The story behind my vocals on "A Nightmare To Remember"

I don't know if you're still reading this thread MP, but I thought I should go ahead and put my thought in and hope it helps. I know it kind of feels like you're getting stabbed in the back by all these "fans" (critiquing jackoffs if you ask me). I also understand that when you write a song that is truly YOUR song, its like a part of you, and if it gets attacked it feels like a part of you is attacked. I think a lot of repect is owed to you for coming out in this matter and politely explaining yourself and presenting your point even though you shouldn't have to. Though I know it doesn't make any of the hate better, just remember you've got fans like (mostly) everyone here and me who got your back and respect you whatever you do. I loved every second of this album, and consider it an absolute masterpiece. Thank you Mike.
P.S. I can't wait until July 28. I won one of those snazzy silver tickets and get to meet you guys (trippin balls excited). Thanks for backing the deluxe edition and giving me that opportunity.
Anywho fanboy rant over. I also wanted to say to the critics, it is alright to disagree and politely say so. What grinds my gears, and why MP posted in the first place, is when you just hate and say the band made "a mistake" (i'm looking at you Truesagan). If you genuinely just hate the band that much (and you shouldn't) just stop posting. Like the age old adage goes "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

I really like Portnoy's vocals! As a DT fan, I would like him to sing more....   Unfortunately, ANTR's monster vocals are not that good! IMHO, I think they don't sound original!

To tell you the truth, as an old prog fan,  I think the whole album lacks something... I don't know if it's "heart", exclusively originality...  I admit BC&SL has some really good moments and two epics intros  (The Count of Tuscany and  The Best of Times)! But focusing only on the musical aspect - not judging the band skills as musicians, lyrically... You are the best!!! -, BC&SL is way behind the last  DT epic: SDOIT.

IMHO, like ToT, Octavarium and SC, BC&SL is just another album to DT discography.

Like progarchives.com, I give BC&SL  a 3,6!

I'm already excited for the next album! I'm optimistic!


 

I for one owe an apology to MP, i know it sounds convenient but after some repeated listenings over the weekend i have really warmed to BCSL as a whole.  To be fair though the review i gave had really nothing to do with the growl at all, the review itself was not substantial based on one listening whilst not paying attention to it.

I have been listening to a lot of tom waits and bob dylan recently so i have no problem with growls,

Maybe this album will be like awake it took awhile for most to warm to that and now it is thought of as one of DT's Best. I personally think that BSCL is a great album i give it 8.5/10.

Mike,

Thanks for taking the time to explain the difference in the vocals.  Not many other musicians take the time to give an insight into the thought process of creating a song. 

Knowing now that you at least gave the cookie monster vocals a try is pretty cool.  When I heard the vocals on the song, I thought it needed to be heavier....

Always good stuff from you here...fuck the haters....

It's unfortunate that the most vocal posters tend to be the ones who hate the album, while the people who like the album don't seem to say it enough! That must look to MP like everybody hates it, while that is just simply not true.

I didn't take it as "defending" himself, but rather explaining.  I personally don't care for his singing during that section.  I think it ruins the flow of the song.  But, that's just my opinion.  Thanks for exlpaining, though, regardless.  It's not every day that an artist goes out of his way to explain his art. 

DefyingMortality

scorpiondeux

Anyway, as a few others have said, the problem with the vocals is the ridiculous divide between the lyrics and music. Why roar and scream when everyone's ok?

I asked about the others
"Is everyone okay?"
He told me not to worry
As he turned and looked away

Not everyone's okay. They may have survived, but that doesn't make it a happy ending.. "No son should ever have to see his father such a mess", remember? The lyrics fit absolutely PERFECTLY in that context.

 or you could quote the relevant sections:

It's a miracle he lived
It's a blessing no-one died
By the grace of God above
Everyone survived! ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

The lyrics before this indeed to work well, I'm not arguing that. But then these last four lines change towards a path of positive mood, "miracle, blessing, grace of god" are hardly ideas that work well with angry vox, and this compounded by the "ROAR" just after exclaiming everyone survived!!!

Yes, I know that survival does not mean happy days, but how can you be angry after saying "by the grace of god above, everyone survived"??! The roar is totally out of place.

I think it would have been cool if the dynamics of the vocals changed as the situation became apparent. And my biggest issue is with the ROAR which I'm sure you'll agree does not fit the lyrics at all.

Maybe MP was just so happy that everyone survived that he had to let out a big roar...

scorpiondeux

DefyingMortality

scorpiondeux

Anyway, as a few others have said, the problem with the vocals is the ridiculous divide between the lyrics and music. Why roar and scream when everyone's ok?

