ganpondorodf


The phrase "clusterfuck" ceases to be adequate, wow.

I prefer listening to the full version, vox, solos and all.  I think James sounds terrific on Black Clouds...  "Fly now be FRAAAAAAYY!" is an obvious highlight.  I normally don't like "woaaah" type wordless singing, but the final vocal bit on The Count of Tuscany is brilliant.

Couldn't have said that first bit better meself... this thread is... ouch... to behold.  I just want to say, MP was totally justified flipping out, in my opinion.  But I won't delve further into that touchy matter.

But back on the real topic, I also agree with the second part.  The "woaah" type vocals, as you referred to them, I felt were kind of an awkward ending to the 12-step-suite, I think it should have ended on the much more awesome note of "I WANT MAH HAAAAAND TO BEE THEEEERE!"  But I agree, they fit for TCoT.

P.S. what I said before about The Count of Tuscany's lyrics being "horrible", you'll notice I said horrible "if you don't know what's going on."  If you actually know what the hell it's talking about then you're like "OHHH" and they're not as awkward.  Still, for a song so long and epic, I expected the subject matter to a bit more... awesome.  I dunno, they're alright, and instrumentally the song is unbelievable, I've come to expect more from JP's lyrics, especially after the epic awesome that was In the Presence of Enemies.

As for the rest of the album's lyrics, I like, especially Mike's.  Both The Shattered Fortress and The Best of Times are some of Mike's best in years, lyric-wise, but as I think I said before, JP's got Wither going for him, and I adore the middle section of A Nightmare to Remember (aka The "Hospital" part.)

Despite this, I actually do enjoy listening to the instrumental mixes every now and then.  I can Jordan better and I like that.

Taffer

Also it gave me chuckles to hear me try to replace Labrie's vocals - you think you're a great singer until you have to sing it yourself!!! lol

You're not alone!

Frunobulax

the epic awesome that was In the Presence of Enemies.

Also The Ministry Of Lost Souls was a great masterpices by JP. IF anyone didn't reach his creative peak lyricswise on BC&SL, it MIGHT have been JP in AROP or TCoT. (And this my personal opinion, which I hope can be written here without insulting anyone since we're all here because we're devoted to the same music. We only share different thoughts about details - but if this would not be allowed, what would keep us together?)

cosmotobe

Taffer

Also it gave me chuckles to hear me try to replace Labrie's vocals - you think you're a great singer until you have to sing it yourself!!! lol

You're not alone!

Frunobulax

the epic awesome that was In the Presence of Enemies.

Also The Ministry Of Lost Souls was a great masterpices by JP. IF anyone didn't reach his creative peak lyricswise on BC&SL, it MIGHT have been JP in AROP or TCoT. (And this my personal opinion which I hope can be written here without insulting anyone since we're all here because we're devoted to the same music. We only share different thoughts about details - but if this would not be allowed, what would keep us together?)

!!!!

How did I forget that?  I love The Ministry of Lost Souls, I do not listen to it nearly often enough.  I think that song is one of those songs that only JLB can sing.  I can't picture anyone else pulling that song off effectively, vocally.  Excellent, James.  Just excellent.

Good for you Portnoy for letting him have it!  What the hell is wrong with people these days.  I just want to give you a big thanks for when you had your father on the commentary track of the Yellow Matter Custard DVD.  It was like watching the DVD with the two of you, and that was a special moment for some of us fans.   Thanks for sharing him, and your most heartfelt moments with us.

more thought Petfish!!!!!!!!!!

I feel for you mike. I had my mum pass away and you know what go me through it?......your music!!!!! DT is the healing i need. Thankyou for sharing with us your journey with your dad!!!!

Portnoy

PetFish

Frunobulax

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

MIKE'S lyrics?  You listen to BC&SL and it's MIKE'S lyrics that bother you?

Actually, it's just The Best of Times lyrics that bother me, the rest are fine.  This song could have easily been called "Days and Days of Days in a Daze on a Dais".  I know, it's day-iss, but looks funny anyway. 
 
Remember days of yesterday   (the first line starts our days' journey o'cringe)
And how it flew so fast
The two score and a year we had,
I thought would always last
The summer days and west coast dreams,   (some more days)
I wished would never end
A young boy and his father,
Idol and best friend

...

The fleeting winds of time
Flying through each day   (another day)
All the things I should have done
But time just slipped away
Remember "seize the day"   (another diem)
Life goes by in the blink of an eye
There's so much left to say

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (day rhyming with days... C'MON, MAN!)

...

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (see above comment)
My heart is bleeding bad   ("bleeding bad" hurts also)
But I'll be okay
Your spirit guides my life each day   (3x the day in one section?)
 
