Story behind "The Count of Tuscany"

Sirens_Of_Titan


Quick Count of Tuscany question:

Does anyone else get the crap scared out of them when this song ends because Stargazer from the covers cd comes on really loud as the next song in your music library? Seriously this happens every time for me

^^^

That happened to me a lot with the end of To Live is To Die off of AJFA...

Babyfaced Ninja


the count?

I just laughed my ass off! 

My theory on The Count of Tuscany's lyrics are that you're not neccessarily supposed to make the assumption that the character narrating is Petrucci and that the lyrics are not an exact representation of what actually happened. They probably are pretty close but I think if Petrucci didn't say it was based on an actual event he went through people wouldn't be painting pictures of Petrucci and a guitar tech goin' for a spin around Tuscany, getting a bit freaked out, then, on an anti-climax, realising that 'Wait a minute man, that's not how it is!' haha. The problem is everyone knows Petrucci is alive and well, so no one was expecting the story to end with Petrucci getting eaten by cannibalistic brothers of Counts or anything, haha!

Look at it from a fictional characters point of view even. The first 3rd of the song has the Count explaning all these horrifying events that have happened in the castle to the narrator and also making suggestions that his brother has cannabilistic characteristics, inspired by a cannibalistic curator who once lived there. Freaky stuff. The second 3rd then has the narrator getting this eery feeling that he is reliving these events of the past, enhanced by the 'ancient' structural design of the castle, this brother representing a cannibalistic curator of the past and the implications that he should check out some vintage wine, with the knowledge that the last people who did (The soldiers) never escaped! Haha. I think at the 12 minute point you're simply supposed to assume this guys gonna end up dead, only for a twist at the end.

Then again, maybe I'm wrong and the lyrics just don't work and the first half was far to harmless in wording to suggest that anything violent was going to happen in the end, I dunno. I just think what I said above was the intention (Which you probably already knew anyway, haha!).

Whatever the meaning, I just can't get this song out of my head.  It works.

well, just ask yourselves this: how would YOU act in this situation? Foreign land, strange guy taking you to his 'estate' telling you all this weird stuff 'oh yeah, that Hanibal character? he's based upon my brother!' hehe....come taste some wine in this cellar here, there just might be some dead soldier in there, we just don't know!

I'd freak out...

Am I the only one who can't stop laughing at the ''HISTORIAN!!!!'' part even after many listens? Its' so so random! It's a lame word and it's sang as if it is the cheesiest word in the history of metal lyrics!

if you read the history of pietro pacciani you will understand. but keep the jokes coming, i'm rotflmao.

The song is great but for some reason whenever I hear "sucking on his pipe" I visualize a bubble-pipe and I burst out laughing...
 

I also did a lenghty interview (it will be the cover story) for dutch magazine De Bassist with John Myung on the tourbus at the Gelsenkirchen show last wednesday. A few spoilers: Myung will write lyrics again. It may not be on the first record after BC&SL, but he definitely will do it. (He also learns to play guitar to become a better songwriter. Not to be a guitar player!)  
 
Cheers,
Patrick

Greatest DT news ever!!! I hope he does it sooner than later....Did you ask him about the possibility of a solo album?

circus_brimstone

Do a wikipedia search for Pietro Pacciani

This name has been mention several times now, I just don't quiet get why.
Pacciani died in 1998 while the story JP is telling took place in 2004.

 
MAH BROTHAHHH this thread rulez! :'D

adessio


if you read the history of pietro pacciani you will understand. but keep the jokes coming, i'm rotflmao.

I remember that there was the suspicious that some rich families of Tuscany were the instigator of the crimes linked with esoteric rituals (that's why he mutilated victims' body)...if Petrucci knew about pacciani's history, I'm not surprised that he was afraid for his life

the guide must be a member of this royal blood family. this article talks about the rich family conspiracy: www.theage.com.au/.../ 06/08/1086460294732.html

Kyo

circus_brimstone

Do a wikipedia search for Pietro Pacciani

This name has been mention several times now, I just don't quiet get why.
Pacciani died in 1998 while the story JP is telling took place in 2004.

Easy... Hannibal Lecter fictional character is based  on Pacciani Real person... Which was a Cannibal serial Murder that lived in Italy and killed local people and some turist.

Got this from here  interesting...


Quote:

As the lyrics do state "Several years ago..."

