Growling vocals and great music

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Kamelion)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 19:18:59 GMT

ORIGINAL: Matika

ORIGINAL: Kamelion

It's all a matter of context. There are places that growling works and places that it shouldn't ever rear its spiky head. My band from the early 90s (pretentious little metal outfit called Creepmime) featured growling vocals almost exclusively. While it seemed to fit much of the music, as one of the band's lyricists, I found it very frustrating to hear carefully crafted texts being mangled into an incoherent mess on a regular basis. These days I really favour Opeth's approach - keep it in its proper place and make room for some kick-ass singing as well.

You still need to send me creepmime..........and I want the video of the headbanging *13/16 everyone stands still* headbanging part, man I don't think I've laughed harder that was sooo cool.....well exept for that one time with the irritating dude I left at the wrong bus stop.

LOL!! Fuck not with the Matikatron!!

And yeah, I'll send you some up-my-own-ass metal after I get back from Holland next week (going back for wedding in a couple of days...)

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Ultravioelnt)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:56:23 GMT

I generally like them. Of course, you get singers who can't pull it off.

For me, it was really an aquired taste. The first Opeth song I heard was Black Rose Immortal, and I only made it 3 seconds into it. I gave it a second chance later, and the same thing happened. The third time, I managed to make it through the opening verses, and into a clean part. From that point on, I could partially bear it, and I gradually fell in love. And that's my story

RE: Growling vocals and great music (starclassicmaple)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:34:18 GMT

ORIGINAL: drumline

I love growling, it just fits aggressive music like Superterrorizer said. Around a year ago I wasn't much into it, but when I was exposed to Opeth I began to appreciate it more.You can't have sick blast beats at 200+ bpm and brutal guitar playing, and then throw high pitched vox over the top. It just doesn't fit.

+1. And yes, I don't consider hevydevy growls ,just rage filled screams...

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Matika)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 18:22:04 GMT

ORIGINAL: Kamelion

It's all a matter of context. There are places that growling works and places that it shouldn't ever rear its spiky head. My band from the early 90s (pretentious little metal outfit called Creepmime) featured growling vocals almost exclusively. While it seemed to fit much of the music, as one of the band's lyricists, I found it very frustrating to hear carefully crafted texts being mangled into an incoherent mess on a regular basis. These days I really favour Opeth's approach - keep it in its proper place and make room for some kick-ass singing as well.

You still need to send me creepmime..........and I want the video of the headbanging *13/16 everyone stands still* headbanging part, man I don't think I've laughed harder that was sooo cool.....well exept for that one time with the irritating dude I left at the wrong bus stop.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (super_mole)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:40:12 GMT

Personally, I loathe any music that uses growling as their primary form of vocals. It sounds rediculous, and I think it gives metal music a bad name. Whenever I tell someone that I listen to heavy metal, they automatically assume that I'm an angst-filled guy who growls and writes overly depressing poetry in his spare time. Personally, I think it sounds rediculous, and in my opinion, it ruins music which has the potential to be excellent without the lame growling.

One big example of this for me is Opeth. I listened to one of their songs and thought, "Hey, this is damn good music, a little overly depressing, but still good." Then the chorus hit and it sounded like cookie monster on steroids.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (musicnerd)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:33:42 GMT

Wow...a 3 page post on growling. The only band I listen to that growls is Opeth. i first bought Damnation, and LOVED it. That I got BWP and hated it!!!! I just couldn't stand Mikael's aggressive vocals. Then someone let me listen to Deliverance and I really gave it a chance. Now I love both BWP and Deliverance. His vocals fit the music and his growls are almost tasteful and is annunciation (spelling) is incredible. You can understand what he says when he growls. And the stark contrast between his clean vox and growls is simply amazing. Anyway, there's my 2 cents. Looking forward to Ghost Reveries.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (ERT776463825)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:28:23 GMT

i respect singer who can growl and sing which is is why i like some of them

for example

opeth
slipknot
later pantera
testament
shadows fall
killswitch engage
in flames
etc...

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Kamelion)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 08:16:41 GMT

It's all a matter of context. There are places that growling works and places that it shouldn't ever rear its spiky head. My band from the early 90s (pretentious little metal outfit called Creepmime) featured growling vocals almost exclusively. While it seemed to fit much of the music, as one of the band's lyricists, I found it very frustrating to hear carefully crafted texts being mangled into an incoherent mess on a regular basis. These days I really favour Opeth's approach - keep it in its proper place and make room for some kick-ass singing as well.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Honma)

Tue, 12 Jul 2005 07:10:13 GMT

Necrophagist... these guys are insane!

