The story behind my vocals on "A Nightmare To Remember"

I can't believe how people can talk crap about stuff like this! DT, or any other band for that matter, put a lot of time & effort into putting out a product that they are obviously happy with. If someone doesn't like something thats OK, but to let it get to the point where a band member, in this case MP, has to explain himself is absurd. You can voice your opinion without being disrespectful to the band. I can't think of any one person who puts himself out there for the fans like Mike does, & we all should be thankful for that (and most of us are) cause one day it will alll be gone.  I personally like the part, & I say whatever the guys want to put in there, it's fine with me...it's their band.  Thanks Mike for another GREAT album!!

T.J.H.

citizen erased


ill probably get chewed out for this but I guess this thread kinda seperates the true fans from the others

How so? And who is that in your avatar? I know I've seen him before but his name escapes me.

I just figured the fans that were bashing DT would try and claim their faith. but my avatar is moe carlson of protest the hero.  And I can't believe the words being thrown around in this thread man, its not right.

Mike, PLEASE do the cookie vocals live.

arkin6

TrueSagan


Was the St. Anger snare a mistake? Yes, because everyone hated it. Was the mixing on Vapour Trails a mistake? Yes, because everyone hated it. Are the vocals on ANTR a mistake? As far as I can see on most forums, the reaction has been overwhelmingly negative with people making fun of it and parodying it left and right. I'd say it was a mistake.

 I can't believe someone said this. Obviously everyone will be making fun of this and parodying it left and right, so therefore this statement was a mistake. Yup.

Trust me, I'd change my username if I could.  Truth is, I used to be a DT fanboy.  Then I realized who they are and then I became a fan.

TrueSagan


I don't know how to make it sound polite. I am a huge fan of this band, as I have grown up with it and I am very nostalgic about their whole career. It's just the music nearest to my heart like Pink Floyd may have been to my parents or others from that generation, but that part is just bad, and it doesn't matter what went into it or where it came from. The fact that most people on other sites have voiced their hate of it only means that people are afraid of voicing their opinion here.

They made a mistake. Everyone can live with it, it's not that big a deal, but I've already removed it from my version.

Maybe they'll learn from it and bring in a producer next album. This would never have happened with a producer to say if something is good or not, and producers have never gone wrong until they were phased out by Mike. Bring 'em back!

hope for the next DT they release an album with Mike Backing james lyrics in cookie monster voice.

Your post has got to me when i read they made a mistake

wtf. a mistake is when someone is playing live and they play a wrong note thats a mistake

what ur describing is an artistic choice that u didnt like, that is all whoopdy fucking do

First of all Mike, I really appreciate everything you do for me as a fan. Sure, I won't get to see you live this tour and I'll probably never get to meet you, but so what? There are millions out there just like me and I really appreciate that you take the time and really extend your hand and heart out to welcome us all and trust us as fans and friends (frandz, as one Canadian vocalist would say ).

Second, your deathgrowls are AWESOME! Chuck would be impressed! I really like the final version though, it was great and thrashy and just plain cool.

And anyone saying the vocals didn't match the lyrics is wrong.

I haven't read the other posts, so forgive me if Im repeating someone.

MIKE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO APOLOGIZE FOR HIS ALBUM.

Mike, who cares about those who speak out against you. Read The Fountainhead and you'll feel better. :) You are part of one of the most respected Prog Rock bands of all times. Those you you idolize..like Brian May, Neil Peart...etc all respect you. So what if some haters on the internet say bad things. Lets see Brian May or DThater2738383939 who's opinion matters more?? Keep on rocking! PS. The Count of Tuscany is a MASTERPIECE!!!!

When PN09 Europe rolls in Mikael Akerfeldt should do the growls live in ANTR that would be really sweet!

faizoff


When PN09 Europe rolls in Mikael Akerfeldt should do the growls live in ANTR that would be really sweet!

I'd really like it if MP just did them.  That'd be the sweetest!

I really only skimmed the replies in this thread, but I pretty much found exactly what I expected....

Here's my take on the thing:

I really don't like that part, I think it sounds silly (in terms of lyrics, execution, rhythm...everything really) and borders on sounding like a parody.  That said...who cares?  I'm not telling the band how they should sound, what they should've done, etc. nor would I want to do any of those things.  The only problem I have is that MP feels the need to put forth an excessive amount of effort to explain himself.  Mike, if you're happy with what you put on the record then good for you, more power to you and you should just own up to it rather than try explain and excuse yourself to people who don't like it.  If you're happy with it, then I'm happy for you.

