SeventhSon

Frunobulax

What about The Count of Tuscany, did you hear that one (no offense to the tune, but the lyrics are pretty awful if you don't know exactly what's going on)?  

This just goes to show how subjective and personal music is.  This is one of my favorite songs on the album.  When I put the headphones on it plays out in my head like a freaking movie.

Love the Counts  lyrics and obscure vocal melodies

I have been jamming TBOT a lot tonight after reading the comments. It's awesome, the song has had great growth since the album release, and I actually get a really positive vibe from it, which is special concerning the sad topic. Now looking at the thread, when I made the poll I should have included the fact that JP and MP have vox on the album too, and their melodies certainly add to the experience. So please considered vocals, in general, and not just JLB's when voting.

Another bold message from Portnoy, rightfully so....although it was overkill. I would say that PF wasn't trying to pick away at MP directly, but rather say his opinion on the board. There's going to be tons of people who dislike something (whatever it may be), when it means a lot to the owner, or another person.

PF made a pretty good apology, and seems to be an active member for quite a while. Hopefully MP realizes and accepts. His decision, right?

MP- I'm not trying to pick away at you. You're a good guy. ;)

There's more I could say, but I don't feel like typing atm.

Portnoy

It was the greatest gift I was ever given and a moment I will never EVER forget...
 

DT coming to NZ for the first time was the greatest gift I've ever received. I know I'll never forget that 

I've decided to start up a new artwork challenge and here are the details:

http://www.mikeportnoy.com/forum/m2456368.aspx

This whole thing is extra sad now as Mike is on stage down under and I'm sure he feels awesome reading my comment before he goes on stage.  Jesus, I'm a royal douche.

Those of you who know me know that I'm not like this, I'm a good guy always doing things for others be they strangers or people I care about.  I don't know what else I can say at this point.

Hoping to try to get things back on track:

When listening in the car, computer, etc. I perfect the vocal version.

When trying to learn the songs or play along with the songs on drums, I prefer the instrumental version.

I think the Forum could do with 'Like' and 'disklike' buttons for posts. Much like facebook. Perhaps instead of dislike, it could be 'fail'.

This thread would be full of fail. Im just speechless right now...

Damn...I checked out Mike's prog blog and saw the topic "The Best of Times" and figured it was cause they pulled it out for the first time live.  I was all ready to search youtube to see that awesomeness. 

I don't know what brings people to criticize personal lyrics like that.  I mean, if I thought Vacant or Take Away My Pain sucked I surely wouldnt say it on James's or John's forums (of course, I think they both rule but thats beside the point). 

Though my opinion doesn't matter I can say that when I hear The Best of Times, even though the lyrics are very specific and aren't close to the moments I've shared with my dad, the spirit is totally in the same vein and I always picture how my life would be if I had a father that lived on the west coast or introduced me to my favorite band.  In other words its totally effective and an awesome song (my girlfriends favorite too...which is badass to get her to like anything of mine)

Now i'm not the only one pwned by Mr. Mike Portnoy : O

Anyway, I like the lyrics of The Best of Times, probably the best of the album. But the other, imo are not so good. The vocals would be nicer with some high notes by the pirate in TBOT or The Count.

Portnoy

 
I know the fans are gonna now come to your defense because I am now personally insulting you and using profanity (awwww...poor baby...)....trust me, I can take criticism over my lyrics and other matters...but this particular subject is where I draw the line and will not take the abuse and insensitive, personal insults like you displayed with your comments....
 

I'm not coming to anybody's defense when they say something this shitty.  I doubt that I can add anything to this that has not already been said.  I don't normally get involved in stuff like this, but yeah - that was a pretty douche bag thing to do/say (ANYWHERE, let alone on the drummer's/lyric author's site).  As a long time fan, and almost 40yr old, dude (PedFish) - you've got some major growing up and maturing to do...