I can handle "growling" for a short time. A few songs, then it gets kind of silly. Mixing it up is always a good thing to do. Same with the "screaming" bands. It's great as part of the vocals, but not THE vocals.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (xenowang)

Mon, 11 Jul 2005 20:22:08 GMT

Anybody who listens to The Leper Affinity and does not absolutely love that chaotic moment when Mikael finally breaks into the growls needs to get their head examined. (Z-RAYED!)

RE: Growling vocals and great music (mxrush76)

Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:53:33 GMT

Sometimes a love growling... like in Carcass, Napalm Death, but i prefer mix like Into Eternity, Opeth o Metalcore voices like KillSwitch Engage...

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Scratch)

Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:22:25 GMT

Fuck y'all. Now listening to Malevolent Creation's Manic Demise.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (ssaammaael)

Mon, 11 Jul 2005 19:08:02 GMT

I will say it again and again in every forum about this subject:

GROWLS KICK ASS

... just check Death, Into Eternity, Trivium, Opeth (Damnation is a great cd, but it's just half of Opeth), Bloodbath, Samael, etc, etc.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (karansaraf)

Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:12:17 GMT

Growling vocals and great music

Oxymoron if I ever saw one. As you can tell, I'm not a fan. Trivium is a good example, they have some great music, and some great clean vocals, but then the chorus starts and you get this growling crap.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (STRAT)

Sat, 09 Jul 2005 09:05:54 GMT

Funny thing is I just had this long conversation with a few guys my age (mid 40's) and a bunch of kids at the School Of Rock (15-17) . We touched on this exact subject and we came to some conclusions, but not an answer. It seems to be partially an age thing and how the youth feel about thier current state of affairs in this world. Me and the rest of the guys grew up on singers like Freddie Mercury, Robert Plant, Ozzy Osbourne, Jim Morrison, Rob Halford, Bruce Dickinson, Ronnie James Dio, Peter Gabriel, John Wetton, Greg Lake, Ian Gillan, Ray Gillen, Glenn Hughes....... These guys were all mostly influenced by a few main genres of music that came before them such as Blues, Opera, Jazz and Rock. Songs that had lyrics were called "Love Songs, "Aria's", "Torch Songs", "Scat". So most of us grew up having our emotions touched by lyrics that were conveyed by these influences. The reason we had this conversation is because we have about 40 kids right now in the school and there's only 3 kids that can actually carry a tune when singing classic rock tunes. There were more kids who came into the school and said "I'm a singer", but when asked to sing Baba O Reily, could not stay in tune, did not know how to change the key could not fluctuate their voice to accomodiate the changes in the melody that was being played, just had no understanding of what techniques are to be used to achieve the desired effect of singing a song as simple as Baba O Reily, but the kids that were singers in their own bands all come from these bands that just scream!

Just reiterating what has already been posted, hostility, agression, brutality, evil, harsh, rage, fear, pissed off.... are some of the words that have been used to discribe why growling vocals are accepted, because they convey these emotions. I think there are many people who feel this way which is why this is such a acceptable vocal "technique".

When it comes to growling, I just don't find any kind of influence. I totally understand that these type of vocals do in fact convey a emotion and may touch people who listen to this music in a very deep and emotional way, but I'm not there. It has nothing to do with how "deep" of an emotion state I need to be in. Beleive me I can get pretty dark & terrible as I have been over the past couple of days, with my 93 yr old grandmother who does not know who I am any more, who cannot walk, cannot speak english any more only Polish and of that most is just gibberish, has osteoperosis so bad that she can break a bone just by moving her, and 2 days ago she fell out of her wheelchair broke her femur in her right leg the ulna & tibia of her left leg a bone in her foot has a baseball sized lump on her forehead. I looked at her 2 days ago and said why?? Then the bombings in the UK, I was so angry, sad, pissed off, but I regress.

The importance of vocals to me, is that I need to understand what is being said in order for the lyrics to efffect me. Boy do I sound like our parents!! That's what my mother in-law says about the music I listen to, she would say "Now Nat King Cole can sing, how do you understand what these people are screaming about" Freddie, Daniel Gildenlow, Bobby Kimball, Peter Gabriel all have an individual ability to convey different emotions from sorrow, sadness, anger, rage to joy and blissfulness by changing their techiques. I just don't find growling to have any techique except to growl or scream. Iis there such a technique as a soft scream. Now you may think that I don't listen to this music so how can I pass judgement. These are some of the CD's I have in my collection.
Into Eternity - Dead Or Dreaming
Killswitch Engage -Alive or Just Breathing
Meshuggah - Contradictions Collapse & None
Sevendust - Animosity
Thyfing - Urkraft
Soilwork - Natural Born Chaos, Figure Number Five
Opetn - Deliverance, Blackwater Park, Damnation
Lamb Of God - Ashes of The Wake

Hey look at that, you could write a song on the titles of these cd alone!
Dead or Dreaming,
Alive or Just Breathing,
it's just Natural Born Chaos
Filled with Contradictions, Collapse & None
but I regress again!

