's listed. 

                                                            Jimz has some great points.  The rig i found is considerably cheaper than a MBP/iMac, but if i get it home, optimize it, and i still run into problems, i'm completely screwed.  I can only afford to do this massive upgrade once.
                                                             
                                                              WilliamMunny

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                                                              Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:13 PM (permalink)
                                                              I will say that if you buy a Mac and hate it...they do retain their value somewhat (relativly speaking of course)...re-selling it may not be so bad...

                                                              so that may be another pro for making the jump...
                                                              "Be careful.  You're a man who makes people afraid, and that's dangerous."

                                                              "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes em' afraid."
                                                               
                                                                Hwangman

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                                                                Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:23 PM (permalink)
                                                                True.  I'm pretty OCD about keeping my stuff clean, so i'm hoping that if i got a Mac, i could possibly sell it off in 3-4 years and still make some money on it.  I've also heard that their customer service is awesome.
                                                                 
                                                                  henry mustaine

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                                                                  Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:25 PM (permalink)
                                                                  i was a pc guy very long time ago, just before i attend to law school, when i was just about to begin my law school time, one of my brothers advise me to give a mac a chance, and let me tell you, since i bought my ibook G4 i never come back to touch a pc anymore, if you have a mac you have simpleness, easyness, awesomeness, just that, its true, you sometimes will have a hard time with compatibility of certain software but is not impossible to get similar things to do the same or even better than the pc versions...


                                                                  i have now a macbook intel and im still in love bro, is a big chance for you to buy one of this and never look back again.

                                                                  ps: you must be warned that, when you take your mac, its like you will learn all over again about computers, you must unlearn everything you did learn in pc, but belive me, its a very confortable and sweet process bro, enjoy!!!

                                                                  H. MELKOR
                                                                   
                                                                    Hwangman

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                                                                    Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Saturday, March 13, 2010 12:32 PM (permalink)
                                                                    It would make the decision SO much easier if i had an extra $1000 in my pocket, but this is really tempting.
                                                                     
                                                                      Hwangman

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                                                                      Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Sunday, March 14, 2010 10:28 PM (permalink)
                                                                      I'm being tempted!  At work today, we sold a lot of Macs and i was troubleshooting a PC right next to a 27'' iMac.  Drool...
                                                                       
                                                                        Merovingian

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                                                                        Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Monday, July 05, 2010 7:50 PM (permalink)

                                                                        my current setup, as of today:


                                                                        left to right: 


                                                                        23" cinema display - 2008 macbook pro 15" - and the new baby 27" iMac i5. 


                                                                        Running Logic Pro, Ableton Live 8, Reason/Record, Photoshop CS5 and some other goodies. 



                                                                        Time for some thrilling heroics
                                                                         
                                                                          tjanuranus

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                                                                          Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Monday, July 05, 2010 8:01 PM (permalink)
                                                                          Merovingian


                                                                          my current setup, as of today:


                                                                          left to right: 


                                                                          23" cinema display - 2008 macbook pro 15" - and the new baby 27" iMac i5. 


                                                                          Running Logic Pro, Ableton Live 8, Reason/Record, Photoshop CS5 and some other goodies. 





                                                                          nice. i have a mbpro, my wife has a macbook. and two old ibooks in the closet. I sold my old mbpro and my old mac mini. At the studio at work i have a Mac Pro 8 core and some imacs.

                                                                          BTW that magic mouse is awesome. Do you use magicprefs? it's free and it makes that mouse even better.
                                                                           
                                                                            Merovingian

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                                                                            Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Monday, July 05, 2010 8:04 PM (permalink)
                                                                            I'll have to check that out thanks. 

                                                                            I was thinking about going for the mac pro, but realized that for my need it was overkill. 

                                                                            :)
                                                                            Time for some thrilling heroics
                                                                             
                                                                              WilliamMunny

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                                                                              Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Monday, July 05, 2010 11:09 PM (permalink)
                                                                              Nice setup!
                                                                              "Be careful.  You're a man who makes people afraid, and that's dangerous."

                                                                              "It's what people know about themselves inside that makes em' afraid."
                                                                               
                                                                                Epitaph04

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                                                                                Re:Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice Monday, July 05, 2010 11:12 PM (permalink)
                                                                                I don't mean to hijack the thread, but if I was going to get a PC, what company (brand) would you recommend? I just want it for surfing, play music, MAYBE record some stuff in the future, and play the occasional game or two.
                                                                                Get up and deconstruct.
                                                                                 
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