Mike

PetFish

I've met you at a few shows and I've been a diehard fan for years (DT website, CD/desktop artwork, video projects, and such) but that doesn't excuse what I said.  I really don't know why I wrote what I did, sure I was feeling that way, but to air it out here was 100% wrong of me.  If I get the chance to meet you again I'll introduce myself and look you in the eye and "man up" and apologize whole-heartedly in person... text just can't get across properly the emotions needed to say many things, especially important things like this.

Clearly you didn't buy Black Clouds because if you did you'd have seen the song was dedicated to his father.

Just my 2c.

PetFish's apology gave me douchechills

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.

What? The parts that make the song beautiful is the singing (everything from "The fleeting winds of time" onward), and JP's solo. I don't know what instrumental version you got, but I have neither on mine. The instrumental parts without these bits is uninteresting. Really. I can't believe anyone would *listen* to it.

And the lyrics are touching. The song sometimes almost makes me cry.

And the only reason I see someone listening to the instrumentals is to sing along. I don't find them listenable when a crucial part of the song is missing. But I enjoy singing with them.

It's a very stand up move for you to apologize Petfish. People make mistakes and owning up to it and apologizing says a lot about you.

I listened to instrumental tracks twice and that's it. It's nice to hear what's sometimes covered by vocals, but these songs are far better with vox imo. Wither is a vocals-oriented song, TBOT maybe is good as an instrumental but then it's the lyrics that make it absolutely moving. First song ever to have me almost burst in tears.

And oh my God... just looked at the beginning of this thread and saw Petfish's post. My heart shrank for Mike even before I saw his response. Maybe it wasn't meant to be insulting (but it WAS!), but gosh, that was the most insensitive and stupid thing one could have ever done on this forum. 

I haven't actually listened to the instrumental tracks yet keep on meaning to get around to it but as of yet just haven't.

I don't really know if I'm the only one but I don't really have an issue with any of the lyrics in BC&SL, the only ones that struck me as being kind of weird was Count Of Tuscany but when you consider the ridiculousness of the situation being wrote about it makes sense the lyrics being a bit silly.

Then again I can also listen to 'You Not Me' and actually enjoy it :P

I found it interesting to listen to the songs without vocals. I found new things in the instrumental part of the songs, I did not hear when I listen to it with the vocals. When that is said, I must say the songs are better with vocals. It is obvious they are written to fit lyrics.

I am speechless when I see people post what Petfish did. Clearly Petfish did not think before posting. I will not defend him in anyway. It was stupid. The Best Of Times is a beautiful song with a lot of emotion. My mother (yes, I mention her again!) absolutely loves and adores the song because of the lyrics and JP´s guitar work on it. The song is in my top3 of songs from BC&SL!

I somehow feel sorry for both Mike and PetFish....
I can fully understand Mikes reaction and I also think it was a good thing of PetFish to apologize (not sure if Mike can accept i that easily).

I hope this doesn't change Mikes view about sharing his beliefs and meanings with his fans through his lyrics....

I'll say one thing: Think before speeking. It's sad to see that Mike has to defend him once again, and this time about something so close-hearted. We're all human, and things written on the internet is read by humans. Sadly, some people tend to forget that very fact...

PetFish

 What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful. 

ummmmm......  maybe it was the fact that his father was dying of cancer........

Alclub


PetFish's apology gave me douchechills

If there was a like button I would like this.

There are many days when MP would probably like to button this place up for good. And I wouldn't blame him a bit.
Life is too short.

^ I agree, but I think he also knows that most of us completely appreciate him and all that he does. Shutting down for one jackass comment doesnt seem like MP. No matter how hurtful/ignorant.

Soundchaser


^

Ya we know your sorry and shit....but, if this was any else that you insulted other than Mike, you wouldn't write that huge ass apology.

Stop trying to kiss ass


EDIT: directed at PetFish..obviously..

Jesus, Kyle! STOP FORGETTING TO WRITE WORDS!!
 