 
Considering the topic of the lyrics I'd have hoped more thought would have gone into them.  Too bad we won't hear a live version of this for some time as it'll be awesome to sit through even just to hear JP's final lead.

Embarrassingly Cringeworthy??
More thought??
 
PetFish, you get the award for BIGGEST ASSHOLE to ever post on my Forum...
You can hate me for saying that, you can boycott me, you can hang up your hat forever as a DT fan for all I care...
 
I have never been so personally insulted before on my own site...
 
This song is one of the most heart-felt, powerful and personal lyrics I have ever written...it brings me to tears everytime I hear it.
 
I sat at my father's bedside while he was dying and played him this song and we cried like babies while holding hands listening to it....
AND HE LOVED IT!
It was the greatest gift I was ever given and a moment I will never EVER forget...
 
I had a similar experience when playing the song at my dad's funeral...
There was not a dry eye in the room...I had to watch my daughter cry hysterically because the song was so emotional to listen to...
 
And you come in here on your high horse and criticize & insult me...saying I didnt put enough THOUGHT into it????
F*CK YOU!!!
 
I know the fans are gonna now come to your defense because I am now personally insulting you and using profanity (awwww...poor baby...)....trust me, I can take criticism over my lyrics and other matters...but this particular subject is where I draw the line and will not take the abuse and insensitive, personal insults like you displayed with your comments....
 
You can could have easily not said anything knowing how dear this song was to me...
 
If anything, please dont ever listen to this song again....you DONT DESERVE IT!!
I am fine knowing this song was written for myself, my dad and my family to share....not for critical, undeserving, heartless "fans" like yourself...
 
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out PetDick....
 
MP
 
 
I made a post when BC&SL came out, I wrote thanking mike for the best of times music and especially lyrics, Thanks to him I've reconnected with my dad!!!!. If it had not been for mike's heartfelt lyrics I wouldn't have called my dad and now share a brand new relationship with him. Thank you Mike

SonorSam


Yes, while what PetFish said was a bit insensitive considering the nature of this song, I highly doubt people would be reacting this way if Mike himself had not vented first.

I imagine if this was a song written and posted by a forumer with the subject exactly the same the reaction would be the same.

Frunobulax




P.S. what I said before about The Count of Tuscany's lyrics being "horrible", you'll notice I said horrible "if you don't know what's going on."  If you actually know what the hell it's talking about then you're like "OHHH" and they're not as awkward.  Still, for a song so long and epic, I expected the subject matter to a bit more... awesome.  I dunno, they're alright, and instrumentally the song is unbelievable, I've come to expect more from JP's lyrics, especially after the epic awesome that was In the Presence of Enemies.

This.

JP has some of the coolest lyrics from WDADU up to SC.  I could always count on him to have some of the most subtle yet beautiful lyrics.  JM and JLB's lyrics always stand out, possibly because they write so few songs, but JP's have always been kind of a masterpiece taken for granted.

Yet with TCoT he delves into blunt lyrics that just are comical.  I mean, I am not intrigued in the least about meeting a dude who wants to take you on a ride and then he's like, "Oh, my brother is a cannibal" and they're like "whoa" and then he's like "yeah" and they're like, "Holy fuck he's going to kill us"

Quoi?  Seriously?

..and people obviously didn't bother to read my post about on going personal attacks.

If the best of times is has a message , it isn´t about the fucking rhyme . Now I know there are  DT fans who can´t see an inch away from their nose . I think the song is great , . If I made a grammar mistake , deal with it . btw , MIKE ROCKS

is has = has

My .02 is as follows:
 How much wood could a Woodchuck chuck, if a Woodchuck could chuck wood??

Madman Shepherd

Frunobulax




P.S. what I said before about The Count of Tuscany's lyrics being "horrible", you'll notice I said horrible "if you don't know what's going on."  If you actually know what the hell it's talking about then you're like "OHHH" and they're not as awkward.  Still, for a song so long and epic, I expected the subject matter to a bit more... awesome.  I dunno, they're alright, and instrumentally the song is unbelievable, I've come to expect more from JP's lyrics, especially after the epic awesome that was In the Presence of Enemies.

This.

JP has some of the coolest lyrics from WDADU up to SC.  I could always count on him to have some of the most subtle yet beautiful lyrics.  JM and JLB's lyrics always stand out, possibly because they write so few songs, but JP's have always been kind of a masterpiece taken for granted.

Yet with TCoT he delves into blunt lyrics that just are comical.  I mean, I am not intrigued in the least about meeting a dude who wants to take you on a ride and then he's like, "Oh, my brother is a cannibal" and they're like "whoa" and then he's like "yeah" and they're like, "Holy fuck he's going to kill us"

Quoi?  Seriously?

