Thinking about buying a Mac... need some advice

Hwangman


In need of some advice and this thread seemed appropriate. 

It looks like i may FINALLY be on my way to purchasing a Mac for recording.  Question is, which Mac to get?  I'd be using it for audio recording/production, so it would need to be capable of running a DAW and several plug-ins w/o lagging or crashing. 

The Macbook Pros look good, though i'm also curious about the newer iMacs.  Any suggestions?

i had an old imac (2006 model) running logic 8, with Superior Drummer, and it would error occasionally because the CPU couldnt handle the Superior Plug-in.

i just got a new 21.5" imac, running the same logic and Superior Drummer, and its using like 40% cpu at the most, at any given time, and can easily and pretty much flawlessly play back 10 or so tracks all with numerous reverbs and plug-ins on them.

what i find is, despite the macbook pro (have one in my house as well) having the same specs, it does not run the same as the imac. which is why i think all the "you can build a pc with the same specs for cheaper" arguments are shit. theres something going on inside macs that makes them run that much better than anything else with the "same" specs.

so my advice: get an iMac, and if you can afford it, the top of the range 27", cos itll make seeing and using your DAW extremely easy...

Thanks.  I'll add the iMac to my list of potential candidates.  I was leaning towards a MBP due to the portability and the fact that i see them used all over the place by musicians and audio guys.  However, portability isn't a deal-breaker so i'd go w/whatever will do the job the best (provided it's in budget).

im sure the new MBP would do well, on second thoughts, cos you do see a hell of a lot of musos using them for live stuff. i just find desktops sturdier for home studioing

True.  The only advantage to the MBP is being able to start a song, take it to a friend's house for additional recording, and then bringing it back for mixing. 

I have an IMac24....the baseline 2.4 with 1 gig of ram (upgreaded it to 3 though)...

I run Logic 8 and have been able to routinely get 28 -32 tracks simultaneous playback with no issues...at about 36 tracks i will start to get the occaisonal "cpu overload" message...but all it does is pause and then I just hit play again and it is good...

this being the bottom line IMac I must say I was and am blown away by this...

I don't do much else but record and my IMac was the best "bang-for-my-buck" purchase I have made!

^ yeahhh!!! thats exactly what i mean. when i got my new imac i was amazed how it handles big logic projects so well.

WilliamMunny


I have an IMac24....the baseline 2.4 with 1 gig of ram (upgreaded it to 3 though)...

I run Logic 8 and have been able to routinely get 28 -32 tracks simultaneous playback with no issues...at about 36 tracks i will start to get the occaisonal "cpu overload" message...but all it does is pause and then I just hit play again and it is good...

That sounds perfect!  Right now i'm on a home built PC w/4GB of RAM, but after 10-12 tracks (only a couple w/fx), it bogs down and sometimes blue screens.  Really frustrating.  I want something that would just work, and for a little more than it would cost to rebuild my PC, i could get a MBP or iMac and have it work when i want it to. 

Don't get the iMac 27'' yet. It's first run had a lot of problems including defective LCD Panels that Apple didn't want to admit at first, but still sent memo's internally to convince unhappy customers to keep them.

More info here:

http://gizmodo.com/5478509/the-conclusion-to-the-faulty-imac-saga-the-beginning-of-the-fix

oh lol edit: I'm a computer scientist, and I got my first mac last year (24'' iMac). OSX is great but I can't get used the keyboard yet. I'm a  programmer so I code a lot and you need to know that the Home/End/Page up/Page Down keys don't work the same as in a PC and this is frustrating when coding.

Go with the Quad-Core iMac as the other models are using the outdated Core2Duo chips.

Hold off on the Macbook Air, as a laptop update is due soon.

As for the iMac issues, they are fixed last I heard.  I have a 27" iMac and it is flawless.

Hwangman


I was leaning towards a MBP due to the portability and the fact that i see them used all over the place by musicians and audio guys.

Yeah that's right. I'd like to know what the specs of artist's MacBook Pro's are. Does anyone know anything about this?

The point is that for example JR uses one for presentations and stuff and he can afford a very well equipped MBP and so I wouldn't be surprised, if he'd buy a MBP with the (more or less) best available components.
Michael Jackson's keyboard player on This Is It used a MBP as well...