 

It's not just one. It's daily and multiple. It's cuts here and cuts there. All day every day for the 5 years I've been here.
Reading posts through MP's eyes are different than through ours. A harsh opinion we skim over and put no weight
into, slides the blade in slightly deeper through MP's eyes. Though it's a given, as a public figure and a creator of
art, he (along with all other creators) will always be subjected to this, but it makes the cuts no less painful. All
humans have skin and nerves. There's no 'shut-off' button just because you're in the limelight.

I can get a little choked up when I hear The Best of Times. Not because I've lost a parent, but because I can almost see it from the parent's point of view with their child. I start to wonder what sort of great memories I'm making with my own kids. (And perhaps the reason I'm getting choked up is because I haven't done enough to create more of those memories.)

Beyond the lyrics, I really like that the music is upbeat. It starts out like it's going to be a slow, sad song, but then kicks into something that makes it all positive.

As for vocal version vs. instrumental... I love that we have both. I'm someone who primarily focuses on the instruments when I listen to music. So having the option to hear the album without vocals is a joy. I believe Mike has said he doesn't like to repeat himself, but I hope this is something that we'll see again in the future.

PetFish


Mike,

I don't think I could possibly feel any lower than I do right now.

You and Dream Theater have been one of the only things in my life that have been consistently great over the years.  I've been able to follow you since 1991 when my lame band covered "Pull Me Under" cuz my drummer wanted to and I had never heard of you before.  Your history has inspired me to try and do the right thing and stick-to-it at all times.  The fact that you guys made it through the bad times and you made it through your addictions is phenomenal and the fact that your success is growing is testament to that.  You've fought through a lot of criticisms and idiot posts on your forum and I can't believe I am now a part of that pathetic group.

I've met you at a few shows and I've been a diehard fan for years (DT website, CD/desktop artwork, video projects, and such) but that doesn't excuse what I said.  I really don't know why I wrote what I did, sure I was feeling that way, but to air it out here was 100% wrong of me.  If I get the chance to meet you again I'll introduce myself and look you in the eye and "man up" and apologize whole-heartedly in person... text just can't get across properly the emotions needed to say many things, especially important things like this.

I still have both my parents (knock on wood) and I obviously can't relate to what you're going through so I had no right to criticisize something I don't fully understand.  I'm not a jerk or an asshole, I rarely even swear, and I always try and treat people how I'd want to be treated.  Thinking about it now if someone had said what I said after I lost a parent I'd react exactly as you did.

If I have to live with the fact that I've posted the worst insult to you ever then that's what I'll do.  I never thought I would ever make you or anyone else in DT feel this way, it's just not my character at all, and that's a terrible part of this whole situation... I went OUT of my normal character just to say something like this.  My history has shown that I never get involved with these kinds of issues as it just ends up badly for everyone involved.

I'll do whatever it takes to make things right, Mike, and if you hate me forever then that's a tragic consequence I have nobody to blame for but myself.

I just don't know if I can say enough words or apologize enough but I hope you can forgive me.

Respectfully and humbly yours, Erik.

Sorry, dude, I don't buy it.  I can't honestly believe it didn't take you some time to write that post, so it's not like it was an impulsive response.  Suck it up, embrace your jack- assery, and piss off.

koma666


I somehow feel sorry for both Mike and PetFish....
I can fully understand Mikes reaction and I also think it was a good thing of PetFish to apologize (not sure if Mike can accept i that easily).

I hope this doesn't change Mikes view about sharing his beliefs and meanings with his fans through his lyrics....

Me too... the songs that they write about their lifes are my favorites...because it could be anyone writing about that subject... instead of the dark eternal night and so on...witch has to do with the imagination of the artist in my opinion... and I even enjoy more never enough than pull me under... just can´t understand what is about (I´m talking about pull me under of course)

ToniLiveInLisbon

just can´t understand what is about (I´m talking about pull me under of course)

Not to hijack the thread, but I'm pretty sure Pull Me Under was based on Shakespeare's Hamlet. I know the slow part at the end is a direct quote from the story.