JP was an adult when this happened. But he was scared for good reason.
Pay particular attention to the lines:

Maybe you'll recall
A cannibal curator
A character inspired
By my brother's life.

The Count of Tuscany is taking him to the man that the character
HANNIBAL LECTER was based off of. Yea, you know, the elegant psycopath
from "The Silence of the Lambs"? (In the second film "Hannibal"
he becomes the new curator of the Capponi Library under the name "Dr. Fell")

The reason JP was frightened was because he thought he was going to
be KILLED, SLAUGHTERED, AND EATEN. I'd say that's a good enough reason
as any to be afraid as a grown man!

_____________________________________________

Quote:

The Hannibal Lecter connection makes sense, but I'm still not sure
who the "count" is. The only possibility I could think of is
Pietro Pacciani's brother.

Pacciani lived in Italy and is believed to have inspired the
Hannibal character, but he died in 1998. It could be his brother
was showing Petrucci a photograph, except as far as I know, Pacciani
was neither bearded nor a historian.

There are, however, conspiracy theories floating around on the internet
that try to connect him with a satanic cult and a certain pedophile priest,
which might help explain this paragraph:

"Would you like to see
Our secret holy place
I come here late at night
To pray to him by candlelight
Then peering through the glass
I saw with disbelief
Still dressed in royal clothes
The saint behind the altar"

Perhaps this was taking place in Petrucci's imagination, and
the "count" explained to him that they were "fables and tales all
handed down through time". It's a stretch, I admit, but it's the
best I could come up with.

If anyone else has an idea who this mysterious count might be,
I'm very curious about it.

i have just shit my self!!! if petrucci got to meet Pietro Pacciani's brother, fuck he had good reasons to be scare like hell!!!!

All will be revealed in the next edition of the book !

I'm having a great time reading this thread, but, seriously... IMHO both the opener and the closer on BC&SL are the weakest lyrical elements on DT's repertoire.  Not only that, but their backbone is pretty similar. Think about it, they are both the longest songs in the album, they are both about "terryfing" things that JP tells autobiographically, most people don't get what was so terrible about the event since in both cases "everyone survived" and it wasn't that big a deal after all.

IMO the lyrics don't fit the music in either case (the cookie monster part in ANTR is a perfect example: EVERYONE SURVIVED!!!!!! WHOOOOAAAAA!.... hell yeah, perfect fit...) It's a shame DT is starting more and more to put less effort in the lyrics, they used to be awsome.

But then again, that's my 2 cents on it.

thesleeper20


I'm having a great time reading this thread, but, seriously... IMHO both the opener and the closer on BC&SL are the weakest lyrical elements on DT's repertoire.  Not only that, but their backbone is pretty similar. Think about it, they are both the longest songs in the album, they are both about "terryfing" things that JP tells autobiographically, most people don't get what was so terrible about the event since in both cases "everyone survived" and it wasn't that big a deal after all.

Hence the title: Black Clouds & Silver Linings. To me that just proves the title: crappy things happen but there is a silver lining at the end.

Every time I listen to this album i get more and more excited.

Everyone may have survived the accident, but he was a freakin' kid, I'm pretty sure you'd be terrified as well.  I do agree that the story in The Count of Tuscany is pretty anticlimactic, but it's a sweet song.  I personally am just not a lyrics person anyways, so it doesn't really matter. 

So lets say, for the sake of argument: The guy pulls his schlong out.

Do you think they would transpose those events in lyrics or be a little more subtle?

Its a mystery/comedy for me with amazing music. There is a disconnect somewhere, but its also my favorite song off the album so I can live with it. First 4 minutes = Classic from the first time I heard it.

STEVETHEATER


Got this from here  interesting...


Quote:

As the lyrics do state "Several years ago..."

JP was an adult when this happened. But he was scared for good reason.
Pay particular attention to the lines:

Maybe you'll recall
A cannibal curator
A character inspired
By my brother's life.

The Count of Tuscany is taking him to the man that the character
HANNIBAL LECTER was based off of. Yea, you know, the elegant psycopath
from "The Silence of the Lambs"? (In the second film "Hannibal"
he becomes the new curator of the Capponi Library under the name "Dr. Fell")

The reason JP was frightened was because he thought he was going to
be KILLED, SLAUGHTERED, AND EATEN. I'd say that's a good enough reason
as any to be afraid as a grown man!