I mean, to hear the exact backstory you go like "Ahhh."

I will admit, it must have been a really weird experience.  Especially the thing with the soldiers and the barrels and stuff.  But weird to the point that it's worthy of the "epic" on the album?  Not in my personal opinion.  Still a good song, but lyric-wise... meh.

Seacraft


My .02 is as follows:
 How much wood could a Woodchuck chuck, if a Woodchuck could chuck wood??

Using the formula: (W + I) * C where W = the constant of wood, which is well known to be 61, as agreed in many scientific circles. I = the variable in this equation, and stands for the word "if" from the original problem. As there are three circumstances, with 0 equaling the chance that the woodchuck cannot chuck wood, 1 being the theory that the woodchuck can chuck wood but chooses not to, and 2 standing for the probability that the woodchuck can and will chuck wood, we clearly must choose 2 for use in this equation. C = the constant of Chuck Norris, whose presence in any problem involving the word chuck must there, is well known to equal 1.1 of any known being, therefore the final part of this calculation is 1.1. As is clear, this appears to give the answer of (61 + 2) * 1.1 = (63) * 1.1 = 69.3 units of wood.

I just logged in to say, "Wow PetFish, what were you thinking?"

Let us know how your next meet n greet with MP goes...

Legenday pitcher Goose Gossage would like to chime in:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r75KU9reHAs

was there a DT show tonight? not gonna lie im curious to know what the setlist might have been.

Weymolith

Seacraft


My .02 is as follows:
How much wood could a Woodchuck chuck, if a Woodchuck could chuck wood??

Using the formula: (W + I) * C where W = the constant of wood, which is well known to be 61, as agreed in many scientific circles. I = the variable in this equation, and stands for the word "if" from the original problem. As there are three circumstances, with 0 equaling the chance that the woodchuck cannot chuck wood, 1 being the theory that the woodchuck can chuck wood but chooses not to, and 2 standing for the probability that the woodchuck can and will chuck wood, we clearly must choose 2 for use in this equation. C = the constant of Chuck Norris, whose presence in any problem involving the word chuck must there, is well known to equal 1.1 of any known being, therefore the final part of this calculation is 1.1. As is clear, this appears to give the answer of (61 + 2) * 1.1 = (63) * 1.1 = 69.3 units of wood.

 

The Best of Times makes me cry every time I hear it, with such joy.  It's such an uplifting song.  I'm sorry about your dad Mike, and I bet he loved this song.  I think about my dad every time and it makes me want to spend as much time with him as I can.  Love ya Mike, I hope all is well.

PetFish

Many times , anathomy isn't the way to look.

Such a shame....such a shame that Mike needs to defend himself (AGAIN !!!!), his lyrics or whatever on his OWN forum
Lyrics don't have to be difficult...Mike wrote them straight from the heart, what more could he do ?!!
I've been trying to defend Mike, James and DT on several boards for many years and you know what ? I stopped...I couldn't keep up with all the bashing that keeps showing up everywhere on DT forums..it's so sad and it makes me afraid of what this world might turn into...
 
Mike, I'm one of the fans that LOVE everything you do, please remember that most of us (the quiet ones too..) respect you for sharing your life, memories and grieve, in this matter, with us.
THANK YOU...
Caroline

Weymolith

Seacraft


My .02 is as follows:
How much wood could a Woodchuck chuck, if a Woodchuck could chuck wood??

Using the formula: (W + I) * C where W = the constant of wood, which is well known to be 61, as agreed in many scientific circles. I = the variable in this equation, and stands for the word "if" from the original problem. As there are three circumstances, with 0 equaling the chance that the woodchuck cannot chuck wood, 1 being the theory that the woodchuck can chuck wood but chooses not to, and 2 standing for the probability that the woodchuck can and will chuck wood, we clearly must choose 2 for use in this equation. C = the constant of Chuck Norris, whose presence in any problem involving the word chuck must there, is well known to equal 1.1 of any known being, therefore the final part of this calculation is 1.1. As is clear, this appears to give the answer of (61 + 2) * 1.1 = (63) * 1.1 = 69.3 units of wood.

Holy shit, I never knew you were a math genius! Then again, your theory math is far more different . . .  :P

Mike, I'm one of the fans that LOVE everything you do, please remember that most of us (the quiet ones too..) respect you for sharing your life, memories and grieve, in this matter, with us. THANK YOU...

