The story behind my vocals on "A Nightmare To Remember"

Should've just had JMX do vox.

ssaammaael


My opinion on this matter:

1. The album version of the vocals are the best indeed.
4. Mike's explanation, is just an example of what makes DT my second favourite band (LTE is number one). No other band take care of his fans like DT.

Great opinions you have here!

WHAT
THE
FUCK?!


It's come to this?!
Fuck man, Never Enough springs to mind.

Unfortunately there's not an mp3 of a JLB version, but lets be serious, would you be able to take the song seriously? It needs the mood that Mike sets going in to the big finish.
Call me a brown noser or whatever, but the vox in this section are perfect.

People seriously need to broaden their horizons, as DT over the past 20+ years have changed with every single album, and 'cookie monster' vocals don't fit in to DT's description?
Cookie monster vox? Are people being serious, if you call them that, you need to check out some deathcore/metalcore etc. and see what REAL cookie monster vox are like.


On another serious note MP. The mp3 of you doing the Akerfeldt style growls just shows that you seriously need to have a balls-to-the-wall death metal project. Haha

I love the part on the song when you come in MP. Every time I listen to the song it seems I'm waiting to hear that part. I love it. 

Obviously its dumb that you have to justify yourself but I think everyone here respects your work and your decisions. I think part of being a wicked band is having people that don't agree with everything you do, but you go right ahead and do it anyways. Those that love it really love it, and those that don't don't. 

Thanks for all you do Mike. You da man.

I tried reading through the entire thread before posting but I had to stop at page 2. From what I've seen, though, nearly everyone is agreeing that they love ANTR and you, MP, are amazing. Honestly, you shouldn't have to make a post like this in retaliation to all the negativity. But I guess this shows the amount of negativity out there, which sucks.

I didn't like the vocals the first time I heard them because I didn't understand why they were there. This post actually makes me like them now, haha. Seeing the creative process, what could have been, and now the final product makes that section much more interesting and makes me realize the vocals do fit.

I think the only thing you guys can do is not let yourselves get affected by the negativity... easier said than done, but just don't finish reading the post if it turns to bashing. Nothing good can come out of it, and you don't want "fans" that can't appreciate your hard work and what you offer. Not worth getting worked up over them

I respect your decision-making but I dislike the end product.

What I'm really missing is how in the the old days the group had a KICKASS metal vibe with James's vocals.

I have to say that every time I hear Mike's vocals in this section, I can't help the "metal smile" that creeps up on my face!  I love the "HUAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH" at the end too.  Very metal.  Very fitting. Perfection.

I agree with the individual who said that Mike should take on a Akerfeldt approach saying "F" off once in a while.  I certainly would...

MustaineHead


I am not here to piss on anything or anyone. So I will keep my mouth shut about what I think of the new album. But for me there is one big problem with 'new' DT muisc and that is (and of course it's not that I want more growl):

"In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow"

lol. Why on Earth would he ask John Myung? JP wrote the lyrics.

Don't listen to the hater's, their just the vocal minority.

ANTR is IMHO the best DT song in the last 5 albums. I love every bit of it. I love how it keeps reinventing itself, smoothly transitioning from one theme to the next. It takes chances and steps into new territory for the band. I would have loved to hear Akerfeldt or MP's death vox on there, but as it is, it still gets the intensity and feeling across.

uberDTfreak


What I'm really missing is how in the the old days the group had a KICKASS metal vibe with James's vocals.

 
Funny, I think that's kind of come back with this album. James seems to have that edge back to him that seemed to disappear for a while, like in the choruses of Lie. Haven't heard him sing like that again until now.

Ya can't win with all the people all the time, definitely.

Personally, I really like the cookie monster vox. You sound badass.

The final version is cool. I accepted it, not my hands down favorite DT moment, but it was part of the song, and as a whole the entire song was badass. And shit, you guys tried something new. Cool on you guys.

BTW, MP - The Best of Times brought my mom and I to tears this morning. She was 41 when her mother passed away (last February) and when it happened, The Spirit Carries On is the one thing that kept me from being a total mess in that time, and when I spoke some of the lyrics at her funeral every single person in the audience was touched. It was an absolutely cathartic moment that your music gave me, and now, with The Best of Times, you made me and my mom think back to all the amazing times, and I thank you. The song really made me appreciate the time I had with my grandmother, and the time I'm spending now with all of my family and loved ones. Much respect.     

dimedizzle

MustaineHead


I am not here to piss on anything or anyone. So I will keep my mouth shut about what I think of the new album. But for me there is one big problem with 'new' DT muisc and that is (and of course it's not that I want more growl):

"In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow"

lol. Why on Earth would he ask John Myung? JP wrote the lyrics.

