Lars Ulrich vs. Nick Menza

Ok, here' s the reason for this. I was listning to some Metallica, and Megadeth this morning,,,,,witch is a great way to wake up I might add. But anyway, I was listning to both of them, and I just started thinking,,, " I wonder who could out drum the other" . Now I' m not talking about just sitting down, and going ape shit on the drum set,, I' m talking about in terms of playing aballity' s. I know that everyone knows that Lars could really tear it up back in the late 80' s,, but what about Nick Menza??? I have never really heard Nick tear up the kit like Lars has, but I' m pretty sure that he could do it if he wanted to. One thing that I have noticed about Nicks playing,is that he really seems to have a good steady beat. Never get side tracked, or gets off time. The closest that I' ve heard him " trashing" is on Rust in Peace. So I guess the question that I' m asking is who in your oppinion is a better overall drummer?? OK,, I' ve said enough. I' m sure you gys get the point that I' m trying to make. And lets try not to make this another " lets talk about how much Lars suck now compared to how he used to be" thread!! This is simply a matter of stating your reasons as to whome you think is a better overall drummer.

Nick Menza, have u seen his drum solo on Deth' s Live DVD?

Nick Menza no contest! I thought that was Jimmy Degrasso on the DVD though. Also, Mezna was only with Deth since ' 89. He' s still the shiznit though.

I thought that was Jimmy Degrasso on the DVD though.

i KNEW i should have gone back and edited my post thanks for clearing that up.

Yeah it was DeGrasso on the dvd, not Menza.

This is a hard one to call really because they both are really good. Lars over the last few years has really laid back imo and i don' t know if its the music, the lack of caring as much or what. But Lars has been around longer than Menza as far as I know. I' m going to give Lars my vote because he was once my fav drummer when I first got into metal long ago.

The only drum pattern Lars did the last decade was snare and cymbal and the same time... sucks. Blackened, and justice for all, and dyers eve rule though....

Yeah. That was DeGrasso on the DVD, and he has the worst drum solo that I' ve EVER seen. It honestly bored the hell out of me (almost as much as when I saw him in person).

I' ll say Menza, even when considering the old days of Lars (when he was still untalented, but creative as fuck). If you want a great Menza solo, go back to some bootlegs, from the Cryptic Writings tour era. The duets he had with Elefsson are capable of arresting all vital bodily functions!

Nick Menza is better, I always thought Lars was sloppy and all his stuff sounded the same. Nick has cool fills and stuff, Lars is el-boring. One is the coolest drum thing he ever came up with, back when he played double bass and stuff.

Lars could never tear it up. He' s always been limited to simplistic beats because of his ability (or lack of). And what little he did was sloppy. Bleh. I' ve never really paid much attention to Deth' s drummer, but I' m sure he' s better than Lars... I' m not sure who isn' t.

hey, don' t let the name " METALLICA" fool you .yes " METALLICA " is huge, i' m a fan myself, but lars is nowhere near Nick or any other good drummer(scott travis,bobby jarzombek, richard christy) you' ll be surprise how good a producer and his crew can make you sound on a record. have you heard any Metallica bootleg live tapes from the 80s, Lars can' t even keep time and most of his fills were out of synch. i' m sorry if somebody gets offended.

Rod

speaking of Dyers Eve....wasn' t the quick double bass part overdubbed with studio magic? I remember reading it on this site somewhere...

anywho, I love Menza just for the Rust In Peace cd...man, oh, man.

however, lars got me into metal drumming with ...And Justice For All....wow. Tough call.

I' d have to say....menza, on pure skill, but Lars for creativity. How diplomatic was that?

Nick is better...he can really tear it up.

Yeah. It makes me sad that his solo album was so awful, and that he was kicked out of Megadeth for being a miserable lying fukstiq. He needs to be less of an assmunch (stop lying to other bandmembers about important shit), and get back in a real band. He just doesn' t have the ability do do it all (or even the majority of composing) on his own. Maybe Dave was right to kick him out.

note: I hear Menza was removed for a variety of reasons, among them, was a history of substance and alcohol abuse (including showing up drunk/stoned for concerts), a long string of hurtful lies told to dave (part of which was faking a " knee injury" , so he could get out of doing the rest of Ozzfest), and demanding more control in Megadeth' s musical direction. Menza may be an awesome drummer, but he' s also a supreme dick. This guy is in the same class as Phil Collins and Bill Bruford (though I love Bruford' s solo stuff).

ORIGINAL: DoctorX
This guy is in the same class as Phil Collins and Bill Bruford (though I love Bruford' s solo stuff).

WHOA! I' m not a huge fan of his, so fill me in when you lump Bill Bruford in!

ORIGINAL: rod

have you heard any Metallica bootleg live tapes from the 80s, Lars can' t even keep time and most of his fills were out of synch. i' m sorry if somebody gets offended.

