The story behind my vocals on "A Nightmare To Remember"

Well, I guess I've always prefered clean vocals so (besides the instrumental mix) the LaBrie only version would have been my preference.  If nothing else, Mike's cookie monster vox gave me a chuckle anyway.

I was impressed by the album version vocals, a LOT. And awesome job on the growls, too.

What impressed me most was the blast beats. A perfect addition to a bad ass epic.

You never cease to amaze me Mr. Portnoy.

Thanks for the input, Mike! This is cool insight for sure.

Respect to you Mike! thanks for the explanation! cool to hear the different versions!!! Mike, you da man! What a great album BC&SL is! you guys did again!! (ps. keep singing! I really think the back up vocals you and JP sing add an extra dimension to DT's sound, I love it!)

Dear Mike,
don´t give a shit about those bashers: they need to find fault in everything, because that is their thing! The real fans appreaciate you and your music - even if they may find certain songs or bits not so "perfect", because they know music is art and that is personal all the time.  For me - as for most of the people here - there is no better band musically and personly at the moment. You do not have to justify your artistic decisions (eventhough I really appreaciate your explanations and would like to hear something about other songs f.e. Octavarium), people should take the songs the way you made them. You all created Dream Theater, people need to shut up, stop the senseless complaining and enjoy what they are given. Is it really "never enough"?

Thank you again - for all the brilliant music, the wonderful concerts and especially your neverending efforts to please even the ones, who don´t deserve it. Just don´t take it all to heart, Mike!

CT

PS.: Gelsenkirchen ROCKED!!!!!!!!

My First post.

Ok I had no no problem whatsoever with your vocals Mike. It was surprising at first listen, but I've come to love it after 10 or so more listens. I think its kinda stupid that we believe that we can criticize you for trying something different. That is the essence of progressive music, isn't it? Likewise, you're the nicest guy in the music industry for going out of your way to try to please us! That RAWR at the end was pretty funny though, I must say. I am looking forward to seeing you guys front row in Chicago Aug 23 by the way.

Ok, done now

Mike... your response is actually greatly appreciated. It's cool to get a little background on it, but you didn't really need to defend anything. Not everyone is going to like what you end up doing in the end, so that's OK...


I personally thought that the second version (cookie monster + LaBrie doing melodic stuff) was actually a completely different sounding approach for DT and if it were my record, that's the version I'd prefer to keep on the record, but... it's not my record!!!

However, thanks for the background story... really cool!

Cheers.

Wow!
I wish the Growls were on the record.
That was impressive!

Mike, if you read this post by any chance, did you guys ever consider JP for this part? Cause I know he can pull off some scary shit with his voice, as he does in The Glass Prison. 

Not that your vocals are bad - I like the tone and color of your voice, but the fundamental issue I have, as others have already pointed out, is with the lyrics themselves in this section. It seems like the final couple lines depicting how everyone survived are kinda unnecessary and lessen the impact of story.

That said, I also believe the "beautiful agony" section of this song is one of THE ultimate Dream Theater moments for me. Thank you. Love this band.

Mike...members of JLB.com asked me to post the link in this thread, so you can read how we think about this there; POSITIVE ENERGY
 
http://www.jameslabrie.com/forum/index.php?topic=366.0
 
Now go back and worry about the tour you're doing and nothing else, ok ?!
 
Caroline

Smirnoff


Mike... your response is actually greatly appreciated. It's cool to get a little background on it, but you didn't really need to defend anything. Not everyone is going to like what you end up doing in the end, so that's OK...


I personally thought that the second version (cookie monster + LaBrie doing melodic stuff) was actually a completely different sounding approach for DT and if it were my record, that's the version I'd prefer to keep on the record, but... it's not my record!!!

However, thanks for the background story... really cool!

Cheers.

This. Liked the story!

I've read some of those critics on others forums, and I've noticed that DT is a band people LOVE or HATE because in one hand u can see people saying DT's the best band ever and everything they do is pure gold  (I may be on that side) and in the other hand u can see people hating and saying destructives words about DT, and what makes me wonder is that some of those critics I've heard are so long and detailed, like if they'd be trying to convence someone to hae it too, and you cand notice that the people who writes it really knows DT and all of the albums, the members, even the signatures they use, they look like very experts on the subject, so I'll dare to say that they must be sort of repressive, jeaulos fans of DT

Anyways.... Mike, thanks for the explanation

Ps.: Sorry for my bad english.
Andrea

Mike - why do you feel you owe anyone an explaination. Don't let em know they get to you. That just feeds the beast!