Yup...now that i'm paying attention to it, i see them being used by keyboard players, drummers, etc, in a lot of live footage.  If something's durable enough to be used night after night on the road w/o crashing, i'm interested.  I've also seen footage of a MBP running 20+ tracks w/tons of plug-ins and having no problems at all. That's what i'm looking for.

Don't.

I've recently upgraded my mac to the Imac 27" and I absolutely adore it.  It is the 5th Mac I've owned over the last 16 years, and all of them have been great machines.  My last model was the only one that had a problem that required service, which was a blown power supply, but that was after it was almost six years old. The iLife software is awesome, and makes sorting photos and making DVD's a real breeze.  I also have an Acer netbook with XP which I need to support my HTC Touch Pro 2 smartphone, so I actually need both platforms.

SCDTFAN


Hello everyone, I have been a member of this forum for many years but I do not post much. I would like to get some opinions from you all.
I have been thinking about making the switch from PC to Mac. I have been a PC user for 15 years or so and I have never really touched a Mac so I do have some concerns.
Everyone I have talked to that has used a PC and a Mac say that they love apple computers and would never go back. Is there anything I should know or be aware of? Are Macs as good as everyone makes them out to be? What are the pros and cons? Is it pretty simple to figure out? Why doesnt Macs need antivirus software?
 
These may seem like silly questions but I really want to make sure I make a good decision when spending a lot of money.
 
I am thinking about buying an iMac 27 inch version. Not sure if I am going to go with quad core or dual core yet. I am also thinking about buying a macbook air to take on the road with me.
 
Thanks in advance for any advice.
 
Jason

I have the iMac 24" that preceded the iMac 27" and it's been awesome.  It's my third Mac, and I plan to upgrade to the new refresh Mac Pro on 3/16/2010 and just go whole hog.  The cool thing is Macs keep their resale value and OS X has a utility for wiping the drive after you transfer it (also the transfer utility is AWESOME and makes the Windows file transfer wizard look like a sick joke by comparison) so it's not hard to start with the Mac that feels comfortable to you and incrementally upgrade from there.  I switched from PC in 2007 with a Mac Mini.  It was awesome so I upgraded to what was then the current iMac in 2008, then to my iMac that I have now in summer 2009.  Each time I sold off the old one on ebay and got a healthy chunk of its price back.  As a PC user for basically my whole life up to that point, I had never encountered anything like that.  You buy a PC, and in a year it's a doorstop.

The big downside is price.  Macs cost money, as you observed.  I'm finding that you do get what you pay for.  I will not switch back... everything just works so much better on the Mac.

One big adjustment was the basic command structure.  If you have worked with any Unix it will seem simple, but you do stuff like command-C instead of control-C to copy.  I know, people laugh, but this is a big change for a PC user who is used to doing it the other way without thinking.  But once you think about it you're like "wait, that makes MUCH more sense than control-C!"  That's kind of how all the adjustments are.  At first you're like WTF but then you realize it's much easier, more intuitive, and works better the OS X way.

And the Magic Mouse is amazing, and yes it has right-click.  Don't let the naysayers fool you with bad info.

Macs don't need AV software because there just aren't any viruses circulating for Mac, and because the basic way Unix works is different, it doesn't run off a registry and such.  Operations are self-contained.  So even if you did get a Mac virus, it would have a hard time doing anything.  And since the market is something like 88% Windows, 10% Mac, 2% Linux, the virus/malware/spyware authors don't split their time 88/10/2.  They just spend 100% of their time writing Windows viruses/malware/spyware because those give them the most possible machines to pwn.  Nobody wants to fight over the scraps.

I can't say enough of how much more solid mac computers are, and my only regret is not being able to afford one. I have used them in many a professional application and they are the best.

jdonoso

oh lol edit: I'm a computer scientist, and I got my first mac last year (24'' iMac). OSX is great but I can't get used the keyboard yet. I'm a  programmer so I code a lot and you need to know that the Home/End/Page up/Page Down keys don't work the same as in a PC and this is frustrating when coding.

Emacs is your friend:

home = ctrl-a
end = ctrl-e
page up = alt-v
page down = ctrl-v

And much more...

