When I listen to the instrumental disc I am surprised how much I miss James, and it has come to make me really appreciate what he brings to the experience. And when I try to sing the vox myself, I find it very hard to sound anywhere near as good as him! What do you think? Has hearing tracks that originally have vocals on them played as instrumental tracks make you miss James? Or do you want more instrumental? Or are you simply able to appreciated each as its own unique entity?

The thing for me is that it isn't just about James' vocals. There are other little things in the instrumental versions of the tracks that seem to be missing from the original songs, so I usually just stick to the regular version.

This is a good point, with the leads/solo's being omitted from the instrumental tracks. If possible, I'd like to focus the poll to the vocal factor.

I always appreciated James, so the lack of him doesn't make me appreciate him more. i tend not to listen to the Instrumental versions so often though.

The instrumental tracks have increased my desire for better lyrics.

I listened to the instrumental, and thought it was pretty boring.
JLB all the way baby.

Neither, I can enjoy both as seperate experiences.

Nice poll :)

Never even once spun the instrumental disc.

Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

funny thing, I only listened to maybe 2 tracks of the instrumental CD< and I went straight back to the standard disc because without James's voice, it felt like the songs were missing somthing after hearing them so often with his vocals.

It's a cool idea to add an instrumental CD without vocals, but I kinda feel the instrumental tracks are a bit pointless unless they were written to be instrumental where an instrument or 2 or three would fill in that space that normally would be filled by vocals.

It's not like Erotomania, or Ytse Jam, or Hells Kitchen, where the way the songs were written as instrumentals.

Bought it only because I'm a completist. The producer's CD of the separate tracking interests me more. (Ironically, the only ones I listen to are James' tracks.)

James makes Dream Theater for me. (Especially on some of these tracks)
That doesn't mean I don't like the instrumentals, but none of these songs were supposed to be that. Maybe some enjoy them, but I can't really say I've ever been compelled to listen to it. (Not that I haven't spun it. But I've never gotten past 5 minutes of a song... Which is usually when James would come in!)

What really made me appreciate his vocals were some of the covers on the special edition disc.  He did great on the Queen cover, and although I've never heard the Zebra song, I liked it very much along with his vocals.

But for stuff like classic Metallica I don't think they match very well... >_>

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

MIKE'S lyrics?  You listen to BC&SL and it's MIKE'S lyrics that bother you?  What about The Count of Tuscany, did you hear that one (no offense to the tune, but the lyrics are pretty awful if you don't know exactly what's going on)?  I thought all Mike's lyrics on this album were great, and John Petrucci took a massive plunge in lyrical quality, with the exception of Wither and the middle section of A Nightmare to Remember.

LET MEH INTRODEUCE
MAH BRU-THAH!

But, on topic with the thread, I like the instrumentals until the fact that there's not just no solos, there are no leads at all.  It makes the Count of Tuscany intro sound kind of hollow, which is sad, because that's probably some of the best stuff on the album.  Still, "The Shattered Fortress" instrumental sounds like it should be a Final Boss song.  It's awesome.

Frunobulax

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

MIKE'S lyrics?  You listen to BC&SL and it's MIKE'S lyrics that bother you?

Actually, it's just The Best of Times lyrics that bother me, the rest are fine.  This song could have easily been called "Days and Days of Days in a Daze on a Dais".  I know, it's day-iss, but looks funny anyway. 
 
Remember days of yesterday   (the first line starts our days' journey o'cringe)
And how it flew so fast
The two score and a year we had,
I thought would always last
The summer days and west coast dreams,   (some more days)
I wished would never end
A young boy and his father,
Idol and best friend

...

The fleeting winds of time
Flying through each day   (another day)
All the things I should have done
But time just slipped away
Remember "seize the day"   (another diem)
Life goes by in the blink of an eye
There's so much left to say

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (day rhyming with days... C'MON, MAN!)

...

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (see above comment)
My heart is bleeding bad   ("bleeding bad" hurts also)
But I'll be okay
Your spirit guides my life each day   (3x the day in one section?)
 