I just don't find this type of vocal "technique" to move me, but there are some that I do like. The new Lamb Of God is kicking my ass. I don't know what it is, but I can understand what Randy Blythe is saying, Now You've Got Something to Die For! just floors me! In the end I respect that this is a current style and "technique", but one form of art that I don't find appealing. Most of the music that has Growling/Scream vocals just doesn't touch me in a emotional way like Halford singing Screaming For Vengence or Last Rose of Summer.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (LiesITellYouLies)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 23:49:41 GMT

Don't fit!

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Superterrorizer)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 23:08:36 GMT

ORIGINAL: Naigewron

ORIGINAL: mr.snruB
I could see growling if it was just a single line or something like that, but for your bands entire career? whats the point?

Erm, what's the point of basing your career on being a soprano singer? Or a high-pitched power metal vocalist? Growlers are as diverse as any other style of singer, it's just a matter of appreciating it or not. I can't stand opera, which is why it all sounds alike to me. Same goes for that nasal country music vocal style. I'm not saying I'm more or less open-minded than anyone else, and feel free to dislike growling all you want, I just wanted to point that out

And I agree. It also has a lot to do with the aggression and attitude of the music, I mean can you fucking imagine Opeth's music with Ratt's vocals? That being said, im much more of a growler than a screamer, sometimes I just cant stand stuff like Strapping Young Lad, I love the music but sometimes its too much of a really long scream, and well those emo/scream shit bands dont even have good music, so its best not to cover them at all.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Xaem)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 23:02:34 GMT

Growling vocals have their place. My progressive band uses them on a few songs. Check: Opeth, Ayreon

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Naigewron)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:59:56 GMT

ORIGINAL: mr.snruB
I could see growling if it was just a single line or something like that, but for your bands entire career? whats the point?

Erm, what's the point of basing your career on being a soprano singer? Or a high-pitched power metal vocalist? Growlers are as diverse as any other style of singer, it's just a matter of appreciating it or not. I can't stand opera, which is why it all sounds alike to me. Same goes for that nasal country music vocal style. I'm not saying I'm more or less open-minded than anyone else, and feel free to dislike growling all you want, I just wanted to point that out

RE: Growling vocals and great music (PaulEMoz)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:57:00 GMT

ORIGINAL: Liquid-Acid-Base

You hate them at first, then you just tolerate them, then you come around to them, then you love them.

Guess I'll be missing out on a lot of great music then, because I hate them. I hated them the first time I heard them, and I still hate them now. I won't tolerate them or come around to them, I cannot stand them at all. For those that do, great, more music for you to enjoy, but they're never, ever going to be even close to listenable to my ears.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Liquid Acid Base)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:53:22 GMT

You hate them at first, then you just tolerate them, then you come around to them, then you love them. Trust me, I was a fucking elitist prog snob years back, until I joined the dark side... Soon I was whisper screaming/growling along to death metal tunes while doing the dishes.

If you don't get used to harsh vocals, you'll be missing out on a tremendous amount of great music out there. You have to be able to level with some dark and terrible atmospheres and emotions in order to "get" it. Mostly rage and sadness. When I'm pissed off, I'm not gonna croon and whine about it -- fuck that, my friends. I will growl and scream.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (mr.snruB)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:42:19 GMT

I could see growling if it was just a single line or something like that, but for your bands entire career? whats the point?

Also, I'm just trying to get into Children of Bodom, but the vocals are sort of repelling me

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Naigewron)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:20:59 GMT

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

Growling and screaming equals fun. I can totally understand people not liking it though.

Personal favourites:
In Flames
Dimmu Borgir
Opeth
Devin Townsend / Strapping Young Lad
etc, etc

RE: Growling vocals and great music (cakegmorgan)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 22:06:18 GMT

I could never stand growling, but I bought Blackwater Park on a whim, knowing that there was a lot of growling in it, but I don't care anymore, I got used to it. It's a brilliant album. Now that I'm used to it, I've bought Meshuggah and Strapping Young Lad, I was missing out.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (ssaammaael)

Fri, 08 Jul 2005 19:48:55 GMT

Growling and Metal are best friends ... love it. And by the way ... i almost 30 years old.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (opethlord)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 20:18:11 GMT