Honestly, PetFishes comment doesn't surprise me. This forum is rife with criticisms of everything DT/MP does. Some people who post on this forum aren't even fans anymore, but get all defensive if you ask them why they're even here. The whole 'Oh so just because I have a different opinion to you blah blah blah'...Yeah, you're on Mike Portnoys official site, go away.

A comment like this was bound to come along at some point and I'm glad MP finally chimed in and drew a line, 'cause I'm pretty sure he rolls his eyes up to heaven on a daily basis reading some of the posts about himself and his band on his forum.

Aether


Honestly, PetFishes comment doesn't surprise me. This forum is rife with criticisms of everything DT/MP does. Some people who post on this forum aren't even fans anymore, but get all defensive if you ask them why they're even here. The whole 'Oh so just because I have a different opinion to you blah blah blah'...Yeah, you're on Mike Portnoys official site, go away.

A comment like this was bound to come along at some point and I'm glad MP finally chimed in and drew a line, 'cause I'm pretty sure he rolls his eyes up to heaven on a daily basis reading some of the posts about himself and his band on his forum.

I don't think it's right to throw crap at people who have (well thought out and polite) criticism of the band. Such criticism, even if you don't agree with it, is allowed by the forum rules. You can be a fan and not agree with everything the band does. I like this place because it's got a good mix of people and opinions.

That said...yeah, totally gotta back up MP on this one. Anyone who says Mike didn't put any thought into the lyrics of the song that was a memorial to his father deserves what's coming to him.

Portnoy

PetFish

Frunobulax

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

MIKE'S lyrics?  You listen to BC&SL and it's MIKE'S lyrics that bother you?

Actually, it's just The Best of Times lyrics that bother me, the rest are fine.  This song could have easily been called "Days and Days of Days in a Daze on a Dais".  I know, it's day-iss, but looks funny anyway. 
 
Remember days of yesterday   (the first line starts our days' journey o'cringe)
And how it flew so fast
The two score and a year we had,
I thought would always last
The summer days and west coast dreams,   (some more days)
I wished would never end
A young boy and his father,
Idol and best friend

...

The fleeting winds of time
Flying through each day   (another day)
All the things I should have done
But time just slipped away
Remember "seize the day"   (another diem)
Life goes by in the blink of an eye
There's so much left to say

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (day rhyming with days... C'MON, MAN!)

...

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (see above comment)
My heart is bleeding bad   ("bleeding bad" hurts also)
But I'll be okay
Your spirit guides my life each day   (3x the day in one section?)
 
 
Considering the topic of the lyrics I'd have hoped more thought would have gone into them.  Too bad we won't hear a live version of this for some time as it'll be awesome to sit through even just to hear JP's final lead.

Embarrassingly Cringeworthy??
More thought??
 
PetFish, you get the award for BIGGEST ASSHOLE to ever post on my Forum...
You can hate me for saying that, you can boycott me, you can hang up your hat forever as a DT fan for all I care...
 
I have never been so personally insulted before on my own site...
 
This song is one of the most heart-felt, powerful and personal lyrics I have ever written...it brings me to tears everytime I hear it.
 
I sat at my father's bedside while he was dying and played him this song and we cried like babies while holding hands listening to it....
AND HE LOVED IT!
It was the greatest gift I was ever given and a moment I will never EVER forget...
 
I had a similar experience when playing the song at my dad's funeral...
There was not a dry eye in the room...I had to watch my daughter cry hysterically because the song was so emotional to listen to...
 
And you come in here on your high horse and criticize & insult me...saying I didnt put enough THOUGHT into it????
F*CK YOU!!!
 
I know the fans are gonna now come to your defense because I am now personally insulting you and using profanity (awwww...poor baby...)....trust me, I can take criticism over my lyrics and other matters...but this particular subject is where I draw the line and will not take the abuse and insensitive, personal insults like you displayed with your comments....
 