Honestly, I am not a fan of the vox in that section, but I'm not a fan of James vox in some sections or Jordan's leads in others. So the fuck what!!! Its YOUR album and your expression so do what you do and thats the end of it. Complaining about music is beyond rediculous. If you dont like what you hear write your own shit... hell thats primarily why I am still in a band. I appreciate your care and attention to fans, but with that comes the abuse. Fortunately, it also comes with gratitude as well. And in that vein, THANK YOU for the instrumental mixes!!!! Just awesome!!!! Keep bringin that shit or I'll bitch about it on the interweb!!

Album version is the best IMO. The dual vox with James were wayyyy too busy. Ultimately the listener would be straining to hear one voice over the other.

I *love* A Nightmare To Remember, and wouldn't change a thing about it.

Salmacis


Album version is the best IMO. The dual vox with James were wayyyy too busy. Ultimately the listener would be straining to hear one voice over the other.

I *love* A Nightmare To Remember, and wouldn't change a thing about it.

I agree with the dual vocal thing, but I don't think the growling was needed, especially because the song ends happy.  The middle section of the song is so awesome that I think they really should have continued developing that.  Either way, great freakin song.

As for the bashing, it's really a shame to have to go through this with every release (and the bashing seems to be getting worse).  There are far more supports of you MP and most of us a grateful for everything you and the rest of DT does.

TrueSagan

goodforgolf


First of all, as a fan of Opeth, i LOVED that cookie monster version! Feel free to do that anytime, Mike. :) Secondly, I think the album version kicks ass, when I heard people complaining, I really didn't get it. I mean, the song IS called A Nightmare to Remember.... so I thought it was appropriate. maybe these guys want Bert and Ernie singing about their nightmares....

Lastly, thank you, thank you, thank you for breaking that down for us. That is so awesome that you would take the time to share that with us, what other band would ever do that? I feel bad that you felt you had to do it to defend yourself, but I'm glad I got the behind the scenes look.

So in the end, please don't give up doing those kinds of vocals Mike, they make DT that much more diverse, and in a metal song, I think it fits nicely. I didn't know you had it in you, if Akerfeldt ever calls it quits with Opeth, I expect you to take up the reigns. :)

*shudders*

heh... Sorry to scare you there. I hope Akerfeldt never calls it quits (if he does I would imagine Opeth would cease to exist), but I think I now more than ever want to see that "Akerfeldt/Portnoy/whoever the other guy was" project happen. I'd love to hear more of Mike's growling!

Those cookie monster vocals sound really good. Akerfeldt wouldve been awesome on them too. But may not have worked on the album as a whole I guess.

I think the vocals of this section on ANTR doesnt take away anything from the rest of the album. There is still the remaining 95% of the album which by and large sounds amazing.

So whether people like MPs vocals or not they still have the rest of the album to enjoy.

Its great that MP shared the story of the evolution of the vocals and the progression sounds intriguing. At the end the guys should be happy with all work they've put in this record.

As one of those 'older fans' from the PMU days, I still buy everything put out by the band, the live CDs/DVDs/official bootlegs... whether I enjoy the album or not(and there have only been 2 that I dont enjoy so much)

I wasn't going to post a response, because I don't want to look like I'm kissing up or whatever, but I just can't be silent about this. It may not be the case on this board, but the hateful bile that is spewed under the banner of an "opinion" is getting ridiculous. I think people just bitch and complain because it makes them feel superior. Whatever. I'm not going to try and figure it out and I won't say what I REALLY think about these kind of people because... well it will get me banned.

I'm not just a Dream Theater fan because of the music, but because of how MIKE.... not Jordan, not JM, not JP, not Jame... MIKE treats the fans. Honestly - it's what makes me love the band to the point that I'll buy ANYTHING they put out without hearing a note. Call me a "fanboy" if you want, but you'll just get the middle finger and a few choice words because you're just being an oppressive snob. I've never... ever seen an artist do so much for fans. I've also never seen an artist who gets his balls busted REPEATEDLY by the same people for the same things over and over again. Hey.... angels.... outside producer... ain't gonna happen. Just shut up about it. Princesses.... a return to I&W.... ain't gonna happen... wipe your asses and move on.