All that said...while there probably are some folks out there being disrespectful and over-the-top with their reactions to this, there's no need to demonize everyone who is in any way critical of the band.  Some of you guys are painting this picture of anyone who critiques them as being some angry, bitter, elitst power nerd sitting in a dark room typing away with evil intent.  I'm listening to the album right now, enjoying it as a whole, and don't have a bit of ill-will or malicious intent anywhere in me...there's no "bashing" or "hating", there's nothing I'm saying that I wouldn't say to any member of the band or any of you fellow forumers if prompted, and there's no pretense that my opinion should somehow void anybody else's likes or dislikes.  It seems that so many of you would like to see any negative reviews or opinions completely outlawed...which is pretty unhealthy in my opinon.  Mike and the other guys are all humans and while they do deserve respect, they don't deserve to be put on a pedestal...nobody does.  They are not above criticism and they are not infallible.  Recognizing this and voicing opinions (negative or positive) is not an indication of how much of a fan someone is...get that silly notion out of your head.  Do I like the section?  No.  Does it affect my view of the record as a whole?  Not really.  Is there anything stopping me from just not listening to that section of music if I don't want to?  Nope.  Should any of this affect Mike's view of his own music or anybody elses enjoyment of it?  Of course not. 

uberDTfreak

And if the growls didn't fit, then why the fuck would Mike want it?  Are you saying Mike doesn't know his group?

Well, JP didn't want it, and they compromised... That's how groups work. As much as I harped on the fact that there is no secret that Mike and JP tend to make a lot of the decisions like that, they don't lock them selves in a room and lock all band input out. So, are you saying JP doesn't know his group?

Your question there wouldn't hold water anywhere. Mike already established in his letter that he compromised, but he would not compromise that the section should be heavier with weightier vocals. He knew his group and felt passionately about the heavy bit that he never let it go through that bit of compromise. In a band you pick and choose your battles. You may like an idea better, but you often find you can see the other guy's point of view, and in the end when you can see he or she is adamant about it and in reality, you know there are other things you care more about... you concede... and then the times that you are passionate about an idea... you don't concede and you either win outright, or more discussion is needed.

As for your other comment of learning who DT are... dude, very few of us know any of them personally. You continue to be presumptive and it seems you're only interested in using conjecture to serve your idea of what DT ought to be and ought to do.

Once again... what has ever been SO groundbreaking about DT from WDADU to now? Good music is not contingent (am I really having to say this again?) on innovation... Bach wasn't innovative... Mozart wasn't innovative... Will you write your arrogant question to those genius composers? Should they have never considered expanding their audience, or should they ONLY have been interested in progressing for the sake of progress? Give me a break man... Mozart would have starved. Bachs Coffee Contatas were not done because he was just bored one day. He needed money and had a great sense of humor.

Its easy for you to postulate your idealogical question in order to impose your opinion of what is or isn't right for DT... You aren't feeding their families.

I always like Mike's "harsher" vocals best when he's trading off with JLB, like in parts of The Glass Prison. That would've worked awesome here.

uberDTfreak


 Trust me, I'd change my username if I could.  Truth is, I used to be a DT fanboy.  Then I realized who they are and then I became a fan.

 

I think you're better off finding a new band to listen to. Fans don't insult Mike like you did..

i love the vocals you do mike. i was just telling my friend i wished u did the vocals for the dark eternal night as well. 

When I started listening to the album I didn't like this part that much, but now it grew on me and I can't wait to see Mike sing this live!!!
I'm pretty sure everyone will go

MP you are truly a gentleman! Only real musicians do stuff like this, you actually care about us and you are still my #1 drummer!!!
Keep it metal!

Meedleyx10


I really only skimmed the replies in this thread, but I pretty much found exactly what I expected....

Here's my take on the thing:

I really don't like that part, I think it sounds silly (in terms of lyrics, execution, rhythm...everything really) and borders on sounding like a parody.  That said...who cares?  I'm not telling the band how they should sound, what they should've done, etc. nor would I want to do any of those things.  The only problem I have is that MP feels the need to put forth an excessive amount of effort to explain himself.  Mike, if you're happy with what you put on the record then good for you, more power to you and you should just own up to it rather than try explain and excuse yourself to people who don't like it.  If you're happy with it, then I'm happy for you.

All that said...while there probably are some folks out there being disrespectful and over-the-top with their reactions to this, there's no need to demonize everyone who is in any way critical of the band.  Some of you guys are painting this picture of anyone who critiques them as being some angry, bitter, elitst power nerd sitting in a dark room typing away with evil intent.  I'm listening to the album right now, enjoying it as a whole, and don't have a bit of ill-will or malicious intent anywhere in me...there's no "bashing" or "hating", there's nothing I'm saying that I wouldn't say to any member of the band or any of you fellow forumers if prompted, and there's no pretense that my opinion should somehow void anybody else's likes or dislikes.  It seems that so many of you would like to see any negative reviews or opinions completely outlawed...which is pretty unhealthy in my opinon.  Mike and the other guys are all humans and while they do deserve respect, they don't deserve to be put on a pedestal...nobody does.  They are not above criticism and they are not infallible.  Recognizing this and voicing opinions (negative or positive) is not an indication of how much of a fan someone is...get that silly notion out of your head.  Do I like the section?  No.  Does it affect my view of the record as a whole?  Not really.  Is there anything stopping me from just not listening to that section of music if I don't want to?  Nope.  Should any of this affect Mike's view of his own music or anybody elses enjoyment of it?  Of course not. 