You can could have easily not said anything knowing how dear this song was to me...
 
If anything, please dont ever listen to this song again....you DONT DESERVE IT!!
I am fine knowing this song was written for myself, my dad and my family to share....not for critical, undeserving, heartless "fans" like yourself...
 
Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out PetDick....
 
MP
 
 

I haven't listened to this song all that much, simply because every time I hear it I cry. I really like the song, but I can't listen to it and not cry. Of course, I had to hear MP sing it on the Wither EP when I got it, and that made me cry even harder. I keep trying to go back and listen to it to see if I can enjoy it without the tears, but it's not working. 

Derango

I don't think it's right to throw crap at people who have (well thought out and polite) criticism of the band. Such criticism, even if you don't agree with it, is allowed by the forum rules.

Oh of course, well thought out and polite criticisms are obviously A-Ok. You couldn't have a discussion/debate on anything to do with them if everyone was just saying 'I agree with you, its great' to each other. I'm talking about the people who aren't fans on here, or used to be, but continue to criticise anything new they do. If they haven't liked any of their albums since 1999 then I think these people should keep their 'expert analysis' on any new releases to themselves and move on to other music, instead of posting their negative views multiple times across MP's forum with the possibility of him reading it.

I know that it doesn't have much to do with the PetFish incident but I guess my point is that it was bound to be said at some point by somebody, considering the amount of negativity on this board about everything from a 10 second Blast beat to a few bars of MP semi-growling.

The acceptance of Erik's apology is up to Mike himself. I don't get how bashing his apology is any more well-thought-out than the offending post itself. Mike doesn't need us to decipher Erik's contrition for him.

For the record, I love James as much as ever, but more for his actual performance than hearing the disc without him.

Mike,

Some of your words in your response touched me personally. My father died of pancreatic cancer. I hardly knew him, and I flew down to see him die out of respect. This may not make you feel better, or help matters on this thread, but I truly envy that you had the opportunity to have closure with him.
 
EDIT: Its a great song

I enjoyed the instrumental tracks expericence. But I much rather listen to the vocals!

As for "The Best of Times"... It's a beautiful song, the most touching moment of the record, maybe of DT's career. 
As a fan, I couldn't help crying the first time I listened to it.
I'm glad you could share it with your dad, Mike

PetFish

Frunobulax

PetFish


Aside from The Best of Times I don't listen to the instrumentals much.  It's not James' voice that hurts but Mike's lyrics.  They are so embarrassingly cringeworthy that I'll go for the instrumental version instead.  I've never felt this way about any DT song before but I feel like saying "C'MON, MAN" to those lyrics.  What makes this extra sad is that the content of the lyrics are so personal and meaningful.  What a shame since the actual music is so amazing and JP's outro solo is mindblowing.

MIKE'S lyrics?  You listen to BC&SL and it's MIKE'S lyrics that bother you?

Actually, it's just The Best of Times lyrics that bother me, the rest are fine.  This song could have easily been called "Days and Days of Days in a Daze on a Dais".  I know, it's day-iss, but looks funny anyway. 
 
Remember days of yesterday   (the first line starts our days' journey o'cringe)
And how it flew so fast
The two score and a year we had,
I thought would always last
The summer days and west coast dreams,   (some more days)
I wished would never end
A young boy and his father,
Idol and best friend

...

The fleeting winds of time
Flying through each day   (another day)
All the things I should have done
But time just slipped away
Remember "seize the day"   (another diem)
Life goes by in the blink of an eye
There's so much left to say

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (day rhyming with days... C'MON, MAN!)

...

These were the best of times
I'll miss these days
Your spirit led my life each day   (see above comment)
My heart is bleeding bad   ("bleeding bad" hurts also)
But I'll be okay
Your spirit guides my life each day   (3x the day in one section?)
 
 
Considering the topic of the lyrics I'd have hoped more thought would have gone into them. 

 
WOW...just WOW!
Why on earth would you write this?