+1
I'm that "quiet one", 'cause I don't speak English well enough to express my thoughts and feelings...
"The Best of Times" is one of the best songs in your career, so powerful, so sincere... "My heart is bleedin' bad" every time I hear it 'cause I know what feellings you put into it. It's so touching. And it's a great gift that you share your life with us through your music and lyrics. Please, don't stop. We love you. 

I love Wey's Avatar. Makes me laugh my ass off everytime, haha!

"Community Fuqstik Barricade"

ROFL!

Gonna make a short comment here:

I think the main problem here is that Mike is looking for something in the fans that he'll never get out of them. You can't ever please everyone or even aim to try and please everyone, you just have to do the music that sounds good to you when you guys play it alone together and the fans will follow.

I also think the main problem is that the fans are looking for something in Mike and Dream Theater that they'll never get out of them. Everyone needs to listen to their music with an open heart and an open mind. If it's not your preference, then it's not your preference. I personally don't see why so many people here feel the need to write page long reviews on their stuff and detail every little opinion to the tee, it's just not beneficial for ANYONE.

Bottom line, when words are many, transgression is unavoidable. :) (Proverbs 10:19)

I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion?

I'm not saying this is how Mike should act, it's his forum and obviously the song in question is a highly personal one which changes the context slightly, but the fuss in this thread makes me think of a Devin Townsend interview I read recently. 

SA: With the instantaneous nature of web forums (speaking in particular about your own), do you feel any undue pressure resulting from reading your rabid fans' opinions? Do they sometimes get on your nerves? Have you ever changed or compromised any of your material in order to appease fans?

DT: Yeah, of course there are things that get on my nerves, but I rarely comment on those things. A forum is a public place for people to express opinions, good or bad, founded or unfounded, on what I do. It's all perspective, and I welcome any and all comments. I think that if someone comes to the forum day in, week out to vocalize how much they dislike something, at least the music has generated enough of a reaction for them to spend that amount of time. But again, there's no 'right' or 'wrong' opinion. People need different things from music and there's an ass for every chair (so to speak). It's all subjective and I'm actualizing a work in progress. I am honest with everything I do, and I do it to the best of my ability.

mr_john


I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion?

Not on this forum.

bbqsauce

mr_john


I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion?

Not on this forum.

Oh, really now.  Everyone is allowed to express an opinion on here  It's rarely the opinion that's wrong, but the way it's given.  There are obvious exceptions (racism, etc) that should not be discussed or disclosed on what is primarily a music forum at all, but there are better ways to say you don't like a song's lyrics than by copy-pasting them into a comment, then insulting various lines as you go.

I just meant that on this forum the way it goes is that you have to respect Portnoy and DT. Say anything that could be deemed offensive, even if it is an opinion, and you'll probably get in trouble. If you don't like that rule then there isn't much point posting here.

Why would you be on this forum in the first place if you didn't respect Portnoy and DT (and weren't a troll)?  We don't have to love everything the man does, but we don't have to criticise any of it in such a pig-headed manner as PetFish did, and then act surprised when Portnoy takes offence at it.

Mrs. Todd, Tiger Woods wants your number :)

bbqsauce

mr_john


I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion?

Not on this forum.

You've been here less than a week and have already formed that opinion?

Anyone thought about taking that instrumental CD to a Karoke bar and singing in JLB place?

bbqsauce


I just meant that on this forum the way it goes is that you have to respect Portnoy and DT. Say anything that could be deemed offensive, even if it is an opinion, and you'll probably get in trouble. If you don't like that rule then there isn't much point posting here.

It is possible to both be respectful and post a negative opinion. It's all in how you say it. There's several posters who are over-sensitive to negative criticism of Mike/DT no matter how it's presented, but the vast majority of folks here (including the people that count...being MP and Wey) can handle well articulated, respectful criticism.

Weymolith

bbqsauce

mr_john


I thought everyone was entitled to an opinion?

Not on this forum.

You've been here less than a week and have already formed that opinion?

I've been reading the forum for about a year, but only decided to get involved now I'm unemployed. 

petfish: next time use more tact and common sense and don't insult the drummer on his own forum so brazenly!

Derango

bbqsauce


I just meant that on this forum the way it goes is that you have to respect Portnoy and DT. Say anything that could be deemed offensive, even if it is an opinion, and you'll probably get in trouble. If you don't like that rule then there isn't much point posting here.

It is possible to both be respectful and post a negative opinion. It's all in how you say it. There's several posters who are over-sensitive to negative criticism of Mike/DT no matter how it's presented, but the vast majority of folks here (including the people that count...being MP and Wey) can handle well articulated, respectful criticism.

Yeah that's pretty much what I said. "if it's deemed offensive, even if it's an opinion, you'll get in trouble".

I think i've been misunderstood here, but if I seem super-human...