This.

I'm totally gay for Dream Theater, and that's the truth - but I think everyone should be a little more level headed about this. I appreciate everything Mike does for the me and all the other fans of this band, but I don't have to like every aspect of everything they create. I try to be constructive whenever I am critical of Dream Theater in the domain of one of its members. 

I'd say Mike should just let alone this community and the rest where the bashing will inevitable occur, but then that would ruin one of the best qualities of this band - the relationship with the fans. I can safely say I would not be the person I am today without Dream Theater - especially as a musician. They're not the only band in the world for me, but the thing is, hearing them opened the door for me to experience bands such as Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Between the Buried and Me, Pain of Salvation, etc. And I thank them for that.

Wonderland


Mike, PLEASE do the cookie vocals live.

I think you want the cookie monster vocals. Cookie vocals are usually sung by a 6 year old girl, and I'm sure they won't fit that section.

Meedleyx10
sitting in a dark room typing away with evil intent

Is that you, Aqualung?

Portnoy

In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow...
 

No bashing intended, just honesty - isn't that both killing the spirit of 'prog' music, and assuming that the fans are narrow-minded?

It's sad that Mike has to explain himself. It's even sadder that even after he has users still have to come in and bash him for it.

Bans have happened and will continue to happen.

You want to personally attack Mike, go find somewhere else to do it, your account is very short lived if you do it here on his official site.

exabyte

Wonderland

Mike, PLEASE do the cookie vocals live.

I think you want the cookie monster vocals.

But "Cookie" is the usual short form for "cookie monster".

Portnoy

it's not always about virtuoso, operatic range...

Amen to that.

I actually felt really saddened reading the latter part of Mike's post.

All I can say is that for every gratuitously negative response, there are probably a hundred positive responses. The reason you may not see or hear these is that people (particularly online) are much more vocal when it comes to negativity than positivity. I find it a sad facet of a human nature that it's so easy for people to gang up for a verbal beat-down, ignorant to or uninterested in the feelings of their targets.

Thanks again for the music and particularly for sharing with us the thought/creative process that went behind that particular bit of the song. While I think it's a shame that you felt you had to go to that level of detail to justify yourself, it's fascinating to get that insight.

Can't wait to hear more new material live later this year...

Monk


You know I think I like the cookie monster vocals the best. Seriously. For some reason, that was great.

Holy Shit, that was way cool.  Mike, I wish you would have kept the Cookie Monster piece in the song, but I do understand why you didn't.

As for the "bashers" I learned a long time ago that the Internet is a big, big place, that is absolutely bursting at the seams with idiots.   -nuff said.

What I find funny about this whole deal is that if Mike HAD called in Mikael Akerfeldt to do the vox on this, there'd be a 30-40% increase in people talking about how "fuckin incredible and mind blowing" that part was, and the mentioning of lyrical content would also be less. 
 
I like the album version and I like the cookie version even more.  Either one woulda been fine by me.
 
 
Fuck 'em Mike.  A vast majority of us appreciate all the work you guys do for our enjoyment.  You owe an explanation to exactly NOBODY.
 

JDouglee

Portnoy

it's not always about virtuoso, operatic range...

Amen to that.

heeheehee, I wanna hear JP sing on an Album

"Safe in the the light that surrounds meeeeeeeeeee"

TrueSagan


I don't know how to make it sound polite. I am a huge fan of this band, as I have grown up with it and I am very nostalgic about their whole career. It's just the music nearest to my heart like Pink Floyd may have been to my parents or others from that generation, but that part is just bad, and it doesn't matter what went into it or where it came from. The fact that most people on other sites have voiced their hate of it only means that people are afraid of voicing their opinion here.

They made a mistake. Everyone can live with it, it's not that big a deal, but I've already removed it from my version.

Maybe they'll learn from it and bring in a producer next album. This would never have happened with a producer to say if something is good or not, and producers have never gone wrong until they were phased out by Mike. Bring 'em back!

Dude, do you have even one, single shred of class or common decency?  You are all over this board, in practically every thread, multiple times, criticizing, over and over and over and over and over again and again and again and again. 

We get it, trust me.  We all get it, you don't like the album.  Can you please stop now? 