Huh?

lukebuckland


I feel bad that you have to defend yourself, Your Album is your music, it's want you want us to hear, not what we want you to write, I want to hear your ideas.

Be happy knowing that the amount of "slammers" is Negligable compared to those who have the utmost respect for what you do in DT and other projects.

My thoughts exactly!!! You don't have to defend yourself Mike... You made the artistic statement you wanted to make. Stand by it and hold your head high!!!  You are never going to please everybody.

 I have never been a fan of "cookie monster" vocals. I just don't find them musical, they are just so over the top dynamically that it ruins it for me. I really love what you have done in the final version (along with other songs, ie CM and TDEN), in that you have brought it back to a level that is still really powerful and heavy, but not so over the top that it takes away from the song musically.

Nice Work MP!!!

joshua12

dimedizzle

MustaineHead


I am not here to piss on anything or anyone. So I will keep my mouth shut about what I think of the new album. But for me there is one big problem with 'new' DT muisc and that is (and of course it's not that I want more growl):

"In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow"

lol. Why on Earth would he ask John Myung? JP wrote the lyrics.

Huh?

His problem is that JP and MP discussed it and not the whole band, but the person writing the lyrics comes up with the melody. Petrucci wrote the lyrics and so had the melody. Mike wanted to change it. Why would he ask JM or anyone else if it was okay to change the melody for JP's lyrics? Can't be that hard to understand. I'm sure if one of the other guys came forth with a suggestion John would consider it as if MP had brought it forth.

Mike,
I had nothing against the final product, but after hearing the demos you posted, I like it even more! BTW where the hell did you learn how to growl?! I'm quite impressed  
 
On a side note, where does one draw the line between "expressing an opinion" and "bashing" on a forum? Is it safe to say that some people really do take it too far? Now Mike's feelings are hurt!
 
Come on, drummers have feelings too. I wish some people could be a little more considerate, regardless of how the music sounds.

You should perform the different versions live every now and then. A little bit of flexibility like that can be fun. And if you're all feeling really crunchy and heavy, bust out the little Akerfeldts and grunt away!

It baffles me that as the member of DT (or any band for that matter) that must be one of the most fan-driven musicians in the industry, I am so slammed by our "fans"...while other artists (who will go unnamed) that could care less our fans are put on a pedestal....sorry, I am still human and can read these forums and it indeed hurts sometimes...

 
In a hugely ironic twist, I daresay that you get "slammed" because your fans see you as available, and know that they will be heard. No point in bashing someone who will never see it. Seems a trifle ridiculous to me to not offer you the same amount of respect as you receive in 'bashing', but maybe that's just me. Actually, I know and am thankful that it's not just me.
 
You are one of a kind MP and we ALL appreciate your level of committment to us as fans.

I actually kinda prefer the "cookie monster" vocals over the finished product, and to be honest I HATE cookie monster vocals in general. And I agree that JLB's vocals didn't really fit in the section.

Thanks for posting up the sound samples, thats an awesome thing to have!

I never hardly comment on threads that mikes done but i just feel like i have to in this one so here it goes..

Can't understand how people can knock 5 of the best instrumentalists in the world??
and these people that are slagging him off?
what have they ever done? because i gurantee its NOTHING..
They always have something to moan about, thats what really pisses me off! No matter what you do you will always get slated and thats the terrible thing about it !
This is the perfect album in so many ways!
Six Degrees was my favorite album but now im not so sure after hearing this! every1 of these guys i feel were unbelivable!

I don't know if you read every post on here but ill just put it anyway

Mike your doing a great job, The drumming was perfect and your voice was quality.. Fits like a peach!
Keep up the good work which is writing great memorable music.. Being able to let us see you play and just being great guys!

keep it up buddy

dimedizzle

joshua12

dimedizzle

MustaineHead


I am not here to piss on anything or anyone. So I will keep my mouth shut about what I think of the new album. But for me there is one big problem with 'new' DT muisc and that is (and of course it's not that I want more growl):

"In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow"

lol. Why on Earth would he ask John Myung? JP wrote the lyrics.

Huh?

