The story behind my vocals on "A Nightmare To Remember"

I love the vocals the way they are ! kinda reminds me of GWAR which is a good thing ! Cant wait to see you sing them live Mike !

I love the album version and have no complaints, but reading that you almost had Akerfeldt do it makes me wish you really did. That would have been awesome!! Perhaps have him guest during PN09-EU? And record/release it?

Mr. Mike Portnoy:

I RESPECT YOU. 

At first, I wasn't sure what to think when I heard the part, but it's grown on me tremendously. I can't wait to sing along live. 

Portnoy


JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...

I know it wasn't MP's intention to be comical, but that line kind of cracked me up...

I certainly can't argue with Opeth inspiration!  Was Opeth/Watershed also the inspiration for the blast beats in ANtR?

Mike,
Thanks for sharing the mp3 files.
Your level of commitment toward us fans is amazing and that’s just one of the factors that made DT and you to be where you are now.
Thanks for once again keep thinking about what DT fans are interested in seeing (studio footage, bonus discs, isolated tracks, etc, etc…).
Thanks for being the artist you are and for doing what you do.
I personally love the album and your vocal part, I really think that many fans out there just have to understand that these cool vocal parts fits in a musical context.
Hope to see you live here in Brazil!
Rock on!
 

While I thought the final vocal section was a bit jarring to me when I heard it, I admit that it was the best compromise for the song. After hearing the counterpoint version, I can see why MP wanted to have a heavier vocal section. That was a pretty good discussion on how that vocal section came to be. Too bad, the cookie vocals couldn't have stayed in. I thought it worked in the song better and I didn't think it was too radical. But I rather have what came to be over the clean vocals that were orignally going to be in the song. I'm probably still not going to be a hugest fan of the vocals in that section, but at the end of the day you're not going to please everybody. And I'm still a huge fan of the song and I'll get use to the vocals and I might grow to like them. Plus, I think it was cool that Mike told us about the vocals in that section and how he felt about this situation. Mike, just keep doing what you're doing because you do a helluva job at it and don't ever feel bad at what a few DT fans might say. Most of us love what you guys do and we thank you very much for it.

i think the vocals in the hole album are amasing, and the bashers should remember that dream theater has evolved and we wouldn't hear images and words again, and i think this is for the best, a band that dont change and remains the same, dont give anything new to music, so that cleared up, i love this new dream theater aproach and mike portnoy is one of the very best musicians in the world, so he can do what ever he want with his music.

Mike, I can´t explain how much I respect you.

Your statement ensures us once again that DT´s music is so much about emtions, even if the emotions always aren´t everyones cup of the they´re still very thought out. And I love it as it is!

But... "You can´t please them all"

Wow, that first version sounds cool!!! I like it much better than the final version.

Any chance to give us just the cookie stem, so we can properly mix it with the instrumental?:)) 

I actually really like James' singing in that one demo. Not a fan of the growling, but it's pretty cool how these clips are shared! Thanks.

It's ok Mike you can say it without trying to remain Politically Correct.  Dont wanna say it?  I'll say it for you........

If you dont like Mike's vocals in A Nightmare To Remember than you're just a PUSSY!  You obviouslly dont like heavy metal and probably lean towards Progressive Rock or just Rock and that's ok, but you have to understand DT have many sides to them and one of those sides is metal and it's huge!  You were going to get a growl!

I think it fits like a charm, and listening to the other versions now im glad you went with the one that's out.  Not to be all fan boy or anything, but ANTR is my favorite DT song of all time since the day i first heard it.

Also, it sucks that you had to come out and defend yourself and did it so eloquently as you did with  the mp3's and such.  It's awesome that you did, but you shouldnt have done that.