Get some class.  Some tact.  Some common sense. 

Man, enough is enough already.

The cookie monster vocals were the best! Gotta hear it live.

Tunnel Vision

MustaineHead


I am not here to piss on anything or anyone. So I will keep my mouth shut about what I think of the new album. But for me there is one big problem with 'new' DT muisc and that is (and of course it's not that I want more growl):

"In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow"

Not sure I fully understand your post. Do mean that the problem now is that it's just MP and JP making decisions?

Well that's another problem but that was not what I was pointing out.
I think the problem is that they are trying to keep all the fans happy. They don't care about the music anymore.  They are just repeating them selfs, working the formula to sell discs and keep people happy.
DT is nowadays all about pleasing the fans and getting new ones. Money.

Weymolith


It's sad that Mike has to explain himself. It's even sadder that even after he has users still have to come in and bash him for it.

Bans have happened and will continue to happen.

You want to personally attack Mike, go find somewhere else to do it, your account is very short lived if you do it here on his official site.

Thank you wey!!!!!!!!  i agree 100%

Weymolith


It's sad that Mike has to explain himself. It's even sadder that even after he has users still have to come in and bash him for it.

Bans have happened and will continue to happen.

You want to personally attack Mike, go find somewhere else to do it, your account is very short lived if you do it here on his official site.

I really don't understand the need of anyone to bash anything by DT.  If you don't like it, you don't like it.  But no need to bash it.
 
And there is certainly no need for Mike to "justify" or "explain" why the band chose to do something.  Of course, I think it's great that he shared some of the process in this case. 
 
But trust me when I say that the negative things I've seen posted on various forums are BY FAR in the minority.  TBH, this album has gotten the best fan forum reception of any in a long time.  And with good reason, because it's phenomenal.

*I* like the cookie monster vocal version the best. I do thank you for not using the 'counterpoint' version.

Either way....Thanks for the new album!

just listened to the "ANTR MP Cookie.mp3"

wow, that sounds sweet :)


probably doesn't quite fit the song and the way DT sound, but would have gone well in a different band

i don't have a problem with it. it really fits the mood of the song in my mind, it is drifting into the realm of having a nightmare about the incident afterwards ("did the ever see the red light?" etc etc) and should sound a bit darker and a bit different from the tone of the rest of the vocals


i think to outright declare that "they made a mistake" is giving oneself a little too much self-importance though :)

Bmac

What I find funny about this whole deal is that if Mike HAD called in Mikael Akerfeldt to do the vox on this, there'd be a 30-40% increase in people talking about how "fuckin incredible and mind blowing" that part was, and the mentioning of lyrical content would also be less.

Not in the least bit. If anything, it would polarize the fans even more - those who are into extreme prog metal (Opeth, BtBaM, etc.) would love it more, and those who can't get into them at all would hate the section more. The mentioning of lyrical content would be roughly the same - doesn't matter who's doing it, it's the delivery that is the issue and those that take issue with the lyrical content know that (in fact, I'm sure that some of them aren't against cookie monster vocals).

Agh Mike, next time you have a dilemna just fly me into the studio and I'll sort it out! ;D

I still don't like MPs lead vocals, but what Mike has done to us (fans) in this post, is so GREAT, it speaks of a musician that really cares for its fans, for all the bashers and admirers out there, I can only say THANKS MP, THANKS DT, beacause even if you don't have to explain the "whys" of your decisions as a band, you do it, and with humbleness, you're really great musicians, and great people. As I said in my amateurish fan made review in this forum of the great record that BC&SL is, "the band is in great shape", and this only confirms my thoughts. As always, I'll be waiting for the Southamerican tour, and will save my hard earned money to travel again 1000km to enjoy the magnifecent band that DT is. I'm speaking of money, because everytime I see bands like DT, and people ask why I spend 80 pesos (20u$s, but to us, 80pesos is like 80 u$s in the US) to buy a original cd, I say: you've got to support the bands you love, the bands that keep doing the music they love, no matter what, and everytime I can go to a concert of them, I'm happy, for all the band gives to their fans in their shows. (BTW, I love the 3 cds edition of BC&SL, it's amazing that it was launched here in my country as fast as it was available in the rest of the world).

Thanks again MP.

I just don't think it works when DT go macho with the vocals. I love alotta Opeth and Devin Townsend stuff because it sounds completely natural for them to scream their heads off. I find it hard to believe that the rest of DT are fans of the style so it always comes off as a bit forced, out of place and unnatural. I respect MP for his post. It was a pretty cool behind the scenes look at their thought process.

MP, thanks for the story.  I don't mind the "Constant Motion" vocal approach at all.  In fact, I think I would have really gone for the Cookie Monster/Opeth approach too.  I might even like that one better!

Thanks for always thinking about us fans!