I'll be honest - Systematic Chaos wasn't my cup of tea ONLY because of the fiction lyrics... which Mike had nothing to do with. But do you know how much I attacked anyone in the band for it? Zero. Why? Because I'm not a jerk. I just listen to Constant Motion over and over and have a great day.

I think ALL the back up and additional vocal work on BC&SL is the best they've done in... well any album. The harmonies, the lead vocal discussed in this thread.... the whole thing... it just WORKS for me. In addition to the great vocal work, this album... to ME... has some of the best drumming Mike's done in a long time. And he ALWAYS owns it, but he was on fire for these sessions.

So... Mike... I'm sorry the jerks have hurt you with their "opinions". As LAME as I know this sounds (again.. I don't care anymore), pricks like that don't deserve all you give. I can't thank you enough for all you do for us.

The album owns and I love it. So does my wife and she's just a casual listener. We don't know you and I've only met you once (and I'll meet you again next month in ATL with my platninum package) but we don't just love the band... we love you and all you do for us. My wife and I felt the pain of TBOT and felt so much pride and happiness for you with the triumphant finale of the AA saga. As dumb as that sounds, we mean it.

Keep doing what you're doing and I'll keep buying every regular, special and limited collector's edition that you are somehow connected with.

Do I feel better? No. Because there are some asses that need to be kicked, but I'll let it go.

Hopefully I won't get banned.

thanks for everything Mike!!!

No fan can complain anything that comes from this band! They should just look at the mirror before saying any b*ush*t!!

Thanks again for the explanation! You tha man!!!

 You are truly amazing to your fans Mike!!  As for human beings in general, they are never ever completely happy with anything in life and it comes down to the unconsciousness of the ego and not living in the now!  Anyway I think that for every mile you give, they take 5.  Sadly this is human nature and when given the perfect opertunity to somehow try and get more (the internet/forums) or at least complain that they didn't get enough, alot people will take it without thinking twice because of the feeling/release their built-up ego gets after that moment.  Mr. Portnoy, I have never seen a musician of your caliber Give to the fans and work as hard as you do to try to keep them happy!!  I'm sorry for the low intellectual capacities of some people and i just hope you continue to make music for the rest of your life no matter what people may think or what they may want!  I wanna hear it, and so do another 5 million!! Thanks Mike. 

So who's gunna take the time to cut the cookiemonster vocals out and mix them with the rest of the stems for ANTR? :D

I honestly loved the cookie monster vocals. Freakin' hilarious and awesome. Thanks for posting em!

Portnoy


I knew my vocals in A Nighmare To Remember would surely spark some controversy...looks like I was right!  
 

Setlist Scotty


Mike, thank you for taking the time to give an explanation. Quite frankly, I'm extremely grateful that JP insisted on you not doing the full-on cookie monster thing. While not my thing, the vocals to that section are tolerable for me.

 
Michael,
 
Thank you for taking the time to stop by the forum and share with us what went on in the studio. I concur with Setlist Scotty, and I still stand by my previous comment (in another thread) "I don't like 'em, but in the end is DT's music, and you guys do what you see fit". We still buy the music. Don't we?
 
I trust you will continue to care for those who enjoy DT's music as you've done in the past. Hopefully we are "heavier" than the nay-sayers.

 

Just read all pages of this thread. forgot what I wanted to say....

Love you mike. dont always agree with you but im just a passenger, you're the captain.

Mike,

I gotta say....your post was impressive in so many ways man...not just for the sake of making an appearance in your forum here (which, btw, an artist appearance in their own forum is a real scarce rarity...you on the other hand are the exception to that rule, and for that alone, I thank you)

