The story behind my vocals on "A Nightmare To Remember"

Mike, thank you for taking the time to give an explanation. Quite frankly, I'm extremely grateful that JP insisted on you not doing the full-on cookie monster thing. While not my thing, the vocals to that section are tolerable for me. And I can totally see what you're saying regarding you and James doing counterpoint vocals - way too confusing. Assuming that James' vocals in the counterpoint sample would've been the same in the sample not available (but without your vocals), I can also see why you took issue with them and how it would soften up the music too much. I guess the one option I personally would've like to have seen is James doing forceful vocals with you doubling them (similar to what you guys did beginning at 4:00 in ANtR "Without warning...") Nonetheless, seeing how things developed regarding this section is very interesting and much appreciated.

In any case, as I said to you early on, this album is amazing and IMO the best thing you guys have done in quite some time, and I stand by the statement!

You know, I don't think I've ever directly asked you a question before(and I've been here since'98)  But I gotta say it:  What are the chances of getting the "cookie monster voice" separate for those of us with the Producer's Edition to play around with?

Anywho, thanks for taking the time to give us an explanation you never owed us in the first place.  My copy hasn't arrived yet, but I'm looking forward to wearing out my cd player with it!

Mike, thank you so much for being nice. I see a lot of musicians that don't care about their fans, and you are the oposite.

While I am not a fan of the Mike's vox on ANtR, I loved the cookie monster version.
I didn't know Mike could cookie that well, if Mike is to do lead vox on a DT, let it be cookie!

Mike,

You're awesome dude. I think it's so cool how you keep in touch with the fans, whether it's to respond to something or just to talk about your heros and influences. Keep on keeping on and don't pay attention to the bashers. Even though I personally don't always like the musical direction you guys take, I'd still say just do whatever makes you guys happy, that's what matters.

Sean

All I can say is that ANTR is a real pain in the neck. Literally, I was head banging soooooo hard I can barley turn my head.  I'm going to have to see a chiropractor for sure after the August 1st show.

Portnoy

 PS - On a side note as this thread is really aimed to clear up my side of the street amongst the bashers: I must say the amount of hatred and negativity towards me on other DT "fan" sites is truly incredible (you know who you are)...my skin is not as thick as you may think!
 
It baffles me that as the member of DT (or any band for that matter) that must be one of the most fan-driven musicians in the industry, I am so slammed by our "fans"...while other artists (who will go unnamed) that could care less our fans are put on a pedestal....sorry, I am still human and can read these forums and it indeed hurts sometimes...
 
Please feel free to post this on those sites as well...
 
 

I feel ashamed for all those 'fans' that keep bashing on everything you do... Ashamed you have to come here and defend yourself, Mike.
I've been defending you and DT everywhere and although it's 'normal' after a new release, but my thoughts are it's much worse in the words people use..I'm also tired of all the negative comments..I think your vocals sound as they should, I love it and most of the people know how much I love James' vocals
Some think they can say everything, while all you guys do is make music YOU want and do your job the best you can, for a living to provide for your families.
To me Mike you're more than just Mike Portnoy of Dream Theater..you ARE my hero and DT's music means so much to me. I hope you know that..What you do for your fans is beyond everything a fan could wish for !
Sorry if I sound emotional, well actually, I'm listening to The Best of Times at this moment and after seeing you and DT last Wednesday in Gelsenkirchen, I felt I had to write from my heart and tell you, please Mike, know that most of us love you deeply and truly I mean truly deeply respect you..I know I do !
Thanks for taking the time to explain and be sure I'll post your post everywhere !
 
Love always,
Caroline
 

After listening to those other two versions, the final version actually sounds desirable.

Mike,
The reason why I listen to Dream Theater is that you and the rest of the band are always trying new
things.... The song is great and so is the rest of the CD.....
Can't wait to see you in Asbury Park......

Mike,
 
I'm not normally a fan of growling vocals by any artist. I read the criticisms of your vocals in ANTR before I heard the song. When I finally did hear it, I braced myself for this offensive section that never came. I thought it sounded great and not out of place at all. You felt that's what YOUR song needed. That's good enough for me.
 
Please don't ever stop taking chances and doing what makes you happy because a few people like to complain. Most of us love what you do for the band and especially for us, the fans.
 
Thanks,
 
Drew

The one with James is way too confusing if you ask me!
And the final one (the album version one) is the best way to do it!
I have liked it all the way through, so I do not understand the critic it got!

With every DT album is the same story. The difference is that there are some fans that knows how to state a criticism and others who don't have a clue. There is a difference in saying "MP vocals is not my cup of tea" than "MP Vocals suuuckksss" or "is aawfull". Lately, most of the critics say things in the most hatred way, without any respect whatsoever.
 
I'll repeat something that I said in another thread. I just can't believe how some fans take every DT album with some sort of existential meaning, like if the album itself represents life or death to them. Is just an album, is just music, and if you don't like something about it there is plenty of music out there.

What strikes me is the lack of appreciation and undertanding behind some DT fans. I think everybody should be greatful that after 20 years we still are getting better music than 99% of what you hear on the radio.