His problem is that JP and MP discussed it and not the whole band, but the person writing the lyrics comes up with the melody. Petrucci wrote the lyrics and so had the melody. Mike wanted to change it. Why would he ask JM or anyone else if it was okay to change the melody for JP's lyrics? Can't be that hard to understand. I'm sure if one of the other guys came forth with a suggestion John would consider it as if MP had brought it forth.

I think the "huh?" comes from you mentioning JM in your post. MP makes NO mention of JM at all, so you're mentioning him seems completely random. As for MP wanting to change it, he is one of the producers, and as such is looking for what he feels is best for the song. So he and JP (the other producer AND lyricist on this song) discussed it and tried a number of different approaches. I fail to see what issues or difficulty you have in understanding that.

joshua12

uberDTfreak


What I'm really missing is how in the the old days the group had a KICKASS metal vibe with James's vocals.

 
Funny, I think that's kind of come back with this album. James seems to have that edge back to him that seemed to disappear for a while, like in the choruses of Lie. Haven't heard him sing like that again until now.

Yeah.  I don't get how his voice somehow isn't heavy enough for songs like these and others need to mess with his role.

I must say I really liked the melodic James vocal in the background, but the cookie monster vocals by Mike was indeed too much in that clip. What would really have been interesting is the final version of Mike's vocal together with James clean vocal in the background.

I actually think the cookie monster growls sounded decent, but it'd be more suitable for a straight 90's death metal song rather than the climax of a progressive metal epic. I actually like the one that they went with the best for this section. It sounds the most angry and intense.

Yaaaaaaay. I like the cookie monster version. (It is quite better than the one I done and posted earlier on, haha.)

That should have been on the album. It doesn't fit the lyrics much. Though the thing with fitting is overrated -- I can imagine someone in real life saying these words while displaying similar emotions. And anything else would have ruined the music in that section.

It's a shame that JP didn't like the best version.

When I first listened to the song I expected a cookie monster vocal section to kick in. And I felt they were coming when that section started. Though the final version is also OK...

VarmVaffel


I must say I really liked the melodic James vocal in the background, but the cookie monster vocals by Mike was indeed too much in that clip. What would really have been interesting is the final version of Mike's vocal together with James clean vocal in the background.

THIS.

I like both the Final and The Cookie monster version.  And this is why I love you Mike, because you are down to earth! 

A fan from the Philippines!

I was skeptical at first when I heard about the growls, after hearing others bash it. Once I popped in the CD, it was all good, it actually fit well.Now if you did that in Wither, I would have been confused. But it fit well in the dark sound

Setlist Scotty

dimedizzle

joshua12

dimedizzle

MustaineHead


I am not here to piss on anything or anyone. So I will keep my mouth shut about what I think of the new album. But for me there is one big problem with 'new' DT muisc and that is (and of course it's not that I want more growl):

"In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow"

lol. Why on Earth would he ask John Myung? JP wrote the lyrics.

Huh?

His problem is that JP and MP discussed it and not the whole band, but the person writing the lyrics comes up with the melody. Petrucci wrote the lyrics and so had the melody. Mike wanted to change it. Why would he ask JM or anyone else if it was okay to change the melody for JP's lyrics? Can't be that hard to understand. I'm sure if one of the other guys came forth with a suggestion John would consider it as if MP had brought it forth.

I think the "huh?" comes from you mentioning JM in your post. MP makes NO mention of JM at all, so you're mentioning him seems completely random. As for MP wanting to change it, he is one of the producers, and as such is looking for what he feels is best for the song. So he and JP (the other producer AND lyricist on this song) discussed it and tried a number of different approaches. I fail to see what issues or difficulty you have in understanding that.

Um... I don't have any difficulties understanding that, infact you just echoed what I said. Did you even read my post? I used JM as an example and because it would seem completely random for MP to ask him instead of JP, hence you thought it was random... I guess you read that part but missed it's meaning. I could have put "JM for example" but I thought people would understand what was being said. I can't make it any clearer so you might have to read it all this time.

This case has nothing to do with how JP and MP seem to run the rest of the show which is what the original post was getting at, and so it's just a typical "lolol weerez teh awak2??" with absolutely no thought put into it.

some "fans" should just shut there pieholes... like mom always said if you have nothing nice to say then dont say anything at all.

awsome album top 3 in my DT collection!!!!!!

Wow Mike talk about caring for your fans etc...I feel bad for you to have to come and explain your art when really it's your (and your band) expression and not a paid work that was expected to be delieve at some standard or something.