=)

Setlist Scotty


Mike, thank you for taking the time to give an explanation. Quite frankly, I'm extremely grateful that JP insisted on you not doing the full-on cookie monster thing. While not my thing, the vocals to that section are tolerable for me. And I can totally see what you're saying regarding you and James doing counterpoint vocals - way too confusing. Assuming that James' vocals in the counterpoint sample would've been the same in the sample not available (but without your vocals), I can also see why you took issue with them and how it would soften up the music too much. I guess the one option I personally would've like to have seen is James doing forceful vocals with you doubling them (similar to what you guys did beginning at 4:00 in ANtR "Without warning...") Nonetheless, seeing how things developed regarding this section is very interesting and much appreciated.

In any case, as I said to you early on, this album is amazing and IMO the best thing you guys have done in quite some time, and I stand by the statement!

I am one who agrees with Setlist. I have not been able to get the cookie monster vocals. I really like Opeth minus the vocal growling.
The final version is very thought out and you took time to explore different options before going with what you went with.
I like it!!!
 
PS Scotty, where are those shirts we talked about at LTE in Downey? I really want one!

Sorry Mike! :(

Come to think of it, scotty owes me stuff too  lol

Hey Mike!  (like I really think you're going to end up reading this)

I am a Cookie-Monster-voice hater.  But it really fits with the "feel" of the song.

Sometimes it completely ruins the song for me, other times, a little bit here and there works.
(Ayreon has used them once or twice. Though you would think it doesn't fit the music, somehow it works)

In this case IT WORKS!  (for me anyways)

Thanks for explaining the process, though you shouldn't have to explain why certain creative decisions were made.  If they don't like it, f**k em!

I've been a DT fan from the very early days (bought WDADU on cassette because the guy in the record store thought I might like it) and have had instances where I initially thought "WTF did they do THAT for?" 
("Great debate" comes to mind) but have always ended up absolutely LOVING it after a couple of listens!

I've come to trust what you guys do!  No matter how extreme, I end up liking it!  That's why DT is and always will be, my favorite band! 

(sorry to hear that "respect" is not in everyone's skill-set. You have all of mine!)

 

"The thought crossed my mind to ask Mikael himself to do it himself"



Jesus Christ that would have been incredible. I would have taken an album version of that, and you doing the current album version on tours.

Wow, those cookie monster vocals sounded very nice, I wouldn't have minded hearing them on the final song.

I'll try not to kiss ass, but you really can see with posts like this (and the recent apology to STEVETHEATER for example) how MP really deserves a ton of respect for acting the way he does. Fame and fortune don't seem to affect him as a person

Thanks for commenting and showing us the other examples.  I think your vocal approach was definitely the right way to go.  I might be among 50% of the board that actually like a lot of death/black metal bands but I didn't think the "cookie monster" vocals  fit too well (though I did like James doing a higher vocal line....then again, I'm a James fanboy).

I actually kinda dig the vocals you went with because it reminds me of Sacred Reich.  Still, I am indifferent for the most part though I think they may be growing on me more.

You don't have to justify your music, Mike! :)

But I do think it's awesome of you to have provided those clips! Interesting stuff!

MMhardKy

Wow, that first version sounds cool!!! I like it much better than the final version.

Any chance to give us just the cookie stem, so we can properly mix it with the instrumental?:))

I agree, that would be very cool! I prefer the cookie approach to the album version.

If I heard the first link elsewhere, it would have sounded like any other death metal band to me (as in I wouldn't have had any of those typical "DT + this voice = wtf" sentiments, although I personally hadn't made up my mind yet which is a good thing now that i see this thread).

Those were some legit \m/ vox by Mike, but I understand why they were taken out.  All those attempts behind the final product makes me appreciate it so much more.  Thanks Mike!

Man, this really wasn't necessary. Who the fuck are we to tell you what to do? You didn't have to defend yourself like this with all the ''evidence'' and stuff. If people bash on you more than what you think is tolerable and excusable then dodn' feel bad about it. cause it's propably their incapability to be satisfied to blame. Go back to ''we 're on tour babe!'' mode and log off the web for a couple days. It's actually kinda shocking how much you care about everyfuckingbody's opinion. Not all of us deserve this much attention.