 I just wanna say that I haven't seen any other musician been so close to his fans, and to feel the need to explain himself about something in his music is just unheard for me! That's why we love Dream Theater so much : )

 I personally take the music as it is and try to understand everything, and to feel the vibe. If I don't like something - ok. I don't like it. That does not mean that I know how it could be better! I'm very openminded when I listen to a new Dream Theater music, because it is a complicated music that needs time to get into you. The first time I heard Octavarium I wasn't quite impressed. It had a good melodyes and stuff, but nothing special. The same night, I put on the headphones, lied in my bed and I listened it 3 times, and every next time it crushed me harder, so leave the music to them, and when you don't like something just don't listen to IT!

 : )

gborland

Portnoy


The thought crossed my mind to ask Mikael himself to do it, but then I figured I'd end up having to do it live every night on tour, so it might as well be me on the CD....

But you can get him to do it at the PN09 Euro shows!

HOLYSHIT that'd be awesome!!!

Just another reason  i have been a fan of this band for 20 years.I really don't think that you have to explain yourself,it is after all YOUR MUSIC!!!!.You could have had Daffy Duck sing that part if you wanted to,it is after all your music.Your just a class act for addressing this issue.(which i don't think you have to)I for one love the new C.D. and can't wait till August 14 when you guys kick Toronto's ass once again.Thanks for the music Mike.

What I find funny is, I never really flinched about the ending vocals at all at the end of this song, so I suppose it just felt right to me as well.  My kids were creeped by it, which was great.  My 7 year old daughter thinks it's the best song.

My only beef would be the fade out on The Best of Times (or ANY song that fades) and the fade in on "The Shattered Fortress".  I've already edited it with the "real" ending and beginnings (respectively) from the instrumentals....so thanks for making that available Mike.

Wassy


Mike,

I loved this post for getting a glimpse into the working process of a song.  I find that sort of thing so interesting.  Thanks for putting the time into it and gathering the MP3s and stuff!

As far as bashers go, while there are some that are mean-spirited, I think you get the critiques because the fans love you!  I don't post it here too much, but my best friend and I will pretty heavily critique and dissect your albums... but its because we care and LOOOOOOOVE the music.  There's so much going on in any DT song, that there's a lot there to discuss and banter about.  If these discussions were open on this message board, I'm sure the flame wars would start and things would get taken out of context and it would sound really mean.  But it in no way diminishes our love for Dream Theater or respect for each of its members.

Also, its your own darn fault for making the bestest music ever and giving us all impossibly high standards =D

Keep it up!

Yeah...what she said!

Thanks for posting this up Mike. Really cool to hear a bit of the creative process and, in the end it does help explain why that section of the song was done the way it was. I agree that the counter point version was way too cluttered and confusing.

It's still not my favorite bit of vocals on the album but that's mostly because of my personal preferences. I can definitely see how you arrived at that particular solution. Your vocals on this album were very good. And the background vocals on the Queen cover specifically. And the album as a whole is really, really good.

dimedizzle


After listening to those other two versions, the final version actually sounds desirable.

Hmm, I sound like I'm being an ass and I can't edit it anymore. What I'm saying is I actually like it genuinely now that I've heard the other options.

Truthfully, I liked the growls the way they originally were. I would have liked you going in wholesies and not halfsies, but what can you do? As it is, that part is not my cup of tea, admittedly, but that happens on every album. If I liked every part of every song, I'd be a fanboy and that would be dangerous.

The people who bitch about this stuff are most likely the very same people who complain about everything Dream Theater have done since Scenes from a memory. It seems so strange to me that these people still listen to the band if they are so unhappy with the music.
 
We all know who they are, they will post stuff like "I wish they would write stuff like they have on Awake" or "Why can't they sound like Images and Words". It now seems to me that the longer Dream Theater carry on and what ever direction they go in they will be pigeon holed.
 
It is very easy to blame Mike, as people need a bad guy and sadly he will get singled out as people know how much control he has over Dream Theater's music. Probably Mike and James are constantly singled out for criticism more than other members of the band and it has gotten to the stage where people pick up on the slightest little thing and blow it out of proportion.

Portnoy

2. I really kept hearing a Mikael Akerfeldt type Opeth death growl (yes, cookie monster vocals - sorry Setlist Scotty!) Like em or hate em, the section was really calling for it to my ears (listen to the instrumental version and you'll hear what I mean...) The thought crossed my mind to ask Mikael himself to do it, but then I figured I'd end up having to do it live every night on tour, so it might as well be me on the CD.... So I gave it my best shot and here's what it was:
http://www.mikeportnoy.com/mp/ANTR%20MP%20Cookie.mp3

In the end, JP and I discussed it and he just couldn't hang with the cookie...he thought it was just TOO radical for DT fans to swallow...

And as a Dream Theater fan and not opeth I think JP was right! Because I don´t like that cookie monster in the opeth music... first time I ear opeth on youtube... I said never again... only if they open for you... but I won´t pay to see them and not even for free... It´s just my taste for music... And thank you for sharing with everyone:) See you on the tour!

Among all those other fans I really appreciate your attitude towards the fans. I never have experienced such a fan-oriented band as DT. 