KS and RTG

+10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

Looks like that's the way to go.  Thanks to everyone who chimed in.  I need to do some price comparisons, but whenever the purchase does happen, it's probably going to be either a 15'' MBP or a 24''/27'' iMac.  Just depends on which one i can upgrade the most (since i can't do any upgrades down the line aside from buying a new Mac).

Hwangman


Looks like that's the way to go.  Thanks to everyone who chimed in.  I need to do some price comparisons, but whenever the purchase does happen, it's probably going to be either a 15'' MBP or a 24''/27'' iMac.  Just depends on which one i can upgrade the most (since i can't do any upgrades down the line aside from buying a new Mac).

I would urge you to to consider the hard drive spindle speed when you make your decision.  I am not sure if the MacBooks come with 7200RPM drives or not, but I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference in performance between a 5400RPM drive and a 7200RPM drive.  So the iMac (if you have really settled on Apple and the huge price tag they come with) is probably a better choice, unless you can get the laptop with a 7200RPM drive in it.

It's too bad this came up now, because I got rid of the MacBook Pro 17" laptop I had recently, since it was just collecting dust.

Just thought I'd throw my two cents in without engaging in any debate.  I was a long time 15 plus years PC user, and I was really hesitant to switch to Mac for fear of a learning curve.  I can say now that one year later all of those fears were unjustified. Macs have a few minor annoyances, but they only stand out because everything else is perfectly intuitive.  More to the point, after using a Mac for a while you start to realize how inefficient Windows really is.  It's also entertaining to check out Windows 7 and realize that all the amazing 'new' features it has are all things that Mac OS has been doing for the past 10 years, and the Windows implementation STILL isn't as good.  I guess I did engage with the debate a little...oops!

jdonoso


Don't get the iMac 27'' yet. It's first run had a lot of problems including defective LCD Panels that Apple didn't want to admit at first, but still sent memo's internally to convince unhappy customers to keep them.

More info here:

http://gizmodo.com/5478509/the-conclusion-to-the-faulty-imac-saga-the-beginning-of-the-fix

These problems have been resolved. The patch has been sent out, people all over the net are reporting the issue as resolved, and there are no more mysterious internal letters from Apple.

Mine should be here today. I'll report back if I just embarrassed myself! 
Oh, by the way. i7, 2TB, 8GB (4x2), 27", AppleCare. A fine beast.

Firestorm


It's also entertaining to check out Windows 7 and realize that all the amazing 'new' features it has are all things that Mac OS has been doing for the past 10 years, and the Windows implementation STILL isn't as good.  I guess I did engage with the debate a little...oops!

Yeah... And this is the case for Ubuntu as well. I was kind of surprised, when I checked out Windows 7 and they obviously didn't include tabs in folders.
Ubuntu has got that feature for 3 or 4 versions now...

I'm not pro or contra one of Windows, Mac or Ubuntu. All of them have good features and features they lack of. And it depends on the kind of work you do with your PC. If you are only doing office stuff and surfing basically I dare to say that you can use all three of them without having to fear any problems.
When you are a lot into gaming you should go for Windows I think...

josh_b55


Mine should be here today. I'll report back if I just embarrassed myself! 
Oh, by the way. i7, 2TB, 8GB (4x2), 27", AppleCare. A fine beast.

Wow... That sounds great!

Did you sell your house?!

Car?!

I recently switched back to Mac again.

I was PC...Then I got one of the Graphite iMacs from around 2001ish...then went back to PC for a couple of years and then just got a 21.5" iMac a couple of months ago...absolutely the most awesome decision ever.  I was going to get a 27" one, but in the end I decided that was just TOO big and I'd fatigue pretty easily as I sit quite close to my screen and when I do artwork I usually concentrate on certain areas rather than the whole screen.  So 21.5" has been AWESOME.

It's just brilliant...I can't believe when my old Mac died I went back to a PC again...well I CAN believe it because at the time Macs were STUPIDLY expensive.

I'm more than happy to pay what I paid for this iMac though...it's been amazing.

KirksNoseHair


I would urge you to to consider the hard drive spindle speed when you make your decision.  I am not sure if the MacBooks come with 7200RPM drives or not, but I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference in performance between a 5400RPM drive and a 7200RPM drive.  So the iMac (if you have really settled on Apple and the huge price tag they come with) is probably a better choice, unless you can get the laptop with a 7200RPM drive in it.