We've all had a taste of how hard you and the rest of DT work on each and every song....some of us much more than others...and some of us can only relate by way of what we see on bonus features on your DVD's or through your "Images & Words" book.  Either way, a lot of us will never FULLY understand all the work behind the creation, unless we're actually there every second you guys are there.  What I'm trying to get at is this....for what little I know about what all of you do behind the scenes....you sharing your message regarding ANTR, your sharing the mp3 samples of different variations of what was going through your head, and your explanations behind each, is so much more than ANY artist I have ever heard of even chatting about during some magazine interview.   Your understanding of your fans' reactions (good and bad) and doing your damndest to keep the masses satisfied with your work will never be fully understood Mike, as hard as we all try and want to understand!  Finally, to be able to speak to all of us, and say "My skin isn't so thick" and to express how reading forums and how the bashing can be hurtful at times....should show to everyone that you are indeed human.  Somewhere underneath the drums, the cymbals, the tats, and the Dream Theater name....is Mike Portnoy, the person.  Not many rock stars are so willing to step off the proverbial soap-box like this.  Mike....you have furthered my respect for you as a person...who just happens to be one helluva amazing artist/musician/drummer.
 
Thank you!
 
James Chatary

Won't get into this HUGE discussion. Only wanted to say that it's an interesting thread and somewhat sad at the same time as well that Mike has to justify how he/the band did things and why they chose to do it like that. The internet changed a LOT of things when it comes to people speaking up and expressing their opinion. Oh well :)

If anyone cares about my two cents (unlikely), I'll say this. I was indeed surprised when I heard that type of growling coming from DT. But was I disappointed? Of course not.

People seem to think that when a band changes or does something new that they don't like, that band is not living up to their expectations. But DT isn't supposed to live up to our expectations; they make music because they want to make music, not to please fans (though I'm sure that goes into the writing process).

This reminds me of how many people I've heard call themselves "dedicated fans" yet completely dislike Systematic Chaos. Can you be a dedicated fan and not support the band fully? What was so wrong with the album anyway? To me, DT changes a bit after every album; it's natural. Whether you like the changes or not, whatever. I've liked just about every DT album I've listened to (5 in all now; I'm still growing), and I absolutely loved Systematic Chaos, Train of Thought, and Images and Words. I'm a bit iffy on Awake, but you know what? I still love the band. And now I'm learning to love this new album; it will take a couple listens to sink in though, guys. Yeah, I was "shocked", but you know what? I thought it fit well with the song, as Mr. Portnoy mentioned. Keep making amazing music, Mr. Portnoy.

Well, at first, to me it sounded like you were trying to emulate on of your favorite bands. While it's normal that you get influenced by stuff you like, it doesn't mean it has to translate so literally into your music... I am not a fan of Opeth or any growling/death metal stuff, but I love your work (as a collective). It's one passage on a song, not a whole song of growling, so I can live with it. The song (and the whole album) rocks and I'm going to see you guys in Montreal in August. :)

I did not prefer the vocals, but that is the case with the harder stuff for me anyways.  I like DTs hard and dark side but sometimes not the too dark side. It may be the weakest spot on the album for me but by saying that, it's already higher than most other songs in the world.

Thank you Mike, my brother and I always talk about the commitment you and dream theater have to us. Don't forget that, seriously.

This is not sucking up either, it's the truth.  
 Take Care.

I don't know how to make it sound polite. I am a huge fan of this band, as I have grown up with it and I am very nostalgic about their whole career. It's just the music nearest to my heart like Pink Floyd may have been to my parents or others from that generation, but that part is just bad, and it doesn't matter what went into it or where it came from. The fact that most people on other sites have voiced their hate of it only means that people are afraid of voicing their opinion here.

They made a mistake. Everyone can live with it, it's not that big a deal, but I've already removed it from my version.

Maybe they'll learn from it and bring in a producer next album. This would never have happened with a producer to say if something is good or not, and producers have never gone wrong until they were phased out by Mike. Bring 'em back!

^^^

They made a "mistake"? Wow dude...

Wow, this is like, a 16 minute song and all this controversy over about 30 seconds of it!

Put me in the group who always enjoy Portnoy's vocals, I've always loved your parts in TGP and CM.  In this song (which did take a few listens to grow on me I admit) the huge roar at the end of your lead vocal and the badass riff which follows was one of the highlights of the song, pity that riff only lasts for about 10 seconds!  It's impossible to compare you with Akerfeldt, who is a master but this growl was far better than most metal singers can pull off.  By the way the drumming on this album is insanely good aswell, I guess you didn't like Gavin Harrison stealing your crown last time around!!

All of that being said how good is JLB on this album?  We don't want you taking over the vocals too much!!