I asked about the others
"Is everyone okay?"
He told me not to worry
As he turned and looked away

Not everyone's okay. They may have survived, but that doesn't make it a happy ending.. "No son should ever have to see his father such a mess", remember? The lyrics fit absolutely PERFECTLY in that context.

 or you could quote the relevant sections:

It's a miracle he lived
It's a blessing no-one died
By the grace of God above
Everyone survived! ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

The lyrics before this indeed to work well, I'm not arguing that. But then these last four lines change towards a path of positive mood, "miracle, blessing, grace of god" are hardly ideas that work well with angry vox, and this compounded by the "ROAR" just after exclaiming everyone survived!!!

Yes, I know that survival does not mean happy days, but how can you be angry after saying "by the grace of god above, everyone survived"??! The roar is totally out of place.

I think it would have been cool if the dynamics of the vocals changed as the situation became apparent. And my biggest issue is with the ROAR which I'm sure you'll agree does not fit the lyrics at all.

Yes, this was definitely why it rubbed me the wrong way. I don't think it was the actual growling bothering me, but what the growls were being used to say.

Also, looking back, my last comment about the growling vocals (in another topic, I think it was deleted) was rather rude, and I'd like to apologize for it. It's your forum, Mike, and I had no right trying to go for a cheap laugh by making a joke about the vocals the way I did. Album's gotten even better with each listen, actually, and it was great to begin with.

scorpiondeux

DefyingMortality

scorpiondeux

Anyway, as a few others have said, the problem with the vocals is the ridiculous divide between the lyrics and music. Why roar and scream when everyone's ok?

I asked about the others
"Is everyone okay?"
He told me not to worry
As he turned and looked away

Not everyone's okay. They may have survived, but that doesn't make it a happy ending.. "No son should ever have to see his father such a mess", remember? The lyrics fit absolutely PERFECTLY in that context.

 or you could quote the relevant sections:

It's a miracle he lived
It's a blessing no-one died
By the grace of God above
Everyone survived! ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

The lyrics before this indeed to work well, I'm not arguing that. But then these last four lines change towards a path of positive mood, "miracle, blessing, grace of god" are hardly ideas that work well with angry vox, and this compounded by the "ROAR" just after exclaiming everyone survived!!!

Yes, I know that survival does not mean happy days, but how can you be angry after saying "by the grace of god above, everyone survived"??! The roar is totally out of place.

I think it would have been cool if the dynamics of the vocals changed as the situation became apparent. And my biggest issue is with the ROAR which I'm sure you'll agree does not fit the lyrics at all.

I imagine it's a tone more of relief than of happiness. Or possibly, (and this is what I'm guessing), the child-JP is thinking that part in his mind and trying to reassure himself after the crash that it's all going to be fine.

DefyingMortality

scorpiondeux

DefyingMortality

scorpiondeux

Anyway, as a few others have said, the problem with the vocals is the ridiculous divide between the lyrics and music. Why roar and scream when everyone's ok?

I asked about the others
"Is everyone okay?"
He told me not to worry
As he turned and looked away

Not everyone's okay. They may have survived, but that doesn't make it a happy ending.. "No son should ever have to see his father such a mess", remember? The lyrics fit absolutely PERFECTLY in that context.

or you could quote the relevant sections:

It's a miracle he lived
It's a blessing no-one died
By the grace of God above
Everyone survived! ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

The lyrics before this indeed to work well, I'm not arguing that. But then these last four lines change towards a path of positive mood, "miracle, blessing, grace of god" are hardly ideas that work well with angry vox, and this compounded by the "ROAR" just after exclaiming everyone survived!!!

Yes, I know that survival does not mean happy days, but how can you be angry after saying "by the grace of god above, everyone survived"??! The roar is totally out of place.

I think it would have been cool if the dynamics of the vocals changed as the situation became apparent. And my biggest issue is with the ROAR which I'm sure you'll agree does not fit the lyrics at all.

I imagine it's a tone more of relief than of happiness. Or possibly, (and this is what I'm guessing), the child-JP is thinking that part in his mind and trying to reassure himself after the crash that it's all going to be fine.

this. not everytime "cookie monster vocals" are used to make something angry or bad
its a different medium

I've been away for the weekend and when I got home and read this post I couldn't believe what I read. I had no idea he got so much bashing for his work. Honestly I like the new kinda crazy ideas DT does. Mike "growling" part for example is awsome.

Even if Mike gets bashing from some fans, and i'm sure that hurts him, he should also know how much he and DT means for all of us. Thanks to Mike I took up drumming again, started a band and through that I met DT loving guys that now are my best friends. Without DT I would never have met them.  I played DT for my dad and now he loves them and we've been on 5 different shows together and we jam together every weekend.