It's too bad this came up now, because I got rid of the MacBook Pro 17" laptop I had recently, since it was just collecting dust.

Damn!  Yeah, a 17'' version would have been sweet, though good call on the HDD speeds.  I definitely need 7200RPM.  Haven't decided on anything yet, but i should be doing so shortly.  I am going to give my PC rig one more chance.  I've had to reinstall the OS and all of my programs.  I'm going to try recording later this week/weekend, and i get tons of errors and crashing (like i did previously), it's Mac for me.  So sick of this not working.  I'm fine w/spending a little bit more if it's going to work and continue to work for years.

I loved my toshiba laptop and the windows XP it ran...LOVED it....

until...I'd download a service pack or an update and everything would just NOT work...a lot of my equipment did not have windows signed drivers and manufacturers were always late in getting updates...

This was only a problem with recording..and boy would it derail my mojo when I'd have to deal with this bullshit....I am not a computer guy and I'm sure others would have not had an issue but with me all I wanted to do was record...when I WANTED to....

solution...IMAC with VMware and pro copy of windows XP....the best of both worlds....

Unfortunately, an iMac w/the specs i want would cost roughly $2400.  I was hoping for under $2000.  Argh.

Hwangman

KirksNoseHair


I would urge you to to consider the hard drive spindle speed when you make your decision.  I am not sure if the MacBooks come with 7200RPM drives or not, but I can tell you that there is a HUGE difference in performance between a 5400RPM drive and a 7200RPM drive.  So the iMac (if you have really settled on Apple and the huge price tag they come with) is probably a better choice, unless you can get the laptop with a 7200RPM drive in it.

It's too bad this came up now, because I got rid of the MacBook Pro 17" laptop I had recently, since it was just collecting dust.

Damn!  Yeah, a 17'' version would have been sweet, though good call on the HDD speeds.  I definitely need 7200RPM.  Haven't decided on anything yet, but i should be doing so shortly.  I am going to give my PC rig one more chance.  I've had to reinstall the OS and all of my programs.  I'm going to try recording later this week/weekend, and i get tons of errors and crashing (like i did previously), it's Mac for me.  So sick of this not working.  I'm fine w/spending a little bit more if it's going to work and continue to work for years.

Well, let's be logical here for a moment.  If you're reloading a 2 or 3 year old PC and using that as the criteria by which to evaluate whether or not you should move on to a new Mac, what's the point?  Just go get the Mac, because clearly, you've decided the Windows machine sucks because you've been having tons of problems with it.  And that's perfectly understandable.  But from what I've seen here on the forum, you're pretty new to home recording technology, and it almost seems like you're kind of making a knee-jerk decision here because you've had problems with the PC....

I don't know what software you use to record.  I am a Cakewalk Sonar guy.  I use Cakewalk Sonar 8 producer edition on a Windows XP Pro machine.  I've got one project for my album that has over 45 tracks on it, and I have no problems at all.  No crashing, no latency, no blue screens, nothing.  Works flawlessly.

But that wasn't always the case.  On the studio PC I had prior to this one, I had nothing but problems.  Crashing, Blue Screens of Death, all kinds of latency, freezing, you name it.  And the PC was probably 3 years old.  So I went out and purchased a brand new PC for about $1200.  Pretty high-end HP desktop.  3.0 Ghz CPU, 16GB of memory, (4) 1TB 7200RPM SATA-300 Drives in a RAID 1+0 (mirror + stripe) configuration, Windows XP Pro 64bit, etc.....I load it all up with my software, I install my recording interface (I use the Delta 1010 recording interface, which uses a PCI card to connect the rack component to the PC).....so I get all this stuff loaded up, I open up one of my projects, I start working...and BAM!  Fucking blue screen of death!

I was PISSED!!!   I almost threw the computer out the damned window!

Turned everything off, left it alone for a few days.

Then I sent an email to Cakewalk technical support, describing my problem and the symptoms.  They replied with questions about my hardware.  I answered their questions.