Finally just to echo what everyone is saying and what I've said numerous times in the past you go way above and beyond what any musician does for their fans.  You are hugely loved and appreciated, the album is just incredible and take a leaf from Tool's book when dealing with ungrateful fans, tell them to "shut up and buy our new record!"

Keep it up Mike and can't wait for LTE boxset, PN09 and Transatlantic. 

I think it's cool, but i dont get the whole thing about singing that style to does lyrics.

TrueSagan


I don't know how to make it sound polite. I am a huge fan of this band, as I have grown up with it and I am very nostalgic about their whole career. It's just the music nearest to my heart like Pink Floyd may have been to my parents or others from that generation, but that part is just bad, and it doesn't matter what went into it or where it came from. The fact that most people on other sites have voiced their hate of it only means that people are afraid of voicing their opinion here.

They made a mistake. Everyone can live with it, it's not that big a deal, but I've already removed it from my version.

Maybe they'll learn from it and bring in a producer next album. This would never have happened with a producer to say if something is good or not, and producers have never gone wrong until they were phased out by Mike. Bring 'em back!

Are you seriously accusing people of hiding their opinion on this board? Plenty of people here said they don't like it, and plenty said they do, and plenty said it's ok. Just because people outside this board say one thing, doesn't mean you can accuse people of lying on this board. And they made a mistake???? Are you kidding me? A mistake is a wrong note, or missed hit, not something they intentionally wrote and recorded.

Epitaph04


^^^

They made a "mistake"? Wow dude...

Was the St. Anger snare a mistake? Yes, because everyone hated it. Was the mixing on Vapour Trails a mistake? Yes, because everyone hated it. Are the vocals on ANTR a mistake? As far as I can see on most forums, the reaction has been overwhelmingly negative with people making fun of it and parodying it left and right. I'd say it was a mistake.

You don't know how bad I wish you were joking man.

TrueSagan

This would never have happened with a producer to say if something is good or not, and producers have never gone wrong until they were phased out by Mike. Bring 'em back!

Wow.


Seriously?

TrueSagan

Epitaph04


^^^

They made a "mistake"? Wow dude...

Was the St. Anger snare a mistake? Yes, because everyone hated it. Was the mixing on Vapour Trails a mistake? Yes, because everyone hated it. Are the vocals on ANTR a mistake? As far as I can see on most forums, the reaction has been overwhelmingly negative with people making fun of it and parodying it left and right. I'd say it was a mistake.

And if what you're saying is going to make almost everyone laugh, could it be considered a mistake? Would that make it change your mind? What if you're deeply convinced in what you're saying, but everyone would find it laughable, would you be a good little lamb and shut the fuck up?

I hope you'd carry on telling people what you think respectfully, not trying to prove what is "good" or "bad", because there's no such thing in music. That's the beauty of it, and the whole fucking point.

Magical Man

TrueSagan

Epitaph04


^^^

They made a "mistake"? Wow dude...

Was the St. Anger snare a mistake? Yes, because everyone hated it. Was the mixing on Vapour Trails a mistake? Yes, because everyone hated it. Are the vocals on ANTR a mistake? As far as I can see on most forums, the reaction has been overwhelmingly negative with people making fun of it and parodying it left and right. I'd say it was a mistake.

And if what you're saying is going to make almost everyone laugh, could it be considered a mistake? Would that make it change your mind? What if you're deeply convinced in what you're saying, but everyone would find it laughable, would you be a good little lamb and shut the fuck up?

I hope you'd carry on telling people what you think respectfully, not trying to prove what is "good" or "bad", because there's no such thing in music. That's the beauty of it, and the whole fucking point.

Well I'm not going to argue with you, I didn't resort to any profanity in my posts, and neither should you.

Don't worry, I won't return to this thread, you guys can keep living in politically correct world.

First of all...sorry for my english.
Mike, you don't have to justify to us your work, your ideas and your emotions, we can like or dislike it but still remains your work, your ideas and your emotions. I could only thank you for what DT done in the past, are doing now and will do in the future. A long future I hope!
I would like to thank you too for "The Best Of Times", I really feel this song...my mom died tragically two months before your dad and this song is just a little similar to a letter that I wrote to her...thank you
I hope you'll play it when you'll come in Italy.