I think it's just a different approach to singing. Maybe comparing growling to opera is gonna get me flamed, but I feel they're different approaches to singing. In both cases the singers don't really use their "real" voice. Some people like them and some people don't. The first time I heard growls I laughed. HARD. But I liked the music (I think it was Death or Morbid Angel). I then thought "well, I'm gonna listen to it, regardless of the vocals. It doesn't matter how childish or dumb I think they are, I don't feel like missing out on all that cool riffing." I actually came to like growling and then I noticed how some growling is really cool and some grwling is annoying, just like regular vocals. So, yeah, I like growls and I do feel they deserve to be listened as a different art form.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (SteveJohnson)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:36:49 GMT

Growling is fine used occasionally for dramatic affect, or contrast with a female voice. Used all the time as the standard "singing" voice? Not for me, thanks. If you like it, great. I don't. Actually, I find it rather amusing, in a Gaahl kind of way.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Demon of the Fall)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:12:25 GMT

Almost 30 and loving the growling, so it's not an age thing

RE: Growling vocals and great music (leeferdude)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:02:02 GMT

Well, the singer in my band screams, (There is a difference between screaming and growling) so I'm going to have to say that I dig music with growls and screams.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (el vampiro)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 19:01:40 GMT

I'm definitely one for the growling To some of you it's noise and detracts from the music. For me it serves to only enhance the music. Come on now, it's aim is to facilitate hostility, agression and brutality. However, I'll rarely listen to a group that has nothing but cookie-monster vocals. I prefer light & shade...clean vocals and evil vocals. Probably why I like Opeth and My Dying Bride so much.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Suludance)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 18:58:59 GMT

Love them clean, love the growls, love it all. Everything has it's place. There is plenty of room out there.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (energy4anger)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 18:54:37 GMT

I hope I never grow out of liking screaming. But we're talking growling here right?!?! I'm still pro growling. But it's gotta be a good growl man! Powerful, deep, ragefull and from the throat.... yeaaaaaaah!!! \m/

RE: Growling vocals and great music (PaulEMoz)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 18:47:08 GMT

I dunno if it's the age thing, or what. I'm 33, and I've been listening to hard rock/heavy metal since I was 9. I absolutely cannot stand any growling, whatsoever. Some of the music is amazing, but the second those vocals come in, it destroys it for me. I just can't tolerate it. I don't care whether it conveys anger, aggression, whatever. To my ears, it sounds like shit, and spoils what might otherwise be some great listening. And no, no matter how much I listen to it, it does not grow on me.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (ThXinc)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 17:35:16 GMT

It's not my thing at all. I prefer 'singing' over primoridial grunting as an art form, HOWEVER, there are groups out there that use it tastefully and creatively within their music. See Soilwork and Opeth. These bands use it for more of an effect and add variety to the presentation. Bands that exclusively use this vocal style are so far on the out-list I don't even recognize them as music.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Heitor)

Wed, 06 Jul 2005 17:23:29 GMT

holy thread ressurrection, batman! but here we go...

i've been listening to "damnation" for a long time now and i love it! but, i downloaded a "normal" song from them just to experiment... i got "the leper affinity"... instrumental = OMG, it's brilliant!, vocals = didn't like it... at all! what can i do? i have these guys that make great music but the singer just insists to growl somewhere in the song!

anyway, i want to like opeth, but it's hard with these vocals...

RE: Growling vocals and great music (bill1971)

Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:12:59 GMT

Thanks Bill.
Discussions like this certainly aren't a means to an end, but its the discussion itself that I enjoy, and I think help us understand eachother better.

Cheers

Yes, I agree. Good discussion.

Cheers

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Katz)

Wed, 16 Mar 2005 22:02:31 GMT

ORIGINAL: bill1971

I see your point Katz, but I can't help you figure it out, because I honestly have no idea I think because it's art it's a matter of taste. I know you think that may be a "cop out" but it's true. I have no idea why I love Geddy's voice but don't like Shadow's Fall's singer or I love Labrie's but not Opeth's singer. I think if I heard it and instantly said "NO way this sucks" I would agree with your point more, but I honestly tried to listen to it, but it never clicked. That's the beauty of music, there is something for everybody.

Thanks Bill.
Discussions like this certainly aren't a means to an end, but its the discussion itself that I enjoy, and I think help us understand eachother better.

Cheers

RE: Growling vocals and great music (fusbolfan)

Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:54:58 GMT

I just have two things to say:

MY FEAR COMPELS ME! MY FEAR COMPELS ME!!!!

and...

AHHHHHHHHHHHHH MARAAAAAUUUUUDEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!

That is all.

RE: Growling vocals and great music (Superterrorizer)

Wed, 16 Mar 2005 21:54:03 GMT

Hansi, a growler? Perhaps im buying the wrong Blind Guardian cd's... Perhaps on the new Demons & Wizards album he will growl, oh well.