Not offended at all. I just beg to differ. Lars really was the cream of the crop of metal drummers back in the ' 80s. He just seemed to fall to the wayside as drummers got more technical, even in the metal category. Plus, he mellowed out when the Black album come along. As for the bootlegs you may have heard, take into consideration that Metallica was heavily into the alcoholica. Any ' boots' may not portray them at their best, but more of at their drunkest!

Well, Menza is an incredible drummer, but I didn' t mean to say that he belongs at the same level as Bruford and Collins for technical proficiency (though they all share jazz-styled elements). What I meant to imply, was that by being in the same " class" as those two, is that he has none. (i.e. they' re all self-serving pricks)

Honestly though, Menza is awesome. If you want a sampling of his best work, try Hangar 18, Polaris, Tornado of Souls, Vortex, Trust, FFF, Angry Again, Go To Hell, New World Order, Addicted to Chaos, Reckoning Day, Sweating Bullets, Foreclosure of a Dream, Captive Honour, Ashes in Your Mouth, Holy Wars, Lucretia, and Take No Prisoners.

But mostly Polaris (Rust in Peace). I have no idea how he pulled that shit off. There aren' t any overdubs on it, but Megadeth has never played it live. I guess they couldn' t figure out how to coordinate all the parts as a band, or something of that sort.

Nick can still rock, man. He is a little spacey, though.

Doctor X has hit the nail on the head.

I am more partial to Nick Menza simply cause he played on Rust In Peace - it was one of the albums that introduced me to metal drumming period.

Polaris is a song I have learned before now as a cover. What a magnificent song - addictive and fun to play.


Tim :-)

Nick Menza is 10 times the drummer Lars will ever be. The dude is easily one of the pioneers in thrash metal drumming, for many reasons. First of all, Rust In Peace is a drumming masterpiece, plain and simple. The fantastic thing about the drumming on this album is that this guy has an acquired taste for what truly sounds good. He knows when to be technical and when not to be, and in thrash metal, that is a very important quality to posess.

Lars only seems to have a few fills he ever uses, and when he does use them, whether it be live or on tape, he uses them in odd places, or in too many places. Listen to the song Disposable Heroes (which actually has some good drumming during the bridge.) During the verse of this song, listeners are pounding with fill after fill after fill. Now, in my mind the drumming isn' t bad, but it isn' t fantastic, and it is obvious that Lars could have taken a Valuum before recording and provided a nice steady back-beat when he needed too. Lars is also a wreck live. Not only are his fills totally out of sync (which someone pointed out,) but the guy speeds up like no other, and it makes one wonder, " Has this guy ever even said the word metronome?"

Recentely, Lars has definitely cleaned up his drumming act. The " Fade to Black" on VH1 was very well done, as was S and M. Lars is not terrible, but he is not Nick Menza, who I think is one of the most underrated drummers around.

I think Lars is better in a technical sense, but Nick is better at feeling and playing what fits the music.

I think once you get up to that level, it' s so hard to ask, " Who is better?" without also asking, " At what?"

ORIGINAL: British
I think once you get up to that level, it' s so hard to ask, " Who is better?" without also asking, " At what?"

I agree- good way to put it.

I think Lars is better in a technical sense

WHA-WHA-WHAT! C' mon guys Lars was never a great drummer. He was in Metallica before he even learned how to play. Nick is a drummer of very high caliper. If I credit lars with anything its going to be some creativity, but even then he didnt really do anything that hadnt been done before (like Dave Lomabardo-the real king of 80s metal drumming).

Metallica as a whole of course did do something different. Metallica was all about the Hetfield riffs and the Hammett solo back in the day. Not the drums. Hell I was a drummer and LOVED Metallica but not really for the drums. I always thought they could be better. Megadeth has always been infinatley more talented than Metallica (maybe cus Dave Mustane had something to prove) but Metallica songs had something special.

Well Nick is a better drummer.

Lars is just Lars. Love him or hate him he' s in a band that knows how to make up for each others downfalls. I.E. Jaymz makes up for lars' s suck at his instrument, Lars makes up for Kirk' s lack of stage presence (Lars is the most entertaining live drummer, no one can tell me otherwise) and Kirk makes up for the lack of Wah in all other forms of music.

At the end of the day however, when you say nick menza no one will really know who he is, when you say Lars Ulrich someone will know his name. It' s all about being in the right place at the right time

ORIGINAL: Jeff Wyatt

WLars is the most entertaining live drummer, no one can tell me otherwise

Check out Morgan Rose from Sevendust [:' (]

i did, saw them open for metallica. He does have a great deal of energy an i think he is entertaining, but anyone can have an assload of energy for a half hour. I just think lars has a better stage presence

Im not much of a drummer myself, but I give my vote to Menza. There is something in his sound that kicks ass! Lars is a polemic drummer. I used to think he was the best drummer in the world when I was 15 but he has a lot more charisma than Nick when they play live (at least that is my impression since I saw them both playing)

Better...welll...Menza rocks, Lars is lazy. Anyways, it' s a fairly well known, though unsubstantiated rumor, that James did a lot of the drumming on the last few Metallica CD' s...