 
Considering the topic of the lyrics I'd have hoped more thought would have gone into them.  Too bad we won't hear a live version of this for some time as it'll be awesome to sit through even just to hear JP's final lead.

PetFish

Frunobulax

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

MIKE'S lyrics?  You listen to BC&SL and it's MIKE'S lyrics that bother you?

Actually, it's just The Best of Times lyrics that bother me, the rest are fine.  This song could have easily been called "Days and Days of Days in a Daze on a Dais".  I know, it's day-iss, but looks funny anyway. 
 
Remember days of yesterday   (the first line starts our days' journey o'cringe)
And how it flew so fast
The two score and a year we had,
I thought would always last
The summer days and west coast dreams,   (some more days)
I wished would never end
A young boy and his father,
Idol and best friend

...

The fleeting winds of time
Flying through each day   (another day)
All the things I should have done
But time just slipped away
Remember "seize the day"   (another diem)
Life goes by in the blink of an eye
There's so much left to say

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (day rhyming with days... C'MON, MAN!)

...

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (see above comment)
My heart is bleeding bad   ("bleeding bad" hurts also)
But I'll be okay
Your spirit guides my life each day   (3x the day in one section?)
 
 
Considering the topic of the lyrics I'd have hoped more thought would have gone into them.  Too bad we won't hear a live version of this for some time as it'll be awesome to sit through even just to hear JP's final lead.

What do you think of the actual vocal performance, though?

DT wouldn't be DT without Kevin James .
That's why they aren't good as they were say 4-5 years ago . JLB got less involved with the lyrics and signing itself , and IMO he changed a bit how he signs , which disappoints me a bit . But hey , He's 45-46 , had a fucked up throat and he can still sing high notes like back in the days . Props to you James .

PetFish

Frunobulax

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

MIKE'S lyrics?  You listen to BC&SL and it's MIKE'S lyrics that bother you?

Actually, it's just The Best of Times lyrics that bother me, the rest are fine.  This song could have easily been called "Days and Days of Days in a Daze on a Dais".  I know, it's day-iss, but looks funny anyway. 
 
Remember days of yesterday   (the first line starts our days' journey o'cringe)
And how it flew so fast
The two score and a year we had,
I thought would always last
The summer days and west coast dreams,   (some more days)
I wished would never end
A young boy and his father,
Idol and best friend

...

The fleeting winds of time
Flying through each day   (another day)
All the things I should have done
But time just slipped away
Remember "seize the day"   (another diem)
Life goes by in the blink of an eye
There's so much left to say

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (day rhyming with days... C'MON, MAN!)

...

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (see above comment)
My heart is bleeding bad   ("bleeding bad" hurts also)
But I'll be okay
Your spirit guides my life each day   (3x the day in one section?)
 
 
Considering the topic of the lyrics I'd have hoped more thought would have gone into them.  Too bad we won't hear a live version of this for some time as it'll be awesome to sit through even just to hear JP's final lead.

Embarrassingly Cringeworthy??
More thought??
 
PetFish, you get the award for BIGGEST ASSHOLE to ever post on my Forum...
You can hate me for saying that, you can boycott me, you can hang up your hat forever as a DT fan for all I care...
 
I have never been so personally insulted before on my own site...
 
This song is one of the most heart-felt, powerful and personal lyrics I have ever written...it brings me to tears everytime I hear it.
 
I sat at my father's bedside while he was dying and played him this song and we cried like babies while holding hands listening to it....
AND HE LOVED IT!
It was the greatest gift I was ever given and a moment I will never EVER forget...
 
I had a similar experience when playing the song at my dad's funeral...
There was not a dry eye in the room...I had to watch my daughter cry hysterically because the song was so emotional to listen to...
 
And you come in here on your high horse and criticize & insult me...saying I didnt put enough THOUGHT into it????
F*CK YOU!!!
 
I know the fans are gonna now come to your defense because I am now personally insulting you and using profanity (awwww...poor baby...)....trust me, I can take criticism over my lyrics and other matters...but this particular subject is where I draw the line and will not take the abuse and insensitive, personal insults like you displayed with your comments....
 