The next day, I find out that on Dual Core CPUs, under certain conditions, you have to disable something called "Data Execution Prevention" for Cakewalk to function properly.

I did this and never had a problem again, neither on the original system that I spent $1200 to replace, nor on the new spiffy computer that I never really needed to purchase in the first place.

So anyway, my point is (and I know you've been battling this problem for a while now) just make sure you've covered all of the bases before you run out and plunk down a huge wad of cake on a new Mac.  If you've got your mind made up already (and that kind of sounds like the case) well, that's OK too, those iMacs are definitely extremely sweet machines, but they are ridiculously expensive and for the kind of money you'll spend on one of those, you could set yourself up with a really nice PC and not have to learn anything new or buy any new software.....

I won't bash the Macs, they are great.  Overpriced, but definitely high quality, and yes, they tend to be more stable than PCs in general. 

WilliamMunny


I loved my toshiba laptop and the windows XP it ran...LOVED it....

until...I'd download a service pack or an update and everything would just NOT work...a lot of my equipment did not have windows signed drivers and manufacturers were always late in getting updates...

This was only a problem with recording..and boy would it derail my mojo when I'd have to deal with this bullshit....I am not a computer guy and I'm sure others would have not had an issue but with me all I wanted to do was record...when I WANTED to....

solution...IMAC with VMware and pro copy of windows XP....the best of both worlds....

Here's what I do:  Once I have my studio PC working the way I need it to work, that's IT!  No downloads, no updates, nothing.  It's not even connected to the internet.  I have not had a single problem with it since I loaded it.  Because nothing has changed.  Because nothing needs to change, because it's not exposed to any threats, because I keep it isolated and off the internet.

By the way, this is what I use for my DAW, only I have the 64bit version and I added an SATA RAID controller, another 12GB of memory and the 4 one TB drives:
http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=10744521&cac=Result

You could have that for UNDER $2000, way under $2000

And then spend the $300 or $400 you save on a nice monitor like this one:
http://www.pcconnection.com/IPA/Shop/Product/Detail.htm?sku=10078311&cac=FeaturedSearch

KNH, insightful as usual.  Here's where i'm at:

I know my current rig either won't work or won't work properly.  I put over $1000 into it barely a year ago, so it's not a relic or obsolete.  I've also put several hundred dollars into my recording hardware and software.  It's a significant investment for me.

Now, based on people i know who do recording, producing, and engineering for a living, i'm sure that a Mac would work.  It's expensive, and i'm not a fan of that, but i know it would work, and that's the issue. 

I don't want to buy and build another custom PC and waste all that money if there's a chance i'll get the same problems.  Even if it's a cheaper initial investment, if i spent $1000 - $1500 on a new PC that crapped out on me, i'd be out a ton of cash and have nothing to show for it.  From what i've read, heard, and seen, i could spend a little more up front, but have a fully customized and optimized Mac that would handle any audio requests i throw at it w/o screwing up. 

I'm no Mac fanboy, and have tried everything i can to get good results out of my PC rig, but my motivation for recording has been completely wiped out by these constant problems.  It may be worth the extra cash if i can just sit down at a Mac and record whenever i want w/o blue screens, freezes, critical errors, random reboots, etc.

I consider my iMac my secret lover - it's that good indeed. 

Hwangman


KNH, insightful as usual.  Here's where i'm at:

I know my current rig either won't work or won't work properly.  I put over $1000 into it barely a year ago, so it's not a relic or obsolete.  I've also put several hundred dollars into my recording hardware and software.  It's a significant investment for me.
Damn, that's a drag, and yeah, if it's only a year old, it should definitely work right. 

Hwangman

Now, based on people i know who do recording, producing, and engineering for a living, i'm sure that a Mac would work.  It's expensive, and i'm not a fan of that, but i know it would work, and that's the issue. 

Well, yeah, it would work.  But the question is (using an analogy):  Should you purchase a BMW because you can't figure out a problem with your Chevy?  Know what I mean?  But I definitely get the frustration, my man.  Been there, done that.

Hwangman

I don't want to buy and build another custom PC and waste all that money if there's a chance i'll get the same problems.  Even if it's a cheaper initial investment, if i spent $1000 - $1500 on a new PC that crapped out on me, i'd be out a ton of cash and have nothing to show for it.  From what i've read, heard, and seen, i could spend a little more up front, but have a fully customized and optimized Mac that would handle any audio requests i throw at it w/o screwing up. 