_____________________________________________

Quote:

The Hannibal Lecter connection makes sense, but I'm still not sure
who the "count" is. The only possibility I could think of is
Pietro Pacciani's brother.

Pacciani lived in Italy and is believed to have inspired the
Hannibal character, but he died in 1998. It could be his brother
was showing Petrucci a photograph, except as far as I know, Pacciani
was neither bearded nor a historian.

There are, however, conspiracy theories floating around on the internet
that try to connect him with a satanic cult and a certain pedophile priest,
which might help explain this paragraph:

"Would you like to see
Our secret holy place
I come here late at night
To pray to him by candlelight
Then peering through the glass
I saw with disbelief
Still dressed in royal clothes
The saint behind the altar"

Perhaps this was taking place in Petrucci's imagination, and
the "count" explained to him that they were "fables and tales all
handed down through time". It's a stretch, I admit, but it's the
best I could come up with.

If anyone else has an idea who this mysterious count might be,
I'm very curious about it.

Interesting indeed!

jdprsaga

Kyo

circus_brimstone

Do a wikipedia search for Pietro Pacciani

This name has been mention several times now, I just don't quiet get why.
Pacciani died in 1998 while the story JP is telling took place in 2004.

Easy... Hannibal Lecter fictional character is based  on Pacciani Real person... Which was a Cannibal serial Murder that lived in Italy and killed local people and some turist.

This doesn't address my doubts at all. In the story JP clearly meets this
"brother" in person, so it CAN'T be Pacciani who was long dead in 2004.

thesleeper20

I'm having a great time reading this thread, but, seriously... IMHO both the opener and the closer on BC&SL are the weakest lyrical elements on DT's repertoire.  Not only that, but their backbone is pretty similar. Think about it, they are both the longest songs in the album, they are both about "terryfing" things that JP tells autobiographically, most people don't get what was so terrible about the event since in both cases "everyone survived" and it wasn't that big a deal after all.

IMO the lyrics don't fit the music in either case (the cookie monster part in ANTR is a perfect example: EVERYONE SURVIVED!!!!!! WHOOOOAAAAA!.... hell yeah, perfect fit...)

I mostly agree. The problem here is the old DT approach to write the music first and then add
lyrics on top of it. As long as you're dealing with somewhat general themes or very poetic, vague
lyrics, that isn't necessarily a problem. But these two songs are meant to tell stories. Pretty
simple stories, too. And with stories this can be problematic when it becomes obvious
the music wasn't meant to transport these particular stories when it was written.

Take the much-discussed "everyone survived" section of ANTR.
What is it supposed to do for the story? To point out that the whole situation is "a nightmare
to remember"? That's obvious from the very first line of the lyrics. To point out that everyone
(the father in particular) was in bad shape? That's more than hinted at in the "beautiful agony"
section, actually setting up the question that this section then finally answers: Did anyone die?
But if answering this question is its main function within the story, why is it presented so aggressively?
Or did JP actually miss that this would be the question people are waiting to have answered and
think that "it's a miracle he lived" would be understood as a line first and foremost saying
that his father was in really bad shape? It would make a lot more sense to put THAT to
aggressive music with aggressive vocals if these lyrics didn't give away the "he lived, everyone
survived" conclusion already. I think both in terms of having the music fit the lyrics and for the
structure of the story it would've been better to save that information for later in the song.

The Count of Tuscany has similar problems. Sure, when you read it all looking for clues,
you realize what this line about "cannibal curator" was meant to allude to. But it's
mentioned just in passing and by the time JP's writing how he's frightened for his
life, most people are wondering why a distinguished accent and some guy sucking
on his pipe would make anyone fear for his life. It's really quite odd.

Rich Wilson


All will be revealed in the next edition of the book !

i want to know nothing more until the book is released!

WilliamMunny

Babyfaced Ninja


the count?

I just laughed my ass off!

 
LOL! I was listening to TCOT today on my headphones, and my daughter had Sesame Street on and The Count came on with the number of the day.  I couldn't help but laugh at the thought of the song being about that count.

Maybe it was just John not liking the vibe. He was in a comlplete strangers house ya know. and all the sketchy stuff. he felt uptight and unsafe maybe?and maybe he had a mild panic attack or somthing?

Citizen Erased...

Great song...

megadtsbfan

WilliamMunny

Babyfaced Ninja


the count?