You can could have easily not said anything knowing how dear this song was to me...
 
If anything, please dont ever listen to this song again....you DONT DESERVE IT!!
I am fine knowing this song was written for myself, my dad and my family to share....not for critical, undeserving, heartless "fans" like yourself...
 
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out PetDick....
 
MP
 
 

That even made me sad.

One up for James from me. Love the dude.

http://media.urbandictionary.com/image/large/pwnt-31487.jpg

Good god man... Some people really should learn the definition of "TACT" and practice it sometime!!! Considering the reason this song was written - you couldn't just hold your opinion to yourself? Cold hearted man. Extremely cold hearted!

Damn, didn;t notice Mike's post. I've never directly posted anything to you Mike on here. But this fucking ruined my night. Wow what the fuck. Don't let this shit get to you (though I know it has cause WTF! no way can it not) But know that you got fans that are with ya and there are many of us that are touched by your lyrics. Specially ones like in the song at hand. I can only imagine how much this song will hit me when I lose my father in the future.

 But your AA saga has hit me since Glass Prison for that is a battle I've been fighting myself and your lyrics have kept me at bay.

Portnoy

 

I know the fans are gonna now come to your defense because I am now personally insulting you and using profanity (awwww...poor baby...)....trust me, I can take criticism over my lyrics and other matters

/quote
I won't be coming to the defense of this guy anytime soon Mike, and I don't think I'm alone. For many of us this song is almost as personal and life touching as it is for you. To hear someone blast it insults us as well. Keep writing these amazingly personal and beautiful lyrics, Mike. It's what makes you, you, and what makes DT, DT.
 
I love everything about this song.

Oh no, what have I done.
 
I hope nobody comes to my defense as I don't deserve any.

I am truly sorry.  I cannot express how terrible I feel for insulting you, Mike, really.  I never meant any harm, I just thought we were discussing lyrics and vocal performances but I obviously took it too far.

I need to take some time to think about what I want and need to say about this.  I'll be back in a while.

PS - The actual vocal performances on this track, both by James and Mike, are great.

Can't say we didn't see that coming.

My two cents, or more likely my wife's two cents on the Best of Times, she's a hater... a hater of the fact that she didn't get to hear it live in Sydney (Which put me into explanation mode of why it wouldn't get played)! 

Her dad passed away a month ago and this song was perfect to her even though the lyrics were obviously Mike's personal ones.  So in the end she got to share something personal in a distant way... and i'm so glad that this song came out when it could have been something just between a dude and his father.

when i read the first post criticizing best of times I knew this wasn't going to go too well, kinda thought that everyone would jump on the problem before Mike read through the thread (which is usually what happens.)

I often kinda wondered if Mike had considered not putting out this tune, knowing that DT fans take apart music and have opinions on everything in their music.

also, Mike if you read this thread any further: I personally don't say much around here (101 posts in 6 and a half years.) Whenever things like this happen it feels weird because a lot of people seem to either kiss ass or come to someone's defense but I think I can speak for everyone here (including Petfish) :

We really do appreciate everything from unique setlists, side projects, ytsejam bootlegs, you posting on your website, and all the fan interaction. While im sure you already know all of this, Its just something worth saying/hearing, so thanks for doing more for us than pretty much any other musician/artist/celeb out there.

Portnoy

PetFish

Frunobulax

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

MIKE'S lyrics?  You listen to BC&SL and it's MIKE'S lyrics that bother you?

Actually, it's just The Best of Times lyrics that bother me, the rest are fine.  This song could have easily been called "Days and Days of Days in a Daze on a Dais".  I know, it's day-iss, but looks funny anyway. 
 
Remember days of yesterday   (the first line starts our days' journey o'cringe)
And how it flew so fast
The two score and a year we had,
I thought would always last
The summer days and west coast dreams,   (some more days)
I wished would never end
A young boy and his father,
Idol and best friend

...

The fleeting winds of time
Flying through each day   (another day)
All the things I should have done
But time just slipped away
Remember "seize the day"   (another diem)
Life goes by in the blink of an eye
There's so much left to say

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (day rhyming with days... C'MON, MAN!)