Understood, and your logic is quite sound. 

Hwangman

I'm no Mac fanboy, and have tried everything i can to get good results out of my PC rig, but my motivation for recording has been completely wiped out by these constant problems.  It may be worth the extra cash if i can just sit down at a Mac and record whenever i want w/o blue screens, freezes, critical errors, random reboots, etc.

Man, I can really relate to this.  When I was having all of those problems with my other PC, it really took all of the pleasure out of doing any recording.  Nothing is worse than having constant problems with something like that, especially when you're kind of new to all of it.

So, how are you going to deal with it?  Are you just going to bite the bullet and spend the $2400 or are you going to settle on a lower-end system for less money?

Also, just curious, but what is the software you are using?  ProTools?

i have the iMac 27" and the thing is simply SkyNet jr. it's UNREAL!

my only complaint, which i hope to clear up soon, is i can't get the magic mouse to work in windows xp via bootcamp. i tried customer support last night and they need a few days to figure out.

other than that tho...i get a lil moist every time i sit down at that thing...

I'm using Reaper as my primary DAW, but i've also tried Ableton Live and Cakewalk on the same rig.  The problem i was having was across all the DAW's.

As for your car analogy, i wouldn't jump to the most expensive choice as a knee jerk reaction, but if my Chevy had problems for months and months and i had already sank a decent chunk of $$ into it, and then i saw/read nothing but glowing reviews for a slightly more expensive car company, and i knew it worked for specifically what i wanted, then i don't think that's unreasonable. 

Like i said, it's possible that i could build another rig w/upgraded specs, but that's minimum $1000 for the type of processor, HDD, and RAM that i want.  That still doesn't guarantee success, as i've had friends experience problems recording audio on their (very nice and pricey) PC rigs.  Since i'm going to have to spend some serious cash either way, i'm just thinking it makes more sense to try something that is guaranteed to work and is in many ways made for the type of stuff i want to do.

I'll go on Newegg and price out some PC components this week.  I am curious to see how much it would ultimately cost to upgrade/replace my PC w/another PC.

I think the key is research, Hwangman. For every piece of hardware you consider, google to see if people have had problems running your DAW  with it. I guarantee that if someone has had a problem, then they've complained about it online.

True.  If i could upgrade my rig for under $500, i'd consider it, but i would need to get a new mobo, processor, RAM, and a couple HDD's. 

I'll see what some googling gets me.

Hwangman


I'm using Reaper as my primary DAW, but i've also tried Ableton Live and Cakewalk on the same rig.  The problem i was having was across all the DAW's.

As for your car analogy, i wouldn't jump to the most expensive choice as a knee jerk reaction, but if my Chevy had problems for months and months and i had already sank a decent chunk of $$ into it, and then i saw/read nothing but glowing reviews for a slightly more expensive car company, and i knew it worked for specifically what i wanted, then i don't think that's unreasonable. 

Like i said, it's possible that i could build another rig w/upgraded specs, but that's minimum $1000 for the type of processor, HDD, and RAM that i want.  That still doesn't guarantee success, as i've had friends experience problems recording audio on their (very nice and pricey) PC rigs.  Since i'm going to have to spend some serious cash either way, i'm just thinking it makes more sense to try something that is guaranteed to work and is in many ways made for the type of stuff i want to do.

I'll go on Newegg and price out some PC components this week.  I am curious to see how much it would ultimately cost to upgrade/replace my PC w/another PC.

Why not just buy a PC?  I've gotta tell you man, the vast overwhelming majority of PC problems like this that I encounter are with systems that people insist on building themselves.  What's the point?  You don't really save much money at all nowadays and you end up with the possibility of components that don't really work together. (as you've already seen).  You buy a name-brand, at least you are guaranteed that all of the components work together. 

I am almost positive that your problems are related to some compatibility issue between a couple of the components on your current system.  If you're really thinking about another PC, my advise would be to just buy a PC, from a reputable manufacturer, (HP/Dell/Sony, whatever - I recommend HP) then at least you have someone to go to when there are problems.