Concerning the topic, I love those growles, maybe Mikael will be guest on stage during ProgNation venues :) 

I think the Cookie monster vocals are awesome! But yes, It would shock a lot of DT fans out there who are not familiar with Opeth or similar bands.

Mike, keep being awesome! Hope to see you soon on a South American leg.

The cookie monster version is best!

Consider it added into my NTR mix Mike!

This is the sort "inside baseball" type of information I'd like to see more of...

I'm glad the cookie version didn't make the final song (I don't know if the growling was good or bad, I just hate cookie monster growling in general).
At first, I didn't like your part that did make the song either, but now I actually think they're kinda cool.

Nothin but respect here MP. You'll never please everyone, but I'm one happy fan. Good work, keep it coming. See ya in August!

FourLittleDiamonds

...

I don't totally get why you've bothered coming out though mate. You're very fan driven and as you say you knew it would be controversial. So why get worked up about something you did that you knew as well as anybody else many people wouldn't like?
...

You can't control feelings, and all the "knowing" in the world won't take the sting away from severe bashing if you are the type of person Mike is.

I'm the exact same way, and it is so ironic Mike posted this, because just last night I was thinking how accessible he is due to the technology we have today, and that I know he reads the criticism, and very few people have thick enough skin to not let this amount of bashing hurt. Putting myself in his shoes, I thought last night that I would be very disappointed and hurt. Last night I just realized that no matter how famous and badass MP is, he is still just like us: he makes music in a band, and like all of us who do that, can't wait for other people to hear it. It's the old cliche: he is still human, and has feelings, and although you have to be able to take the criticism, it does seem like no other band gets torn apart more than DT.


Think about it though: here is a guy (and band) that works their ass off to give us an album every two years, and who gave us the actual tracks to play "producer" with this album. Why do you suppose he did that? He said it in his post: if you don't like his Vox, tak'em out. Holy crap! What other band is this flexible for their fans?

Mike,

I'll echoe what some people have already said: the majority loves this album, loves your Vox, and loves DT (and not because they are fanboys). Unfortunately, the minority is louder.

I, like so many other people, recognize the effort you and DT put into pleasing your often times ungrateful fans, so don't think it goes unnoticed. You are truly a class act, and IMO, don't need to justify one thing to us. Thanks for what you do dude!

Sincerely,

Tim

Portnoy

It baffles me that as the member of DT (or any band for that matter) that must be one of the most fan-driven musicians in the industry, I am so slammed by our "fans"...while other artists (who will go unnamed) that could care less our fans are put on a pedestal....sorry, I am still human and can read these forums and it indeed hurts sometimes...

 
Those aren't fans in my estimation: they are internet parasites that get a rise out of rattling your cage.  They are smart enough to know the effect it has.  Passive-aggressive perhaps.

I am also not a huge fan of cookie monster vocals, but I think they have their place.  To me it works here.
 
You rock Mike, and we appreciate your hard work.

I love that part, you sure went for the right version of it! 

Mike your the man, that section was great and you relesed it so the fans have to listen to it.If they dont like it they shouldn't be complaining because of all the hard work you put out in DT and other side projects. If they don't like it then they don't have to listen to the song! I have much respect and I can't wait to meet you on august 2nd!!!:D

I was just listening to In 'In held ('twas) in I' from SMPTe and your vocals at about 6min are hands down my favourite part of the song! Keep it up man!

Don't feel bad about other people's arrogance. Just ask them if they have been writing killer music the past 20 years :) It's sick how people think performing artists owe them something or are obligated to explain their art to them.

Peace

First of all, as a fan of Opeth, i LOVED that cookie monster version! Feel free to do that anytime, Mike. :) Secondly, I think the album version kicks ass, when I heard people complaining, I really didn't get it. I mean, the song IS called A Nightmare to Remember.... so I thought it was appropriate. maybe these guys want Bert and Ernie singing about their nightmares....

Lastly, thank you, thank you, thank you for breaking that down for us. That is so awesome that you would take the time to share that with us, what other band would ever do that? I feel bad that you felt you had to do it to defend yourself, but I'm glad I got the behind the scenes look.

So in the end, please don't give up doing those kinds of vocals Mike, they make DT that much more diverse, and in a metal song, I think it fits nicely. I didn't know you had it in you, if Akerfeldt ever calls it quits with Opeth, I expect you to take up the reigns. :)

TheOutlawXanadu

That being said, I never had a problem with any of MP's vocals on the album.

Keep up the good work MP.

+1, theres not one pit of MP's or JLB's lyrics i dislike......

indeed you made the wisest choice in the end imo. good work

Hey Mike,

this is my first post here on your board! I just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate your vocals, it makes a song much more varied!
And that's also one reason why I love DT - you're one of the few bands, who try always new things out!

keep up the great work!
& thanks for the great music!

Greetings from Luxembourg

Katz


The cookie monster version is best!

Consider it added into my NTR mix Mike!

Yep gonna do the same when I get my hands on the deluxe set.

Thanks Mike for explaining this... I like the growls on the final track.
Like you said before you can't please everybody.
And as long you make music this will always be the case.

Steve