...

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (see above comment)
My heart is bleeding bad   ("bleeding bad" hurts also)
But I'll be okay
Your spirit guides my life each day   (3x the day in one section?)
 
 
Considering the topic of the lyrics I'd have hoped more thought would have gone into them.  Too bad we won't hear a live version of this for some time as it'll be awesome to sit through even just to hear JP's final lead.

Embarrassingly Cringeworthy??
More thought??
 
PetFish, you get the award for BIGGEST ASSHOLE to ever post on my Forum...
You can hate me for saying that, you can boycott me, you can hang up your hat forever as a DT fan for all I care...
 
I have never been so personally insulted before on my own site...
 
This song is one of the most heart-felt, powerful and personal lyrics I have ever written...it brings me to tears everytime I hear it.
 
I sat at my father's bedside while he was dying and played him this song and we cried like babies while holding hands listening to it....
AND HE LOVED IT!
It was the greatest gift I was ever given and a moment I will never EVER forget...
 
I had a similar experience when playing the song at my dad's funeral...
There was not a dry eye in the room...I had to watch my daughter cry hysterically because the song was so emotional to listen to...
 
And you come in here on your high horse and criticize & insult me...saying I didnt put enough THOUGHT into it????
F*CK YOU!!!
 
I know the fans are gonna now come to your defense because I am now personally insulting you and using profanity (awwww...poor baby...)....trust me, I can take criticism over my lyrics and other matters...but this particular subject is where I draw the line and will not take the abuse and insensitive, personal insults like you displayed with your comments....
 
You can could have easily not said anything knowing how dear this song was to me...
 
If anything, please dont ever listen to this song again....you DONT DESERVE IT!!
I am fine knowing this song was written for myself, my dad and my family to share....not for critical, undeserving, heartless "fans" like yourself...
 
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out PetDick....
 
MP
 
 

Mike, I hope you play it tonight in Melbourne. I hope you sing it too like on the demo.
 
I hope you hear me screaming out the lyrics from the balcony.
 
Petfish, I hope you take your post and ram it up your snout.

Mike,

I don't think I could possibly feel any lower than I do right now.

You and Dream Theater have been one of the only things in my life that have been consistently great over the years.  I've been able to follow you since 1991 when my lame band covered "Pull Me Under" cuz my drummer wanted to and I had never heard of you before.  Your history has inspired me to try and do the right thing and stick-to-it at all times.  The fact that you guys made it through the bad times and you made it through your addictions is phenomenal and the fact that your success is growing is testament to that.  You've fought through a lot of criticisms and idiot posts on your forum and I can't believe I am now a part of that pathetic group.

I've met you at a few shows and I've been a diehard fan for years (DT website, CD/desktop artwork, video projects, and such) but that doesn't excuse what I said.  I really don't know why I wrote what I did, sure I was feeling that way, but to air it out here was 100% wrong of me.  If I get the chance to meet you again I'll introduce myself and look you in the eye and "man up" and apologize whole-heartedly in person... text just can't get across properly the emotions needed to say many things, especially important things like this.

I still have both my parents (knock on wood) and I obviously can't relate to what you're going through so I had no right to criticisize something I don't fully understand.  I'm not a jerk or an asshole, I rarely even swear, and I always try and treat people how I'd want to be treated.  Thinking about it now if someone had said what I said after I lost a parent I'd react exactly as you did.

If I have to live with the fact that I've posted the worst insult to you ever then that's what I'll do.  I never thought I would ever make you or anyone else in DT feel this way, it's just not my character at all, and that's a terrible part of this whole situation... I went OUT of my normal character just to say something like this.  My history has shown that I never get involved with these kinds of issues as it just ends up badly for everyone involved.

I'll do whatever it takes to make things right, Mike, and if you hate me forever then that's a tragic consequence I have nobody to blame for but myself.

I just don't know if I can say enough words or apologize enough but I hope you can forgive me.

Respectfully and humbly yours, Erik.

Changing the subject back to what this topic was about!!!!