Personally I'm not a fan of growls in general; for instance I'm digging the band Unexpect but those growls stop them from being one of my favorite band but again it has nothing to do with a single person it is more of a personal taste... I rather screams like Mynard James Keenan or Serj Tankian. Regardless; when I heard ANTR I just didn't let something that I don't like ruin a whole song which is btw very good. You are right That part HAD to be heavy both lyrically and musically and that's why I dig it even though I'm not a fan of growls in general. Then again I really dig your backing vocals...those in the mellow part of this song for instance are amazing.

The most important thing is that you keep making the music YOU want and how YOU want it and talk about whatever the fvck you want to talk about.  That's what I want to hear when I listen to DT I want to hear musicians making the music they like. Whether people like it or not shouldn't be part of the equation. Keep up the good work and know that not all of the fans are bashers... Some of us really appreciate DT's music ;)

Mike,even though i am not a fan of `Cookie Monster` vocals i respect your artistic choice to use them,please know that for every git who bad mouths you there are a hundred REAL fans who think you are a great person who works tirelessly for the band and us fans,keep it up buddy!
          Carpe Diem!
P.S. Black Clouds and the covers cd are excellent! Well Done mate!

uberDTfreak


I respect your decision-making but I dislike the end product.

What I'm really missing is how in the the old days the group had a KICKASS metal vibe with James's vocals.

I agree with this completely.

n1n3th1rt33n

Should've just had JMX do vox.

In Korean, too!

I've not heard the album yet (still waiting on the mail argh), and I haven't read any of the negative stuff.... I try to steer clear of album threads as I don't like spoilers.... the only thing that comes to mind in reading your post is... WOW, I would have never dreamed you would be so bashed for vocals. I think you have an awesome voice clean or dirty, and I really really like your natural range when you double things, or even sing an echo part. I'd love to hear more trading of lead vocals between you guys. I'm one of those who loves the first half of Repentance and ends up skipping the rest after the solo (I'm sorry it's just me... lol... you should definitely not go thinking about what I like when you write songs lol), but your intro vocal part is my favorite part of the song other than the guitar solo. I can't imagine people bashing you for singing.

I was actually watching some DT DVD stuff with my mom a couple weeks ago and she kept commenting how good a singer you are.... I'd definitely not worry about the few vocal people who think they should be in DT and aren't even likely in their own band.... It's like the Michael Jackson thing... everyone watched the news so everyone knows exactly what kind of man he was... you know... everyone is an expert at everything. Yea...

I'll listen to the mp3s after I hear the album, but I don't need to to know that you have a great voice and have become a really great singer over the last 12 or so years in particular... You were always good, but your progress is absolutely measurable on live recordings. From good to great... most of your detractors are not even good and the ones that are have an ironic ego problem.

Part of me thinks you shouldn't have explained a thing to anyone... it's not their band and thus not their decision... as musicians we put ourselves out there with everything we do and someone always thinks they are better, yet we're the ones who live our lives and practice our instruments knowing full well there is always somebody better... and so often those that are the most better than us are the ones who would find great things in what we do and compliment us on them. But, one of the reasons why DT is such a fan driven entity is the way you do explain these things so it makes sense too. I just love how people read a book, a few posts, and watch a few DVDs and they think they know all your deepest darkest secrets and every aspect of your heart. Isn't western celebrity culture fun? Oh boy. Worship then destroy...

I say... sing a whole song on the next album... really piss them off! LOL

 

 If it makes you feel better, i don't bash you.  Lol.  You are GOD in my eyes. =D  
Anyways, quoting the Count of Tuscany in the OP doesn't get your point across, it just makes people laugh. =D.  sorry for that.
But I think that the cookie monster vocals kinda fit that section.  And trust me, don't feel sad, because there are tons more people who like what you do that don't like what you do. 
And remember "It's okaay to feel seeaaaddd sometimes." lol
KEEP UP THE AWESOME WORK DUDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Cool, I cant wait for the special collector's edition 10 CD box set of alternate vocals of this song.

Great post MP! Nice to see the reasoning behind it.

I really like the Cookie Monster vocals the best. You pulled them off really fucking well, and it would have been an interesting flavor to see DT take on.    

The Man Has Spoken!
 
I've always loved it, to be honest. The first time I heard it I was like "omg Portnoy is singing a lead! That's AWESOME!"