Yes, you wanted growly vocals because it fits the music - I can see that. But the lyrics?  Right.  DUUUR this is a miracle, it's a blessing everyone survived, GROWL.  You'd growl if everyone died violently, which, using this logic, would have been a more fitting story.  James' softer vocals would have been more fitting with what is essentially a happy ending.  It just makes no sense to sound aggressive over something that has a happy, miracle-fueled ending.

P.S. - ERT

RJPass


If you dont like Mike's vocals in A Nightmare To Remember than you're just a PUSSY!  You obviouslly dont like heavy metal and probably lean towards Progressive Rock or just Rock...

That's not necessarily true.

For example, I don't particularly love that section of the song, however, its not because I don't like growls.  Its because I don't think its heavy ENOUGH =).  When I first heard it, my immediate reaction was "This would sound so cool if they got Mikael Akerfeldt to do it!" although, after hearing MP's heavier growling version, I think he sounds awesome and I think the original version with the heavier growls would've sounded way cool.

I generally like growling, I just tend to prefer it to be an "all or nothing" sort of thing.  (i.e., I've never been a huge fan of the "semi-growling" approach - I've always thought it sounded kind of nu-metalish).  I am, however, hoping that we occasionally get treated to some all-out death growls from MP when the song is performed live.  He's a pretty good growler, so I'm hoping he gets to take advantage of that talent :)

Mike, think you can upload a wav of JUST you (without the backing track) doing the growling version?

I didn't care for the way it was on the CD, but I think I could work with the original version when I get around to doing my mixes.

When the album details were announced, I felt slightly sad that we would not get a full behind the scenes documentary DVD (at least at the release date) as the previous releases (including the Ytsejam release of the Scenes writing process) were extremely informative and added to my appreciation of the efforts of the entire band.  Being able to hear these clips really brightened my day and reminded me why I respect you guys so much.  Thanks a bunch.

The final version does appear to be the best of the bunch, showing the collaborative process is still working well in the studio.  I personally would tweak it a bit more, but it isn't my album and my ideas aren't going to match those of other fans anyway.  Besides, we want you to make the songs they way that satisfies the members of the band the most.   If you guys aren't fully happy with the output, then what is the point of writing the songs in the first place?  The fact that we are taking the effort to dissect the song at all should tell you that you have created something that fans think is worth listening to, no matter what the tone of the comments are.  I know I find ANTR to be the most entertaining song of a very fulfilling album.

Mike,

  I want you to know that I love and appreciate everything that you and Dream Theater do!  No hate from this fan, for sure!!!  You guys have helped me through some very difficult times in my life.  I THANK YOU for your art!!!  Know that while negativity surely exists, there is a lot of positive respect for you as well!

Good luck with the current tour and I sincerely hope that Black Clouds & Silver Linings brings you guys continued success and growth!!!

Thank you again!!!

- Jonesy

I liked the death vocals!
But you're the one writing all the brilliant music, so I'll enjoy just about anything you put out

I think the right choice was made here. Don't bother with the nay-sayers MP, keep doing what you love!! I'll keep listening.

Can't wait to see the band on July 28th!!!!

It saddens me to read the bashing of such a gifted and talented musician. Sometimes, it comes across to me as spoilt, like a spoilt kid constantly demanding from their parents. Im sure Mike, a person who takes his fans very seriously, loves constructive criticism and the insight of the people who buy his music. Mike is a perfectionist and so listening to these people makes him strive to be better and produce better music and thats great and shows what a genuine and humble person he is when arrogance and ego are so often the result of success. There are some musicians out there who frankly couldnt give a shit. Having an opinion and what you like and dislike is what he and the others want to hear but so much of the time it is worded in a disrespectful and derogatory way completely disregarding the fact that Mike and all the others put 100% into the creation of their music each and every time. For that, and everything else Mike has achieved and given us as fans, he deserves a great deal of respect, especially when giving an opinion. The process of making music is an unpredictable and exciting journey and when you are exploring a bracket of music that is so wide, so open like Dream Theater's is, you are inevitably going to encounter conflicts of taste and Im sure Mike and most people are absolutely aware and cool with that. What really gets to me is the people who disregard the music that DT release that doesnt quite suit their taste and then categorize it as 'going off the boil' or 'losing the plot' and launch into a series of attacks on Mike and the band which are totally not deserved. In my honest opinion, I think DT is one of the most consistent bands around in terms of the quality of the product they release, but I dont like everything they have released but I respect that the stuff i dont like, other people do. People need to show more respect to a guy who does nothing but try to please people with his art. I always think of the song 'Never Enough' when I read such sour comments like some that have been posted. It really, really rings true.