--dan

Lars cream of the crop in 80s what a load of hogwash. Haven' t you heard Anders Johansson, Tommy Aldrige etc. etc. the 80s had so many awesome metal drummers.

ORIGINAL: RobTheEnchanter

ORIGINAL: Jeff Wyatt

WLars is the most entertaining live drummer, no one can tell me otherwise

Check out Morgan Rose from Sevendust [:' (]

My vote goes to Portnoy for entertainment.

Lars got me into drumming. I haven' t heard much Megadeth, but I used to be a HUGE Metallica fan. Then I heard Neil Peart Then I heard Mike Portnoy Recently I' ve been hearing guys like Alex Arellano and Bobby Jarzombek

However, Lars is what started my love of drumming. I thought he was pretty good. But now.....I guess he' s ok.

Nick Menza rules so much more!

ORIGINAL: dano1427

Better...welll...Menza rocks, Lars is lazy. Anyways, it' s a fairly well known, though unsubstantiated rumor, that James did a lot of the drumming on the last few Metallica CD' s...

--dan

So it' s a well known rumor? Does that make it true or? It doesn' t really make alot of sense to me. Where' s your proof? An interview?

I might as well cast my vote since I' m the one who started all this I Will take Menza over Lars anyday. I just love his playing. He just gave alot of power in the band. And when he did do something different in the middle of a song,, it' s usually different from the fills/groove' s that he does in other songs. Unlike lars who does that one fill ALL the time. You drummers know what I' m talking about. The one where he does kind of a " portnoy bag of tricks" . Where he usually does 2 snare' s , and 2 kicks(right,left with the hands, then right,left with the feet) really fast to get the so called " fill" that he uses. I dont think I explained that right[:' (] But you drummers know what I' m getting at. And like someone else mentioned before. Nick knows/knew when not to do something technical,,,, and when to really tear it up. And thats something very important in any band. If I' m listning to Meshuggah(sp?), the last thing I want to hear is someone like portnoy(no offence here) back on the drums doing 6 bars of 7/8,, 3 bars of 5/4, and a little bit of 19/16.

ORIGINAL: Clayman

Man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man...

ORIGINAL: TamaDrummer2284

Nick Menza, have u seen his drum solo on Deth' s Live DVD?

Dude, that is Jimmy DeGrasso. And that solo is *BAD*. I' m not fond of drumsolos anyway, but this one is just too simple and " not going anywhere" .

top drummers of the 80s, lets say. charlie bennante, tommy lee, tommy aldridge, alex vanhalen, dave lombardo, robert sweet, eric carr(R.I.P.), those are some serious chops!!!!
lars, man, besides the double bass thing on ONE (wich he probably stole from somebody else, like he did with the name METALLICA)he has not show anything impressive at all.james hetfield has said it himself ,that lars SUCKS on the drum. his drum parts are cut into pieces in the studio and put together by randy staub.EDITING and MIXING man, as simple as that. no pun intended. we' re still friends right!!!!!!!

Wasn' t Vinnie Colaiuta around in the 80s? He' s arguably the best drummer in the world, and his chops outdo anything metal drummers could even hope to accomplish.


Btw, Kent, Meshuggah' s drummer is doing stuff much more complicated than anything Portnoy does. In fact, he' s playing in all sorts of odd times - you just don' t notice it I suppose.

nick by far....just compare them live........and about that degrasso solo....SH*TY!!!....and I was actually at the concert when they filmed the dvd......AND the show the night befroe so I had to stand through it twice!!....you can see me in the dvd throught the whoel concert but the best shots are whe I am walking behind the baricade after crowd surfering around the 51:45 mark in 1000 x goodbye.....and RIGHT when you go to credits and silent scron starts playing......so go check me out!!!!

yeah no contest; Menza' s lotsa better in my opinion. I didn' t like DeGrasso' s drum solo either but other than that he' s one hell of a drummer. I don' t care of his style that much though.

I have always disliked Lars.. His fills and beats aren' t creative by any means. Metallica' s songs were so good that they kinda made Lars' playing better too, if you know what I mean. Good band makes the players better.. or something

Menza does some killer job on RIP and very steady work on the other albums. I' ve always liked his style (not shredding all the time). Liked Menza much more than DeGrasso.

Han, well, i never said that he didn' t/couldn' t play things a complicated as portnoy, I just stated that if I' m listning to some " balls to the wall" metal, then I dont dont think that its nessesary to be playing alot of odd time signatures. Each drummer plays differently. Messugah' s drummer plays odd time sigs differently what portnoy, and he plays them differently than I would. I was just saying that I dont think that when a band is playing something heally heavy, then I wouldn' t want to hear a drum pattern like " erotomania" , or the middle part of " metropolis"