I like the instrumental track to hear what JP does more in depth (guitar player) and sometimes when learning a song some notes can be missed due to having vocals, so i have taken the Instrumental disc as a s tudy disc to perfect the playing on BCSL

but after learning the songs, you just HAVE to have James on top the songs sound empty without the traditional sound of James's voice on the top

^

Ya we know your sorry and shit....but, if this was any else that you insulted other than Mike, you wouldn't write that huge ass apology.

Stop trying to kiss ass


EDIT: directed at PetFish..obviously..

Ouch. I'd really hate to be Petfish right now. What a total burn.

PetFish


Mike,

I don't think I could possibly feel any lower than I do right now.

You and Dream Theater have been one of the only things in my life that have been consistently great over the years.  I've been able to follow you since 1991 when my lame band covered "Pull Me Under" cuz my drummer wanted to and I had never heard of you before.  Your history has inspired me to try and do the right thing and stick-to-it at all times.  The fact that you guys made it through the bad times and you made it through your addictions is phenomenal and the fact that your success is growing is testament to that.  You've fought through a lot of criticisms and idiot posts on your forum and I can't believe I am now a part of that pathetic group.

I've met you at a few shows and I've been a diehard fan for years (DT website, CD/desktop artwork, video projects, and such) but that doesn't excuse what I said.  I really don't know why I wrote what I did, sure I was feeling that way, but to air it out here was 100% wrong of me.  If I get the chance to meet you again I'll introduce myself and look you in the eye and "man up" and apologize whole-heartedly in person... text just can't get across properly the emotions needed to say many things, especially important things like this.

I still have both my parents (knock on wood) and I obviously can't relate to what you're going through so I had no right to criticisize something I don't fully understand.  I'm not a jerk or an asshole, I rarely even swear, and I always try and treat people how I'd want to be treated.  Thinking about it now if someone had said what I said after I lost a parent I'd react exactly as you did.

If I have to live with the fact that I've posted the worst insult to you ever then that's what I'll do.  I never thought I would ever make you or anyone else in DT feel this way, it's just not my character at all, and that's a terrible part of this whole situation... I went OUT of my normal character just to say something like this.  My history has shown that I never get involved with these kinds of issues as it just ends up badly for everyone involved.

I'll do whatever it takes to make things right, Mike, and if you hate me forever then that's a tragic consequence I have nobody to blame for but myself.

I just don't know if I can say enough words or apologize enough but I hope you can forgive me.

Respectfully and humbly yours, Erik.

I wouldn't expect him to accept your apology. I do feel bad for you though dude, but I probably would have reacted the same way as MP did because it was a dick move on your part. I get it that you were just being critical because I'm the same way. But you just picked the wrong song to be critical towards. I'm trying to come up with something to make you feel better, but I just can't. At least you admitted your fault. Hang in there.

Sorry for the double post.

Frunobulax

What about The Count of Tuscany, did you hear that one (no offense to the tune, but the lyrics are pretty awful if you don't know exactly what's going on)?  

This just goes to show how subjective and personal music is.  This is one of my favorite songs on the album.  When I put the headphones on it plays out in my head like a freaking movie.

Apology or not, I'm pretty astounded at the level of Mike/DT focused negativity around here lately.

I guess it just goes to show that people really loose a lot of the courtesy I would hope they would normally have on the internet.

Seriously...what the hell

I can't imagine something like that being said to someone I know and it is really astounding that the technology through which we communicate allows us the courage to say things like that to people we claim to respect.  Sorry...I only assume that something like that would never be said in first person.




fucking sad.

James is the signature of the band, no doubt..

camando133


Apology or not, I'm pretty astounded at the level of Mike/DT focused negativity around here lately.

I guess it just goes to show that people really loose a lot of the courtesy I would hope they would normally have on the internet.

Seriously...what the hell

I can't imagine something like that being said to someone I know and it is really astounding that the technology through which we communicate allows us the courage to say things like that to people we claim to respect.  Sorry...I only assume that something like that would never be said in first person.




fucking sad.

It's not so much courage as it is respect. The moment people get on the internet they somehow seem to forget that everyone else is real.