Your music means SO much to us fans and we love the band. Don't let the bashers affect you. They are probably just jealous because they aren't as creative and talanted as you guys are.

Thanks for every note, drumbeat, song line, fill, riff and solo you've ever created. We all love it!!

Jimmy

Portnoy
PS - On a side note as this thread is really aimed to clear up my side of the street amongst the bashers: I must say the amount of hatred and negativity towards me on other DT "fan" sites is truly incredible (you know who you are)...my skin is not as thick as you may think!
 
It baffles me that as the member of DT (or any band for that matter) that must be one of the most fan-driven musicians in the industry, I am so slammed by our "fans"...while other artists (who will go unnamed) that could care less our fans are put on a pedestal....sorry, I am still human and can read these forums and it indeed hurts sometimes...
 
Please feel free to post this on those sites as well...
 
 

Well said.

aguifs


I really like Portnoy's vocals! As a DT fan, I would like him to sing more....   Unfortunately, ANTR's monster vocals are not that good! IMHO, I think they don't sound original!

 Try not to view the part as "it is not DT, it is not original and so on" and try to feel that the theme of the song, the whole story needed that part. It is just another chapter of the story that is darker and it sounds that way.

 For me that is what it is, and it flows perfectly IMO

martindecorum

It's a miracle he lived
It's a blessing no-one died
By the grace of God above
Everyone survived! ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

 
not everytime "cookie monster vocals" are used to make something angry or bad
its a different medium

So it's a happy kind of "ROAAAAAAAAAAR!", not an angry one?

^Yep.

I LOVE the MP vox presented in this tune!

MP you are great. I love DT for what will come next. The creativity you put into the music is hands down some of the best music I have ever listened too. Don't let people get under your skin, it's your music and for them to even critize you is a joke. Lets see them come up with something better. Keep rockin.....

I liked it...it fits.


.....that simple.

I think it would have been cool if the dynamics of the vocals changed as the situation became apparent. And my biggest issue is with the ROAR which I'm sure you'll agree does not fit the lyrics at all.


The ROOOOOAAAAARRRR going into that badass riff is one of my favourite bits of the song, it may not fit lyrically but it fits perfectly musically, I guess that's the risk you take if you write the music first.

martindecorum

DefyingMortality

scorpiondeux

DefyingMortality

scorpiondeux

Anyway, as a few others have said, the problem with the vocals is the ridiculous divide between the lyrics and music. Why roar and scream when everyone's ok?

I asked about the others
"Is everyone okay?"
He told me not to worry
As he turned and looked away

Not everyone's okay. They may have survived, but that doesn't make it a happy ending.. "No son should ever have to see his father such a mess", remember? The lyrics fit absolutely PERFECTLY in that context.

or you could quote the relevant sections:

It's a miracle he lived
It's a blessing no-one died
By the grace of God above
Everyone survived! ROAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!

The lyrics before this indeed to work well, I'm not arguing that. But then these last four lines change towards a path of positive mood, "miracle, blessing, grace of god" are hardly ideas that work well with angry vox, and this compounded by the "ROAR" just after exclaiming everyone survived!!!

Yes, I know that survival does not mean happy days, but how can you be angry after saying "by the grace of god above, everyone survived"??! The roar is totally out of place.

I think it would have been cool if the dynamics of the vocals changed as the situation became apparent. And my biggest issue is with the ROAR which I'm sure you'll agree does not fit the lyrics at all.

I imagine it's a tone more of relief than of happiness. Or possibly, (and this is what I'm guessing), the child-JP is thinking that part in his mind and trying to reassure himself after the crash that it's all going to be fine.

this. not everytime "cookie monster vocals" are used to make something angry or bad
its a different medium

Perhaps in bands that regularly or always use that kind of vocal, but when it is something far out in left field like here, IMO it doesn't fit. But still I'm sorry - "happy growling" just sounds like an oxymoron to me...

I still haven't gotten the cd, and I refuse to listen to, or read any spoilers. So posting for easy recovery when it gets here. Hopefully tomorrow :D (Darn technical errors...)

Hey Mike,

I love it the way it is, at this point in the story, after all the character went through, the accident, life changing, sedation, the  questions, he's half awake and angry, you projet the emotions clearly!! I dont feal it any other way, and actually the first time I heard it, it did not seem controversial to me. Cant wait to hear it live!!!!!

Mike... you play prog, we love prog, and love Dream Theater, and (if I may say so), we are probably the most demanding fans of all the music industry, and yes we can be hard on you guys sometimes, (just as you guys on each other in the band).