Now onto the analysis. I think its very cool that you broke that down for us Mike and ultimately I think you probably made the wisest decision and also very humble for you to stick your neck out to justify the artistic decisions you made, even though you really dont have to. I know I definitly appreciate it and im sure so many others here do too. 

I too am totally digging the new album and it has some truly memorable, beautiful moments and melodies.

I am one that embraced MPs vocals when I first heard it, I mean, that section just calls for METAL VOCALS. I did enjoy the cookie vocals, obiviously it just doesnt fit for a DT song, but MP should do a metal side project where he sings, I'll buy that ticket :)

Mike, you don't have to 'Justify' ANYTHING. Period.

I rarely post in these kind of threads, but I feel as though I need to add my two penneth since I voted along the lines on 'it's not my favourite part, but I can live with it'.

I'm in the Setlist Scotty camp of preferring my music to be cookie-monster free, but that doesn't mean I am averse to heavy vocals, when appropriate. These ones don't offend me (of the three they're my preferred option); I would have liked to hear James doing something aggressive doubling with MP here so it didn't seem quite so much out of left field when it arrived. I.e. use MP to thicken and harden the sound rather than account for all of it! But there's no denying (IMHO) that it does truly work.

However, my main reason for posting is that I 100% agree that the music calls for heavy vocals at this point and I just cannot understand the numerous posts I have seen stating that vocals shouldn't be heavy in a 'happy' section of the song. I just don't get how this is a 'happy' section of the song.

Sure no-one died, but since when does that make things happy? Life must be in a sorry state if simply not dying means we should be happy. I think we can infer from the way the doctor tells him 'not to worry' and 'looks away', things were pretty bad.

I interpret that section as being, as truly terrible an experience it was (one that still haunts me now, years later), the only blessing is that we escaped with our lives. If people were badly injured, in the hospital and his father 'such a mess', to my mind this is not a happy verse.

That's me,
K x

OMFG MP's growling kicks serious ass!!
I think it sound a lot better with the growls, would have been really cool like that, but it's fine the way it is either.

good post mike. thanks for clearing that up.

Thanks so much for this.  Very cool to have a behind the scenes look at what happened during recording.  I completely agree with Mike on the complementing vocals between he and James.  To me, James just sounds better clean and sounds strange trying to growl it up.  Mike growls it up very well, although (to me) his clean parts sound a bit out of character.
 
Together, it sounds great.  And it makes a huge difference live b/c I remember when John and Mike did not sing and it did not sound as good as it does now. 
 
It's about taking everyone's strengths and making it work for the song.
 
Although...
 

Portnoy

the truth is *anybody* can sing...it's all about having personailty and emotion in the expression... )  

Mike -- have you seen the early rounds of American Idol?  Not everyone can sing :)
And to the haters...
 
"All you motherfuckers are gonna pay. You are the ones who are the ball-lickers. We're gonna fuck your mothers while you watch and cry like little bitches."
 

My opinion on this matter:

1. The album version of the vocals are the best indeed.
2. I still don't like that part of the song. That doesn't mean that ANTR isn't awesome. For me, there is no such thing like a bad DT song.
3. I think that growling isn't something that fits DT's music. And I'm a death metal lover.
4. Mike's explanation, is just an example of what makes DT my second favourite band (LTE is number one). No other band take care of his fans like DT.
5. Last: I'm happy because DT always try to do new things.