I just laughed my ass off!

 
LOL! I was listening to TCOT today on my headphones, and my daughter had Sesame Street on and The Count came on with the number of the day.  I couldn't help but laugh at the thought of the song being about that count.

LOL! I was listening to TCOT today on my headphones, and my daughter had Sesame Street on and The Count came on with the number of the day.  I couldn't help but laugh at the thought of the song being about that count.

This and a bubble pipe...

this has to stop....i can't stop laughing when I see this picture....

that being said...I think I was pretty bummed when I got the cd but it hasn't left my car since I bought it...

it is really growing on me and I'd much rather a cd grow on me (FII) than to love a cd upon first listen only to grow tired of it quickly (systematic chaos I'm looking at you!) 

anyone else feel this way?

Kyo

This doesn't address my doubts at all. In the story JP clearly meets this "brother" in person, so it CAN'T be Pacciani who was long dead in 2004.

"Would you like to see
Our secret holy place
I come here late at night
To pray to him by candlelight
Then peering through the glass
I saw with disbelief
Still dressed in royal clothes
The saint behind the altar"

Pacciani is in a glass coffin at the residence, where his brother goes late at night to pray to him.

Is that confirmed or just your interpretation Wey?

Now thats creepy, Wey.

^^ Yeah, that would be super-creepy.  Also, looking forward to the next edition of the book to see the full story...

Weymolith

Kyo

This doesn't address my doubts at all. In the story JP clearly meets this "brother" in person, so it CAN'T be Pacciani who was long dead in 2004.

"Would you like to see
Our secret holy place
I come here late at night
To pray to him by candlelight
Then peering through the glass
I saw with disbelief
Still dressed in royal clothes
The saint behind the altar"

Pacciani is in a glass coffin at the residence, where his brother goes late at night to pray to him.

As someone asked before, is that confirmed or your own interpretation?
 
If it is meant this way, these lines earlier would be rather confusing:
Let me introduce
My brother
A bearded gentleman
Historian
Sucking on his pipe
Distinguished accent
Making me uptight
No accident
 
It would mean that "sucking on his pipe, distinguished accent" would
for some reason not refer to the brother but to the count himself. Hmmm...

I really think it have something to do with the monster of florence.. which was originally related with Pacciani.. but the crimes are not totally solved.. its belived that this murders are related to a religious cult from a group of rich and influential people in florence (pacciani was a member of this cult.. so he is not the only one).. and the morders involved cannivalism..

... read this article:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/predators/monster_florence/13.html

There has been a lot of speculation here regarding who the Count could be based on.  Much of the speculation has centered on Pietro Pacciani.  If you do a little research, you will find that Pacciani was NOTHING like the person described in TCOT.  He was a drunken, oafish, uneducated bully.  Thomas Harris was following the case of the Monster of Florence and based parts of Hannibal Lecter's character from that case.  He did NOT base Hannibal Lecter on Pertro Pacciani.  There has also been a fair amount of (unfair, I think) critisism of JP's reaction to what he experienced in Tuscany.  Listed below is a link to what is BY FAR the most exhaustive (English) account of the ongoing mystery behind the Monster of Florence.  It addresses both matters here.  If you acquaint yourself with the contents of this article, it is easy to see: 1) Pacciani was - very likely - falsely accused, and 2) how easily it would have been for JP to have been scared by considering the true facts of the case.  Take close note of the man described only as "The Sardonian", and also of a very suspicious "Grande Ville" he and other suspicious persons of interest frequented (wine cellars and all).  Enjoy!!  http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200607/florence-murder

Wow, thanks for the link!

joshua12


Why is everyone crying like babies about the lyrics? It's a totally unique story imho. Would you rather have "crossing over into eternity with the vampire of the dark eternal night" pre-pubescent crap?! I stopped reading/writing things like that when I was 13! God forbid JP should write lyrics of substance and take a chance.

Sorry, but imo TCOT can hardly be described as having lyrics of substance, its simple, straightforward, linear and pretty naive storytelling. Compare it with other lyrics JP has written and you'll see what I mean.

thesleeper20

Sorry, but imo TCOT can hardly be described as having lyrics of substance, its simple, straightforward, linear and pretty naive storytelling. Compare it with other lyrics JP has written and you'll see what I mean.

Alright, lets see you do better... no? Didnt think so.