But in the end, when they finally turn out the lights in the concert hall, and the anticipation of seing our favorite band (DT) finally hit the stage and delivering each note, each beat and emotion with precision and most of us wishing it was us (you know you been there!!) playing like you guys, then it all makes sense, and it's irony to know that the people bashing you are probably at home watching American Idol.

We are, as your fans, enjoying The Best of Times, and I really wish it will be for a continuing long time.

Pierre

Those bashers need to remember - > Never Enough.

Dream Theater rocks, I love the new album Mike and also this entire song! ANTR one of my favorites on this album!

siegert


Those bashers need to remember - > Never Enough.

No no no no nooooo... there is no referencing that song anymore..!!!!!!! AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!

LOL

Teknoman

it's irony to know that the people bashing you are probably at home watching American Idol.

I seem to remember MP admitting to watching American Idol on Eddie Trunk... 

siegert


Those bashers need to remember - > Never Enough.

Mike Portnoy, why oh why oh why oh why did you ever write that song?  People such as the above poster need to remember that other people have opinions and should be able to voice them without others having to quote "Never Enough" for the 500 billionth time in response.

DarkMan

siegert


Those bashers need to remember - > Never Enough.

Mike Portnoy, why oh why oh why oh why did you ever write that song?  People such as the above poster need to remember that other people have opinions and should be able to voice them without others having to quote "Never Enough" for the 500 billionth time in response.

it truely is "never enough" gosh [:P]

Well, I concede that there's a difference between voicing an opinion and bashing.  So, maybe that's what siegert was referring to, the people who go out of their way to literally BASH DT instead of thoughtfully voicing their opinions.  I just get a little annoyed with the reference to Never Enough because I do think that whole thing is overused way too much.  Find something else now!  LOL

Holy Shit!!!!!!!!!! I just listened to the MP3 of MPs cookie monster vocal section, damn was it good. I wish that would have made the album! Anyways, I am very impressed with MPs vocal abilities these days!

DarkMan

siegert


Those bashers need to remember - > Never Enough.

Mike Portnoy, why oh why oh why oh why did you ever write that song?  People such as the above poster need to remember that other people have opinions and should be able to voice them without others having to quote "Never Enough" for the 500 billionth time in response.

I can't believe you're asking this question!

This thread is a good enough reason!!!!!!!

Dean Talbot

I can't believe you're asking this question!

This thread is a good enough reason!!!!!!!

It is?  Where?  What I've seen is a good deal of appreciation (and ass kissing LOL) for Portnoy taking the time to explain how they decided to do the vocals in that part of the song.  I think it has been a very respectable thread so far. 
 
I think some people want to get on MP's "good side" so much that they go out of their way to find "bashers."  Lighten up, dude. 

Yeah, but the reason he even had to do it is because people were attacking him personally about it.

Wow I listened to the growls Mike and you should have kept those, they are way better than what you ended up with. That is one awesome growl.

I personally don't like the vocal part very much, but it isn't something that makes me dislike the album in any way. The album is excellent. I would rather have had James sing during the part, but he didn't, and what I want doesn't mean anything in the end anyway. There is no possible way to please everyone on every single section of a song.

DarkMan

Dean Talbot

I can't believe you're asking this question!

This thread is a good enough reason!!!!!!!

It is?  Where?  What I've seen is a good deal of appreciation (and ass kissing LOL) for Portnoy taking the time to explain how they decided to do the vocals in that part of the song.  I think it has been a very respectable thread so far. 
 
I think some people want to get on MP's "good side" so much that they go out of their way to find "bashers."  Lighten up, dude. 

I was about to respond, but couldn't put it any better than DefyingMortality:
Yeah, but the reason he even had to do it is because people were attacking him personally about it.

What I meant was that the only reason this thread exists is precisely the same reason they wrote about in  "never enough". And if you think putting an opposing argument to the detractors is ass kissing then fine - someone needs to - in fact it got SO bad that MP felt he had to step in and do it himself!

And yes, this thread is largely restrained. Have look at the BC & SL thread.

Holy shite. The cd came today and I just have to say. This song contains your all time best vocal performance, Mike. I haven't heard the cookie vocals yet, but will soon. (Want to hear the rest of the album first. So far, it's DELIGHTFUL!

Never Enough? Actually I think the problem here is that (for once) it was too much.

BrickGlass


I personally don't like the vocal part very much, but it isn't something that makes me dislike the album in any way. The album is excellent. I would rather have had James sing during the part, but he didn't, and what I want doesn't mean anything in the end anyway. There is no possible way to please everyone on every single section of a song.

Unless the album happens to be "Images & Words."
 
LOL